Anyone ride 6800 yet?

[stien]

Apparently ultegra 6800 11 speed is out and the shifters are a lot like DA. Anyone ride it yet?

[irideslow8401]

CC has them now but not in group.. price wise is not as low comparing to used 9000. Hope it will help lower the DA 9000 price down.

[rice rocket]

Apparently ultegra 6800 11 speed is out and the shifters are a lot like DA. Anyone ride it yet?

I bet it's like all the other Ultegra/DA sets.

A little heavier, same performance. Although Ultegra cranks have been tested stiffer than DA.

[tlittlefield]

Short review...

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/new-bike-gear-previews/first-look-shimano-ultegra-6800

[beercan]

I bet it's like all the other Ultegra/DA sets.

A little heavier, same performance. Although Ultegra cranks have been tested stiffer than DA.

i am curious on where you have read that? Been looking for a new crank

[stien]

CC has them now but not in group.. price wise is not as low comparing to used 9000. Hope it will help lower the DA 9000 price down.

I just saw the group minus wheels for 995 at planet cyclery, which prompted this thread.

[rice rocket]

i am curious on where you have read that? Been looking for a new crank

It obviously doesn't apply to the current 6800 crank since it hasn't been released yet, but back in the day...

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16686

[Kirk Pacenti]

Finishing up a new build for my wife now. Stuff looks pretty good, I am sure it will work great. I'll probably use it on my new bike as well.

[WickedWheels]

The stuff is awesome, like most Ultegra stuff. I pre-ordered a group and have a couple of new Giants sitting with it in the store. It's going to be a killer year for bikes $2500+.

This is what I built up yesterday:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=696152947065367&set=a.428377670509564.117153.427544780592853&type=1&theater

Sorry it's of my shop's facebook page. I don't have a copy of the image on this computer. If you don't want to open it, it's a Parlee Z5 that came in at 15.5 lbs.

[WickedWheels]

One of the coolest things with the new 11-speed Shimano, by the way, is that out of one crankset you can run standard 53/39, compact 50/34, semi-compact, cx gearing or TT gearing... all just by swapping chainrings. You don't have to worry about bolt patterns anymore. This means that you can get a wattage-sensing Stages crank setup and not worry about having to swap for a climbing race.

[oldpotatoe]

I just saw the group minus wheels for 995 at planet cyclery, which prompted this thread.

Wonderful...anyway...I see 6800 is about 1/2 the price of 9000( ya know, the nasty MSRP thing)..pretty much the same materials..no carbon(both have carbon levers), a bit of ti in the cogset, a carbon cog carrier for part of the cogset in 9000..so is 6800 under priced or 9000 over priced?

With Chorus/Record/SuperRecord, easy to see what makes one the price it is when compared to the others. I donno..without the slick cables,, it 'feels' and works a lot like 7800...need new hubs if ya don't have shimano 11s specific....

shimano/sram did what Campagnolo did, almost 5 years ago...I have a demo bike with 9000, and ones with SR, Record EPS and Chorus..think I'll stick with



ya know.......Chorus is 'about' the $ 6800 is...Record about what 9000 is...

BUT OEM..it's gonna be a Force22 killer.

[Onno]

One of the coolest things with the new 11-speed Shimano, by the way, is that out of one crankset you can run standard 53/39, compact 50/34, semi-compact, cx gearing or TT gearing... all just by swapping chainrings. You don't have to worry about bolt patterns anymore. This means that you can get a wattage-sensing Stages crank setup and not worry about having to swap for a climbing race.

Thanks for this info. This really is a great idea. Wonder why it took so long to figure out.

[Aaron_Kellogg]

Stuff looks awesome. Hoping to pick up one of the new allez's with this build.

[SpeedyChix]

One of the coolest things with the new 11-speed Shimano, by the way, is that out of one crankset you can run standard 53/39, compact 50/34, semi-compact, cx gearing or TT gearing... all just by swapping chainrings. You don't have to worry about bolt patterns anymore. This means that you can get a wattage-sensing Stages crank setup and not worry about having to swap for a climbing race.

How's the shift lever feel/action between DA and Ultegra?
Same hood shape on both?

[WickedWheels]

How's the shift lever feel/action between DA and Ultegra?
Same hood shape on both?

Honestly? No difference.

There's about 1/2 lb worth of weight difference overall. 260g, I think... Dura-Ace has a 3 year warranty, nicer finish. I don't know about the shifters, but in the past Dura-Ace used bearings instead of bushings for the shifting pivots and D-A has pulleys that both use sealed cartridge bearings.

