No gym, no weights, how do I get powerful?

[Tom]

Ride hills in big gears?

[William]

Heidens!!! (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3090&highlight=heidens)


William

[Sandy]

WILLIAMS!!

Just carry William around on your shoulders for a few weeks. That will make you very strong. But be sure to get the double hernia operation done prior to the cycling season. :) :D


Weightless in space,


Spaceman Sandy

[Too Tall]

Steady state work is fine but you need variety. Grinding uphill at 60 rpms all day will make you good at grinding uphill all day at 60 rpm :rolleyes:
Esp. at this time of yr. doing short(er) high watts work is a good thing. 3/5/10 min.s for instance with equal rest as a general guide. For variety and to build the aerobics riding 5 min.s intervals at threshold and hit it hard for 8-10 seconds every min. and return to threshold riding until the end, recover 10 mins. ...for instance ;) I take Visa, Mastercard and Ottrott.

[Sandy]

Steady state work is fine but you need variety. Grinding uphill at 60 rpms all day will make you good at grinding uphill all day at 60 rpm :rolleyes:
Esp. at this time of yr. doing short(er) high watts work is a good thing. 3/5/10 min.s for instance with equal rest as a general guide. For variety and to build the aerobics riding 5 min.s intervals at threshold and hit it hard for 8-10 seconds every min. and return to threshold riding until the end, recover 10 mins. ...for instance ;) I take Visa, Mastercard and Ottrott.

I guess you must be pretty good with your advice. If you were really good, you would have included the MeiVici. :)


Sandman

[znfdl]

So Sandy, what you are saying is that Too Tall should have a greater SPECTRUM of offerings :)

[Sandy]

So Sandy, what you are saying is that Too Tall should have a greater SPECTRUM of offerings :)

LOOK znfdl, if someone has SEVEN thousand dollars and a STRONG desire for a Meivici, why would he or she possibly make a GIANT TREK to a barn just to get some SPECIALIZED treatment? :rolleyes:


Mongoose Merlin Mirman

[Too Tall]

Heyyyyy, I'm not missing something Snandy. I like the Ottrott BETTER than the MuhMuhVeeCheee.

[Ken Lehner]

Ride hills in big gears?

What is your goal?

[Hard Fit]

A lot of good suggestions have been posted. I am thinking of using the stairs in my highrise as a training tool. Going up should provide at least some fitness help.

[jerk]

A lot of good suggestions have been posted. I am thinking of using the stairs in my highrise as a training tool. Going up should provide at least some fitness help.

a cyclist should never use stairs.

jerk

[Tom]

Here's the deal: I can go pretty quick for a long time. I can go up hills faster than a lot of people but I noticed that when I'm trying to hang with the front group they bounce up over the hills like they aren't red lining and I am. I also have the slowest sprint you ever saw.

I never liked running 5Ks, because I was just getting up to speed when it was over. I liked running marathons and if I was doing well I'd start picking everybody off after mile 20.

I need to get the power to make accelerations work better, be able to get a sprint up over 30 miles an hour, maintain a decent cadence on the hills and in general use a smaller percentage of my absolute power when I'm cruising briskly.

And, as they say, always leave 'em laughing: next year I'm getting my first racing license at the age of 44.

[aj4e]

a cyclist should never use stairs.

jerk

I was about to respond to use the stairs or a stair climber to build strength in the legs and then I saw this post. I have used stairs for years to keep my legs strong for snowboarding, but that is my only basis for thinking it would cross over to cycling.

Why should a cyclist not use stairs for strength training? (Please know that there is no sarcasm in this post, I am honestly intrigued.)

[pale scotsman]

Wall sits, run hill sprints, bodyweight squats, and some of wee willy's heidens and you'll be a bad man come spring. Seriously.

I've found that wall sits increase my threshold for pain and short hills are nothing compared to that. The hill sprints build explosive leg power and tax the lungs big time. Another one I've started is bear crawls where you basically walk around on all fours. Looks weird but it builds torso strength and lung power.

[fiamme red]

a cyclist should never use stairs.

jerkIs that some antiquated gospel from the CONI manual or Mike Walden?

Running stairs, if taken two at a time, is a great way to build power.

[Tom]

I remember when I was a pup and a runner, I used to spend time in a local up the hill. Some guy used to bet people that they couldn't do a one-legged squat with their other leg sticking straight out in front of them. The trick was he'd demonstrate it for them and they'd think it was doable.

Try it. It takes strength and balance that a lot of people don't have.

He drank free a lot.

[Roy E. Munson]

I do this retarded thing to get stronger on the bike - I ride my bike.

[Ken Lehner]

Is that some antiquated gospel from the CONI manual or Mike Walden?

Running stairs, if taken two at a time, is a great way to build power.

Which might be somewhat useful if you are a track sprinter. Specificity. The ability to generate power is pretty restricted to the joint angles and speeds of the training, so running stairs isn't particularly applicable to endurance cycling.

Wall sits? Great, if your event is wall sits. Isometric exercises don't carry over to range of motion activities like cycling. Perhaps useful for some mental thing, but I'd think that doing really hard L5 workouts would be time better spent.

