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spiderlake
12-16-2005, 07:34 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=a5lYEbu6Cdc8&refer=uk

Drugs Should Be Permitted in Sport, Professors Say (Update1)
Dec. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Professional athletes should be allowed to use performance-enhancing drugs under medical supervision, three professors wrote in U.K. medical journal The Lancet.

Legalizing drugs such as steroids would allow research into cheating methods without risking the health of athletes or reducing their lifespan, Bengt Kayser, Alexandre Mauron and Andy Miah said. It would also steer amateurs away from potentially harmful practices, they wrote.

``Legalization of doping, we believe, would encourage more sensible, informed use of drugs in amateur sport, leading to an overall decline in the rate of health problems associated with doping,'' they said in the Dec. 17 edition.

The issue of drugs in sport resurfaced three days ago when U.S. sprinter Tim Montgomery, the former world record-holder in the 100 meters, was banned two years for steroid use. He's since retired, Reuters reported. Argentina tennis pro Guillermo Canas, then ranked 10th, was given the same punishment in August when he tested positive for a banned diuretic, while there were a record 26 doping cases at last year's Athens Olympics.

By allowing medically supervised doping, ``the drugs could be assessed for a clearer view of what is dangerous and what is not,'' the authors said. Playing sports is harmful even if no drugs are taken -- soccer comes with high risks of knee and ankle problems, and boxers can suffer from brain damage -- they added.

Flo-Jo

Florence Griffith-Joyner's death from an epileptic seizure at the age of 38 in 1998 fueled speculation that the three-time Olympic gold medalist took drugs to develop her muscular build, although the sprinter never failed a test and denied wrongdoing.

The career of 1998 Tour de France winner Marco Pantani slumped after 1999 when he was ejected from the Tour of Italy for having too high a red blood cell count, which can indicate drug use. He died from a cocaine overdose aged 34 in March 2004.

As many as 17 cyclists died by 2000 because of use of erythropoietin, or EPO, which increases the number of oxygen- carrying red blood cells, the Pharmaceutical Journal reported in February 2000.

Olympic cycling champion Tyler Hamilton was dropped by Phonak a year ago after tests showed he'd had blood transfusions, while Roberto Heras, the record four-time Tour of Spain winner, may be stripped of this year's title after testing positive for EPO on the second-to-last stage of the race on Sept. 17.

Contradiction

A contradiction exists because performance-enhancing drugs aren't allowed, yet an athlete can get help by being blessed with a performance-enhancing genetic predisposition, the article said.

The 182-year-old Lancet is the world's oldest medical journal and publishes clinical trials, research and analysis for physicians and scientists worldwide.

Anti-doping policies in sport are ``unfounded, dangerous and excessively costly,'' said Kayser, a professor of exercise physiology at the University of Geneva.

Governing body U.K. Sport opposed the idea, pointing to a survey that showed 90 percent of British athletes at the Athens games didn't want peers found guilty of a doping offense to compete in future Olympics.

U.K. Sport ``is committed to promoting ethically fair and drug-free sport, with the aim of producing sportsmen and women who are competing and winning fairly,'' U.K. Sport said in an e- mailed statement. ``The use of performance-enhancing drugs undermines the integrity of all involved in sport.''

Lincoln Allison, a U.K.-based author whose books include Amateurism in Sport and the Global Politics of Sport, backed the professors by calling for openness in drug use.

``If they're going to do it, they should do it up front,'' Allison said in a phone interview. ``I don't know how it would benefit the sports involved. But the sports I think I'd want my grandkids to play wouldn't be affected.''

Mauron is a professor of bioethics at the University of Geneva, while Miah is a lecturer in media, bioethics and cyberculture at the University of Paisley in Scotland.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Ravi Ubha in London at at rubha@bloomberg.net.

Climb01742
12-16-2005, 07:48 AM
interesting logic.

so should we then legalize corporate corruption so we can better analyze what works and doesn't? legalize murder so we can better analyze which methods of murder work best? legalize torture so we can better...oh wait...

