Customizing Campagnolo (10spd alloy)

[thirdgenbird]

I've always been a fan of Campagnolo 8-10spd groups so a while back I started making a group that combines the best of the lot. I wanted something that looked like 8spd but had 10 cogs.

The group started around a set of record titanium 8spd ergos that I tuned to 10spd specs.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/CD55136B-5167-4A5E-B88A-EF9C0321A981-17395-000012D025862632_zps87b7b3f5.jpg

Next came the crankset. I went with 1995(ish) record arms that still used the c-record design. I fitted them with 10spd chain rings, and the original alloy chain ring bolts. Just tonight, I installed a set of 10spd era fixing bolts in place of the self extractors (I've got a LH crank extractor) still not sure if I'm going to use them or the originals.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/F52DB3C4-81C5-4DAE-9F6D-5369F27C9F2D-17395-000012D23858D591_zps0336f3d5.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/DSC01050.jpg

I originally wanted to use record delta brakes but ran across the last (and best) version of monoplanars. They came as veloces, but they had cartridge pads and similar hardware as record. This made swapping record titanium hardware and the modern shaped pad holders easy. They may not be as cool as deltas, but they adapt to different rim widths well.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/EDE4A29D-AF5E-4B74-94F7-96801897EDD0-17395-000012D01B22204A_zps62a3b70f.jpg

The rear derailleur is still a work in progress. It's currently a centaur 10 unit with a record barrel adjuster. There is a good chance it will receive all the titanium bits from a record RD.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/0C031317-CC86-481C-B272-0B30F261A81E-17395-000012D245023AE3_zps7e7817c3.jpg

I've also have some NOS silver hubs collecting dust. They are a mixed set but should suit the group. The front is a 28h Athena for the 8spd era and the rear is a 28h record with the oversize axle. I've got silver record 10 skewers for both.

[thirdgenbird]

Oh, I'm also trying to decide between the monoplanars pointed steel cable pivot or the concave titanium one from the later record brakes. Feel free to weigh in. Yes, I know I've gone over the edge on this one...

[merckx]

Those monoplaners are chorus.

[thirdgenbird]

Those monoplaners are chorus.

Negative. They are branded veloce, its printed right on the arm. You can sort of read it here:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/DSC01046.jpg
When I got them, they came in the original box marked veloce as well.

They have arms that are thinner and lighter than chorus monoplanars. The slot in chorus monoplanars is also not wide enough to accept the modern Campagnolo pads (I've tried) It almost looks like Campagnolo made an improved monoplanar and then the market forced them to make chorus DP so they didn't waste the design. They didn't stick around long.

[christian]

I think I have a crush on you.

[thirdgenbird]

I think I have a crush on you.

:o

[nighthawk]

The group started around a set of record titanium 8spd ergos that I tuned to 10spd specs.


More about this, please!

Also, is that a Tommasini? Can we see a shot of the completed build when you get there?

Great work!

[thinpin]

nice.. to boldly go

[Salsa_Lover]

Interested on the 28h set

[oldpotatoe]

More about this, please!

Also, is that a Tommasini? Can we see a shot of the completed build when you get there?

Great work!

Not really hard. Just have to modify the 10s shift disc to get over the center bolt. Gotta use the center bolt provided since the older bodies and newer bodies are a different width thru the shift guts.

[thirdgenbird]

More about this, please!

Also, is that a Tommasini? Can we see a shot of the completed build when you get there?

Great work!

I will get more pictures and info later. It will be a busy morning

Interested on the 28h set

The 28h set will be laced to a set of NOS Campagnolo Seoul rims. I won't be parting with them.

Not really hard. Just have to modify the 10s shift disc to get over the center bolt. Gotta use the center bolt provided since the older bodies and newer bodies are a different width thru the shift guts.

I actually went with the 10spd shaft so I didn't have to modify the index gear. It was a trial and error as far as spacers go. I also has to drill a clearance hole in the body. If you look closely at the side profile you can see that the finger lever doesn't sit quite in the same place as stock but its darn close and shifting is perfect. Looking back, modifying the index ring may be cheaper and easier.

