Can someone explain Paul/Phil and NBC.

[MattTuck]

So, I'm watching feeds in the background, and I click on this one (http://www.hahabar.com/20130627/v-cycling-598971-51cb6fd0a28882.12577614.html) and it is indeed Paul and Phil commentating on the TT, but it is not NBC.

And they don't seem to be doing many commercials. How do they do essentially 2 shows at the same time? Do they have canned audio of them saying "and now we're going to break" that NBC producers play at random when they want to go to commercial right at a key point in the race?

Are Phil and Paul essentially commentating the whole race all the time and NBC only picks up the feed when they want?

[chengher87]

So, I'm watching feeds in the background, and I click on this one (http://www.hahabar.com/20130627/v-cycling-598971-51cb6fd0a28882.12577614.html) and it is indeed Paul and Phil commentating on the TT, but it is not NBC.

And they don't seem to be doing many commercials. How do they do essentially 2 shows at the same time? Do they have canned audio of them saying "and now we're going to break" that NBC producers play at random when they want to go to commercial right at a key point in the race?

Are Phil and Paul essentially commentating the whole race all the time and NBC only picks up the feed when they want?

I think they do. Once such instance is when Beloki and Armstrong were descending and Beloki crashed terribly. Liggett had the main call on CBS at the time, but you could hear a barely audible Sherwen yelling like crazy in the background. Granted, they probably do 50/50 tit-a-tat with each other and putting their own spin on things.

Is there a Eurosport feed out there that works?

[kramnnim]

Yeah, I'm listening to the Eurosport feed.

[shovelhd]

Phil cannot be explained.

[cp43]

I read an article a couple years ago where they talked about this. The announcers do commentate constantly, and they have little indicator lights telling them which networks/countries are picking up the feed at any given time. As they see lights go on and off, they change the riders they focus on, etc.

I wish I could remember where I read it.

Chris

[MattTuck]

Phil cannot be explained.

Perhaps I should have asked to explain their relationship with NBC. Because I just listened to them, uninterupted with ANY commercials, commentate on the TT. I didn't have a NBC Sports feed to compare to, but in my experience, the NBC Sports show has quite a bit of filler and commercials.

If I'm not mistaken, during the NBC show, they're always saying, "ok, now going to Bob Roll," or whatever clown they have... I'm curious now if NBC does something to their commentary, or they have canned segues for breaks and segments of the show.

I usually watch the eurosport feed, but the eurosport feeds from cyclingfans have been very laggy.

[cp43]

Found it:

http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/TourdeFrance/sherwen-and-liggett-commentary.html

The interview part of it is from 2009, so it may not be totally accurate anymore, but I'd bet that most of the logistics are still the same.

Chris

[54ny77]

Isn't some of the commentating for the Tour done in a trailer on a back lot up in Stamford? Or was that the Giro? I forget which big race and where I read that. Was kinda funny at the time, thinking how the announcers must try hard not to laugh at the circumstances. "And here we are among the backdrop of the spectacular & historic I-95, err, oops, I mean, Champs Elysee....."

[slidey]

I know that the Pot/Pan duo are aired on NBC, SBS, and ITV4 as well. So it stands to reason that the audio track at relevant points are edited by the networks, etc.

And yes, there was an ES feed for today's stage as well on cyclingfans.

[druptight]

I've been noticing as I watch each evening that many (but not all) of the commercial cuts on NBC seem to come without warning and very abruptly without any forewarning. So maybe they do just continue talking while NBC is at commercial. I think lots of the cuts to the dudes in the studio seem to come right before/after commercial breaks so no one is "throwing it" over to them.

[Black Dog]

Phil is long past his best before date. He lost his last bit of credibility when he did that rant defending Lance and calling it all a witch hunt of an innocent man.

Paul is ok...sort of.

[MattTuck]

Found it:

http://www.roadcycling.co.nz/TourdeFrance/sherwen-and-liggett-commentary.html

The interview part of it is from 2009, so it may not be totally accurate anymore, but I'd bet that most of the logistics are still the same.

Chris

Thanks for posting that. Very informative. I think I might start forgetting names of riders too, if I had to deal with all that.

I guess with so much going on, going to the Philisms and Paulisms is easier on them than trying to really talk about race strategy...

I prefer the Eurosport guys... they sound like they're having more of a conversation with each other and the audience. I really like that they now take questions off of twitter. So that they can atleast fill the boring sections with stuff someone in the audience wants to learn about.

[laupsi]

Sat and watched 5 stages from a feed from Holland while in Spain, couldn't understand a single word. This was way better than the Paul and Phil show I get back home.