[andy mac]

i just got this. haven't had the chance to give it a go yet as i'm still recovering from an injury but it looks interesting.

http://cyclo-zen.com/


bombs away,

andy

[Dr. Doofus]

somebody will tell the doof he is wrong, and they'll be wrong

periodize

you can't do hard sprints all year round

you can't do L5 all year round

you can periodize the development of cycling-specific strength all year round

early base: "stomps". slow down. sloooowww down. in the drops, stay seated and pound a big gear for 15-20 seconds. big means 52x14+.

purpose -- you're using the atp-cp system for energy, and you're training the neuro-muscular system to recruit large numbers of fibers within the motor units. the lower cadence of these, and staying in the saddle, keeps the speed component down, and emphasizes torque instead. its the first step in building towards combining high speed and high torque.

mid base: muscle tension. take it from the dudes doof has taken it from -- oliver starr, justin spinelli, and some guy who used to live 30 miles from here named george. it works. grind a big gear seated for 5-15 minutes. big means 52x13 or better. hr is low. cadence is 50-60. torque is high.

purpose: the stomps laid the foundation for attacks and sprints (which you can't work all year round, dork face). these lay the foundation for muscular endurance training. those long L3 tempos and L4 ints will be easier after doing MT for a month. the white coats can go screw. ask a cat who throws it down at the top of this sport. MT is the gateway to muscular endurance. it trains the neuro-muscular system to recruit moderately high numbers of fibers in the motor units over long durations, and also yields some endurance benefit -- the avg power for these ints will be 20-30 watts higher than for normally geared endurance training, although the HR is safely within L2.

late base: hills. L3. 70-75 rpm.

early preparatory: racing.

late preparatory: racing

early specific: VO2, racing

late specific: full effort sprints. :45-1:00 intervals. racing.

peak: full on sprints. racing.


if you don't have the sense to figure out that you have to start with working torque/force and pedal speed in isolation, then slowly start to combine them while gradually raising the intensity, and all in a sport-specific manner, you need to read your freaking Tudor Bompa or get out and either train or be coached by a real athlete, not some USCF joker. then you'll get it.

now go away and ride your bike

[93legendti]

Wall sits, run hill sprints, bodyweight squats, and some of wee willy's heidens and you'll be a bad man come spring. Seriously.

I've found that wall sits increase my threshold for pain and short hills are nothing compared to that. The hill sprints build explosive leg power and tax the lungs big time. Another one I've started is bear crawls where you basically walk around on all fours. Looks weird but it builds torso strength and lung power.

Yes, wall sits! I have been doing them since my ski racing and speed skating days. I do them immediately before interval workouts on the trainer for a really great workout.

[Fixed]

I do this retarded thing to get stronger on the bike - I ride my bike. bro that's to simple and makes to much sense here is one for you bunny hop up the stairs take lift down go up again or just bunny hop everywhere you go i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[Roy E. Munson]

When are where are the US Wall Sitting Championships this year?

[fiamme red]

I do this retarded thing to get stronger on the bike - I ride my bike.To state the obvious: there are times when one can't train effectively, whether it's too cold outside, heavy rain or snow. I'd rather do intervals running up the stairs than riding on a stationary trainer.

[Roy E. Munson]

Running up stairs? I can see taking up some other sport in the winter for the pure fun of it and the spinoff fitness that may come with it, but running up stairs to replace trainer time sounds like replacing one boring, monotonous exercise with another.

[Dr. Doofus]

specificty principle, dog

git on yer job

nobody said pimpin was easy

[fiamme red]

Running up stairs? I can see taking up some other sport in the winter for the pure fun of it and the spinoff fitness that may come with it, but running up stairs to replace trainer time sounds like replacing one boring, monotonous exercise with another.Running stairs for me isn't boring or monotonous; just very, very painful.

[Roy E. Munson]

I can come by and kick you in the nuts a few times. It's really painful and might help with your tolerance to pain once the cycling season starts. :banana:

[iml]

You can and should do hard sprints year-round. Right now, it's the only really "hard" riding I do. It did wonders for me last season and was a big part of me becoming competitive in a racing-crazy part of the country. See Mr. Lemond.

[coylifut]

I can come by and kick you in the nuts a few times. It's really painful and might help with your tolerance to pain once the cycling season starts. :banana:

you could probably get that syndicated on Japanese TV

[BumbleBeeDave]

I've been doing weightlifiting for quite a few years. I think you might be surprised--there's a great deal you can do with minimal equipment. I'd be happy to give you a few suggestions in person.

BBDave

[xcandrew]

There was an interesting thread on Letsrun.com where Eric Heiden posted some things about doing one-legged squats with 150 lbs of weight strapped around his waist and doing 1 hour wall sits.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1056178&page=0

Before the 1980 Olympics it wasn't uncommon for us to do the following:

Find an old truck tire intertube and cut out about one third of the tire (where the valve is). Seal one end by tying and taping with duct tape.

Fill intertube with either lead shot or pennies until alomost full. Seal off other end. I made several sizes but the biggest ones I figured weighed about 150lbs.

Swing the anaconda on your lower back and assume the speed skating position. Do 1 x 100 squats with each leg. Do that 5 x. Then repeat with both legs. Going down to slightly below 90 degrees.