OldDog
12-16-2005, 07:56 AM
I like this one: "A contradiction exists because performance-enhancing drugs aren't allowed, yet an athlete can get help by being blessed with a performance-enhancing genetic predisposition, the article said."

Duh.

Hysbrian
12-16-2005, 07:58 AM
How many times have we heard this????? :crap: MP imho bro! Plus why do you think that teams like Discovery (and all Pro Tour teams) have 3 full time Docs?
And wouldln't it just be awesomeif EPO was legal...then everyone who is lazy could just sit around all winter and pick up some EPO in the spring from CVS...great. This sport is for people who want to work hard.

Dr. Doofus
12-16-2005, 08:08 AM
yo

hype flow from MFX

from ghetto to ghetto, to backyard to yard
I sell it whip on whip, it's off the hard
stand on that temple nigga, spit that cris nigga
throw that chair, make em recognize this
raw, playa looka here, I'm great in the kitchen like mornin cookware
Uncle Jamima, wit my braids wrapped
in 3-minute recipes for cookin flap jack
coke price through the roof, SL blew the coupe
my niece askin how my rims bigger than a hula-hoop
cuzzo, I make the block holla, take it back to childhood
how the scale titer-totter, as I evolve
weight grew heavy, it was kinda like my buddy just fell off the see-saw

spiderlake
12-16-2005, 08:25 AM
OD - that was my favorite part of the article. To me, it's like saying that I need a headstart because I weigh more than the rest of the pack. I'm not genetically predisposed to be in the NBA so should they make an exception for me??

I like this one: "A contradiction exists because performance-enhancing drugs aren't allowed, yet an athlete can get help by being blessed with a performance-enhancing genetic predisposition, the article said."

Duh.

e-RICHIE
12-16-2005, 08:26 AM
So ya wanna dump out yo' trick bag.
Ease on in a hip thang,
But you ain't exactly sure what is hip.

So you started to let your hair grow.
Spent big bucks on your wardrobe.
Somehow, ya know there's much more to the trip.

(refrain #1)
What is hip?
Tell me, tell me, if you think you know.
What is hip?
If you're really hip,
the question, "Will it show?"
You're into a hip trip.
Maybe hipper than hip.
What is hip?
{ Trumpet solo/guitar solo }
(refrain #1 ends)

You became a part of a new breed.
Been smokin' only the best weed.
Hangin' out with the so called "Hippie set."

Seen in all the right places.
Seen with just the right faces.
You should be satisfied, but it ain't quite right.

{ refrain #1 }

Come on!

(refrain #2)
Hipness is. What it is!
Hipness is. What it is!
Hipness is. What it is!
Sometimes hipness is, what it ain't.
(end refrain #2)

{ guitar solo }

You went an' found you a guru.
In an effort to find you a new you,
And maybe even raise your conscious level.

While you're striving to find the right road,
There's one thing you should know,
"What's hip today, might become passe'."

{ refrain #1 }

{ Trumpet solo }

Think about it y'all.

{ keyboard solo }

{ refrain #2 }

What is hip?
Ahhhhhhhhh!
What is hip?
I'd like to know!
What is hip?
Is it in the style of your hair?
What is hip?
Is it in the clothes that you wear?
What is hip?
I'd like to know.
What is hip?
I'd like to know.
What is hip?
What is hip y'all? Hey!
What is hip?
Hey! Oh!
What is hip?
What is hip y'all?
What is hip?
I wanna know.
What is hip?
Ahhhhhhh!
What is hip?
I wanna know what hipness is.

just ask this cat...

Fixed
12-16-2005, 08:34 AM
bro tower of power says there is only so much oil in the ground i.m.h.o. cheers

Tom
12-16-2005, 08:38 AM
while those that can't afford it get no care at all.