Just as before, if you're not looking for the absolute best and want quality, long-lasting stuff for a reasonable price Ultegra will be a winner. I have carbon bikes from Giant that come with almost a complete Ultegra 6800 group (the brakes are 105-series) for $2550 MSRP. That's an amazing value for a solid bike.

[SpeedyChix]

Honestly? No difference.

There's about 1/2 lb worth of weight difference overall. 260g, I think... Dura-Ace has a 3 year warranty, nicer finish. I don't know about the shifters, but in the past Dura-Ace used bearings instead of bushings for the shifting pivots and D-A has pulleys that both use sealed cartridge bearings.

Just as before, if you're not looking for the absolute best and want quality, long-lasting stuff for a reasonable price Ultegra will be a winner. I have carbon bikes from Giant that come with almost a complete Ultegra 6800 group (the brakes are 105-series) for $2550 MSRP. That's an amazing value for a solid bike.

Thanks. Considering re-equipping a cx/gravel bike and 6800 could be the ticket.

[Mark McM]

One of the coolest things with the new 11-speed Shimano, by the way, is that out of one crankset you can run standard 53/39, compact 50/34, semi-compact, cx gearing or TT gearing... all just by swapping chainrings. You don't have to worry about bolt patterns anymore. This means that you can get a wattage-sensing Stages crank setup and not worry about having to swap for a climbing race.

How is this any different from current 110mm BCD cranks? A wide variety of different chainrings are available for this BCD, and can be used to make as many (and in fact more) different combinations than the new Shimano bolt pattern.

[WickedWheels]

How is this any different from current 110mm BCD cranks? A wide variety of different chainrings are available for this BCD, and can be used to make as many (and in fact more) different combinations than the new Shimano bolt pattern.

Shimano rings are not just basic stamped aluminum. They are hollow and "dome-shaped". This makes them quite a bit stiffer.

With a 110mm BCD if you were to use standard rings, assuming you can find a 53/39 or a 55/42 (which are both available) in Shimano you're going to get a bit of flex out of the rings, which will make the shifting a little less "crisp". With the stiffer Shimano rings that doesn't happen. If you get a chance grab a hold of a newer Shimano Ultegra or Dura-Ace rings, even the 10spd stuff. You'll feel a difference. They really are superb (and I'm a Campy guy).

[AngryScientist]

a full 6800 group is under $800 shipped from a few of the UK suppliers right now, that's very tempting for such a solid group. i like the looks and feel of the new shimano a lot right now, and given the recent light that shimano and campy 11-speed cogsets should work with either/or group, it's a great time to be riding 11-speed, either way.

[Mark McM]

Shimano rings are not just basic stamped aluminum. They are hollow and "dome-shaped". This makes them quite a bit stiffer.

So it is the chainrings, rather than the cranks (or its BCD) that is the key. What is to stop someone from making similarly hollow chainrings with a 110mm 5 arm BCD?

[cfox]

So it is the chainrings, rather than the cranks (or its BCD) that is the key. What is to stop someone from making similarly hollow chainrings with a 110mm 5 arm BCD?

the inability to hollow forge like Shimano.

[Mark McM]

the inability to hollow forge like Shimano.

Don't SRAM, FSA, Cannondale, Truvativ, and Promax also make hollow forged cranks?

[cfox]

Don't SRAM, FSA, Cannondale, Truvativ, and Promax also make hollow forged cranks?

We're talking about chainrings, right? I'm pretty sure Shimano is the only one making thick, light, super stiff hollow rings. They developed them while they were developing Di2 (which is optimized with super stiff chainrings).

[gavingould]

cranks maybe, but not chainrings. there's the rub.

edit: cfox beat me to it.

[WickedWheels]

a full 6800 group is under $800 shipped from a few of the UK suppliers right now, that's very tempting for such a solid group. i like the looks and feel of the new shimano a lot right now, and given the recent light that shimano and campy 11-speed cogsets should work with either/or group, it's a great time to be riding 11-speed, either way.

Too bad the UK-sourced components don't come with a warranty, installation or any technical knowledge and support for on this forum. I have these groups available in my shop, too, and unlike the UK mail order companies money spent at my shop (or any other US shop, like OldPotatoe's) stays in this country.

Here's one at mine:
http://www.bicycleplayground.com/product/14shimano-ultegra-6800-11-speed-group-1881.htm

I'll even extend the Paceline folks a 15% discount. Just type in Paceline15 at checkout.

