TDF Stage 9 Spoiler/Discussion Thread

[MattTuck]

Watch this stage.



100K to go and Froome is isolated. Still lots of climbing to go. Movistar looks incredibly strong.

[chengher87]

Did not expect this at all!!! I guess Quintana and Movistar knew exactly what they were doing.

With 80k to go.....Wow, when the attacks finally go, the fireworks will be let loose.

[soulspinner]

2000 plus mile race and Foome is the 3rd fastest in history up it (yesterday)and he wasted Porte to get there. This was the time to unhitch Porte and make Froome defend. Valverde told Contador what he was doing and went. If these two can unhitch Froome eventally it will be fun. Wonder whats stronger, Valverdes loyalty to team or his pal Bert............

[oldpotatoe]

2000 plus mile race and Foome is the 3rd fastest in history up it (yesterday)and he wasted Porte to get there. This was the time to unhitch Porte and make Froome defend. Valverde told Contador what he was doing and went. If these two can unhitch Froome eventally it will be fun. Wonder whats stronger, Valverdes loyalty to team or his pal Bert............

The one that signs his paycheck is my guess.

[jr59]

Wow, the dope Sky is taking must not be working so well today!

So much for that idea!

[soulspinner]

The one that signs his paycheck is my guess.

Deals made on the road?:rolleyes:

[flydhest]

Wow, the dope Sky is taking must not be working so well today!

So much for that idea!

I don't see how one draws that conclusion. Froome is retry comfortable and wasn't there a crash that caused the selection? I missed it, so am trying to infer from the replays.

[jr59]

I don't see how one draws that conclusion. Froome is retry comfortable and wasn't there a crash that caused the selection? I missed it, so am trying to infer from the replays.

Besides Froome, there has been zero Sky riders in the front group. Just Froome. Porte is about 11 mins back.

That does not sound like team doping to me. Because what doping does more than anything, is allow you to recover quickly. So far besides Froome that has not happened today!

[Peter P.]

Watch the right hand side of the road as the yellow jersey group rides through at roughly 7.4km to go-some meathead moons the group!

[Wilkinson4]

Man Porte looks totally cooked. Totally shredded himself yesterday. I think Froom will win it, but it will be an interesting fight for the next 2 spots.

miKE

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

And (most of) Sky goes pop.

[SolidSnake03]

....so they look human? :eek: Thought that wasn't the case

[MattTuck]

Well, in the end they basically just unhinged Porte. I would not consider that a success.... given how many Movistar riders were in that lead group with Froome.

Seems that they were either unable or unwilling to really test Froome on the final climb... the various digs from Movistar were short, and called off as soon as Froome started to bridge up.

This isn't a horrible strategy... given how far the finish was from the top of the climb... still, how often are you going to have Froome isolated and the terrain to possibly put time into him.


May not get another chance to use this, so here is Adele singing Skyfall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epC1FS1WOHY)

[alessandro]

Today was why I watch bike racing. Ok, so it didn't change much on the GC, but what a great stage win for the young Irishman.

[chengher87]

1. Either Sky played brilliant tactics or just got lucky. Porte didn't really look that cooked to me and it seemed like he made no effort to latch back on to any group in front of him. I also make the assumption that the rest of Sky did so in the fragmented packs behind. Froome never really looked in difficulty, hell, he basically spinned his way to Quitana on every attack. Sky got their entire team (save Froome) to save energy today, rest day tomorrow and flat stages for a while. Which means that the Sky train will be well rested for the onslaught of mountain stages in the final week.

2. Why didn't any of the GC guys do anything? Froome is isolated, you gotta attack knowing that he has to chase down every attack. Put in a dig at least. Quintana went three times and everyone else went...zero. Finally riding clean, the nasty crash in the first stage, whatever it is, Contador doesn't look good. Kreuzinger has looked like the strongest Saxo rider in the Tour so far.

3. Schleck is at the head of the peloton on another mountain stage?! I think that is the biggest surprise of the Tour. I was hoping he'd put a dig in at some point, but the video of his descent showed why it would have been in vain.

