View Full Version : Questions on Hi Profile carbon rims for daily use
sworcester
07-09-2013, 02:29 PM
(I guess daily really should be for the 3-4 times a week).
So I want to get some high profile clincher rims, like a Zipp 60 etc for daily use. I ride about 100 miles a week, no racing. I know I don't need them, just want them.
Would like an aluminum braking track so I can use them on my other bike without having to swap out pads (and less costly).
At 225# i need something a bit more stout. Looked at the Easton EC70 SL, Shimanos RS-50 or an American Classic, Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL.
Would like to be under $1000, but $1500 is the top. Would also like it to be wider so it is more comfy (is that an oxymoron here). Not real hilly here so a bit of extra weight won't bother too much. Would like a reputable manufacturer too as most of the Chinese no-names are untested and harder to get parts (spokes) for.
Am worried about what rim depth I can get away with and still have cross wind stability.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Bruce K
07-09-2013, 03:00 PM
If you are concerned about rider weight, then HED JET or JET Express wheels in a Stallion Build would be a good choice.
I would think 50mm or less as a rim depth would be reasonable. In higher cross winds, these can be a little tricky so plan accordingly.
BK
shovelhd
07-09-2013, 03:06 PM
Carbones, Jets. If you can find an old stock set of 2011 404's.
Rim shape is a big factor in handling.
miguel
07-09-2013, 03:16 PM
i think you are beyond the realm of justification as you have multiple concerns that you are purposefully ignoring. atmo buy whatever wheel you think is going to make you feel good, because you are obviously just looking for an excuse to drop some coin on a substandard wheel set all around.
"justification? substandard? what do you mean?!"
1. carbon
2. clincher
3. high spoke #/rider weight #225
4. commuter wheels
everyone has opinions on mr. peter white, i believe he's spot-on when talking about rider weight and rim selection. too lazy to search his site, but it's there. basically it's "if you weigh more than 160# you should not ride race rims".
However, maybe you should call Greg at Corsa Concepts. He's a Clydesdale and runs a carbon wheel business. He balked at me (175/6'1") asking for 32h rims and sold me some 28h ... alloy clincher training wheels.
Do they make 32h carbon rims? wouldn't the increased spoke count outweigh the advantage of a plastic rim .. literally? I mean if you want to look like a badass cat 6 crusher on some sweet zipps headed to the office where you can measure your cyclist cred by the amount of fairing in the rims then by all means, do that.
I've always been under the impression that clinchers were for training and tubies were for racing and the training wheels should be heavier anyway, therefore aluminum will work better for its intended purpose.
Do you have potholes where you live? another bike dork that not everyone agrees on, but as done some research, is jan heine and he has a pretty great article on tire size (http://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/tire-width-how-much-difference-do-a-few-millimeters-make/). I prefer to commute on 25 or 28mm tires because i am the fastest commute racer but i have to be aware of the lousy unimproved roads. If you want to check out wide rims your selection of china carbon or european approved china carbon is limited, however the aluminum market is growing. get some archetypes or c2 for the arrowhead shape, pacenti ?L23, tb-14, open sport for low profile shape.
atmo buy whatever wheel you think is going to make you feel good
carpediemracing
07-09-2013, 03:42 PM
Tall wheels are fun so more power to you. I hope that you get a pair of wheels that you enjoy.
Worry more about front wheel shape/height than the rear. The rear stabilizes you like a rudder. The front is what pulls you off line because it steers the bike inadvertently.
I have the Jets (6/9 F/R) as well as Ardennes rimmed Bastognes. I bought the Jets to train on (I have Stingers for racing), meaning I felt a 60mm front and 90mm rear was usable virtually all the time. I'd avoid using a 60mm front once I hit about 50 mph - at that point it's a bit sketchy, especially if I'm in gusty wind situations like drafting a truck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_o8CFeGG_g). <- that clip is made up of a number of rides - even there, when I really first started using the Jets, I basically ditched the Jet6 for most riding, selecting the Bastogne. I used the Jet9 rear because it's fun.
Within 6 months of buying the Jets I stopped using the front Jet6 (I honestly don't remember riding the wheel since mid-summer 2010), and I stopped using the rear Jet9 last year. They were much heavier and not as fun as the Bastognes.
