That big HC is back on the bay

[DfCas]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Serotta-Hors-Categorie-C5TI-Titanium-Road-Bike_W0QQitemZ7206852879QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Unless theres another one without tires...

dan

[rphetteplace]

ha ha that's so funny guess he should have taken my low-ball offer.

[SoCalSteve]

bought the bike....

But, you click on the buyers history page and shows that they reside in the US.

Something aint right with this auction!

Also, the standover height is way short for a 64 cm frame....also, the headtube is stated as 25.4 cm...Huge!

Oh, gotta love the weight given: Maybe 10 pounds....LOL

Good luck...Thats one HUGE frameset.

Steve

[Ken Robb]

the part I like best: he shows pictures of a carbon AND an alloy rear derailer.
OOPS--it is the back side of the same derailer.

[shaq-d]

the part I like best: he shows pictures of a carbon AND an alloy rear derailer.

i think the other pic is just the other part of the carbon derailleur..

sd

[mark]

This is a stolen bike! Check out the serial numbers. E-BAY IS A FENCE! BUYER BEWARE.

[dave thompson]

This is a stolen bike! Check out the serial numbers. E-BAY IS A FENCE! BUYER BEWARE.
Serial number CHC64092 says that it's a custom Hors Categorie (CHC), 64CM size (64), number 92 (092). What's the big deal?

I just bought an eBay item from this guy and I'm quite satisfied. If it was my size and I wanted another HC, I'd bid on it unhesitatingly.

[SoCalSteve]

Check out the person selling it. Powerseller with a gazillion positive feedbacks!

The only comment is that they havent a clue how to market a high end bike.

Even so, it will bring big $$$.

Steve

PS: If it were stolen, they would NOT post serial numbers.

[mark]

If someone asks the seller how this bike found itself on e-bay they might hear an interesting tale. I would like to hear it myself.
This is a custom bike, made for someone in particular. Again, just how did the seller end up with it? No reputable dealer would have touched it.
Like I said, this bike is hot (as in stolen merchandise not as in flashy).
And how would I know this? Take a guess.
BUYER BEWARE!

[dave thompson]

If someone asks the seller how this bike found itself on e-bay they might hear an interesting tale. I would like to hear it myself.
This is a custom bike, made for someone in particular. Again, just how did the seller end up with it? No reputable dealer would have touched it.
Like I said, this bike is hot (as in stolen merchandise not as in flashy).
And how would I know this? Take a guess.
BUYER BEWARE!
Mark: Most Serottas are custom to one degree or another, so if a Serotta is on eBay, the chances are it has at least some custom feature to it.

If you have some concrete evidence that this is a stolen bike, I for one would like to hear it, please post more. Innuendo isn't a good thing.

[SoCalSteve]

and should not be trash talked!

I own lots and lots of their stock and am an avid user as both a buyer and a seller.

If you have CONCRETE evidence that this bike is stolen, by all means tell us. I will contact the police and FBI myself as well as the seller.

Steve

PS: The seller is a Powersller on ebay and has a stellar record of selling. I am sure they would not risk their reputation by selling stolen property.

[Kevin]

It is worth noting that Mark has only 2 posts in the last 16 months and that they are both bashing the sale of this bike. Just makes we wonder what this is all about.

Kevin

[Big Dan]

Maybe he wants to get it cheap.... :cool:

[scrooge]

That this is one of those places that sells things for other people who aren't so comfortable on the computer? That wouldn't explain why its up again, but would explain the complete lack of bike knowledge.

[dave thompson]

It is worth noting that Mark has only 2 posts in the last 16 months and that they are both bashing the sale of this bike. Just makes we wonder what this is all about.

Kevin
Mark e-mailed me and explained what he was alluding to.

[Kevin]

Dave,

Mark e-mailed me as well. He claims that the HC for sale was his bike and that he had reported it stolen. He also claims that he was already paid for the bike by his insurance company. Perhaps he should notify e-bay about his claim. I am guessing that he is also obligated to notify his insurance company that the bike has been located, so that the insurance company can take appropriate action.

Kevin

[scrooge]

Dave,

Mark e-mailed me as well. He claims that the HC for sale was his bike and that he had reported it stolen. He also claims that he was already paid for the bike by his insurance company. Perhaps he should notify e-bay about his claim. I am guessing that he is also obligated to notify his insurance company that the bike has been located, so that the insurance company can take appropriate action.

Kevin

So maybe he could fill us in on the measurements so we could be more informed bidders? :D


Relax, that was (a lame attempt at) a joke

[alancw3]

it would seem to me that if he wanted the bike back it would be a simple case of notifiing the insurance company and the police/fbi. why hasn't he done this? this whole thing seems fishy to me.