4. What crappened to Hesjedal? Pinot? De Gendt? And it seems like Europcar have no designs for GC hopes. They need more sponsors and stage wins, KOM jersey and probably TV time are their goals this year in order to secure more sponsors. Why else are they wasting Rolland in early breakaways to eat up KOM points.

5. I actually like Movistar's tactics today. Shred the peloton, you have the rest day and flat stages ahead to recover. It's also good that Quintana's main goal is the white jersey. He seems to be free to attack and go off on his own (until Valverde is in yellow and must be defended). You've got the rest day and flat stages next week, fire all your bullets today! Too bad it didn't work. Valverde should have put in a dig.

[ultraman6970]

THe spanish armada did not have it for the one - two punch... was the ideal scenario for a one - two between quintana and valverde and maybe the 3rd and final punch coming from contador with a team mate. But if didnt happen was because they couldn't. Was so weird to see valverde taking froome at his wheel... own agendas.

Great stage never imagine this was going to happen anyways. Hope contador and rodriguez get their legs back, because if something like this happens again in the last week the punches will go left and right just like in the vuelta last year.

1st time I like what darn AS did. He sucked it up and stayed there, looks like finally he is growing some hair in his chest.

[chengher87]

Also, is anyone else having issues with the Eurosport feed? Mine keeps crashing every few kilometers. Listening to Kirby start yelling only for the video to crash and having to reload was not fun.

[malcolm]

Besides Froome, there has been zero Sky riders in the front group. Just Froome. Porte is about 11 mins back.

That does not sound like team doping to me. Because what doping does more than anything, is allow you to recover quickly. So far besides Froome that has not happened today!

Part of doping is certainly about recovery but don't think for a minute that increased hemoglobin from blood boosters, transfused or marrow stimulators don't increase performance. More hemoglobin, more O2 carrying capacity more performance.

Doping or not, who knows. I think a 3rd fastest among known dopers has to be suspect given the history of the sport.

[jmpsmash]

Eurosport just aired a short (1 min or so) interview with Froome.

He admited that it was one of his hardest day on the bike and he also acknowledged and understand his teammates' performance due to their previous day's effort.

What a relief to have him as the leader after many years of cocky and arrogant LA.

[regularguy412]

Also, is anyone else having issues with the Eurosport feed? Mine keeps crashing every few kilometers. Listening to Kirby start yelling only for the video to crash and having to reload was not fun.

Yah. Same here. Seemed to happen 'just' when something big was about to occur on the last climb. I did get reconnected once very quickly and saw the multiple windows from the re-feeder's desktop. I'm pretty sure what was happening was that near the end, many people were tapping into the stream and the computers just got overwhelmed.

MIke in AR:

[T.J.]

1st time I like what darn AS did. He sucked it up and stayed there, looks like finally he is growing some hair in his chest.

Being on the podium a couple times didn't put hair on his chest?

[firerescuefin]

Being on the podium a couple times didn't put hair on his chest?

Agreed...although I do appreciate the fact that he's letting his legs do the talking rather being a little beeatch. As a potentially world class antagonist, I welcome him back with open arms:)

[harlond]

1. Either Sky played brilliant tactics or just got lucky. Porte didn't really look that cooked to me and it seemed like he made no effort to latch back on to any group in front of him. I also make the assumption that the rest of Sky did so in the fragmented packs behind. Froome never really looked in difficulty, hell, he basically spinned his way to Quitana on every attack. Sky got their entire team (save Froome) to save energy today, rest day tomorrow and flat stages for a while. Which means that the Sky train will be well rested for the onslaught of mountain stages in the final week.Kiriyenka evidently finished hors delais. He will be missed. That, plus it's never a good idea for your leader to be isolated for 100km, inclines me against the brilliant tactics possibility.

[jpw]

Movistar MUST be on drugs!:rolleyes:

[CPP]

Team Sky is bluffing

[CunegoFan]

Movistar MUST be on drugs!:rolleyes:

Did they blast up the climb with the third fastest time in history, even faster than a super doped Armstrong?