To put rim heights in perspective I pretty much always use a Stinger 9 rear wheel (90mm tall) - like I said, a tall rear stabilizes you. I use either a Stinger 6 (60mm) or 7 (75mm) up front. I use the 7 most of the time. If the wind is really gusty I'll just use my training clincher front wheel. I've used the 7 in 30? mph gusts. It wasn't nice but I didn't expect such high winds and I didn't have the 6 with me.
If you get taller wheels try to get lighter ones. This would put you back in the carbon brake surface equation. If it's flatter (or you ride flatter roads - I know I do) then braking surface isn't as critical. That's most critical on descents, especially steep ones. In the CT area I was fine on DV46 (46mm carbon clinchers), and even on a 35 minute descent (Palomar Mountain, from the top to the real bottom) they were fine.
For me personally I'd want to get a Stinger type clincher (the yet-to-be-released Vanquish). They're supposed to be much lighter than the Jets mainly due to the carbon braking surfaces.
The wider rim should be more comfortable, especially if you can fit a wider tire on it. I'd recommend a 25c tire if possible - that will do a lot for comfort and wheel durability. In fact I'd recommend the 25c tires immediately, if they fit your bike. You'll notice a huge improvement in comfort as well as grip (more noticeable up front).
For height I think a 60mm front, even without the rounded profile, is usable in many/most situations. I used to train with a TriSpoke aka HED3 front clincher wheel (because I raced with a pair of tubular TriSpokes). They were okay in most conditions - I even rode in the edges of Hurricane George in 1999? in the Keys, in 50-80 mph winds, with a pair of TriSpokes (I was there for the Coconut Grove Crit so I only had my race wheels... the race was cancelled due to the hurricane).
If I could get a wide version of the DV46 or DV66 (66mm tall) clinchers I'd train on them all the time. That's what I had before I went to wide rims and they were my daily wheels. At the time I was 185-200 lbs and I rode the standard DV46c wheels with 16/20 spoke front/rear wheels. My teammate still rides them, and another teammate is using the DV46 tubulars I bought back in 2005.
The "cross" version of the Reynolds wheels have more spokes, like 20/24 or something like that. I don't know if there are stallion versions.
I have to go pack my car with all those Stingers - race tonight :)
*edit one more note - most full carbon rims, meaning structural carbon, not a fairing - are strong enough to hold their shape without spokes. (See Rim or Fairing (http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2009/08/equipment-rim-or-fairing.html)) Faired rims, typically aluminum, are typically not strong enough to hold their shape without spokes. This means an aluminum rim usually needs more spokes (i.e. 28h or 32h) or more mass (see the old Campy Shamals with 12h or Vento with 16h). With a carbon rim you'll need spokes only to hold the hub in place, not as much for strength. With aluminum rims, meaning most faired rims, you'll need more spokes or you'll have a much heavier rim.
Climb01742
07-09-2013, 03:49 PM
i have a pair of mavic carbones that i got years ago on the cheap to see how deeper profile rims rode. they are nice wheels, are 110% bullet proof and the alu brake strip works well in lousy weather. and i gave them to a friend because i rarely rode them. whatever aero advantage there might have been (at the speeds i typically ride) were far outweighed by how strong crosswinds made them a little twitchy. for the riding i do, regular low profile rims are the ticket.
so i'd just be honest with yourself about the bulk of the riding you do. is some twitchiness in the wind worth 'some' advantage, 'some' of the time. YMMV.
regularguy412
07-09-2013, 03:57 PM
I have a pair of Easton EC90SL tubulars that are 38 mm tall. Fastest wheels I've ever ridden, either up OR down a mountain. Sure, they're a compromise, but they are not very susceptible to cross winds and you still get a low spoke-count, aero-rim advantage. I've ridden mine approx. 3-4 times a week, now, for over two years. Only issues I've had are a couple of broken rear drive-side spokes -- which Easton replaced under warranty. Breakage-free now for over a year.