[shaq-d]

it would seem to me that if he wanted the bike back it would be a simple case of notifiing the insurance company and the police/fbi. why hasn't he done this? this whole thing seems fishy to me.

if what has been posted has been true so far, then i believe mark should chill out a bit. he's been paid by the insurance company for a bicycle that is easily replaceable. the bike has changed hands several times since then, and filing a police report/fbi etc. will only do harm to the likely innocent people that currently own it and are trying to sell it. since the insurance co. has paid him off, i'd say this is a wash, and let bygones be bygones.

and heck. it's xmas.

sd

[Ginger]

OoooK....Just because an insurance company paid the guy off that makes it right? Sometimes the rationalization I see on this forum is painful.
Christmas or no, just because the bike has passed through several hands does not mean that it isn't stolen property and should not be returned to its rightful owner. Insurance payoff or no. Stolen goods are stolen goods. (And an HC isn't easily replaceable...)


Now if Mark is happy with his insurance settlement and doesn't want his custom bike back and doesn't want to alert the police (who he probably had to contact to get a police report on the stolen bike to get his insurance settlement...) then fine, you're right, he shouldn't bother saying anything about it here.

[DfCas]

OoooK....Just because an insurance company paid the guy off that makes it right? Sometimes the rationalization I see on this forum is painful.
Christmas or no, just because the bike has passed through several hands does not mean that it isn't stolen property and should not be returned to its rightful owner. Insurance payoff or no. Stolen goods are stolen goods. (And an HC isn't easily replaceable...)


Now if Mark is happy with his insurance settlement and doesn't want his custom bike back and doesn't want to alert the police (who he probably had to contact to get a police report on the stolen bike to get his insurance settlement...) then fine, you're right, he shouldn't bother saying anything about it here.

Except she said it much better than I could.If the insurance company paid for that bike then they are the rightful owner,and should be notified.Insurance companies get their money from us,and I have no interest in paying higher rates.

I suspect that seller is a pawn shop or a service that sells on ebay for a %.If I saw a bike that was stolen from me on Ebay,I'd be seething too.

I really dislike what ebay has become.

dan

[SoCalSteve]

How can you "dislike what ebay has become"????

That makes absolutely NO SENSE!!!

This is a seller who takes in property from others and takes a commission. They are NOT a pawn broker nor an expert on any one subject. They are simply offering a service. These people havent a clue about high end bikes. You can see that from their descriptions.

And, do we TRULY know that this is a stolen bike? Did Mark have serial numbers to match up with the serial numbers posted in the auction text? Why would the people selling this bike give out the serial number if they had any inkling that it was stolen. Mark was not 100% sure that it was his bike. He sent me an email stating this.

The one and pretty much only way that the police recover stolen property is with serial numbers.

ebay is as it has always been. A very large forum for people to buy and sell new and used items.

ebay is an amazing place with 10's of thousands (maybe million's) of honest people buying and selling every day.Saying that you do not like what it has become is simply ludicrous.

Ok, onto the insurance aspect...just because Mark has been paid out for his claim does not give him the right to wash his hands of this. If it is truly his bike, he needs to take action and if it is truly his stolen bike then it is the property of the insurance company's. They deserve to have it back.

OK, Holidays or not....if the bike is truly Marks and was truly stolen, then something needs to be done about it. I wrote Mark back saying that I would help him out in any way that I could. I never heard back from him.

Happy Holidays!

Steve

[mark]

I was shocked to see the bike on e-bay and simply posted my reaction. I will follow up. I don't know what the insurance compnay will want to do.
I did not think that readers on this site would want to but a hot bike. I know that I would not want to participate in this auction.
more then enough said...

[DfCas]

In my experience,it has changed from people who are hobbyist's cleaning out their closet and trying different things in their field of interest,to a professional flea market for people trying to make a living.

I'm pretty negative right now,because I've had 3 unpleasant buying experences in the last 6 months from "power sellers". I asked if the photo was of the actual item for sale,answer was yes,when it arrived it was not.Slow shipping (were busy),item never shipped. On a seperate note,I had a non paying bidder on a tandem.

I've decided that I won't consider a mass seller anymore,nor people that run a bedroom business on ebay.If they don't know the product and answer quickly,accurately,and honestly,I'm out.

The problem for me is that an increasing amount of the listings on ebay are these type of sellers,making it harder to seperate the good sellers from the bad.

The reason I said it looks like a pawn shop was the variety of items they sell-musical instruments,sporting goods,stereo,cameras,etc.Just like what I see when I go into a pawn shop looking for obscure lenses.