[fourflys]

I'll even extend the Paceline folks a 15% discount. Just type in Paceline15 at checkout.

that's pretty awesome right there! :banana:

[cbass]

I don't know what i should get. 10-spd ultegra di2 for a couple hundred extra or the 11-spd ultegra. Decisions Decisions.....

[shovelhd]

I don't know what i should get. 10-spd ultegra di2 for a couple hundred extra or the 11-spd ultegra. Decisions Decisions.....

If your wheels are not 11 speed compatible, you'll spend a lot more than a couple hundred making it work. If you like or need multiple cassettes, add more. Chains cost twice as much over ten speed.

[WickedWheels]

I don't know what i should get. 10-spd ultegra di2 for a couple hundred extra or the 11-spd ultegra. Decisions Decisions.....

Why spend serious money on something that's already becoming obsolete? It doesn't make it bad, but will eventually limit you for replacement parts and upgrades. I can't imagine that electronic is that much more enticing, unless you're running a tri bike and can really benefit from multiple shift positions.

As for wheels...
Mavic is compatible
Anything on a DT Swiss hub can be easily converted
American Classic can be converted
Zipp, Easton... can be converted

The biggest one who's hubs can't easily be converted is Shimano, ironically.

[fatallightning]

cranks maybe, but not chainrings. there's the rub.

edit: cfox beat me to it.

best unintentional pun ever.

[shovelhd]

6700 is a long ways from being deemed obsolete. We also don't know what the OP has invested in wheels and cassettes. Maybe they can be converted, maybe not.

If I were buying a new complete bike today, I would buy an 11 speed model over a leftover ten speed model, no doubt.

[Climb01742]

As for wheels...
Mavic is compatible
Anything on a DT Swiss hub can be easily converted
American Classic can be converted
Zipp, Easton... can be converted

The biggest one who's hubs can't easily be converted is Shimano, ironically.

so most existing, non-shimano 10-speed wheels/hubs can be converted to 11-speed?

and please pardon a bit of thread drift but...have you ridden a giant defy advanced sl? intriguing bike. thx.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't know what i should get. 10-spd ultegra di2 for a couple hundred extra or the 11-spd ultegra. Decisions Decisions.....

Athena EPS or Chorus

[WickedWheels]

Athena EPS or Chorus

Chorus is pricing out a few hundred more over 6800. I'm a Campy guy myself, but I would take Ultegra over Athena... they seem to be at a similar price point. I'm saying that as someone who's got Chorus on his bikes.

[WickedWheels]

so most existing, non-shimano 10-speed wheels/hubs can be converted to 11-speed?

and please pardon a bit of thread drift but...have you ridden a giant defy advanced sl? intriguing bike. thx.

I haven't ridden the Defy Advanced SL, but I've ridden the Advanced (very similar frames). Very solid ride. Seemed a little more "spirited" of a ride than a Specialized Roubaix or a Cannondale Synapse. Felt like more of a race bike that those two. It felt stiffer, more precise... similar to a 7-series Madone H2 but not as harsh.

My personal preference is for quicker handling bikes, though. Not total crit machines, but quicker bikes. I've ridden a lot of bikes and somehow always end up comparing everything to my '97 Merlin Extralight. It's not a jittery bike, but feels so balanced that I have to put no effort into controlling it. The Parlee's I've ridden were similar, by the way... the stock Z5's. I would take one of those over the Advanced SL any day. They will hit lower price points, too. They are surprising bikes because you don't expect them to feel as solid as they look. The smaller diameter tubes really fool you.

[SteveV0983]

Add Velocity to the list of those offering 11 sp replacement cassette bodies. I know they offer them for their Race hubs becaue I called them about changing mine over, but then I decided to just stick with 10sp.

[nahtnoj]

If your wheels are not 11 speed compatible, you'll spend a lot more than a couple hundred making it work. If you like or need multiple cassettes, add more. Chains cost twice as much over ten speed.

That depends on whether you want your 11 speed to actually be 11 speed or not...

[oldpotatoe]

Chorus is pricing out a few hundred more over 6800. I'm a Campy guy myself, but I would take Ultegra over Athena... they seem to be at a similar price point. I'm saying that as someone who's got Chorus on his bikes.

Guess it depends where ya get it. I still think 6800 is keen but now what Campg offered starting in 2009. Mid priced 11s. For DA, still prefer Record. OEM with 6800, almost a group, frame, the rest 'free'.