[tiretrax]

They are definitely double billing. One of the forumites from down under said in a post that they are blessed with having to watch them, too. It also explains the comments from Paul that I hear occasionally that sound like they've been toned down by someone in the control booth. I noticed that several times yesterday on the a.m. coverage of Stage 10.

[Elefantino]

Phil cannot be explained.

POTD :banana:

[slidey]

One of ES' better features is that they call it as they see it, i.e. they have no reservations about calling a boring day, a boring day. I believe in yesterday's stage with about 25k to go when the coverage resumed after commericals, CK said something like:

In case you're just joining us, as you were....

So that they can atleast fill the boring sections with stuff someone in the audience wants to learn about.

[victoryfactory]

Phil and Paul are constantly criticized by people who
don't realize the complicated demanding dance they do as the main
English language cycling commentators. I think if more people saw
that, they might get more respect for what they do.
If you pay close attention you'll notice that Paul "disappears" from the
commentary periodically then Phil greats him when he "returns"
They have been doing this for years. If any of the other English speaking
race announcers were as good at pleasing the fans, riders, networks, advertisers
or teams they would have brought them in years ago.
Maybe they are grooming Bob Roll? he has improved.
The formula for sports broadcast teams has always been a pro with a
former athlete as color. This is what they do.
Hey, I make fun of those guys too sometimes but I don't think anybody
really does it better.
People hated Cosell and Rizutto too. They just get tired of the same
voice. Everyone praises Joe Buck and Tim McCarver and Vin Skully.
I find them all totally boring. But that's the game. As soon as an announcer
gets too clever half the people hate him and he's gone. Like Kornheiser
or Dennis Miller.

Finally, you try announcing a five or six hour bike race. See if you can
keep anyone's attention.

VF

[tiretrax]

Phil and Paul are constantly criticized by people who
don't realize the complicated demanding dance they do as the main
English language cycling commentators. I think if more people saw
that, they might get more respect for what they do.
If you pay close attention you'll notice that Paul "disappears" from the
commentary periodically then Phil greats him when he "returns"
They have been doing this for years. If any of the other English speaking
race announcers were as good at pleasing the fans, riders, networks
or teams they would have brought them in years ago.
Maybe they are grooming Bob Roll? he has improved.
The formula for sports broadcast teams has always been a pro with a
former athlete as color. This is what they do.
Hey, I make fun of those guys too sometimes but I don't think anybody
really does it better.
People hated Cosell and Rizutto too. They just get tired of the same
voice. Everyone praises Joe Buck and Tim McCarver and Vin Skully.
I find them all totally boring. But that's the game. As soon as an announcer
gets too clever half the people hate him and he's gone. Like Kornheiser
or Dennis Miller.

VF

Great summary. As was pointed out in another thread, they beat the heck out of John Tesch, et al. from the 1980's. My only desire is that they get a good lead commentator. Todd Harris bugs me much more than "Gentle" Liam or Craig Bummer. Monninger is a great addition, although he needs to get a personality. I guess his iceman riding persona was a reflection of who he is, not an affectation to throw his rivals.

[bambam]

The worst comentating I've heard is the thursday night NFL football games on the NFL network. I think 1/3 of the time its dead air which is nice because you can hear what the filed mics are picking up but bad for keeping intrest. During the games I am seeing no added value.

Ther is an art to this and hearing highlights an people making up there own catch phrases has really brought the quatilty down. At least thats how
I feel.

[PQJ]

The worst comentating I've heard is the thursday night NFL football games on the NFL network. I think 1/3 of the time its dead air which is nice because you can hear what the filed mics are picking up but bad for keeping intrest. During the games I am seeing no added value.

Ther is an art to this and hearing highlights an people making up there own catch phrases has really brought the quatilty down. At least thats how
I feel.

I take it you've never heard Mike Tirico call golf. That has to be the absolute worst commentating in the history of commentating.

[gavingould]

i usually catch the British Eurosport feed - i think it's a mix of Carlton Kirby, David Harmon, Brian Smith, and Sean Kelly. you can't mistake Sean Kelly, but so far the rest of them have been pretty interchangeable. they've definitely got their own catch phrases, but at least they usually correctly identify the riders.

Phil an Paul barely know what they're seeing half the time, and an additional guy (Steve Porino?) seems to have no cycling knowledge learning as he goes (I watched a couple stages with in-laws over the weekend on NBC)

it's definitely not an easy task, especially when you're trying to explain the hows and whys to people (Americans) who likely only watch the TdF because it's the biggest race. i know when i watch the Olympics, it's not because i'm interested or know squat about most of the sports there, but it is a spectacle and i can appreciate the athleticism.