:rolleyes:

Team Sky is bluffing

I don't know about the other guys but Porte was. He needs to take a few lessons from Voeckler to learn how to make it look good when the cameras are on him. Ryder was suffering, Porte not so much.

[ultraman6970]

What fire said about being a biatchhhchchchchc...

Well probably as like 90% of the team, nobody has contracts signed but FC, they need to shine or they wont get a job in the new team. So probably he thought it better.

Long way to paris anyways.

Being on the podium a couple times didn't put hair on his chest?

[jr59]

Doping or not, who knows. I think a 3rd fastest among known dopers has to be suspect given the history of the sport.

Ok, but you also need to think of when that climb was it the tours before. Here I will give you a hint. Not in the first week. That needs to be taken in as well.

The point I was making was as a team. Sky didn't look all that superhuman after a very hard stage the day before. So much for your team doping ideas!

[CunegoFan]

Ok, but you also need to think of when that climb was it the tours before. Here I will give you a hint. Not in the first week. That needs to be taken in as well.


Does it? How much of a decrease in performance did Armstrong have in the second week of a Tour compared to the first. His hemoglobin mass did not go down. Judging by Landis' numbers in 2006, the blood dopers could increase their hemoglobin during the Tour. Armstrong was using testosterone and HGH to recover day to day, and was perfectly capable of putting out crushing time trials in the last week of the Tour. On top of that, riders usually target their peak for the last weak and they are lighter by a kilo or three. Where is your evidence that Armstrong's day 14 performance was worse than his day 8 performance, especially since he would have had a blood transfusion between those days. In Armstrong's case he likely timed his blood transfusions for maximum effect on the Tour's few critical stages, like stages with mountain top finishes.

Also, 2001 was an easier stage than 2013 and if the flattish finale with a head wind is taken out, Froome did a better time than Armstrong and Laiseka in 2001, which would give Froome the fastest time ever. If you can rationalize that without doping then be my guest.

[ultraman6970]

There's no test for hakuna matata yet :)

[jr59]

Does it? How much of a decrease in performance did Armstrong have in the second week of a Tour compared to the first. His hemoglobin mass did not go down. Judging by Landis' numbers in 2006, the blood dopers could increase their hemoglobin during the Tour. Armstrong was using testosterone and HGH to recover day to day, and was perfectly capable of putting out crushing time trials in the last week of the Tour. On top of that, riders usually target their peak for the last weak and they are lighter by a kilo or three. Where is your evidence that Armstrong's day 14 performance was worse than his day 8 performance, especially since he would have had a blood transfusion between those days. In Armstrong's case he likely timed his blood transfusions for maximum effect on the Tour's few critical stages, like stages with mountain top finishes.

Also, 2001 was an easier stage than 2013 and if the flattish finale with a head wind is taken out, Froome did a better time than Armstrong and Laiseka in 2001, which would give Froome the fastest time ever. If you can rationalize that without doping then be my guest.


Seems we have a moving target here. Yesterday, all I read here, was how Sky as a team was doped like no other. Now it's just Froome? What happen to Porte, and the other Sky riders that rode off the front yesterday? No they weren't bluffing. You don't go down @ 18:30 and 48:42 and bluff.

I'm not about to dispute that ANY of these riders are not doped. I think they are and have been for many, many years. Since 1910 in fact.

You give opinion as fact, as in LA was doing this and that while in fact how it was done is still somewhat a question. You can take whatever you wish as fact. That does not make it so. No one KNOWS, with the exception of a very few, what and when was taken.

The overall point is Porte blew up today and fell so far down the board he will not contend at all. Maybe a stage win. Doped riders as you suggest, are not likely to do such a thing. You don't bluff by going from second overall to 18+down, if you can help it.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the tour! I have made my point!

[cfox]

I don't know about the other guys but Porte was. He needs to take a few lessons from Voeckler to learn how to make it look good when the cameras are on him. Ryder was suffering, Porte not so much.