Anybody here in Lakewood Co. to answer this?

dan

[alancw3]

mark, if this is indeed your bike i don't understand why you didn't notify the insurance company over a week ago? this current auction is a relisting. the bike was listed for a week in the original auction. as far as serial numbers go you must have had to provide the insurance company a serial number to have your claim settled. this auction is scheduled to end at about 12pm pst tomorrow, which may be a holiday for many people.

[mark]

I had no idea about any of this until I happened on the site yesterday. I am out of town. I don't travel with serial numbers of my bikes at the ready. The bike was taken from my garage several months ago. A witness described the theif as a "down and outer". How it got to e-bay is both a mystery and a revelation about that particular market place. I would bet that someone knows the whole story but it is not me.
And by the way it is a holiday weekend. Best to all you concerned folks.

[gary135r]

OoooK....Just because an insurance company paid the guy off that makes it right? Sometimes the rationalization I see on this forum is painful.
Christmas or no, just because the bike has passed through several hands does not mean that it isn't stolen property and should not be returned to its rightful owner. Insurance payoff or no. Stolen goods are stolen goods. (And an HC isn't easily replaceable...)


Now if Mark is happy with his insurance settlement and doesn't want his custom bike back and doesn't want to alert the police (who he probably had to contact to get a police report on the stolen bike to get his insurance settlement...) then fine, you're right, he shouldn't bother saying anything about it here.
True

[Ginger]

Mark,
Thanks for chiming in. People speculate so much on the whys and wherefores of this type of thing. Safe travels and peace to your family during this fine holiday season!
Mary Ann

[Kevin]

I had no idea about any of this until I happened on the site yesterday. I am out of town. I don't travel with serial numbers of my bikes at the ready. The bike was taken from my garage several months ago. A witness described the theif as a "down and outer". How it got to e-bay is both a mystery and a revelation about that particular market place. I would bet that someone knows the whole story but it is not me.
And by the way it is a holiday weekend. Best to all you concerned folks.

Even without the serial numbers I am sure that E-Bay would put a temporary hold on the sale pending your return to home and you providing the serial number. If you can prove that you are the "owner" upon your return home I am sure that e-bay would put a permanent hold on the sale and notify the authorities.

Kevin

[alancw3]

mark: imho tomorrow morning first thing you should (1) contact ebay immediately and do whatever you can to put a hold on this auction. (2) contact your insurance agent, get the serial number from the claim form they have on file and inform the agent about the auction (being an agent of the insurance company in effect you have then notified the company). (3) i would call the seller and advise them of the situation. if they are legit they will pull the item until the matter is settled. bear in mind they probably have no idea of the problem. they are in mountain standard time and advertise that they are open everyday 9-5 except major holidays.

if you are successful in putting a hold on the auction and assuming you want this beautiful bike back i am sure the insurance company will work with you. good luck!

have asave and merry holiday.

[Elefantino]

Mark:

If by some chance the bike were to be returned to you, and you didn't want it...

Can Serotta take 2 cm out of a frame and not affect its integrity? Maybe using S&S? I know someone who would love one in 62.

:rolleyes:

[shaq-d]

OoooK....Just because an insurance company paid the guy off that makes it right? Sometimes the rationalization I see on this forum is painful.
Christmas or no, just because the bike has passed through several hands does not mean that it isn't stolen property and should not be returned to its rightful owner. Insurance payoff or no. Stolen goods are stolen goods. (And an HC isn't easily replaceable...)


Now if Mark is happy with his insurance settlement and doesn't want his custom bike back and doesn't want to alert the police (who he probably had to contact to get a police report on the stolen bike to get his insurance settlement...) then fine, you're right, he shouldn't bother saying anything about it here.

as you've seen, he has not contacted police; even if he did by the time it got around it'll disappear to the nether-lands of america. as for what i was "rationalizing", i prefer changing my mindset to adopt to reality. we can all wish and hope for things to happen for all the goody goodness and justice of the world and for the proper procedures to take place and the bike to be returned. but reality is it won't be, insurance will care of it, whoever's gonna buy that bike will buy that bike and use it. given that reality, i recommended a mindset.

sd

[shaq-d]

OK, Holidays or not....if the bike is truly Marks and was truly stolen, then something needs to be done about it. I wrote Mark back saying that I would help him out in any way that I could. I never heard back from him.


yes! fight for the Man!

i really wonder why it's so obvious what is "right" is right...

sd

[shaq-d]

I was shocked to see the bike on e-bay and simply posted my reaction. I will follow up. I don't know what the insurance compnay will want to do.
I did not think that readers on this site would want to but a hot bike. I know that I would not want to participate in this auction.
more then enough said...

an allegedly hot bike.

sd

[Ahneida Ride]

The insurance company cannot create money, outa thin air, like banks.
The cost of fraud/theft is higher insurance premiums.
That is, we ALL pay for it.