Right after these we would drop the tube then do 15 - 20 squat jumps as high as you can bringing your legs up to your chest a the peak.

Usually the last one you would fall down because you could not support your weight anymore.

Dang, those were the days...and that was only workout number 1. usually we did 3 workouts a day.

Weights
Dryland skating simulation (duckwalk for 10k)
cycling/running

repeat.

Eric

Typically we did these in a skating position keeping our backs parallel to the floor and keeping your chin in line with the knee of the leg doing the work. The resting leg was slightly behind with the toe just off the floor. Goal was to use all of one leg with no cheating. I would do them either near a wall or table in case I needed to touch something briefly for balance. Arms were usually on my back.

We would be so wasted after these I wasn't sure how I would climb up out of my basement. One flight of stairs was formidable...

Now ask me about the one time I did a wall sit for one hour! That was freakin nuts! I think it was a world record at the time.

Eric

We were highballs back then...

We were training at the OTC at the Springs and I think it was 1978 and a buddy challenged me to see if I could do a wall sit for an hour.

Basically in a sitting position with your back against the wall, legs at 90 degrees. Arms hanging down at your sides.

Legs were shaking like a banshee at the end but I did it. Some squirt supposedly bested my time of 60 minutes with 61, but he didn't have a witness... you know how that goes.

Eric

[Climb01742]

There was an interesting thread on Letsrun.com where Eric Heiden posted some things about doing one-legged squats with 150 lbs of weight strapped around his waist and doing 1 hour wall sits.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1056178&page=0

Before the 1980 Olympics it wasn't uncommon for us to do the following:

Find an old truck tire intertube and cut out about one third of the tire (where the valve is). Seal one end by tying and taping with duct tape.

Fill intertube with either lead shot or pennies until alomost full. Seal off other end. I made several sizes but the biggest ones I figured weighed about 150lbs.

Swing the anaconda on your lower back and assume the speed skating position. Do 1 x 100 squats with each leg. Do that 5 x. Then repeat with both legs. Going down to slightly below 90 degrees.

Right after these we would drop the tube then do 15 - 20 squat jumps as high as you can bringing your legs up to your chest a the peak.

Usually the last one you would fall down because you could not support your weight anymore.

Dang, those were the days...and that was only workout number 1. usually we did 3 workouts a day.

Weights
Dryland skating simulation (duckwalk for 10k)
cycling/running

repeat.

Eric

Typically we did these in a skating position keeping our backs parallel to the floor and keeping your chin in line with the knee of the leg doing the work. The resting leg was slightly behind with the toe just off the floor. Goal was to use all of one leg with no cheating. I would do them either near a wall or table in case I needed to touch something briefly for balance. Arms were usually on my back.

We would be so wasted after these I wasn't sure how I would climb up out of my basement. One flight of stairs was formidable...

Now ask me about the one time I did a wall sit for one hour! That was freakin nuts! I think it was a world record at the time.

Eric

We were highballs back then...

We were training at the OTC at the Springs and I think it was 1978 and a buddy challenged me to see if I could do a wall sit for an hour.

Basically in a sitting position with your back against the wall, legs at 90 degrees. Arms hanging down at your sides.

Legs were shaking like a banshee at the end but I did it. Some squirt supposedly bested my time of 60 minutes with 61, but he didn't have a witness... you know how that goes.

Eric

roy, any comment? :D :beer:

[Roy E. Munson]

roy, any comment?

My apologies. I misread and thought we were talking about building strength for cycling, not speedskating. :butt:

[William]

There was an interesting thread on Letsrun.com where Eric Heiden posted some things about doing one-legged squats with 150 lbs of weight strapped around his waist and doing 1 hour wall sits.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1056178&page=0

Before the 1980 Olympics it wasn't uncommon for us to do the following:

Find an old truck tire intertube and cut out about one third of the tire (where the valve is). Seal one end by tying and taping with duct tape.

Fill intertube with either lead shot or pennies until alomost full. Seal off other end. I made several sizes but the biggest ones I figured weighed about 150lbs.

Swing the anaconda on your lower back and assume the speed skating position. Do 1 x 100 squats with each leg. Do that 5 x. Then repeat with both legs. Going down to slightly below 90 degrees.

Right after these we would drop the tube then do 15 - 20 squat jumps as high as you can bringing your legs up to your chest a the peak.

Usually the last one you would fall down because you could not support your weight anymore.

Dang, those were the days...and that was only workout number 1. usually we did 3 workouts a day.

Weights
Dryland skating simulation (duckwalk for 10k)
cycling/running

repeat.

Eric

Typically we did these in a skating position keeping our backs parallel to the floor and keeping your chin in line with the knee of the leg doing the work. The resting leg was slightly behind with the toe just off the floor. Goal was to use all of one leg with no cheating. I would do them either near a wall or table in case I needed to touch something briefly for balance. Arms were usually on my back.

We would be so wasted after these I wasn't sure how I would climb up out of my basement. One flight of stairs was formidable...

Now ask me about the one time I did a wall sit for one hour! That was freakin nuts! I think it was a world record at the time.

Eric

We were highballs back then...

We were training at the OTC at the Springs and I think it was 1978 and a buddy challenged me to see if I could do a wall sit for an hour.