I'm guessing Ullrich and Ciipollini used levers that were built with a similar method. (With the carbon brake blade of course)

[Mark McM]

Negative. They are branded veloce, its printed right on the arm. You can sort of read it here:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/DSC01046.jpg
When I got them, they came in the original box marked veloce as well.

They have arms that are thinner and lighter than chorus monoplanars. The slot in chorus monoplanars is also not wide enough to accept the modern Campagnolo pads (I've tried) It almost looks like Campagnolo made an improved monoplanar and then the market forced them to make chorus DP so they didn't waste the design. They didn't stick around long.

In addition, the Chorus monoplanars had separate lock nuts on the pivot shaft:

http://mikesimagination.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/campag-monoplanar.jpg?w=549

[oliver1850]

Very nice. By the way 1995 was the first year of the new style crank, so yours is a bit older.

[Jaq]

You know, since you modded your thru-bolt in your Ergos, you can probably convert them to 11 speed as well.

There's a link around here somewhere to the company that makes the 11spd disc. Old P. would know the finer points.

[thirdgenbird]

Very nice. By the way 1995 was the first year of the new style crank, so yours is a bit older.

Nope, it has the later Campagnolo script and is labeled record. Earler versions had the shield logo and no group label. I confirmed with Old P. that the 180mm arms retained the c-record design later than other sizes. Sort of an odd ball like the rest of the build.

You know, since you modded your thru-bolt in your Ergos, you can probably convert them to 11 speed as well.

There's a link around here somewhere to the company that makes the 11spd disc. Old P. would know the finer points.

I've been in contact with this company. I nearly pulled the trigger but I'm waiting to hear feedback. Last I knew Old P had not tried his.

More pics:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/569F14F4-5752-4399-8902-9641702C2B20-326-00000011B8140060_zpsf77746ca.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/2012-04-03183701.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/DSC01045.jpg

My dad is the original owner of the framest. If I recall, he bought it late 1995 or early 1996.

[Jaq]

I've been in contact with this company. I nearly pulled the trigger but I'm waiting to hear feedback. Last I knew Old P had not tried his.

Do eet!

I converted my 8spd Ergos to 9. I've thought about trying for a 10 speed conversion by modding the shift disc, but if your modded shifter innards would take an 11 speed disc, that would probably be a better way to go.

Or I could just buy an 11-speed Athena drive train in alloy and be perfectly happy, and have brand-new stuff to boot.

[thirdgenbird]

Or I could just buy an 11-speed Athena drive train in alloy and be perfectly happy, and have brand-new stuff to boot.

You forgot save time/money.

You are really tempted to go 11. I would really like feedback from someone before I try it. Ive gambled a good deal already. It would be one thing if I had 11spd parts to test with (even a shimano wheel cassette) but I don't.

[thirdgenbird]

Here are the hubs I keep telling myself to lace up:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/87A652EC-43D6-49A2-870C-5360AE6A88CF-18636-00001404F529F56B_zps9236e178.jpg

NOS 28h record OS rear
NOS 28h Athena front
Record skewers (best ever)
Record 12-25 cassette (dont worry, the lock ring is finger tight)

As I said, its not a true set. Regardless, I think it is a good fit for the build. The bike is mash of 8 and 10spd era parts. This unintentional mix lets me benefit for the OS axle where it manners and the slimmer traditional body up front to match the slim (by modern standards) fork legs.


I still need opinions:

on the crank, do I got with the original self extractor bolts or the more modern ones? The self extractors are cool, but the later style almost look like a natural fit finish wise. See pics in previous page.

On the brakes, do I use the pointed cable anchor pivot:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/EDE4A29D-AF5E-4B74-94F7-96801897EDD0-17395-000012D01B22204A_zps62a3b70f.jpg

Or use a concave titanium one if it fits:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/Mexico/1750F51B-1BFB-47E1-AF75-B816938C6EEB-2070-0000025244F3EDF5_zps18c533df.jpg

[Salsa_Lover]

Call dibs on the hubs if you ever decide to sell them ;)

[thirdgenbird]

I will try and remember that. It could be a very long time ;)

[Steve in SLO]

1 vote for using the pointed pivot anchor...it is integral to the design and mirrors the center pivot. Why substitute it with something less elegant to save a few grams?