They're nice wheels and I've gotten spoiled. Now when I ride regular aluminum clinchers, I can really tell the difference. Can't comment on carbon brake track clinchers as I've never ridden any. The Eastons are designed with a heat dissipating carbon brake track. I've not noticed any substantial brake fade, but where I live there are no really long descents. Braking in the wet is good, but I try not to ride them in the wet to help protect the brake track from grit picked up from the road.
Mike in AR:beer:
sworcester
07-09-2013, 04:36 PM
....everyone has opinions on mr. peter white, i believe he's spot-on when talking about rider weight and rim selection. too lazy to search his site, but it's there. basically it's "if you weigh more than 160# you should not ride race rims".
I don't know who he is, so I can't search his site. And I don't commute on them. I work at home. I just like to ride my bike for fun and fitness and like to go fast when I can.
miguel
07-09-2013, 04:39 PM
I don't know who he is, so I can't search his site. And I don't commute on them. I work at home.
http://bit.ly/12k0O58
miguel
07-09-2013, 04:40 PM
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp
100/miles a week is a pretty standard commute distance atmo
zott28
07-09-2013, 05:02 PM
EC70 SL are built proof. I rode them while I was all the way up to 220lb and they never let me down. They are Aluminum rims with carbon faring, so that helps stay strong. Stiff, but a little heavier than a full carbon.
I was once going down, trying to unzip a stuck zipper no hands, and lost it. I was able to grab the bars while I was at almost a 45* angle to the ground, and pull myself back up with only breaking one spoke. I think a super light, or full carbon rim would have taco'd under the torque I applied.
I'm on Reynolds Carbon wheels now that I'm down to a svelte 190lb.
sworcester
07-09-2013, 06:45 PM
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wheels.asp
100/miles a week is a pretty standard commute distance atmo
I mostly agree with him, but based on his premise, no one over 160 LBS should race. Glad I never listened cause at 6'2" I would have a hell of a time getting to that level. In fact, best I recall was at my racing peak, I was 175.
firerescuefin
07-09-2013, 08:01 PM
everyone has opinions on mr. peter white, i believe he's spot-on when talking about rider weight and rim selection. too lazy to search his site, but it's there. basically it's "if you weigh more than 160# you should not ride race rims".
I don't know when he wrote this...but it's no longer true (i.e. antiquated pov)...There are stout "racing" wheel options that I would have no problems riding on a regular basis. To the OP...if they widen the grin...get you out more often...and cause you to smile both on and off the bike...then it's a no brainer. I would recommend running 25's on them....and before people go "you're giving up performance"...the trend on the pro tour is 25's..even on deep dish carbon....once you go, you won't go back.
pbarry
07-09-2013, 08:35 PM
everyone has opinions on mr. peter white, i believe he's spot-on when talking about rider weight and rim selection. too lazy to search his site, but it's there. basically it's "if you weigh more than 160# you should not ride race rims".
Yes they do. I worked part time in a shop with him long ago. Let's call his world bike-view: conservative. Happy to see he's found his niche.
Buy some nice wheels that fit your profile, and then ride them hard. :)
Scott Shire
07-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Miguel's take is pretty spot on.
If you still want them, put some 25s on these and don't look back. Wide rim, amazing warranty.
http://www.neuvationcycling.com/m/product/neuvation-c45-carbon-clincher-set-1515.htm
2wheelwill
07-09-2013, 09:18 PM
I second the mavic cosmic carbone recommendation. I have an older pair that are heavy as sin but bullet proof and fun to ride on the flats. I've always believed Mavic overbuilds their wheels which in your case may be a positive. I also recently purchased a pair of all carbon easton ec90 sl, and while I love the speed and weight, braking on carbon doesn't inspire confidence.
Find yourself a pair of carbones and enjoy the ride!
KidWok
07-09-2013, 09:42 PM
I bought a set of Shimano 7900 c35 clinchers on the forum last year for about a grand. They've been tremendous. Bearing quality is unmatched. Enough aero to look cool, not so much that I ever feel them in crosswinds. I'm 200-210 and they feel very solid compared to other low spoke count wheels I've used in the past. Alum braking surface, which I prefer. ~21mm width...not wide but not narrow. They have been on my Sunday bike so I haven't ridden them a ton, but I wouldn't hesitate to.
