Opinion on 1983 Paramount

[Gsinill]

Before I bought my Appel, I was very close to pull the trigger on this Paramount (http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/bik/3927635632.html) on CL. I had quite a few emails going with the seller who seems to be an honest and straight forward guy.
It has been listed for quite a while so he might be open to negotiate. Thinking about a Waterford overhaul and maybe S&S couplers.
He sent me a bunch of high-res pictures and overall it appears to be in good shape other than the TT rust and the scratch on the fork crown.

Thoughts?

[dekindy]

Before I bought my Appel, I was very close to pull the trigger on this Paramount (http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/bik/3927635632.html) on CL. I had quite a few emails going with the seller who seems to be an honest and straight forward guy.
It has been listed for quite a while so he might be open to negotiate. Thinking about a Waterford overhaul and maybe S&S couplers.
He sent me a bunch of high-res pictures and overall it appears to be in good shape other than the TT rust and the scratch on the fork crown.

Thoughts?

Money pit.

[Lewis Moon]

Won't give an opinion on that bike, but I owned an '83 Waterford Paramount and it was too crit oriented for my tastes. Twitchy, not hugely stiff through the BB and the TT was too short for the size. YMMV.

[oliver1850]

Looks pretty nice to me. DA stuff looks to be in great shape, I can't tell if it's complete from the pics. I would just clean up and repaint the cable guides, and ride it.

[fiataccompli]

Doesn't look like it would need anything but regular maintenance to me. Looks nice and probably pretty reasonable in the context of a classic/vintage market.

[Gsinill]

...DA stuff looks to be in great shape...

Was my thought as well. Seems to be complete based on the additional pics he sent.
Not sure I like the crit like handling mentioned by LM.

[dekindy]

Money pit.

Based upon reference to Waterford overhaul and S&S Couplers. Have seen many examples of putting lots of money into old Schwinn Paramounts and then selling them at huge losses despite huge praise for the bikes. Just sayin....

[sean]

That one straddles the line between the good and crap PDG paramounts. Technically it's a PDG because of the year, but hasn't gotten the full treatment yet.

After '79, it's hard to get a paramount to hold it's value. The newer ones just don't. Anything before that still does pretty well.

Having said that, the asking price is fair, the 7400 stuff alone would cost around that to collect up.

As for couplers and all that, does seem like a money pit. You are getting into custom work, paint, all that fun stuff. At the end of the day, you could almost justify having something custom built.

[fiamme red]

I have a Paramount, also mid-'80's, 55cm, 7400 parts, but dark blue and with clincher rims. It was once my main road bike for a while. It felt like a true racing bike, fast and responsive, but there was plenty of clearance for wider tires. (Come to think of it, I was a lot faster back then too, and the 42/21 low gear didn't seem such a handicap as it does today.) I stopped riding it once I started to prefer larger frames. I need to sell it one of these days.

I do love those 7400 parts. The hubs are so incredibly smooth.

The bike is a bargain at the asking price, but if you're making it a project and sending it to Waterford for repainting and S&S, maybe you're better off starting with a new custom bike.

[oliver1850]

Could you elaborate on the reasons for this? I'll admit that I've never spent any time studying, or even seen many Paramounts, but my perception has been that the Waterford built ones were always good frames. I thought the quality issues were more endemic to late Chicago made frames. Is the value of later Paramounts due more to a perception that it's not a "real" one, or an issue of actual quality?


That one straddles the line between the good and crap PDG paramounts. Technically it's a PDG because of the year, but hasn't gotten the full treatment yet.

After '79, it's hard to get a paramount to hold it's value. The newer ones just don't. Anything before that still does pretty well.

.

[jvp]

I think it's the post-80s japan-built (panasonic) pdg's that don't hold their value as well as the waterford pdg's.

[Gummee]

Friend of mine let me borrow her Paramount when my Concorde was off getting a dropout replaced. The Paramount rode nicer than my SLX Concorde did! Slightly smoother while being (perceptually) just as stiff. I tried talking her out of it, but she wasn't selling.

IDK how to date Paramounts, but it was dark green, metallic.

If you want an old, steel bike those old Paramounts are nice. To S&S it? Pass.

M

[LouDeeter]

The Paramount Design Group "series" Paramounts were technically after 1989. I don't put the 1983 in the same "PDG" category. I found the early 80s to be nice bikes, well made and with nice tubing, usually Columbus SL with maybe SP in some of the tubes. Waterford made Paramounts always struck me as nice quality bikes. You could part that bike out for more than the asking price.

[fiataccompli]

OK...couplers, yeah...a fair chunk perhaps to put into it. I wouldn't mind trying one of these bikes out some day. I have a 1975 Pararmount P-13 and every time I ride it I'm reminded about what a nice all around riding bike it is...but I realize it's a very different machine than the ones from the topic era...

[RedRider]

Vintage (old) bikes are great. If you bought it new and it brings back memories it has personal value. If it's the bike you always wanted but couldn't afford years ago buy it and spend what you want on it because it will have personal value.
Rather than buy an old bike with no significant value, actual or personal, and adding money to it buy a new steel bike...you'll enjoy it much more and it will develop personal value.

[Gsinill]

Waterford made Paramounts always struck me as nice quality bikes. You could part that bike out for more than the asking price.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts before I posted this thread - just wanted some additional opinions.

Thanks everybody!
GS

[J.Greene]

These Waterford bikes are quite nice. I've owned a few. A 1986 was my first good bike. I've also repainted a few and anyone who has will tell you they were finely constructed and make the 70's Paramounts look like department store frames because they are constructed so crudely.