Basically in a sitting position with your back against the wall, legs at 90 degrees. Arms hanging down at your sides.

Legs were shaking like a banshee at the end but I did it. Some squirt supposedly bested my time of 60 minutes with 61, but he didn't have a witness... you know how that goes.

Eric

I would do Heidens with an olympic bar with 25 pound plates on each side= 95 pounds. You wanna talk about quads, glutes, hams and calves on fire, shaking, and blooning up feeling like they were going to explode. :cool:

William

[manet]

http://www.myfit.ca/exercisedatabase/images/doublestairs.gif

[beungood]

"
Heidens!!!


William "

Just had a wave of nausea thinking about them........ :butt:

[Roy E. Munson]

Hermann Maier’s Workout routine

Train Like a Turtle
===========================
By Helen Olsson

Follow Hermann Maier’s über-endurance program—you’ll ski stronger, longer.
On August 24, 2001, Austrian Hermann Maier was riding his custom-made motorcycle near the town of Radstadt, Austria, when he swerved into a ditch to avoid colliding with an oncoming Mercedes. Pinned beneath his bike with a crushed leg, the two-time Olympic champ experienced massive bleeding in his muscles. Damaged nerve tissue paralyzed him from the waist down. In a seven-hour surgery, doctors repaired his compound fracture with a 15-inch rod—and they couldn’t say if Maier would ever walk again, let alone ski. Forget withstanding six g’s in a Hahnenkamm downhill.

But just 521 days after the accident, Maier won a World Cup Super G in Kitzbühel, and last season he took the overall World Cup title. What’s more incredible than the comeback is how he pulled it off. Though his massive quads would suggest marathon weight sets and hours of plyometrics, Maier’s training was—and had been for some time—90 percent cardiovascular. Post-crash, he lost nearly 40 pounds and his calf swelled bigger than his thigh. He simply couldn’t train like a heavyweight. What made him so strong—and brought him to full recovery—was the 10 hours a day, six days a week he spent pedaling the wheels of a stationary bike. In essence, Maier was training less like a ski racer and more like Lance Armstrong.
Maier’s trainers say that what makes his program so effective is the careful monitoring of lactate levels in his blood, which they measure with a pinprick to his earlobe every hour. If the levels are too high, he spins slower; too low, he ratchets up the intensity. Training in this window of efficiency increases his oxygen-carrying capacity without overtraining or injuring his muscles. “It’s all about easy cycling in the right amounts,” says Maier. Before meeting his trainer, Heinrich Bergmüller, Maier trained like a pro weight lifter. It wasn’t until 1997, when Maier broke his arm in a bad fall, that he switched to Bergmüller’s philosophy of endurance training. “Someone should have slowed me down…and thrown me out of the weight room,” says Maier. Six weeks after relinquishing his power training for stamina training—and all but giving up weight lifting (the heaviest weight he works with is a mere 11 pounds)—Maier won his first World Cup race, a super G at Garmisch.

If you like the idea of dumping the barbells and getting stronger, try these sample workouts, cribbed from the Herminator’s book The Hermann Maier Performance Program. Though the exercises don’t require dumbbells, your strength gains should be intense.Click the articles below for the workouts.

Train Like a Turtle: The Acid Test

Ask a personal trainer, physical therapist, or endurance coach where you can get a lactate test in your hometown. Cycling clubs like Carmichael Training Systems Performance Center (ctsaspen.com) in Aspen offer the test, which usually runs about $100. If you plan to check your lactate often, get a credit card–sized Lactate Pro Portable Lactate Analyzer at hdosport.com; the starter package is $400.

“It is not your pulse that is decisive, but the lactate which controls the heart rate,” Bergmüller says. Figure it out, stay in the saddle for the long haul, and you’ll be skiing longer, stronger, and injury free. Just be careful on the Harley.

Train Like a Turtle: Pedal for Power
By Helen Olsson
By measuring the lactate in your blood during exercise, you can determine how your heart rate corresponds with your anaerobic threshold.
Once you’ve determined your ranges, do 90 percent of your training below your anaerobic threshold (keeping your lactate levels below 2; you’re burning fat for energy and your heart rate is 110–120 beats per minute). Bergmüller calls this the “compensation level.” In the “stabilization level,” the body is still working aerobically, but lactate levels are between 2 and 4 (heart rate is 155–160 bpm) and you’re burning carbs and fat. The final phase of the training is the “development level,” an intense, carb-burning workout.

Compensation Training

3 sets of 30-minute rides (below lactate 2 OR pulse 120 at 88 to 90 revs/minute) with 5-minute stretching breaks between sessions.