NBC should have Charles Barkley do some TdF color commentary... "That sprint was turrible! Cavendish is a knucklehead" etc

[54ny77]

watching todd gogulski call a race reminds me of this guy from the movie, "office space."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRTmTgf7th0

[Steve530]

I got a subscription for the TdF from NBC Sports. I watch the replays at night and there are no commercials. So it is uninterrupted commentary with Phil and Paul.

[slidey]

Ok, so there are a hundred reasons why you can cut them slack...but given the ES team are consistently doing a better job at the same game...why should they (Pot&Pan) be cut any slack?

Moreover, even if they were the best, which they're not but lets assume in a world after the apocalypse that they are, why should they be cut any slack at all? Its their job, and they're being paid (rather handsomely, I presume). The least they can do is not resemble amnesiac guppy's that are aimlessly opening and closing their mouths.

Phil and Paul are constantly criticized by people who
don't realize the complicated demanding dance they do as the main
English language cycling commentators. I think if more people saw
that, they might get more respect for what they do.
If you pay close attention you'll notice that Paul "disappears" from the
commentary periodically then Phil greats him when he "returns"
They have been doing this for years. If any of the other English speaking
race announcers were as good at pleasing the fans, riders, networks, advertisers
or teams they would have brought them in years ago.
Maybe they are grooming Bob Roll? he has improved.
The formula for sports broadcast teams has always been a pro with a
former athlete as color. This is what they do.
Hey, I make fun of those guys too sometimes but I don't think anybody
really does it better.
People hated Cosell and Rizutto too. They just get tired of the same
voice. Everyone praises Joe Buck and Tim McCarver and Vin Skully.
I find them all totally boring. But that's the game. As soon as an announcer
gets too clever half the people hate him and he's gone. Like Kornheiser
or Dennis Miller.

Finally, you try announcing a five or six hour bike race. See if you can
keep anyone's attention.

VF

[PQJ]

Phil and Paul are constantly criticized by people who
don't realize the complicated demanding dance they do as the main
English language cycling commentators. I think if more people saw
that, they might get more respect for what they do.
If you pay close attention you'll notice that Paul "disappears" from the
commentary periodically then Phil greats him when he "returns"
They have been doing this for years. If any of the other English speaking
race announcers were as good at pleasing the fans, riders, networks, advertisers
or teams they would have brought them in years ago.
Maybe they are grooming Bob Roll? he has improved.
The formula for sports broadcast teams has always been a pro with a
former athlete as color. This is what they do.
Hey, I make fun of those guys too sometimes but I don't think anybody
really does it better.
People hated Cosell and Rizutto too. They just get tired of the same
voice. Everyone praises Joe Buck and Tim McCarver and Vin Skully.
I find them all totally boring. But that's the game. As soon as an announcer
gets too clever half the people hate him and he's gone. Like Kornheiser
or Dennis Miller.

Finally, you try announcing a five or six hour bike race. See if you can
keep anyone's attention.

VF

I used to think P&P were the greatest commentating duo in all of sport. Seriously. But then they started giving the one who shall not be named virtual blow jobs (can I say that here?). Constantly. And then they started making a few mistakes. And then plenty. It's to the point of ridiculous. Comes a time when things get old and tired. They're there. And it's time for some fresh blood. IMO, of course.

[54ny77]

throughout the 90's they were awesome.

and then they got the crazy eyes.

http://medias.omgif.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/crazy-pig.gif

I used to think P&P were the greatest commentating duo in all of sport. Seriously. But then they started giving the one who shall not be named virtual blow jobs (can I say that here?). Constantly. And then they started making a few mistakes. And then plenty. It's to the point of ridiculous. Comes a time when things get old and tired. They're there. And it's time for some fresh blood. IMO, of course.

[pbarry]

i usually catch the British Eurosport feed - i think it's a mix of Carlton Kirby, David Harmon, Brian Smith, and Sean Kelly. you can't mistake Sean Kelly, but so far the rest of them have been pretty interchangeable. they've definitely got their own catch phrases, but at least they usually correctly identify the riders.

Phil an Paul barely know what they're seeing half the time, and an additional guy (Steve Porino?) seems to have no cycling knowledge learning as he goes (I watched a couple stages with in-laws over the weekend on NBC)

it's definitely not an easy task, especially when you're trying to explain the hows and whys to people (Americans) who likely only watch the TdF because it's the biggest race. i know when i watch the Olympics, it's not because i'm interested or know squat about most of the sports there, but it is a spectacle and i can appreciate the athleticism.