We should strive for a higher vision of society, not just learn to accept a
deteriorating reality.

Thanks Ginger ! :D

[alancw3]

i informed the seller that there maybe a question as to clear title to the bike. then asked if seller was prepared to guarantee clean title to the bike. we will see if they respond before end of auction 12pm pst. i guess at this point if i don't get a satisfactory reponse then i don't bid. hopefully the auction will be pulled until this matter can be resolved.

[shaq-d]

i informed the seller that there maybe a question as to clear title to the bike. then asked if seller was prepared to guarantee clean title to the bike. we will see if they respond before end of auction 12pm pst. i guess at this point if i don't get a satisfactory reponse then i don't bid. hopefully the auction will be pulled until this matter can be resolved.

only one thing would motivate that person to go through the work involved with cancelling the bids/his auction for the bike... the possibility that he might be selling a stolen bike, and the corresponding "ethical" inclination, if any, that would follow. i'd say this possibility is extremely low, given that (a) it's just a possibility and (b) there's a lot of work/crapola involved with canceling auctions and (c) there's money to made if he doesn't do this. i give it 99.99% possibility it'll be sold, paid, delivered. and then forgotten about.

any one want to take this up for a poll? if i'm wrong my faith in humanity may be restored.

sd

[Kevin]

i informed the seller that there maybe a question as to clear title to the bike. then asked if seller was prepared to guarantee clean title to the bike. we will see if they respond before end of auction 12pm pst. i guess at this point if i don't get a satisfactory reponse then i don't bid. hopefully the auction will be pulled until this matter can be resolved.

Why didn't Mark do this?

Kevin

[Hotdealstoday]

Hello all thanks for all the nice things you are saying about the bike I’m selling on EBay, Just to let you all know this bike has been cleared thru the local Police Department for me to sell it, by it's serial number. all items that i sell on eBay have to have there serial number's checked by the local PD before posting, I'm not a fly by night seller I fallow all the rules by eBay and the police department. :)

[Hotdealstoday]

Hello again friends to one of the post, I don’t know a lot about road bikes any help would be greatly appreciated, I did try my best on the listing on ebay. If you need to contact me on this bike please fell free to call my office at 303-650-4832 after 9:00 am MST :)

[Hotdealstoday]

You all we very talkative before I stop in what happen ??? :)

[dave thompson]

I think you explained what was happening very well. Thanks.

[Hotdealstoday]

Thank you Dave Thompson :beer:

[dave thompson]

Disclaimer: I bought a non-cantact laser thermometer from HotDealsToday on EBay the other day, so I'm a customer of his.

[Ginger]

Hotdeals, It isn't anything you said, that happens around here when speculation ends. Besides, everyone is enjoying the evening, we're way past prime post time here on the forum. :)

[SoCalSteve]

and sent them the link to this thread...

And, this is their response.

To all a good night,

Steve

[mark]

The serial number on the bike that I purchased from Wheatridge, the bike that was reported stolen to the Denver Police and my insurance carrier, is the same serial number posted on the e-bay auction site. And this was not just phoned in, I had a police cruiser on site.

For the record this was my bike. How it got to the seller still remains to be seen.

I have notified the seller.

[Hotdealstoday]

The serial number on the bike that I purchased from Wheatridge, the bike that was reported stolen to the Denver Police and my insurance carrier, is the same serial number posted on the e-bay auction site. And this was not just phoned in, I had a police cruiser on site.

For the record this was my bike. How it got to the seller still remains to be seen.

I have notified the seller.

Well this is a nice timing to get this info Mark, thru eBay rules I can't even end this auction under 12 hr. I will contact Lakewood PD, And My friend Detective Lien with the Denver PD in the morning. Call me at 303-650-4832

[alancw3]

Well this is a nice timing to get this info Mark, thru eBay rules I can't even end this auction under 12 hr. I will contact Lakewood PD, And My friend Detective Lien with the Denver PD in the morning. Call me at 303-650-4832

i would think that a question of legality would certainly override any auction rules that ebay has. also i think ebay itself would have exceptions to the rules when things like this come up.

hopefully this matter can be resolved to all parties satisfaction. one more thing. in all fairness to the seller, it would appear that they took adequate precautions and safeguards. also for mark's sake i hope a police report was filed with the serial number by the officers who drove over in the cruiser. good luck to all!