Compensation + Stabilization
Stationary bike session at 88 to 90 revs/minute:

25 minutes of warm-up cycling at compensation level (below lactate 2, pulse 120)
7 minutes at stabilization level (between lactate 4 and 6, pulse 160)
5-minute break (stretching off the bike)
8 minutes at stabilization (between lactate 4 and 6, pulse 160)
5-minute break (stretching off the bike)
10 minutes at stabilization level (between lactate 4 and 6, pulse 160)
5-minute break (stretching off the bike)
25 minutes of cool-down cycling at compensation level (below lactate 2, pulse 110)
Compensation + Stabilization + Development
On the stationary bike (88 to 90 revs/minute) with compensation-stabilization- development level elements:

25 minutes of warm-up cycling at compensation level (below lactate 2, pulse 120)
10 minutes at stabilization level (between lactate 4 and 6, pulse 160)
5-minute break
2 times 6 minutes at development level (pulse of 175)
5-minute break
25 minutes of cool-down cycling at compensation level (pulse of 105)


Train Like a Turtle: How Do You Measure Up?
Hermann Maier
Height: 6 feet
Weight: 200 pounds
Age: 32
Hometown: Flachau, near Salzburg, Austria
Pedal Power: Can pedal at 300 watts while maintaining an aerobic pace for hours.
Cycling for Skiing: Spends 10 times as many hours on the bike as on the slopes.
Blood letting: In an eight-month training phase following his accident, Maier’s blood was drawn 1,106 times to check lactate levels. In that same time frame, he spent 212 hours in the saddle for the equivalent of 3,812 miles.
Claims to Fame

Four overall World Cup championships
Two Olympic gold medals at Nagano (despite crashing in the downhill, flying 100 yards at 70 miles per hour, and winding up on the cover of Time magazine)
47 World Cup victories, third only to Ingemar Stenmark (86) and Aberto Tomba (50)
In 2003, served as honorary starter of the Tour de France prologue, finishing just nine seconds behind the last pro.

[93legendti]

There was an interesting thread on Letsrun.com where Eric Heiden posted some things about doing one-legged squats with 150 lbs of weight strapped around his waist and doing 1 hour wall sits.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1056178&page=0

Before the 1980 Olympics it wasn't uncommon for us to do the following:

Find an old truck tire intertube and cut out about one third of the tire (where the valve is). Seal one end by tying and taping with duct tape.

Fill intertube with either lead shot or pennies until alomost full. Seal off other end. I made several sizes but the biggest ones I figured weighed about 150lbs.

Swing the anaconda on your lower back and assume the speed skating position. Do 1 x 100 squats with each leg. Do that 5 x. Then repeat with both legs. Going down to slightly below 90 degrees.

Right after these we would drop the tube then do 15 - 20 squat jumps as high as you can bringing your legs up to your chest a the peak.

Usually the last one you would fall down because you could not support your weight anymore.

Dang, those were the days...and that was only workout number 1. usually we did 3 workouts a day.

Weights
Dryland skating simulation (duckwalk for 10k)
cycling/running

repeat.

Eric

Typically we did these in a skating position keeping our backs parallel to the floor and keeping your chin in line with the knee of the leg doing the work. The resting leg was slightly behind with the toe just off the floor. Goal was to use all of one leg with no cheating. I would do them either near a wall or table in case I needed to touch something briefly for balance. Arms were usually on my back.

We would be so wasted after these I wasn't sure how I would climb up out of my basement. One flight of stairs was formidable...

Now ask me about the one time I did a wall sit for one hour! That was freakin nuts! I think it was a world record at the time.

Eric

We were highballs back then...

We were training at the OTC at the Springs and I think it was 1978 and a buddy challenged me to see if I could do a wall sit for an hour.

Basically in a sitting position with your back against the wall, legs at 90 degrees. Arms hanging down at your sides.

Legs were shaking like a banshee at the end but I did it. Some squirt supposedly bested my time of 60 minutes with 61, but he didn't have a witness... you know how that goes.

Eric

Wow, what a workout! Eric was also an alternate on the 1980 Olympic Cycling Road Team.


http://www.usbhof.com/inductees/1999.cfm

[andy mac]

The Hermann-a-tor is the hardest man in world sport and one of the most amazing athletes to have ever walked the earth.

Did you guys see his huge wreck at the nagano olympics? everyone thought he was dead. came back the next day and won the first of 2 gold medals. another reason they call him 'das monster'.

his background is amazing. at 15 he was told he wasn't going to make it as a ski racer so he became a bricklayer for a few years and didn't compete or train. he re entered ski racing on a dare from his buddies, kicked major arse and was asked to forerun a world cup race (go down before the race starts to check the course, timing etc.) his time would have placed him 12th even though he had inferior equipment, wasn't racing, being coached, have his skis properly prepped etc etc.

he was invited to the austrian championships even though he hadn't qualified and won them. he has been the lynchpin of the team since winning 4 overall world cup titles, 2 olympic gold medals, 3 world championships and bazillions of races.

can't wait to see he and bode go at it in turino. bring it on!

[William]

Wow, what a workout! Eric was also an alternate on the 1980 Olympic Cycling Road Team.




He won the U.S. professional cycling championship in 1985. And competed in the Tour de France in 1986.



