Chris King bearing problem...

[TBDSeattle]

I'm turning to the forum for help. I love my king wheels and headsets, but I'm having a particular problem. In the rear wheel the internal sealed cartridge bearings are not fitting properly into the hubshell.

Here is the link to the King rear hub troubleshooting site: http://chrisking.com/tech/tech_hubs#bearings. Their language is:

5. In rare cases, when the wheel has been built at very high tension, the large drive side bearing can become loose and cause creaking. Solution: Check to see if the bearing will slide out by hand. If this happens, we can supply an oversized replacement bearing.

The tension on my spokes is within the normal range, so I'm not sure why the hubshell would be loose, but it the bearings will slide out by hand. Either the hubshell is "stretched," or the bearings or hub are improper sizes.

The wheel has been in my LBS for over three months during which time the mechanic (tops in my book) has been emailing CK and trying to get the problem sorted out. Yesterday I took the wheel back since he was getting no traction from them (from days to weeks to reply to his emails).

I'm kind of at a loss for what to do. Has anyone had this problem before? Any luck sorting it out?

Thanks for any help! TBDSeattle

[oldpotatoe]

I'm turning to the forum for help. I love my king wheels and headsets, but I'm having a particular problem. In the rear wheel the internal sealed cartridge bearings are not fitting properly into the hubshell.

Here is the link to the King rear hub troubleshooting site: http://chrisking.com/tech/tech_hubs#bearings. Their language is:

5. In rare cases, when the wheel has been built at very high tension, the large drive side bearing can become loose and cause creaking. Solution: Check to see if the bearing will slide out by hand. If this happens, we can supply an oversized replacement bearing.

The tension on my spokes is within the normal range, so I'm not sure why the hubshell would be loose, but it the bearings will slide out by hand. Either the hubshell is "stretched," or the bearings or hub are improper sizes.

The wheel has been in my LBS for over three months during which time the mechanic (tops in my book) has been emailing CK and trying to get the problem sorted out. Yesterday I took the wheel back since he was getting no traction from them (from days to weeks to reply to his emails).

I'm kind of at a loss for what to do. Has anyone had this problem before? Any luck sorting it out?

Thanks for any help! TBDSeattle

We've seen this about 3-4 times. What they said, get the OS bearing.

Why hasn't the tops in your book, mechanic, just get a King OS bearing, install, to see if that fixed the issue.

Normal range tension, orginial wheelbuild? What's that range? measured on a tension meter?

[TBDSeattle]

We've seen this about 3-4 times. What they said, get the OS bearing.

Why hasn't the tops in your book, mechanic, just get a King OS bearing, install, to see if that fixed the issue.

Normal range tension, orginial wheelbuild? What's that range? measured on a tension meter?

Thanks for the feedback... I'm glad someone else has seen this before.

I don't have the wheel with me at the moment, but I measured the tension with a wheelsmith tensiometer.

[Oregonic]

I'd call (not email) CK myself. They always pick up - at least they have when I've called. (Come to think of it, they've always responded with 24 hours to an email too, but the phone seems more reliable). I'd assume they can take care of you over the phone and send the bearings. If those don't work, then follow up again.

[TBDSeattle]

Update:

I got in contact with King through my LBS. They suggested I just send them the wheel. I sent it last week through USPS (see the thread on shipping (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=132681&highlight=usps+fedex+ups)). Yesterday I got a phone call saying that they had fixed the problem, and were not going to charge me for the bearings, only the labor and shipping ($35 total).

If that wasn't cool enough, the wheel arrived today, and they gave me a new drive driveshell too! :eek:

That settles it. King is King!

[bicycletricycle]

i had the same problems on a few hubs and have seen it once on a customers. spoke tension was within spec.

kinda turned me off.

dont have that problem with my WI hubs.

[oldpotatoe]

i had the same problems on a few hubs and have seen it once on a customers. spoke tension was within spec.

kinda turned me off.

dont have that problem with my WI hubs.

I think it may be a design issue with these hubs, perhaps due to their complexity, don't know. I haven't ever seen an internal bearing issue on any other hub(cart bearing) owing to spoke tension.

Like DT, am warming to WI, Campagnolo and shimano still hard to beat.

[bicycletricycle]

just not enough aluminum around that bearing. a suspect a few extra grams of aluminum around the drive side spoke flange would take care of it.

[oldpotatoe]

just not enough aluminum around that bearing. a suspect a few extra grams of aluminum around the drive side spoke flange would take care of it.

He makes such nice headsets........................

[Mikej]

I believe they (CK) measure some of the parts to fit the exact shell. Tolerance difference of everyday manufacturing can vary and really just a slight over / under can make the difference, especially since CK products are so tightly dimensioned. Can you mic the old bearing o.d. and tell CK? I once had to have an axle replaced and it was marked with a dimension that needed to be duplicated on the new axle. I've found CK really takes care of you.