[Kevin]

Does anyone else notice that we have two non-forumites fighting over the Hors? Is anyone else wondering if Mark was involved in the initial auction that went bad and resulted in the re-listing of the bike?

Kevin

[shaq-d]

most speculative thread eva
sd

[Johny]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/announcement.php?f=3

Respect toward fellow members is expected. You agree not to harass, flame, insult, taunt, or otherwise disrespect any member of this forum. In other words, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

[dirtdigger88]

Im thinking about buying the d@mn bike just to kill this thread

Jason

[Kevin]

Im thinking about buying the d@mn bike just to kill this thread

Jason

I was just thinking the same thing.

Kevin

[dirtdigger88]

I was just thinking the same thing.

Kevin

but its not your size- its not mine either but I COULD ride it

any 61 (62)x 60 Hors out there needing a good home

Jason

[SoCalSteve]

Hors Cat...

But, it already has a good home.

Steve

PS: Jason, that bike is HUGE, I dont think you'd be happy riding it. If the measurements are correct, it has a 25.4 cm headtube. Mine has a 21. Big difference in bike size!

[Ahneida Ride]

If the claim has been paid, I believe the bike now belongs to the insurance company.

I don't understand the animosity in the thread. All of us should wish that
stolen bikes are returned.

[scrooge]

but its not your size- its not mine either but I COULD ride it

any 61 (62)x 60 Hors out there needing a good home

Jason

You could buy it and give it to me...it would fit almost perfect.

[ti_boi]

You all we very talkative before I stop in what happen ??? :)


Two thoughts come to mind....you do offer 'hot' deals, so your firm is aptly named....the only thing I know about road bikes is that whoever rode that one is one BIG DUDE.....true story. And yes, I jest because I love.... :D

[shaq-d]

Two thoughts come to mind....you do offer 'hot' deals, so your firm is aptly named....

from the scanty evidence we have here, that really can't be said with any certainty. all we have is the internet talk of someone who claims to be someone who claims to have had things done...etc., etc., etc. all of this is in the world of the alleged and mere speculation... (and this does NOT apply to all internet forums... in this specific case in this specific thread, the parties involved do not have the kind of "backing" that others would, i.e. confirmation by somebody who actually knows somebody who actually knows somebody)

sd

[Kevin]

Did anyone else notice that the Hors sold for $3,550? The same exact price as last time. The winning bidder has purchased a total of 48 items on e-bay, 23 from the seller of the Hors. This saga just keeps getting stranger and stranger. Where is Dadu when you need him?

Kevin

[William]

This saga just keeps getting stranger and stranger. Where is Dadu when you need him?

Kevin

http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/food/colonel_sanders.gif

:no: Dear sir, are you sure you really want to open that can of whole white meat chicken packed in water again. :confused:

The Colonel

[alancw3]

Did anyone else notice that the Hors sold for $3,550? The same exact price as last time. The winning bidder has purchased a total of 48 items on e-bay, 23 from the seller of the Hors. This saga just keeps getting stranger and stranger. Where is Dadu when you need him?

Kevin

i noticed that also. it may even be the same buyer as last time. weird!!!!!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . This is all very entertaining. But it DOES see mto me there is waaaay too much speculation and assumption in this thread. When it comes right down to it, eBay is probably more reliable as far as identity of members than this forum is, considering how little info is required to establish an identity here.

The only lasting thought I've had out of all this is that if someone had stolen MY bike and I had already gotten a settlement AND ordered and paid for a new bike, then I might be reluctant to report it if I saw the bike on eBay. I'd be afraid the insurance company might recover the bike, then tell me "We've found your bike. We're going to give it back to you. Now send us our $7,000 back."--which, of course, I don't have because I've already bought another bike.

And another thought . . . I don't necessarily assume a "Power Seller" with lots of feedback is who they say they are. I have heard of documented instances of identities being stolen on eBay.

BBDave

[jerk]

http://www.themediadrome.com/Images/food/colonel_sanders.gif

:no: Dear sir, are you sure you really want to open that can of whole white meat chicken packed in water again. :confused:

The Colonel


what does brian bayliss have to do with this? that thing may be ugly but it isn't that ugly.

jerk

[Ginger]

I dunno...if a regular HC looks like a bug, that thing looks like a mutant cockroach...