Team car: "Hey Richie, we need you to get dropped so Froomie can be isolated with 18 spaniards for the last 100k, just to make it look like we're not doping."

You really think that was some intentional bluff? If so, you're obsession with doping has clouded your judgement*


*I think sky is on something, too, but to think what happened today was some PR bluff is absurd. Richie rode like a machine yesterday; doped riders get dropped too.

[CunegoFan]

Team car: "Hey Richie, we need you to get dropped so Froomie can be isolated with 18 spaniards for the last 100k, just to make it look like we're not doping."


I think he messed up. He dropped back, got gapped, then Movistar started hammering at the front. He tried to bridge, chased for 40 Ks, maintaining a pretty amazing difference of roughly two minutes, then called it day when he decided he was not going to make it. The others took an early rest day. There is something wrong with Kiryienka; he looked like crap on stage 8.

Or let's take Sean Kelly's take on it. He said it was not believable that the whole team would collapse like that after being so dominant yesterday. Kelly always calls a race correctly.

[firerescuefin]

I don't pretend to be a Director Sportif...but is it unreasonable to think that if Froome felt he was on a decent day that they would basically sit the team on the bench today. After he won yesterday, I said to a friend "they're gonna get worked the next 2 weeks"....they didn't look to be hurting today...anyhow, just a thought (that some others have inferred as well)

[malcolm]

Ok, but you also need to think of when that climb was it the tours before. Here I will give you a hint. Not in the first week. That needs to be taken in as well.

The point I was making was as a team. Sky didn't look all that superhuman after a very hard stage the day before. So much for your team doping ideas!

Did you read my post? I said who knows. Given the history I still say you have to be suspicious. I've always thought most were doped and still think most will do whatever they think they can get away with.

You can still pop or have a bad day even if you are doping. Landis had a terrible day then an epic one the next and trust me a single testosterone patch overnight didn't accomplish that.

[MattTuck]

Anyone know what the elimination time was for this stage?

After the Ted King situation, I have a strong desire that the autobus finishes outside the elimination time and the race jury has to expose its hypocrisy.

[slidey]

I just got done watching today's stage and if anything the suspicion of doping within Sky is now even stronger in my mind. Two of the major features of this farcical stage that stood out for me were:

1. Froome left to his own devices for around 120k. Fends off attack after attack from Quintana on the mountains, and still retains yellow.

2. Every member of a pro-cycling team winding down its operations within 40k of day's riding, bar its team-leader; who coincidentally happens to be on Yellow.

The above set of circumstances are bloody hilarious, so much so that I've got tears in my eyes just from laughing whilst thinking back about the stage. :p

Let us all take a step back and see what the sum of these past 2 stages is:
Stage 8: Froome takes Yellow, and the Sky team's performance raises a lot of eyebrows.
Stage 9: Froome stays in Yellow, and Sky team's performance is laughably poor.
As far as team's goals go: Nothing changes!

Dope on, Sky!

[cfox]

I just got done watching today's stage and if anything the suspicion of doping within Sky is now even stronger in my mind. Two of the major features of this farcical stage that stood out for me were:

1. Froome left to his own devices for around 120k. Fends off attack after attack from Quintana on the mountains, and still retains yellow.

2. Every member of a pro-cycling team winding down its operations within 40k of day's riding, bar its team-leader; who coincidentally happens to be on Yellow.

The above set of circumstances are bloody hilarious, so much so that I've got tears in my eyes just from laughing whilst thinking back about the stage. :p

Let us all take a step back and see what the sum of these past 2 stages is:
Stage 8: Froome takes Yellow, and the Sky team's performance raises a lot of eyebrows.
Stage 9: Froome stays in Yellow, and Sky team's performance is laughably poor.
As far as team's goals go: Nothing changes!

Dope on, Sky!

You guys are hilarious. I swear if Sky loses the TDF somehow, you'll say it's further evidence of doping. You know, they lost it on purpose to quiet down the doping talk. Doped teams have bad days too, it doesn't always have to be a part in some evil plan.