NBC should have Charles Barkley do some TdF color commentary... "That sprint was turrible! Cavendish is a knucklehead" etc

Yes! Much better coverage. I would pay to hear Barkley cover cycling. ;)

Using this link with good results excepts for having to knock out the ads every 5-8 minutes: If you use full screen, the audio will continue, but the video will slow down/stop. ESC to the original size and click on the tiny "x" in the ad field blocking the video. You'll to get back to regular programming and you can resume full screen:
http://www.sportlemon.tv/20130627/vv51cc61931f6807.22400970-599163.html

[branflakes]

Yes! Much better coverage. I would pay to hear Barkley cover cycling. ;)

Using this link with good results excepts for having to knock out the ads every 5-8 minutes: If you use full screen, the audio will continue, but the video will slow down/stop. ESC to the original size and click on the tiny "x" in the ad field blocking the video. You'll to get back to regular programming and you can resume full screen:
http://www.sportlemon.tv/20130627/vv51cc61931f6807.22400970-599163.html
use adblock and pretty much eliminate those annoyances. the feeds for tdf are fairly inconsistent however. though my 7yo son figured out how to refresh the feeds today to watch the tt.

i have to say i was fairly impartial to cycling commentary until recently. most of the feeds for non-significant stage races are strictly euro feeds, so i've become accustomed to ES. after CK's call on stage 1 tdf i will probably never go back to anything non-ES. when i heard the replay of PaP i was utterly underwhelmed. i dread that all of steephill's highlights post stage are PaP commentary (ITV, SBS, NBC).

i'm not dogging PaP, they have some knowledge, but ES makes it interesting. i've had many a twitter question/comment read live, SK, while dry, is probably the best in the business, and CK continues to reel me in with his colorful calls and extreme knowledge of locale.

[pbarry]

use adblock and pretty much eliminate those annoyances. the feeds for tdf are fairly inconsistent however. though my 7yo son figured out how to refresh the feeds today to watch the tt.

Thanks for the adblock tip. Feeds have been 100% w/o it, (but with ads), no refreshing required. Does your 7-Y-O do remote consulting? Cheers

[branflakes]

Does your 7-Y-O do remote consulting? Cheers
no, but my 6yo does. he's much more tech savvy. he passed all the levels for his 7yo brother on angry birds star wars, after he did it on his own ipod first. you can facetime him if you need anything (though i'm sure he'll be busy building some out of this world something in minecraft). this may sound sarcastic, but i'm dead serious! he'll also work for nutella sandwiches. :)

[learningtoride]

.

[victoryfactory]

I used to think P&P were the greatest commentating duo in all of sport. Seriously. But then they started giving the one who shall not be named virtual blow jobs (can I say that here?). Constantly. And then they started making a few mistakes. And then plenty. It's to the point of ridiculous. Comes a time when things get old and tired. They're there. And it's time for some fresh blood. IMO, of course.

No doubt they stayed with him too long. They were dupes
like many others. They were in denial. They were worried about their
images and their jobs. Just like politicians, they felt they needed to be
careful about jumping off that bandwagon.
In the end, they did the professional thing. Because they are pros
and that's what they do. I suspect there are deep wounds there that
they both will carry.
They have come to terms and moved on. We need to also.
It's so easy for us to wail and fling oaths here but those guys were
thinking about protecting their careers.

[Jason E]

Aside from all of this, I would like to point out that it seems Phil got his medication right. He is noticeably more accurate and on the mark this year. You may not like his commentating, but having him NOT be in a deep state of impediment/dementia is refreshing.

I thought I noticed it, but my wife of all people pointed it out.

Am I nuts here?

[oldpotatoe]

Aside from all of this, I would like to point out that it seems Phil got his medication right. He is noticeably more accurate and on the mark this year. You may not like his commentating, but having him NOT be in a deep state of impediment/dementia is refreshing.

I thought I noticed it, but my wife of all people pointed it out.

Am I nuts here?

I think you are crude. I never thought of dementia as a joke. IMHO.

[Jason E]

This is not meant as crude. Those who take medications for disorders or ailments, allergies to dementia, often have to tweak their dosage, combinations, timing, etc...

The last few years it was very difficult to listen to him. A quick search of this forum would show many conversations about it each year during the Tour. At one point he was calling the names of riders that had retired.

I enjoy Phil and Paul as background noise to the race, I wish him no ill will, and have no reason to make a joke of any disorder.

IMHO, you are off the mark here. It was an honest sigh of relief that he is much more lucid. IMHO... Whatever.

[akelman]

he'll also work for nutella sandwiches.

Depending on the kind of bread, I will too. Of course I have no marketable skills, so caveat emptor.