I was thinking though...that bike has enough spare tubing that they could cut it down to my size without much difficulty and make a HC and a standard legend for me from the same bike...plenty of room to correct for error...maybe I should have bid on it, sent it back to Serotta, had it chopped. Maybe they'd change the serial number while they were at it so I wouldn't have to worry about allegedly stolen goods... :banana:

[Ken Robb]

I think that once an insured reaches an agreement/settlement with an insurance company he gets the $$ and signs over title to the damaged/missing property for disposal/sale if and when recovered.

Unless there was fraud on the part of the insured the company can't get the $$ back.

[gdw]

So if Ken's right and the insurer is now the owner of the bike and gains possession of it........maybe they will sell it on Ebay again. This has the potential to become a very long thread. :banana:

[DfCas]

I don't understand why some have been so rude to someone who claims to have had a bike stolen,and why others jumped in the middle of what may be a criminal matter.

The only party that knows what is going on now is hotdealstoday,who now seems to be silent on the situation.

dan

[ti_boi]

I just found a picture of the powerseller! He seems OK....right?

[mark]

It has been a strange experience. I got ripped off but on this board one would think that I did something wrong. For the record, everything that I have posted has been accurate and straight.
Here is how it ends up. The bike was sold to a pawn shop for $300.00. The pawn shop is somehow related to "hotdeals", the e-bay seller. They (the pawn/power seller) state that bthey checked with local police and then held the property for 30 days as required. I don't know why the cops did not flag this item as there is a case number and open file.
I notified the seller that I had a match of the serial nimber. The seller high bid for this item because e-bay policy does not allow a seller to withdraw an item when the auction is ending. The seller has the bike and is cooperating.
I notified my insurance carrier today. They told me to contact the police and have them recover the bike and persue the investigation. I called the cops.
I have already settled with the insurance company. They will get the hot bike. I may have a chance to reaquire it but I am not sure how or at what price. The insurance carrier will attempt to mitigate their loss.
Nobpdy was surprised thqat the bike appeared on e-bay. Regardless of anyones opinion of e-bay or it's stock price they are a major outlet for this sort of thing.
As for the underlying ethical issues, it seems to me that onw should follow the rules and proceedures without trying to find an angle. I pay good money to my carrier (CHUBB). They treated me very well when i reported the loss. I did not feel comfortable allowing the auction to continue.
A final note. I am 6'2" and weigh 185. Ron Kiefel created this geometry for me and my thoracic spine. I also have a steel Serotta, with couplers, withnthe same design. It fits like a glove. And they are building me an Ottrott ST that I hope never appears in a stolen bike message board.

[SoCalSteve]

Please tell me how you know that ebay is: "a major outlet for this sort of thing"?

Do you have proof other than this one sale? I'd really like to see hard evidence showing where other things that have been stolen have ended up on ebay. Do you have proof of this?

BTW, good job following through with this. I hope you get it back as a Hors Cat is an amazing bike (I'm sure you know this). I rode mine today and was amazed at how wonderful it rides and how incredibley it handles.

Good luck to you and Happy New Years!

Steve

[Kevin]

... They (the pawn/power seller) state that bthey checked with local police and then held the property for 30 days as required. ... I notified the seller that I had a match of the serial nimber. ... The seller has the bike and is cooperating.

Mark,

I am glad to hear that the seller and e-bay were so cooperative.

Kevin

[Hotdealstoday]

:) Hello all again Yes Mark calls me the other day and told me the story behide the bike how it was stolen from him few months back. And yes the store bought the bike for $300.00 from a customer, and they brought the bike to me to list it on the Bay, we did not know that the was stolen, tell I got an email from one of the members on this board, Nice work and thanks for the heads up on the bike.

Just wish that the PD was more up on there stolen Items, I like to say one more thing to you all. I have been selling on the Bay for 7 years now this is the second item from us to show up being stolen in all the time I have listing on the bay.

That should tell you all something about the Bay, I work closely with some of the police department here in this town and I will say this much they do look on Ebay for stolen Item daily.

To all a good night, and I wish you all a very safe and Happy New Years :beer:

P.S. By the way my Father was the High Bidder on the Last Auction with the bid of $20,000 as his High Bid. HeHe

[ti_boi]

Please tell me how you know that ebay is: "a major outlet for this sort of thing"?

Do you have proof other than this one sale? I'd really like to see hard evidence showing where other things that have been stolen have ended up on ebay. Do you have proof of this?

BTW, good job following through with this. I hope you get it back as a Hors Cat is an amazing bike (I'm sure you know this). I rode mine today and was amazed at how wonderful it rides and how incredibley it handles.

Good luck to you and Happy New Years!

Steve


The big story last year was the bike shop employees from Colorado that were emptying out their bosses store and selling the items on eBay. They made over $300k doing that and finally wound up getting caught.