William

[Dr. Doofus]

You can and should do hard sprints year-round. Right now, it's the only really "hard" riding I do. It did wonders for me last season and was a big part of me becoming competitive in a racing-crazy part of the country. See Mr. Lemond.

no you can't and no you shouldn't

get a power meter

you'll see that the power values for those sprints will fluctuate over the year -- meaning you're not improving in a steady and systematic progression. you'll see the same thing for any type of training. eight to twelve weeks is the maximum period to get progressive adaptation for any type of training stimulus for non-elite athletes (and some elites as well). you could do L4 ints for four months in a row, and after the first eight to twelve weeks, you would start to see fluctutaing power values for your SS heart rate. same for L3, or even L2 endurance training. that's why a periodized training year has a progressive increase in energy system stress in cycles....

world class sprinters (cycling, track, swimming, skating) stopped doing full effort sprints year round a long time ago for this reason....

mr. lemond's training advice needs to get out of the early 80s

[Dr. Doofus]

Hermann Maier’s Workout routine

Train Like a Turtle: How Do You Measure Up?
Hermann Maier
Height: 6 feet
Weight: 200 pounds
Age: 32
Hometown: Flachau, near Salzburg, Austria
Pedal Power: Can pedal at 300 watts while maintaining an aerobic pace for hours.

In 2003, served as honorary starter of the Tour de France prologue, finishing just nine seconds behind the last pro.


so herman the (ethnic) german* can hold about 3.2 watt/kg at an aerobic pace -- which would put him at the level of a strong 3.

however, this reminds doof of one of the many correct things he has written in the past, namely, that elite athletes in "non-endurance" sports have superior endurance abilities than you average USCF-type alleged endurance athlete.

doof got to see some Big 10 sprinters and FB types doing VO2 max tests in the 80s...sure enough, the dudes who had big muscles and ran :45 400m and such like had better VO2s than your skinny dude who was a 5:00 miler in HS. now, they couldn't run a 5:00 mile because they weren't trained for it, and over a mile the energy cost of those buff biceps would mean they would run slower than the predicted time for VO2 (science based models are just that...models) but its easy to see how in a sport like cycing, where the energy dynamics even out a bit as long as its flat, a speed and power athlete can adapt well.

a guy like Meir who has the "anaerobic" enzyme activity to smoke downhill and slalom at the Olympic level also has the power ceiling that would enable him to perform at a high (but not equally high) endurance level...like doof said a few months back about that hockey player...nature just ain't fair...the guys who were studs atthe 400 and 200m and played football could still kick the *** of the "endurance" nerd if they trained for it...all bets are off is the endurance nerd was not a nerd at all and was running untrained 4:50 miles in gym class....











*obscure car movie reference

[Too Tall]

The determination of these athletes is sooooo inspiring, man I love this sport.
BTW - Hermanators numbers work out to a middle of the road cat 3 in terms of watts / kg. Like Doofinator says it is about specificity....and having the genetics of an alien ;)
Roy, this month's check is in the mail. Funny.

[Climb01742]

so what are good watt/kg ratios? could you estimate, say, for cat. 3, cat. 2 and cat. 1? if memory serves, isn't the predicted threshold for a tour winner like 6.7 or something...can't quite remember what number ferrari (sp?) worked out...

[Dr. Doofus]

yo

j to tha osh-kosh

nobody talks about lactate threshold anymore. doof had an accusport, and its a nice toy and doof used it with his runners, but functional, real-world power data for a given duration is the way to go.

the keys for most training are

CP 30

CP 60

CP 120

CP = avg watts

number = time duration

a solid 3 can do 4 w/kg for 30

a tour winner?

7

then again

doof can hold 3.8 w/kg in his tempo HR range (CP 90, if you're really fit 120)

but is far from fully tightened and up to spec between the ears on race days

numbers and fitness matter

a good race brain and handling skills matter more

[iml]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doofus]no you can't and no you shouldn't

Well, I think I have some understanding of periodized training, as it's helped me sustain a pretty competitive "career" in pro/1/2 races, as well as off-road, along with my lawyer gig. And while I agree G Lemond's training methods seem a little dusty, year-round sprints have, I believe, been beneficial for my racing. To each their own.

[93legendti]

He won the U.S. professional cycling championship in 1985. And competed in the Tour de France in 1986.



William

I know, the point of my post was that same year he was doing the wall sits he was also a world class cyclist.

[flydhest]

doof got to see some Big 10 sprinters and FB types doing VO2 max tests in the 80s...sure enough, the dudes who had big muscles and ran :45 400m and such like had better VO2s than your skinny dude who was a 5:00 miler in HS. now, they couldn't run a 5:00 mile because they weren't trained for it, and over a mile the energy cost of those buff biceps would mean they would run slower than the predicted time for VO2 (science based models are just that...models) but its easy to see how in a sport like cycing, where the energy dynamics even out a bit as long as its flat, a speed and power athlete can adapt well.

a guy like Meir who has the "anaerobic" enzyme activity to smoke downhill and slalom at the Olympic level also has the power ceiling that would enable him to perform at a high (but not equally high) endurance level...like doof said a few months back about that hockey player...nature just ain't fair...the guys who were studs atthe 400 and 200m and played football could still kick the *** of the "endurance" nerd if they trained for it...all bets are off is the endurance nerd was not a nerd at all and was running untrained 4:50 miles in gym class....



Doof. You'd be surprised what a 400m runner does for a mile. I ran 400m hurdles in college, but I was slow at :53 (open 400 at :47) but warm up before practice was 6 miles at a 6:00 pace. Doing just one, 5:00 was not hard at all. 5:00 is a slow mile for any real runner. The guys on my team who were fast (not me) and did 10K would do 5:00 tempo miles as part of a work out.