[nahtnoj]

Wonderful...anyway...I see 6800 is about 1/2 the price of 9000( ya know, the nasty MSRP thing)..pretty much the same materials..no carbon(both have carbon levers), a bit of ti in the cogset, a carbon cog carrier for part of the cogset in 9000..so is 6800 under priced or 9000 over priced?

With Chorus/Record/SuperRecord, easy to see what makes one the price it is when compared to the others. I donno..without the slick cables,, it 'feels' and works a lot like 7800...need new hubs if ya don't have shimano 11s specific....



Chorus is more different from SR than 6800 is from 9000?

OK.....

[oldpotatoe]

Chorus is more different from SR than 6800 is from 9000?

OK.....

6800 and 9000 seem very similar, so much so, including materials, not sure why 6800 is 1/2 9000 is all. Much less carbon, titanium and ceramic on chorus than SR. Not saying all that stuff is essential but certainly more expensive.

[pjmsj21]

My wife is considering the 6800 group for a new BMC GF01. Our local shop indicates that there are availability problems with the 6800. So how available is 6800 and is Dura Ace 9000 more available?

Also will both Ultegra and DA take up to a 32 in the rear?

Thanks.

[TimD]

so most existing, non-shimano 10-speed wheels/hubs can be converted to 11-speed?


I had the same question. In my case the hubs of interest are DT 240S.

http://www.dtswiss.com/Accessories/Rotor-kits-Road

[aramis]

Also will both Ultegra and DA take up to a 32 in the rear?

Thanks.

That's the big reason why I'm interested in the new 11 speed ultegra.. honestly I'm waiting for the electronic version to come out because I don't want to give up my electronic shifting for mechanical.

[RedRider]

a full 6800 group is under $800 shipped from a few of the UK suppliers right now, that's very tempting for such a solid group. i like the looks and feel of the new shimano a lot right now, and given the recent light that shimano and campy 11-speed cogsets should work with either/or group, it's a great time to be riding 11-speed, either way.

You must be mistaken about that UK price. That's the same as my dealer price direct from Shimano. :mad:

We've ordered and taken immediate delivery of three 6800 groups in the last two weeks and had no availability issues.

[gomango]

You must be mistaken about that UK price. That's the same as my dealer price direct from Shimano. :mad:

We've ordered and taken immediate delivery of three 6800 groups in the last two weeks and had no availability issues.

Ribble is at $825 this morning.

[oldpotatoe]

My wife is considering the 6800 group for a new BMC GF01. Our local shop indicates that there are availability problems with the 6800. So how available is 6800 and is Dura Ace 9000 more available?

Also will both Ultegra and DA take up to a 32 in the rear?

Thanks.

9000 has been around for quite a while now. 6800 is brand new-going to OE first.

Use a 6800 'midcage' RD with the rest 9000(if you can find one)and you can use the 6800 11s 11-32(if you can find one)..since the 6800 RD(and ONLY the 6800 RD + 9000 RD, short cage) is compatible with 9000 shifters.

[oldpotatoe]

You must be mistaken about that UK price. That's the same as my dealer price direct from Shimano. :mad:



shimano and Campagnolo has been priced at the UK places at MY(and YOURS), wholesale pricing for a while...no mistake, except for shimano-they are the only ones who can control this.

[RedRider]

shimano and Campagnolo has been priced at the UK places at MY(and YOURS), wholesale pricing for a while...no mistake, except for shimano-they are the only ones who can control this.

Yes it has. My sarcasm masks frustration...

Part of the problem is that UK VAT(value added tax) is 20%. This is added to the retail price on every domestic sale. If goods are shipped outside the UK there is no VAT so it's an immediate 20% discount.

[soulspinner]

Yes it has. My sarcasm masks frustration...

Part of the problem is that UK VAT(value added tax) is 20%. This is added to the retail price on every domestic sale. If goods are shipped outside the UK there is no VAT so it's an immediate 20% discount.

Two tiered pricing. The US gets the Campy shaft, Shimano too?

[Andreas]

Ribble is at $825 this morning.

cheaper at merlin and bike-discount

for the person who asked about 10 vs 11 sp di2:
the only part that determines number of gears with di2 is the RD
so you could go with di2 10 speed and when you are ready to go to 11 speed you only need to change the RD, all other parts are compatible

[oldpotatoe]

Yes it has. My sarcasm masks frustration...

