About to build 3 pair of wheels...

[Gummee]

...and need to order spokes for em.

Anyone building with Wheelsmith any more? How do they rate compared to DT Swiss?

I know they *used* to be on par quality-wise, but these days?? IDK ...also used to be shinier in the sunlight.

How about DT Swiss Aerolights? Are they DT Swiss' answer to Sapim CX-Rays?

M

[oldpotatoe]

...and need to order spokes for em.

Anyone building with Wheelsmith any more? How do they rate compared to DT Swiss?

I know they *used* to be on par quality-wise, but these days?? IDK ...also used to be shinier in the sunlight.

How about DT Swiss Aerolights? Are they DT Swiss' answer to Sapim CX-Rays?

M

Seen more than a few WS spokes 'fail', as in when trying to increase tension, they give up and the rim moves in the opposite direction, like I was loosening, not tightening..I'm sure there is a term for this. DT, been building with them for 26 years, my favorite. I would like to try Sapim but no distributors stock all sizes, 1mm increments. I know, I know, but I like all sizes.

Aerolights, like CX-Ray, are thin spokes, ovalized, so you don't have to slot the hub. Like thin spokes, work well for fronts and LH rear, unless you are in the 'buck-25' range.

Expensive also, both, w/o any real advantage, IMHO, to wheel performance.

[spacemen3]

I've had good luck with Wheelsmith XL14 spokes (http://www.wheelsmith.com/spokes_xl14.html) on a number of builds.

[FlashUNC]

All my wheels have been built with Sapims, some Lasers and some Races. Big fan. Makes for a really nicely built wheel.

[bikinchris]

Wheelsmith is fine. No problems whatsoever.

[Mark McM]

Seen more than a few WS spokes 'fail', as in when trying to increase tension, they give up and the rim moves in the opposite direction, like I was loosening, not tightening..I'm sure there is a term for this.

The term is 'yielding' or 'plastic deformation', which refers to a permanent deformation of the spoke (the spoke stretched and has become permanently longer than before). Typically the yielding is in the form of necking, where a small section of the spoke shaft (usually in the swaged center section) has stretched and thinned out. If you look closely at a spoke after this occurs, you should be able to find the point that yielded. For interleaved spokes, this most common location is where the spokes cross and bend over each other.

In any case, Wheelsmith makes a variety of different spoke types/diameters, but it sounds like you are referring to their 2.0/1.5/2.0 XL14 spokes (equivalent to DT Revolutions or Sapim Lasers). I've experienced yielding with several of these super-thin spokes, not just Wheelsmith. However, Wheelsmith standard butted spokes (the DB14, which 2.0/1.7/2.0) are just as reliable as DT or Sapim standard butted spokes. I actually slightly prefer Wheelsmith butted spokes over DT butted spokes, since the swaged center section of the spoke is slightly thinner than on DT and Sapim butted spokes (which are 2.0/1.8/2.0). I've also found Wheelsmith alloy nipples slightly more reliable than DT alloy nipples (although all alloy nipples are less reliable than brass nipples).

Here's what Peter White (of Peter White Cycles) says about Wheelsmith spokes (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/spokes.asp):

I build wheels with Wheelsmith spokes. I mostly use the DB14 style which are 2.0mm at the ends and 1.7mm in the center. This makes for an extremely strong spoke that's light weight and flexible, which helps to prevent cracks in light weight aluminum rims. I used to build with DT but changed to Wheelsmith after DT changed their spoke designm in 2000. See this page for all the details. My DT spoke page.

Wheelsmith's quality control is excellent. I give my lifetime guarantee on wheels I build with Wheelsmith spokes. Wheelsmith spokes are made from stainless steel. Wheelsmith DB14, XL14 and DH13 spokes are all "butted" spokes. That means that the thickness of the spoke is greater at the end than in the middle. For instance, the DB14 measures 2mm at the ends and 1.7mm in the center of the spoke. Since spokes generally only break at the ends, that puts extra strength where you need it most. The thinner section in the middle saves weight, and allows the spoke to stretch slightly as the wheel is subjected to stress while riding, resulting in fewer cracks around the spoke holes in the rim, and less stress at the elbow of the spoke.