[1centaur]

First, I did not think it was that exciting a stage. Yes, better that it was not a Sky train for hours, but other than hoping for a Froome mechanical there was little anybody could do to change the yellow jersey given the 30k down to the finish. I hate that stage profile, and the hype (oooh, all those tough mountains) that accompanies it.

Speaking of hype, I have sometimes thought professional cycling seemed a little like professional wrestling. Everybody knows pro wrestling is fake, but some of the fans don't. Heroes lose when they should win and are threatened with almost losses just to keep fan suspense going. Having social media go mental about doping and then having Porte et al completely fail to be competitive on day two of two tough days when everybody else (who suffered more on day one) did just fine seems, uh, odd. Froome's complete ease at chasing down anybody at any time reminded me of only one cyclist. But hey, anything's possible.

[ultraman6970]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/35621409.jpg

[rustychisel]

.

Speaking of hype, I have sometimes thought professional cycling seemed a little like professional wrestling. Everybody knows pro wrestling is fake, but some of the fans don't. Heroes lose when they should win and are threatened with almost losses just to keep fan suspense going. Having social media go mental about doping and then having Porte et al completely fail to be competitive on day two of two tough days when everybody else (who suffered more on day one) did just fine seems, uh, odd. Froome's complete ease at chasing down anybody at any time reminded me of only one cyclist. But hey, anything's possible.

You're a carbon loving lifeform, I've come to the opinion that Froome is not. I'm pretty sure he's an alien. Either that or Michael Rasmussen' kid brother.

Anyway, without being specifically critical of you, I very much dislike the wrestling analogy. I detest the deceit in doping, will never agree that making it allowable evens the field, yada yada, but the truth for me is that mountains are still mountains. Ventoux, whether you're doped or not, is still the toughest climb of them all.

Disclaimer - don't like Froome (really?), don't like Sagan (killer pimp) and still undecided about Porte. As to the idea he threw the stage by 18min.... that's just Elvis trying to throw you off the scent, because I know he's driving one of the team cars. C'mon, Sky had the reality of a 1-2 podium and they asked Richie to play another game???? Nup.

[pbarry]

Froome had a great seat today with Movie Star controlling thigss. He sat on and made a few counters when Quintana made light moves. He did not go with Rogers who made a strong move, but didn't need to. I think we might be seeing a mostly clean Tour. No one made an epic attack and stayed away for the day. Sky lost one, and has one remaining in the top ten, and Movie Star continued with two, with some time gained.

[Shortsocks]

I'm just hoping at the end of stage 18, nairo quintana beats everyone down, crosses the finish line, gets off his bike and unzips his full body suit to reveal that he's actually Marco Pantani. Then Tom Boonen jumps out of the Crowd pulls out an eight ball of coke puts it, with a large mirror, on the ground and both he and Marco do a massive line in the shape of Tom Simpson's head.

Now that would be a stage to remember. :banana:

[rustychisel]

Yeah, that could happen. :eek:

And Richie Porte could make up 18min in the ITT...:confused:

[merlincustom1]

Anybody know Froome's VO2 max? If it were high, seems like Sky might trumpet it to quell the doping rumors.

[jpw]

Movistar is a Spanish sponsor. Yesterday was entirely an exercise in advertising as close to the Spanish border as this year's race will get.

[Rueda Tropical]

I think the wrestling analogy is fair. Yes doped or not it takes talent, training and heart to be a pro cyclist. But you could say the same about pro wrestlers. To put on the show they put on they risk crippling injury, must have great athletic skills and need to endure more then a little pain and suffering. But the fact that the whole thing is staged entertainment makes it completely uninteresting to watch.

In the end once you know whats going on behind the curtain the spectacle loses its real appeal. It's hard to get excited about an incredible performance when you just assume it was the dope. It's tough to cheer for someone who is probably cheating. I tune in for the sprints now and contested last kilometers. Watching someone rocket past the field on a climb used to be a thrill. Now, not so much.

Either a sport has to keep the cheating invisible to fans or it has to have an effective policing program. Cycling has done neither. I wonder how long it can survive if it doesn't change in some fundamental way.