[andy mac]

x-training...

An unexpected encounter

By Susan Westemeyer

The weather is forcing Fabian Wegmann to do his training on cross-country skis rather than the bike right now, but until recently he was on the road with training partners Michael Rich, Christian Müller and Paul Martens. And then they spotted something unexpected, as they rode near Merdingen (the former home of Jan Ullrich):

"We were followed by little, magenta-coloured figure on the horizon, which slowly came closer and closer. With an unbelievable show of force he joined us, and we though it was just a hobby rider who wanted to show us up. To our surprise it was Oscar Sevilla. We didn't believe our eyes at first. A lot of German pros fly south, but here was a Spaniard, accustomed to sun and warmth, under way alone in Baden at 0° He didn't become a regular in our group, though. He had been visiting the University of Freiburg Klinik and wanted to make the rounds of Ullrich's former training area." (www.fabianwegmann.de) T-Mobile reported that Sevilla was indeed at the Klinik for a week, receiving treatments for back problems stemming from his crash at the 2003 World's in Hamilton. "We are trying to correct an instability in the lower back through intensive physical therapy," said team doctor Stefan Vogt.

Sevilla trained daily in the weights room and received therapy twice a day while in Freiburg.

[andy mac]

I do this retarded thing to get stronger on the bike - I ride my bike.



from an olympic cyclist:

Cyclists of all levels may develop muscle imbalance issues and potential knee/ankle tracking problems and possible serious injuries if they only ride their bike throughout their season and career. Keep in mind that an average recreational racing cyclist training 12 hours a week, 40 weeks a year will turn the pedals more than 2.5 million times.

Simply put:
40 weeks x 12 hours x 60 min x 90 rpm equals over 2,592,000 repetitions in just one season!

That's a lot of repetitions of one motion! Promoting balance in mind and body through weight training, running, swimming, in-line skating, ball sports, yoga, walking, hiking, etc. can play a very important role towards the success of a cyclist.

[fiamme red]

from an olympic cyclist:

Cyclists of all levels may develop muscle imbalance issues and potential knee/ankle tracking problems and possible serious injuries if they only ride their bike throughout their season and career. Keep in mind that an average recreational racing cyclist training 12 hours a week, 40 weeks a year will turn the pedals more than 2.5 million times.

Simply put:
40 weeks x 12 hours x 60 min x 90 rpm equals over 2,592,000 repetitions in just one season!

That's a lot of repetitions of one motion! Promoting balance in mind and body through weight training, running, swimming, in-line skating, ball sports, yoga, walking, hiking, etc. can play a very important role towards the success of a cyclist.Very well said!

[Roy E. Munson]

Yes, yes, yes, I agree with you andy mac - seriously. Cross training, stretching, yoga - it will all make for a less injury prone and potentially mentally stronger, more focussed cyclist. However, the original question was "No gym, no weights, how do I get powerful?"

So if being a stronger cyclist is the main goal, the best way to increase power on the bike, is in my opinion, by doing strength work on the bike.

[Dr. Doofus]

Doof. You'd be surprised what a 400m runner does for a mile. I ran 400m hurdles in college, but I was slow at :53 (open 400 at :47) but warm up before practice was 6 miles at a 6:00 pace. Doing just one, 5:00 was not hard at all. 5:00 is a slow mile for any real runner. The guys on my team who were fast (not me) and did 10K would do 5:00 tempo miles as part of a work out.

doof coached track (did the 800/1600/3200 crew) for several years at a program that one a couple of state titles, so he feels ya, fly guy.

if a cat has the talent to run a sub :48 as a HS athlete, he should run sub 5:15 -- because as you said, in the real world 5:00 isn't fast, but it is a good standard for "competitive" (i.e., could score some points at a conference meet, but not make the state meet) for HS runners, roughly equivalent to Cat 3 ability in USCF.

sub 4:40 is fast

sub 4:30 is very fast

sub 4:15 and you're the real deal

[Dr. Doofus]

oh yeah

most of us have inflated perceptions of our ability

until we get that bubble burst

cat 2?

so what

better than the ol doof, but really, so what

go see the real crit riders, the pool hall hustlers of the cycling world

talents who by choice, accident, or double cross

ran afoul of the sanctioned hypocrites and theives who run belgian cycling

they swoop down to the local kermesse or cross race

prey on the young, the naive, and the foolish

fear them

and it doesn't matter how many orthodonists you beat in that office park

[Climb01742]

that's what's good (and humbling) about a power meter: it's absolutely objective. a watt is a watt. it ain't perecption. it's reality.

[1centaur]

"a watt is a watt. it ain't perecption. it's reality."

Well, I guess I can always blame calibration :)

[iml]

Doof - All I'm sayin' is, I find consistent sprints useful for me. I've done a year in Europe, been in plenty of kermesses, train with power metering, wouldn't knowingly race an orthodontist, and avoid office park crits because I'm a skinny stage racer-type. I know where I stand compared to the big boys, 'cause I ride with some regularly. I'm racing every month except January, so some sprinting seems to keep me sharp, that's all. Then again this thread was about "power," so perhaps that's not relevant. Anyhoo...