The transition between the spoke and the head on a Wheelsmith spoke is a bit different than on other brands of spokes. Instead of a sharp angle at the base of the head, the spoke has a smooth curved shape. The sharp angle on other spokes is a stress riser, and can cause the spoke head to pop off. I've never seen this happen with a Wheelsmith spoke, and I have seen it happen often with other brands. That's the primary reason I only build with Wheelsmith spokes.

[Gummee]

awsome

Thanks guys!

Wheelsmith it is!

M

[oldpotatoe]

The term is 'yielding' or 'plastic deformation', which refers to a permanent deformation of the spoke (the spoke stretched and has become permanently longer than before). Typically the yielding is in the form of necking, where a small section of the spoke shaft (usually in the swaged center section) has stretched and thinned out. If you look closely at a spoke after this occurs, you should be able to find the point that yielded. For interleaved spokes, this most common location is where the spokes cross and bend over each other.

In any case, Wheelsmith makes a variety of different spoke types/diameters, but it sounds like you are referring to their 2.0/1.5/2.0 XL14 spokes (equivalent to DT Revolutions or Sapim Lasers). I've experienced yielding with several of these super-thin spokes, not just Wheelsmith. However, Wheelsmith standard butted spokes (the DB14, which 2.0/1.7/2.0) are just as reliable as DT or Sapim standard butted spokes. I actually slightly prefer Wheelsmith butted spokes over DT butted spokes, since the swaged center section of the spoke is slightly thinner than on DT and Sapim butted spokes (which are 2.0/1.8/2.0). I've also found Wheelsmith alloy nipples slightly more reliable than DT alloy nipples (although all alloy nipples are less reliable than brass nipples).

Here's what Peter White (of Peter White Cycles) says about Wheelsmith spokes (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/spokes.asp):

Knew there was a term for it. I have seen some of the WS 1.7 center section 'yield' as well.

What Peter white said is a non issue, in my experience. I have used DT from 1985, thru today, thru the 'redesign', and again, non issue. But he says there is a huge problem with Campagnolo hubs and non OC rears also..I've built hundreds with no issues whatsoever.

I have a great spoke supplier, and good prices..think I'll stick with DT. I would like to use Sapim, but as I said...

[Gummee]

Got all of em ordered but 2 sizes. Grrr

Anyone have 12 x 267 mm and 24 x 287 mm Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7 spokes?

M

edited to add: who has a 20h front hub that looks like a D/A 7700? Need one of those too!

[giverdada]

I have 288mm in a set of 20 Sapim Laser, I think. Mis-ordered for a build... Let me know if you need them. And I have an old Dura-Ace 28-hole hub, the one with the threading on the end of the freehub body, in case you need one of those too.

As for spokes, I've been ordering most of mine lately from Brandon at bikehubstore.com. He's a good guy, ships to Canada, has a great selection of all kinds of spokes and rims. Just don't forget to buy nipples too; they aren't included!

Best of luck with your builds.

[ultraman6970]

Ultra never had problems with WS, sapim or dt butted spokes.

Had to fix one of my wheels with no bend bladed spokes and I put pillar, looks like the wheel is stiffer now, no complains.

The only spoke I would not recommend are the old double butted union spokes that come in a blue and red box, they are super shiny like chrome but probably before a year the spokes just give up one by one.

[sohasm67]

I really like Sapims

[Gummee]

Rims are here. Look like decent quality stuff. 24mm carbon tubulars, 38mm carbon tubulars, and 44mm carbon clinchers. Gonna be a 'if you can't ride fast, look good!' cross season.

Spokes are a county away, but are in the same state

Let the party begin!

M