[StephenCL]

Very nice. By the way 1995 was the first year of the new style crank, so yours is a bit older.

Nope...see the way the logos are printed on the side...this only occured in 1995. I had been told that there were a few of these out there, but I have NEVER seen a set... how completely awesome...

Stephen

[StephenCL]

Negative. They are branded veloce, its printed right on the arm. You can sort of read it here:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/tommasini/DSC01046.jpg
When I got them, they came in the original box marked veloce as well.

They have arms that are thinner and lighter than chorus monoplanars. The slot in chorus monoplanars is also not wide enough to accept the modern Campagnolo pads (I've tried) It almost looks like Campagnolo made an improved monoplanar and then the market forced them to make chorus DP so they didn't waste the design. They didn't stick around long.


You can easily tell because of the shape of the tabs where the brake pads mount. They kind of sheared off the alloy ear of the tabs for these. It did make them a bit lighter. However, my experience has been that the Veloce version is not as stiff, and that modulation is much more difficult. The change came when the brakes went from Chorus to Athena in 1994, they also changed the spring wire gauge. It made the calipers more difficult to actuate. This changed carried on through the Veloce calipers shown here. They are still great brakes, just not as nice to use as the original Chorus units.

Stephen

[thirdgenbird]

1 vote for using the pointed pivot anchor...it is integral to the design and mirrors the center pivot. Why substitute it with something less elegant to save a few grams?

That is where I am leaning. Any crank bolt preference?

Nope...see the way the logos are printed on the side...this only occured in 1995. I had been told that there were a few of these out there, but I have NEVER seen a set... how completely awesome...

Stephen

My dad actually had two sets of these. He even has the original sales recipt. One set got sold off, but I was lucky to acquire this pair. There are some light shoe marks, but overall thry are very nice considering the massive amount of miles on them.

You can easily tell because of the shape of the tabs where the brake pads mount. They kind of sheared off the alloy ear of the tabs for these. It did make them a bit lighter. However, my experience has been that the Veloce version is not as stiff, and that modulation is much more difficult. The change came when the brakes went from Chorus to Athena in 1994, they also changed the spring wire gauge. It made the calipers more difficult to actuate. This changed carried on through the Veloce calipers shown here. They are still great brakes, just not as nice to use as the original Chorus units.

Stephen

I've had no issue with modulation or braking power. I think the modern pads helped offset things. The spring wire gauge is a disappointment. I wished I had swapped them with my old Athena pair. At the end of the day, the wider pad slot makes them preferable to chorus/Athena calipers in my opinion. The older block style pads just wouldn't fit the look I want.

[Hindmost]

Did you find it necessary/desirable to respace the rear dropouts?

Liking the mashup of period frame and components.

[thirdgenbird]

Did you find it necessary/desirable to respace the rear dropouts?

Liking the mashup of period frame and components.

The rear dropouts? They are the original ones to the frame. They are very short semi horizontal dropouts.

Why do you ask?

[4Rings6Stars]

The rear dropouts? They are the original ones to the frame. They are very short semi horizontal dropouts.

Why do you ask?

I think he is talking about cramming a 130 wheel into a 126 frame...

I have done so a dozen times without any respacing.

Awesome build, btw. With the exception of the seatpost (sorry, that thing is fugly), it's stunning!

[DRZRM]

That is awesome!! Great job!!

[thirdgenbird]

I think he is talking about cramming a 130 wheel into a 126 frame...

I have done so a dozen times without any respacing.

Awesome build, btw. With the exception of the seatpost (sorry, that thing is fugly), it's stunning!

I see that now... I read replace, not respace.

The frame has always been 130mm. I believe it was produced in 1995, well past 126mm.

Funny, I get a lot of complements on the seatpost. I wanted something silver and Italian. This was much cheaper than a Campagnolo seatpost of the same length. I like it.

[Wolfman]

I gotta chime in on the seatpost because I love the way that its bend mimics the radius in the forks. That, along with the horizontal stem on a classic steel frame really gets me.

Oh, btw, stick with the pointed pivot bolt without a doubt.

[thirdgenbird]

Thanks for the comments. I apreciate all feedback, both positive and negative. Just don't expect me to change much. I like her a lot :)