[Mark McM]

I think it may be a design issue with these hubs, perhaps due to their complexity, don't know. I haven't ever seen an internal bearing issue on any other hub(cart bearing) owing to spoke tension.

Like DT, am warming to WI, Campagnolo and shimano still hard to beat.

Occasionally, due to design, other hubs have also had this problem. Design features which exacerbate the problem include locating the bearing directly under the flange, or as noted above, using too little material around the bearing. Spoke lacing pattern can also exacerbate the problem - radial lacing, which pulls directly outward, can stretch the flange radially, whereas as tangential lacing creates less radial stretching.

[TBDSeattle]

Great info from the forum... thanks!

I have a pair of WI that I just acquired. I've yet to roll them, but I've heard great things about their quality.

[Ozrider]

@TBDSeattle - I have just experienced the same problem with my CK R45's
Similar to your issue, the wheels are not built with high spoke tension and are built by a very experienced wheel builder. Spoke tension is even and well within spec, and the hubs have very low mileage.
My LBS has put in a warranty claim with the Australian agent and then had it referred to Chris King in the USA.
At present they are not processing a warranty on this.
Considering their cost and the supposed reliability of their other components I find their response disappointing.
My LBs will be pursuing this after the Easter weekend.



Parlee Z5, Trek Madone, Jonesman Custom

[cachagua]

...Radial lacing, which pulls directly outward, can stretch the flange radially, whereas as tangential lacing creates less radial stretching.

Thinking that over. Seems like the aggregate force of the spokes would be the same regardless of lacing pattern? Or would a significant amount of force go into tangential strain in the flange, with 2X or 3X, stretching the flange where spokes pull away from each other and compressing it where they pull toward each other...

Can't think of where else any force would go. Doesn't seem like that'd be much, but maybe it doesn't need to be much? CK's keeping a stock of oversized bearings around, clearly something's happening.

[FlashUNC]

And people look at me like I'm nuts when I say Chris King stuff is too finicky.

[11.4]

Chris King machines hubs within a certain tolerance, but realizes there are going to be variances. So when they actually assemble the hub, they have a few different sizes of bearings (and a couple other sub-components) and pick the one that fits best. Usually this works fine, sometimes it's a little off. I've only seen the "stretched hub" issue with extreme over tensioning on the old Classic hubs, and never on R45's which have a good bit more bulk. Even then, I'm not sure the problem came about after an over tensioning or whether there was a tolerance issue from the beginning. Your LBS should have gotten the next size bearing right off and solved your problem. Or sent your wheel to them. They have very good customer service and fix this kind of thing very reliably and very fast. I once carried a wheel down from Seattle to Portland and they fixed it same day so I could take it back with me.

[Ozrider]

@11.4 - I'm in Australia.


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[berserk87]

And people look at me like I'm nuts when I say Chris King stuff is too finicky.

I hear stories about this stuff too, but I also have my own experience. I am on my 3rd set of hubs (sold the other 2 with wheel sets due to switching from 9 to 11 speed, and 26' to 29').

I have beaten CK hubs like they owed me money. Only one overhaul each in 15 years per set. I have road raced on them. I have done ultra-cross/MTB racing on them. After a recent ultra-cross race I did, had the hubs under muddy water for stretches of the course and the hubs were the only thing that held up ok.

I must just have good luck with CK products. I am not blind fan boy of CK and I do like other hubs (WI and Phil Wood among them). It's just hard for me to argue with the performance record of my CK stuff. They are a great lazy man's hub in terms of maintenance.

[11.4]

@11.4 - I'm in Australia.

I was actually responding to the OP, who is in Seattle.

Your name rather gives you away, though Seattle locally likes to think of itself as the Emerald City of Oz.

[FlashUNC]

I hear stories about this stuff too, but I also have my own experience. I am on my 3rd set of hubs (sold the other 2 with wheel sets due to switching from 9 to 11 speed, and 26' to 29').

I have beaten CK hubs like they owed me money. Only one overhaul each in 15 years per set. I have road raced on them. I have done ultra-cross/MTB racing on them. After a recent ultra-cross race I did, had the hubs under muddy water for stretches of the course and the hubs were the only thing that held up ok.

I must just have good luck with CK products. I am not blind fan boy of CK and I do like other hubs (WI and Phil Wood among them). It's just hard for me to argue with the performance record of my CK stuff. They are a great lazy man's hub in terms of maintenance.

Mine was a bit of an inverse experience. Had a set of their R45 Campy hubs that needed what seemed like constant adjustment, even after what they described as their break-in service interval. Never mind the horrendous sound.

I'm glad they work for a lot of folks. Your experience with CK has been my experience with Campy hubs and wheels.

At the end of the day, I think the brand matters less than just finding whatever gets us out on the bike without too much hassle, yanno?