[shovelhd]

Each time Froome was attacked, he was allowed to recover. No tag team attacks. That's what it would have taken to unhinge him.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

IMO-

Quintana was testing Froome. He hit Froome, Froome stayed with him, Quintana hit him again, Froome stayed with him again, after the third attack, was obvious he had the legs, and was not hurting, so they all stayed together. If Froome faltered when Quintana hit him, Valverde woulda been gone.

[PQJ]

I think the wrestling analogy is fair. Yes doped or not it takes talent, training and heart to be a pro cyclist. But you could say the same about pro wrestlers. To put on the show they put on they risk crippling injury, must have great athletic skills and need to endure more then a little pain and suffering. But the fact that the whole thing is staged entertainment makes it completely uninteresting to watch.

In the end once you know whats going on behind the curtain the spectacle loses its real appeal. It's hard to get excited about an incredible performance when you just assume it was the dope. It's tough to cheer for someone who is probably cheating. I tune in for the sprints now and contested last kilometers. Watching someone rocket past the field on a climb used to be a thrill. Now, not so much.

Either a sport has to keep the cheating invisible to fans or it has to have an effective policing program. Cycling has done neither. I wonder how long it can survive if it doesn't change in some fundamental way.

Well said and my sentiments exactly. Froome up to Aix 3 reminded me too much of Pantani and Armstrong and Contador (of old) and Ricco and Rasmussen and all the rest. As a South African, I almost always root for the South Africans or South African borns (Rory Sabbatini being the only exception), and Froome seems like a nice enough fellow. But I'm not buying what he is selling and if he is in fact on something, I hope he gets busted.

[jr59]

I think the wrestling analogy is fair. Yes doped or not it takes talent, training and heart to be a pro cyclist. But you could say the same about pro wrestlers. To put on the show they put on they risk crippling injury, must have great athletic skills and need to endure more then a little pain and suffering. But the fact that the whole thing is staged entertainment makes it completely uninteresting to watch.

In the end once you know whats going on behind the curtain the spectacle loses its real appeal. It's hard to get excited about an incredible performance when you just assume it was the dope. It's tough to cheer for someone who is probably cheating. I tune in for the sprints now and contested last kilometers. Watching someone rocket past the field on a climb used to be a thrill. Now, not so much.

Either a sport has to keep the cheating invisible to fans or it has to have an effective policing program. Cycling has done neither. I wonder how long it can survive if it doesn't change in some fundamental way.


Not sure i understand this at all. Are you claiming that everybody in the TDF is not trying to win?
In wrestling the winner is already decided before the match. Is this the case in the tour? Doping or not, I pretty sure everybody that signs in is doing their best to either win, win the stage, or help his team win or win the stage. I guess you could add going on the break early and getting TV time for your sponsors. But all trying to do their best.

With wrestling this isn't the case at all. It's a script. It's written and followed.
The people that put it on knows who is going to win, and who is going to be the bad guy and who is the hero. Is this the case with the tour? I sure hope not. Doping or not, or every one doping, or any combo of these, doesn't pre-determine the winner, as in wrestling.

Like in any other sport, doing roids will not make you great. You could do all the drugs in the world and still not ride like that, or hit over 60 HR in baseball, or anywhere close. It takes a great deal of talent.

I pretty sure, that all want to do the best they can.

[Rada]

So let me get this straight. Sky is doped to the gills for the last two seasons on some sort of new wonder drug that is undetectable and apparently unavailable to the rest of the peloton, which by the way is racing clean?

[Rueda Tropical]

So let me get this straight. Sky is doped to the gills for the last two seasons on some sort of new wonder drug that is undetectable and apparently unavailable to the rest of the peloton, which by the way is racing clean?

No, they are probably all doped. Sky looks to have a better program right now and it looks like its an organized team not an individual program. Contador and Schleck may have had to cut back as Contador has been busted and Andys brother was busted. Valverde also has been busted.

[Rada]

But what kind of team program could they be on that can not be detected and is apparently unknown to all other teams? Did they find some mad chemist who developed something that is new?