Sorry, no link for that one....I have used eBay since 98 -- have over 400 positives and no negs (yet). Yes, you find unsavory types on eBay and you learn to either walk away....or run! I had a guy who wanted to sell me an Aeron chair. He was a 'retailer'...do you have a store front? Well...no but I'll meet you on the corner of x and y in Brooklyn...no thanks! True Story.


You find instruments with the serial numbers ground off, you see people with hundred of negatives and perhaps hundreds of positives too, but geez. They are obviously making people unhappy and still are allowed to trade on eBay.


Buying stock in a firm has nothing to do with integrity, it is a money making endeavor. Shouting foul when someone makes statements critical of firms that you invest in? Pick up some Wal*Mart stock, I'll still say they exploit their workers.....caveat emptor. eBay is probably one of the best stocks and business plans to come from the bubble of the internet glory days....enjoy your profits and your Serotta.....

[Jeff N.]

Proof or no proof, when you consider all the zillions of items bought and sold on E-Bay, many/most of which cannot be traced (or proven stolen), there is no doubt in my mind that at least SOME of those items glow in the dark. Jeff N.

[xcandrew]

Here is an article about the Colorado Springs case that some have referred to:

http://gazette.com/display.php?id=1312006&secid=2

I agree with both views... ebay is a great place to buy and sell, but there are a lot of scams, and there are obviously stolen goods being sold too. Just be aware of the possible hazards and use your judgment.

[alancw3]

i would like the movie rights to this saga! wow! seriously, congradulations mark. you took a lot of heat from some on this thread and i respect you for your diligences throughout this holiday w/e. you certainly must have gained some personal satisfaction. it's because of people like you that the system does sometimes work. hopefully you will have an opportunity to get the bike back! also have to say that it looks like hotsdeals is a standup entity for there actions.

thanks again mark!!!!! enough said!

ps. there was one negative response on this thread that thought mark was fighting a loosing battle. well i hope he has gained a little hope for humanity!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . the literally millions of items listed and sold on eBay every week, it is inevitable that at least SOME of them will have been stolen. To criticize eBay for failing to totally prevent this is unfair, IMHO. It simply goes with their territory and they can try to prevent it, but will never be 100% successful.

The same goes with general criticism of eBay. You will ALWAYS be able to find someone who had a negative experience on eBay. From covering the news myself for over 20 years, I’ve found that the dissatisfied people are ALWAYS more willing to complain publicly than the satisfied ones. That’s how many news stories originate. Again, criticizing eBay for failing to ban people who do have higher negative feedbacks is unfair. They are the owners of the flea market building, but are just as vulnerable to being conned by a misrepresentative “booth owner” as a real life proprietor.

Stepping back a ways and trying to look at it objectively, I’m amazed and heartened that eBay works as well as it does. Their feedback system is well thought out and, for the most part, fair. As in real life, an informed and alert customer who avails themselves of the protections available (PayPal buyer protection, e-mailing or calling sellers, using the protections available with your credit card) will rarely have a problem. The devil-may-care or naive customer who goes in unawares and expects to take advantage of some rube seller by getting a “deal” is more likely to get burned--and to complain about it.

Don’t get me wrong. It’s a good thing to publicize bad buying experiences and bad sellers. But you MUST keep in mind that for every transaction gone bad, there may be tens or even hundreds of thousands of good transactions we never hear about. I’m sure eBay has some research with numbers available. Perhaps they might even share it with us . . . a few minutes on Google might be productive.

BBDave

[gdw]

I have had good luck in my dealings on Ebay but am aware of its shortcomings. Here's an article that appeared in the local paper, Boulder CO Daily Camera, last week which some of you might find interesting.

Police: Bicycle bandit busted Man accused of being Boulder's most prolific bike thief in jail

By Christine Reid, Camera Staff Writer
December 21, 2005

John Piazza stopped at the Penny Lane coffee shop for just a couple of minutes last summer when, he said, his "happiness" was stolen. Piazza’s silver-and-orange Specialized Enduro-Pro mountain bike, locked to a rack on the back of his car, had been swiped in broad daylight from a busy downtown Boulder parking lot.





He was the victim, police said, of a man accused of being Boulder’s most prolific bike thief, now in jail thanks to an eBay search.

Terrance Michael Farrell, 33, is accused of selling 40 high-end bikes worth a total of more than $70,000 between November 2004 and June 2005 to eBay entrepreneur Stephen Ellison, who in turn sold them to the highest bidder on the auction Web site.

Piazza got a call from police in the fall, notifying him that they had found his $3,000 prized possession in Ellison’s Thornton garage.