Part of the problem is that UK VAT(value added tax) is 20%. This is added to the retail price on every domestic sale. If goods are shipped outside the UK there is no VAT so it's an immediate 20% discount.


C'mon, it's not the 'VAT', it's the manufacturer not controlling their distribution and the the resulting pricing. Even WITH VAT, it's priced below the minimum recognized to be able to 'keep the lights on'.....

And for right above-you need to 'tell' the shifter that it's 11s as well..via the soft ware. If you have early gen ultegra di2, you don't have the wee USB..so you 'may' need an interface as well.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Pricing issues / problems aside, 6800 (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1402917&postcount=58) works great!

[pjmsj21]

Peter

Just confirming that only 6800 will work with the 32t cassette? My LBS says he can "make it work"???????

PJ

9000 has been around for quite a while now. 6800 is brand new-going to OE first.

Use a 6800 'midcage' RD with the rest 9000(if you can find one)and you can use the 6800 11s 11-32(if you can find one)..since the 6800 RD(and ONLY the 6800 RD + 9000 RD, short cage) is compatible with 9000 shifters.

[NeauDL]

Question for OP: Can you use other rear derailleurs, i. e. 9 speed XT, XTR or LX, with the 11-speed shifters in order to use mountain cassettes? I was wondering about getting 6800 shifters, a 9-speed mountain RD, and trying a jtek shiftmate to make it work with a 10-speed 11-36 cassette.

[KidWok]

Question for OP: Can you use other rear derailleurs, i. e. 9 speed XT, XTR or LX, with the 11-speed shifters in order to use mountain cassettes? I was wondering about getting 6800 shifters, a 9-speed mountain RD, and trying a jtek shiftmate to make it work with a 10-speed 11-36 cassette.

That seems to be a whole lot of work when you can just use 10 speed sti's directly with 9 speed derailleurs.

Tai

[oldpotatoe]

Peter

Just confirming that only 6800 will work with the 32t cassette? My LBS says he can "make it work"???????

PJ

You can 'make it work' with a 9000 RD and perhaps a too short chain, to get the top pulley off the biggest cog but you 'may' have issues in big ring-bigger cogs.

[oldpotatoe]

Question for OP: Can you use other rear derailleurs, i. e. 9 speed XT, XTR or LX, with the 11-speed shifters in order to use mountain cassettes? I was wondering about getting 6800 shifters, a 9-speed mountain RD, and trying a jtek shiftmate to make it work with a 10-speed 11-36 cassette.

Nope, like DA 7400 rear ders, 9000 and now 6800 is unique in this bike world..

Don't know about jtek stuff.

[mistermo]

...and given the recent light that shimano and campy 11-speed cogsets should work with either/or group....

This is true? But I imagine I still couldn't use a 6800 11-32 cassette with Chorus/Record/Etc, right?

[bcroslin]

Dredging this thread back up since folks have been riding 6800 for a few months. I'm switching from SRAM Red to Shimano and I recently test rode a bike for a week with DA 9000 and loved it. I was ready to pull the trigger on a bike with DA 9000 but the more I read about Ultegra 6800 the more it's got me scratching my head. Besides the price and 250 grams what's the difference between 6800 and 9000? Seems like I could save myself $800 by going 6800 which I could put towards a set of DA C-24 wheels.

If you've had a chance to ride and compare the 2 groups let me know if I'm on the wrong track thinking 6800 makes more sense.

Bob

[old fat man]

I'm excited to give the 6800 a shot. Hard to beat this kind of pricing for a new groupo: http://www.probikekit.com/cycling-groupsets/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-speed-groupset-grey/10836459.html

[oldpotatoe]

Dredging this thread back up since folks have been riding 6800 for a few months. I'm switching from SRAM Red to Shimano and I recently test rode a bike for a week with DA 9000 and loved it. I was ready to pull the trigger on a bike with DA 9000 but the more I read about Ultegra 6800 the more it's got me scratching my head. Besides the price and 250 grams what's the difference between 6800 and 9000? Seems like I could save myself $800 by going 6800 which I could put towards a set of DA C-24 wheels.

If you've had a chance to ride and compare the 2 groups let me know if I'm on the wrong track thinking 6800 makes more sense.

Bob

Hardly anything...materials, same 'feel'..less titanium and a few bits of carbon. Makes me wonder either is DA9000 overpriced or 6800 really a great deal...?

[rice rocket]

Makes me wonder either is DA9000 overpriced or 6800 really a great deal...?