[Too Tall]

Yes it is relevant and variety in training is very important so your random sprints are good stuff of course...you knew that :) Also, just to make a point, sprints are short enough that you could do a bagful of them at any point of the training cycle and it will not cause you to peak....so go ahead bend the cranks have fun!

Climb-o, for regular schmoes like me 4 watts / kg is a good number for USCF cat 3/4s and masters to be competitive. Last yr. I peaked at 3.9w/kg and was STILL struggling in Masters 40+ racing arrrrrrrrrrrrrg. We have a pretty competitive masters scene :rolleyes:

[Tom]

and I realize that this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. You go to a gym, climb up on a machine and do stuff, you work something in isolation and one leg tells the other leg to do all the work. So you climb off the machine, pick up some weights and if you're minimally talented like me you get a little feedback but still one side does more work.

You do this exercise in the comfort of your own cellar and you realize your balance sucks big time, your foot's wobbling like a palsied drunk and your gut is struggling to hold you straight up and down. You're working everything as a system. And your right leg can't cheat because it'll get its turn to do all the work.

The next step is to dry land skate all over the park like some crazed Scandinavian until they call the white van.

This is what I'm looking for. Screw going out and spending money on weights or gyms. If I need more weight I'll carry the cans of cat litter when I do this stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah Munson, I'm going to ride my frigging bike. When the ice melts, I'll ride. My new plan is to break 6:30 for 127 miles, 6800 feet climbing, up to the farm sometime next May or early June.

Then I'll get into shape.

[Too Tall]

He!! yes Tom. Nice :)
The one leg squat thing really hits home this week. On tue. I installed almost 500sq ft. of pergo laminate flooring in our den. Now...I'm a TALL dewd and had to get up AND down to carefully fit each piece..tap tap tap...fit..fit..fit each friggin' piece and you know me, once I start a project I'm a maniac. I worked almost 10 hrs. straight. My legs are sooooo roasted now that I'm not sure I'll be able to do the 6 hr. endurance ride I've got planned for saturday :(

Hiedens, Pergos...it's all good.

[Climb01742]

and I realize that this is the kind of thing I'm looking for. You go to a gym, climb up on a machine and do stuff, you work something in isolation and one leg tells the other leg to do all the work. So you climb off the machine, pick up some weights and if you're minimally talented like me you get a little feedback but still one side does more work.

You do this exercise in the comfort of your own cellar and you realize your balance sucks big time, your foot's wobbling like a palsied drunk and your gut is struggling to hold you straight up and down. You're working everything as a system. And your right leg can't cheat because it'll get its turn to do all the work.

The next step is to dry land skate all over the park like some crazed Scandinavian until they call the white van.

This is what I'm looking for. Screw going out and spending money on weights or gyms. If I need more weight I'll carry the cans of cat litter when I do this stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah Munson, I'm going to ride my frigging bike. When the ice melts, I'll ride. My new plan is to break 6:30 for 127 miles, 6800 feet climbing, up to the farm sometime next May or early June.

Then I'll get into shape.

tom, something else i'd consider is getting a swiss ball (probably size 65). swiss balls are those big colorful rubber balls you see in gyms. for core strength, and for doing some amazingly effective low-weight weight lifting, they rock. check out: http://www.performbetter.com/detail.aspx_Q_ID_E_3538_A_CategoryID_E_231

[William]

...You do this exercise in the comfort of your own cellar and you realize your balance sucks big time, your foot's wobbling like a palsied drunk and your gut is struggling to hold you straight up and down. You're working everything as a system. And your right leg can't cheat because it'll get its turn to do all the work.

The next step is to dry land skate all over the park like some crazed Scandinavian until they call the white van.

This is what I'm looking for. Screw going out and spending money on weights or gyms. If I need more weight I'll carry the cans of cat litter when I do this stuff.



Then I'll get into shape.

Here are two more exercises along the same lines that you will both love and detest. ;)

"Those with no name". They are hard to explain, but Beungood will attest, they are a Muther Bleep bleeper to do and blast your quads, glutes, hams, and calves. It also develops and relies on balance so it induces your core muscles as well.

*Stand on one foot, (start with right side) and bring your left leg up like your trying to touch your chest with it. Your right arm should be up, left arm down, just like you do when your running.

*As you squat down on your right leg, shift your left leg down and then behind you, simultaneously shifting your arms (like your running) to help keep your balance. You should be in a semi squat on your right leg, left leg behind you like a speed skater. Try to squat down as far as you can, but don't let your left foot touch the ground.

*Press back up and shift your whole body back to the starting position. You should strive to be able to smoothly flow from start to finish working through a set of 15 to 20 reps on each side....and not touch your other foot to the ground.

Basically you look like your doing a squat on one leg, and your upper body is doing a cross between running and speed skating.

************************************************
And last, but by no means least, the dreaded Jumpies. Some of the Crew alum here likely know what these are.

Start with feet shoulder width apart. Squat down until your thighs are almost parallel to the ground. Then explosively jump up into the air as high as you can. Land with feet shoulder width apart and smoothly go back to the starting position, and then blast off the ground again. Do 8 to 10 sets of ten. Preferably after you've done the other exercises. This was always a fun one to do right after a hard session on the water.

You will both love me :banana: and hate me :butt: for these. ;)

William