"I felt like a little kid," Piazza said. "I was so happy."

Farrell, who is being held at the Boulder County Jail in lieu of a $17,500 bond, could be sentenced to as many as 42 years in prison if convicted of felony theft charges and violating probation from a previous bicycle theft conviction.

A trial is scheduled for March.

"A lot of our bike thefts are crimes of opportunity or desire, but I don’t think we see a lot of serial bike thefts to this extent," said Boulder police spokeswoman Julie Brooks.

Also setting this case apart from others is how the suspect was tracked down.

A man who had his teal 2001 Bianchi Axis road bike stolen from a rack at 11th and Pearl streets in April set up an automatic search on eBay to alert him when a similar bike went up for sale, according to an arrest warrant. The man called police upon seeing his $1,600 ride on the auction block, and detectives ended up seizing dozens of stolen bikes from Ellison’s home, his son’s garage and a storage locker.

Ellison told police he had no idea the bikes were stolen and pointed them to Farrell as his supplier, according to the warrant.

Ellison, who goes by the eBay seller name "rocknrollprof," said he would talk to Farrell three times a week, and the two would meet at parks or Farrell’s Boulder apartment parking lot to exchange cash for bikes, the warrant stated.

Ellison, who quit his teaching job at the University of Colorado at Denver because of his booming Internet sales business, said he believed Farrell was getting the bikes as trade-ins from his roommate’s father’s shop. He described Farrell as a well-groomed, articulate man who seemed to have come from an affluent family.

Ellison said he has no idea how many bicycles he got from Farrell and sold on eBay, but he noted that bikes are a small part of his business. He also sells stereos, commercial construction equipment and cameras — items Ellison said he picks up at auctions, pawn shops and flea markets.

"I won’t buy bikes anymore — I just won’t," Ellison said.

He said he recently had to deal with police in Denver about a shady bike dealer there.

Ellison, who said he was out $5,000 after Boulder police confiscated the bikes, is waiting for Farrell’s case to end so he can take possession of any bicycles police are unable to match up with an owner.

"I’m a victim in this situation," Ellison said.

Purchasers of the stolen bikes who were tracked down by police are also out money because they must return the bikes, Brooks said. Many have been "cooperative," she said, but many remain unknown.

Farrell has an extensive criminal history, according to police, including forgery, trespassing, assault, fraud and theft. He was arrested in March 2004 on suspicion of selling stolen bicycles from the CU campus on the Internet site Craigslist.com and later pleaded guilty to felony theft.

He also is accused of selling a laptop computer stolen in October 2004 from a Goss Street apartment. Detectives linked Farrell to that theft after a man who bought an Apple iBook off Craigslist.com took the machine in for a tune-up.

[shaq-d]

Ellison, who said he was out $5,000 after Boulder police confiscated the bikes, is waiting for Farrell’s case to end so he can take possession of any bicycles police are unable to match up with an owner.

"I’m a victim in this situation," Ellison said.


and that... is my point. you report these things after you've already gone through insurance, which will take care of you. you've paid your premiums and get your money back. go ahead and call the cops and allt hat stuff. but who gets screwed in the end? the other guy that bought the bike from the thief, and is now down the cost of the bike ($5,000 in this case).

on the other hand, fi you don't go through the cops and all that and let insurance do its thing, then the small ebay shop owner doesn't lose $5k adn neither do you, the guy who lost the bike but got compensated.

it's fairly simple. either you favour insurance companies, or you favour the small ebay owner.

me, i prefer to favour the individual person ahead of the headless giant. to call an insurance company "the victim", which likely makes more profit in a day than an individual does in a year is, to be polite, uncanny.

sd

[CNY rider]

and that... is my point. you report these things after you've already gone through insurance, which will take care of you. you've paid your premiums and get your money back. go ahead and call the cops and allt hat stuff. but who gets screwed in the end? the other guy that bought the bike from the thief, and is now down the cost of the bike ($5,000 in this case).

on the other hand, fi you don't go through the cops and all that and let insurance do its thing, then the small ebay shop owner doesn't lose $5k adn neither do you, the guy who lost the bike but got compensated.

it's fairly simple. either you favour insurance companies, or you favour the small ebay owner.

me, i prefer to favour the individual person ahead of the headless giant. to call an insurance company "the victim", which likely makes more profit in a day than an individual does in a year is, to be polite, uncanny.

sd




First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller


See what I'm saying?

[shaq-d]

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


Pastor Martin Niemöller


See what I'm saying?

i guess i prefer the german.

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte.

-- Der Weg ins Freie, Martin Niemöller (F.M. Hellbach, Stuttgart, 1946)