Both? :)

I'm sure 6800 sells tons more than their 9000 series, so they have their volume product and their high margin one, both with their respective markets.

[russ46]

Installed a 6800 group set yesterday since it was raining. Took a short ride to test it out during a break in the weather. I was impressed. Feel like I have a new bike. My only problem was skipping gears on the downshifts because the touch is so light. I'm sure my brain will recalibrate quickly. The front DR, which had become a major headache on my old 6600 group, also has a very light touch. I'm sold!

[bcroslin]

Also wondering...DA 9000 and Ultegra 6800 are completely compatible correct? So, if I want to swap 6800 bits for lighter DA bits I can do that correct?

It seems to me like the only down side to a 6800 group 250 grams. It doesn't seem like 6800 is going to weigh much more than my 2011 SRAM Red group especially since I'm already running a 6800 11-23 cassette and chain.

6800 it is!

Bob

[bluesea]

Anyone think 6700 shifts better than 6800?

[bigman]

Is 6800 just as noisy as 6700. FYI I still like 7800 and 6600 hundred more than the 6700 stuff.
The Tiagra 10 speed feels like the old 7800 durace.

[RacerJRP]

I have been running 6800 on my CX for about a month now. First non-Sram group in about 4 years. Will definitely take some getting used to but the quality is obvious.

[bcroslin]

Anyone have a LBS (not PBK) price on a 6800 group? I think I read somewhere $1300.

[bobswire]

Anyone have a LBS (not PBK) price on a 6800 group? I think I read somewhere $1300.

Excel is having a 6800 upgrade sale. http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Ultegra+6800+11+Speed+5+Piece+Upgrade+ Kit&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=5

[bcroslin]

Excel is having a 6800 upgrade sale. http://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Ultegra+6800+11+Speed+5+Piece+Upgrade+ Kit&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=5

Wow! $600 for a group minus the cranks.

I spoke to the area Shimano rep yesterday and asked him about the 6800 group compared to DA. His opinion is that the mechanical DA fills the "snob" space for the cyclist that has to have the very best. Even he said there isn't a difference except weight.

[oldpotatoe]

Also wondering...DA 9000 and Ultegra 6800 are completely compatible correct? So, if I want to swap 6800 bits for lighter DA bits I can do that correct?

It seems to me like the only down side to a 6800 group 250 grams. It doesn't seem like 6800 is going to weigh much more than my 2011 SRAM Red group especially since I'm already running a 6800 11-23 cassette and chain.

6800 it is!

Bob

Yes, and also, when the RD dies, you can use a 6800 one.

well..2011 sram is 10s..6800 is 11s..methinks 6700 11-23?

[bcroslin]

Yes, and also, when the RD dies, you can use a 6800 one.

well..2011 sram is 10s..6800 is 11s..methinks 6700 11-23?

You are correct! This whole 10 speed/ 11 speed makes my brain hurt.

[old fat man]

Wow! $600 for a group minus the cranks.

I spoke to the area Shimano rep yesterday and asked him about the 6800 group compared to DA. His opinion is that the mechanical DA fills the "snob" space for the cyclist that has to have the very best. Even he said there isn't a difference except weight.

Also minus the brakes. Still not an lbs unless you live in co. Pbk has the group with crank, bob, and brakes for $770 shipped. You'd have to be crazy to buy from an lbs for $1100+

[oldpotatoe]

You are correct! This whole 10 speed/ 11 speed makes my brain hurt.

And...5 to ultra 6..6 to ultra 7...7s to 8s...

then 9s or 10s...then 10s or 11s....

wait till road becomes 135mm......

As for right above post...
'Crazy'..unless you need a warranty.

[Kirk Pacenti]

wait till road becomes 135mm......

I can't wait... should have been there years ago! ;)

Cheers,
KP

[old fat man]

And...5 to ultra 6..6 to ultra 7...7s to 8s...

then 9s or 10s...then 10s or 11s....

wait till road becomes 135mm......

As for right above post...
'Crazy'..unless you need a warranty.

need a warranty? it's not sram.

[oldpotatoe]

need a warranty? it's not sram.

Just mentioning it..no such thing as a free lunch.

But you are right.

[AngryScientist]

'Crazy'..unless you need a warranty.


when you pay half the cost, that kind of IS a warranty

just sayin...

[oldpotatoe]

when you pay half the cost, that kind of IS a warranty

just sayin...

Half price..cost is the same...