[Rueda Tropical]

With wrestling this isn't the case at all. It's a script. It's written and followed.

The script that proc cycling is following is not the one laid out in the rules of the sport. The UCI seems to feel the need to put on a show requires cheating. So it's built a system for systematic cheating.

I'd say in the Armstrong days there was a most definitely an agreed upon script. LA was the protected rider in the peloton. Got a pass his first tour after testing positive. So no -other riders didn't take a pre-agreed upon fall, but if they tried to dope at LA's level they would get busted and shown the door.

[Rueda Tropical]

But what kind of team program could they be on that can not be detected and is apparently unknown to all other teams? Did they find some mad chemist who developed something that is new?

Hard to believe you have to ask that question after the revelations from the Armstrong investigation. It's not 100% certain they are cheating but based on the numbers Froome posted and the history of cycling it would be a miracle if they aren't.

[Rueda Tropical]

How could team SKY, Movistar or any other team or rider possibly get away with doping without being caught? It is clear after the revelations of the last year that the tests are set up to be beaten by anyone with resources and a smart enough medical team.

Contador made a small error that would not have been detected by most labs. A lot of Fuentes clients never actually tested positive they got busted because he got busted. Until they set up a testing system that is designed to prevent doping nothing will change.

[Rada]

Sky might be doping, just curious as to what they could be doing that no one else can. To think that only one team has the resources or will to cheat if they can get away with it is naive no?

[jr59]

Until they set up a testing system that is designed to prevent doping nothing will change.

Not possible! The dope will ALWAYS be ahead of the test!

If you think not, I would suggest that you find something else to watch/follow.
It won't be pro sports! They may be silent about it, because by the time the public hears of it and they figure out a test for it, it is OLD, OLD news.

Just look at BALCO. Do you think that is the only lab working on this kind of thing? I would bet that there are 100,000 labs across the world that are working on this kind of thing. More than likely not for sports, but anti-aging, yet the end game is the same.

There has always been dope in the tour. That is a fact that is well known. the riders of yesteryear took the very best they could get. They thought it made them better. In todays world, we know what they took doesn't work as well as they thought. That's just hindsight. In 100 years we may find what they are taking now is not the best. The point is, the riders of today think it is, just as they did 100 years ago. No difference at all.

It's a dirty sport and always has been and IMO always will be.

But everyone does try, unlike wrestling!

[Rueda Tropical]

Sky might be doping, just curious as to what they could be doing that no one else can. To think that only one team has the resources or will to cheat if they can get away with it is naive no?

Looking at the recent history of doping -everyone does not have the same knowledge, network or resources. One team usually works out a system and secures medical advice that other's don't have for a period of dominance. Right now the methods of the guys that were dominating have been shattered by positive tests. SKY is new, has a clean record and tremendous resources. If it's discovered they developed a better program while the other teams where in disarray from doping charges that would be no surprise to anyone.

[Rueda Tropical]

Not possible! The dope will ALWAYS be ahead of the test!



The UCI is not even trying. The system is designed to limit doping to those with resources and good professional advice, so you don't have guys droping dead left and right. With tests designed to actually prevent doping there could be periods where the risk reward equation will tip to riding clean. No doubt new stuff will come along that will swing things the other way for a period but there is no hope if the UCI is complicit.

[laupsi]

is it just me or did it appear from looking at him that Richie Porte was not really suffering? amazing but realistic to think Sky took the stance that to prevent being caught they would sacrifice his podium spot. unlike Motorola or Discovery they may be pigs but they're not hogs!

[firerescuefin]

is it just me or did it appear from looking at him that Richie Porte was not really suffering? amazing but realistic to think Sky took the stance that to prevent being caught they would sacrifice his podium spot. unlike Motorola or Discovery they may be pigs but they're not hogs!

No it's not just you. I agree.

[MattTuck]

Porte hung around at between 2 and 3 minutes behind the lead group for a long time, and that group was moving along pretty well. When it became clear he wasn't getting back, and that he was losing his podium spot, he eased up big time. There isn't a category for most foolish use of energy.