I also have a set of Rolf Prima Vigor RS, the light touring capable version of their alum clincher race wheel. It's the older one with narrow rims and White Ind. hubs. Very durable set of wheels. I had a couple of pairs of Trek era Rolf's that sucked...could not old a high tension build for more than a ride. Full disclosure that they are suppliers for my event, but not paying sponsors so I have no reason to endorse them and I bought my own wheels.
A bit off topic, but you owe it to yourself to check out tubeless wheels/tires. I'm running Ultegra tubeless with Hutchinson Secteur 28's at 80 psi front, 90 psi rear. Forget going after good looking wheels...try some good riding ones. For someone who is generally skeptical of "marketing bs", I'm sold that tubeless with some sealant is the best mix of performance and consumer friendly convenience.
I don't race, but I like nice equipment. I say buy what you want...whatever gets you excited to spend time on a bike. Have always gotten flak from racing friends..."why do you buy race gear when you don't race?" Don't mind them...just enjoy your bike and keep stimulating our economy.
Tai
miguel
07-09-2013, 10:38 PM
Dubbel
miguel
07-09-2013, 10:39 PM
Ok, let's talk about the figurative/literal elephant in the thread: it's much easier to buy a 1500g wheelset than it is to take 3lbs off yr body.
Ok
That's said
Get a BA training set
Train yr ass off
Also
Wth Scott neuvation gtfo
weiwentg
07-10-2013, 06:51 AM
My perspective: you may notice a minor difference in your ride with deep carbon clinchers. but you may not. and for sure, when the rims wear out, or you break a spoke or you damage the rim, you will notice your wallet getting a whole lot lighter. And at the same time, while I haven't kept up with carbon wheel pricing, I think you won't be getting really great carbon wheels at that price point, assuming you are looking at carbon (it's not clear at all from the wheels you've listed).
At the same time, I don't race and I do like to ride nice equipment. I dropped $900 on a set of Alchemy hubs laced to SL23 (alloy) rims. My perspective is that those rims are relatively reasonably priced. The hubs are worth keeping and they're well-supported by Alchemy, so I'm confident that I'll be able to keep the hubs for quite some time (in contrast, I've not had as much luck with American Classic and Speedcific hubs). But while they're nice and shiny and all, I was already pretty fast on my 32h wheels, and I doubt I could measure an objective difference. In fact, switching from mostly plain water to hydration products (using Skratch and Nuun) made an enormous difference, far more than any set of wheels would have made.
Your dollars, your call. But my vote is a set of semi-aero alloy clinchers on nice hubs.
sworcester
07-10-2013, 09:05 AM
Perhaps I have found my problem, I have G.A.S., Gear Acquisition Syndrome (http://www.f-stopeight.com/confessions-of-an-ex-gear-addict-how-buying-cameras-and-lenses-made-me-miserable-and-loose-thousands/)
Bruce K
07-10-2013, 09:09 AM
And that's a problem, how? ;)
BK
AngryScientist
07-10-2013, 09:13 AM
zipps with the alu brake track seem pretty well built, and have been holding up pretty solid for me.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XmbifvocMRw/Ub0Hft9bOeI/AAAAAAAABSY/Lyf39BEzcFQ/s640/100_0166.JPG
wooly
07-10-2013, 11:28 AM
zipps with the alu brake track seem pretty well built, and have been holding up pretty solid for me.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xmbifvocmrw/ub0hft9boei/aaaaaaaabsy/lyf39bezcfq/s640/100_0166.jpg
sick bike
rando
07-10-2013, 11:43 AM
Late to the party. Forget all about budget carbon wheels and get into disk covers. That leaves plenty of ceiling in your budget to have someone paint a majestic tapestry in motion on them. Pay some undernourished bike polo aficionado to do you up right.
Or follow the well broken trail of clydesdales into the carbon dust horizon.
:)
Hey OP: Mavic Cosmic Carbone SLR on sale for $1,500. Great deal
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-road-bike-root-category/2013-mavic-cosmic-carbone-slr-carbon-clincher-wheelset-32342.3772.0.NONAV.html
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