His job is to support Froome. Saving energy when you can is part of that job. Would it have been nice to go 1-2 on the podium in Paris? Sure, but it would be a nice to have, not a key objective. If it was a key objective, then the team is beyond arrogant.

[laupsi]

Another tidbit I noticed. CF was sweating like I've never seen anyone in any sporting event while climbing towards the stage win. The moisture was just pouring off his body and I never saw him take a bottle and pour it over his head to account for all that "precipitation". (Stage 8)

My immediate thought, he was over the red line and would crack from such an extreme effort. He didn't. It simply ain't logical!

[1centaur]

Since I introduced the wrestling analogy, I'll try to defend it.

First, I said "a little like.." not exactly like.

Setting aside the well known history of buying, selling, and giving away stage wins and cash being passed between team cars for help, all of which undermine the "try as hard as they can" predicate, and the breakaway that gets caught 5 k from the finish of every sprint stage, my impression of grand tour GC competition is that the riders see a limited set of possibilities and then see how things transpire on the road. If Mr. Supposed to Dominate does show that domination early, then most of the competition settles down and supports that storyline. That's what being the patron is all about, and pity the fool whom Lance has to chase down and remind. Do six teams really try repeatedly to hit the patron and break him down so they can get back in the fray? No. Maybe one team does, and maybe only half heartedly. The peloton allows indulgences like Thor riding away over mountains, or gets surprised by a desperate Landis (putting out sustained power numbers he'd done in training many times) recovering his yellow jersey, and they react to people having bad days, and the main guys really try on TTs, but it feels like professional improv, which to me feels like working familiar themes without being truly spontaneous (I hate improv for its falseness).

So, fully scripted? No. Everybody busting their guts every day? No. Something in between.

[Rueda Tropical]

IDo six teams really try repeatedly to hit the patron and break him down so they can get back in the fray? No. Maybe one team does, and maybe only half heartedly. The peloton allows indulgences like Thor riding away over mountains, or gets surprised by a desperate Landis (putting out sustained power numbers he'd done in training many times) recovering his yellow jersey, and they react to people having bad days, and the main guys really try on TTs, but it feels like professional improv, which to me feels like working familiar themes without being truly spontaneous (I hate improv for its falseness).

So, fully scripted? No. Everybody busting their guts every day? No. Something in between.

Some of this is the strategy and tactics of a team based endurance sport. But it got distorted and became a grotesque version of itself when blood doping eliminated bad days and made resources and assets that were outside the race and the domain of athletic prowess and strategy preeminent.

[Rueda Tropical]

His job is to support Froome. Saving energy when you can is part of that job. Would it have been nice to go 1-2 on the podium in Paris? Sure, but it would be a nice to have, not a key objective. If it was a key objective, then the team is beyond arrogant.

Last team that thought it would be a good idea to sweep the podium was Radio Shack. The over reach wound up being a not so good idea for the management and riders. You've got to make it look believable.

[CunegoFan]

Porte hung around at between 2 and 3 minutes behind the lead group for a long time, and that group was moving along pretty well. When it became clear he wasn't getting back, and that he was losing his podium spot, he eased up big time. There isn't a category for most foolish use of energy.

Which is what I said above.

Most of Sky took the day off. The Skybots are now claiming it was a bad day so they must not be doping. It looks like a transparent effort to dampen the outcry about stage 8 while getting extra rest for the team.

Porte was not meant to take a rest. He either screwed up or had a brief bad spell that got him gapped when Movistar hit the gas. He then did an astounding effort to chase for tens of kilometers until he realized it was hopeless. He then rode it in easy. The Wattages he was putting out yesterday may have been even better than what he did Ax3. That chase was amazing.

[ultraman6970]

He was getting time back tho...

[CPP]

I think that they are bluffing to show that they are human. But, losing Kirienkev(?) was something no team would do on purpose. He is/was way too valuable

[soulspinner]

Each time Froome was attacked, he was allowed to recover. No tag team attacks. That's what it would have taken to unhinge him.

Bam