How about we allow the people with no health coverage to get medical care under the supervision of a doctor? Let's start there and leave the cheaters to cheat all on their own without chewing up the legitimate resources.

e-RICHIE
12-16-2005, 08:46 AM
sooner or later, all professional sports will be like this...

William
12-16-2005, 09:01 AM
http://www.physicalenhancement.com/images/drugoly.jpg

aaaaaAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/pics/88aupdate3.jpg



William

taz-t
12-16-2005, 09:01 AM
sooner or later, all professional sports will be like this...


Every Crit should start with the PA playing Toccata and Fugue in D-Minor...

- Taz in ATL

Fixed
12-16-2005, 07:25 PM
bro bach the first jazz man cheers :beer:

Elefantino
12-16-2005, 07:32 PM
We were "forced" to go to an assembly when I was in high school to hear a local band.

They went on to become Tower of Power.

I wish I still was a young man...

CalfeeFly
12-16-2005, 09:00 PM
And wouldln't it just be awesomeif EPO was legal...then everyone who is lazy could just sit around all winter and pick up some EPO in the spring from CVS...great. This sport is for people who want to work hard.

You are showing a misunderstanding of EPO. You could lay around all winter, max out on EPO and gain next to nothing. Fact is that you would have gone a long way into having a stroke or dying in your sleep.

"The reason that EPO… is dangerous is because of increased blood viscosity. Basically, whole blood consists of red blood cells and plasma (water, proteins, etc.). The percentage of whole blood that is occupied by the red blood cells is referred to as, the hematocrit. A low hematocrit means dilute (thin) blood, and a high hematocrit mean concentrated (thick) blood. Above a certain hematocrit level whole blood can sludge and clog capillaries. If this happens in the brain it results in a stroke. In the heart, a heart attack. Unfortunately, this has happened to several elite athletes who have used EPO."

Steroids can and do make you artifically stronger and bigger. EPO does not do anything like that. "Medically, EPO is used to treat certain forms of anemia..."

There are basically two ways to take EPO as a cyclist. The way most anyone would view as cheating is to increase your hemocrit level well beyond what is considered normal. At this point it is quite likely you could join the 18 who have died and/or get caught.

The second and I have trouble viewing this as cheating although I'm sure I'll be flamed for it is to replace the red blood cells lost due to intense training and racing. When your hemocrit level is way low in the same way as an anemic person taking EPO would merely make it normal. If administered under medical supervision it could easily be viewed as a "recovery" aid.

If you read interviews of pros they sometimes refer to giving their body what it needs. They will refer to the enormous toll that a stage race takes on the body and the abuse their body takes during the classics going from race to race. To give you an idea of the toll of the Tour it has been estimated that a cyclist will lose up to 15 percent of their bone mass during those 3 weeks. It is brutal and the body takes a toll.

The "original" blood doping was to transfuse blood to replace lost red blood cells. The famous Eddie B teams all did this as it was considered "good science." Through knowledge and science the abuse that training was taking on their bodies was addressed. The safest way due to blood born illness or incompatability is to transfuse you own blood. You store it while your level is normal. The downside of this is that you are weaker from the donation until your body recovers. (I believe that is about 1 month.)

Barry Bonds got huge and strong because of steroids. His body did not have that capacity. He will "shrink" when he goes off of them to his normal body type.

An athlete that has been training extremely hard and in turn reduces their red blood cell count is in a way ill from training. They in turn can take EPO and merely return to a hemocrit level consistent with when their body is normal and healthy. Going to above normal levels and they risk turning their blood into sludge and possible death.

If you get sick while training...say an infection from a saddle sore...get an antibiotic injected and get rid of the infection from a training injury...is this cheating too? Is taking large doses of B vitamins that some feel need to be megadosed to replace depletion due to hard training cheating as well? In other words it isn't as black and white as some lead the public to believe.

The article about medically supervised and legal drug use makes sense if you are using drugs that enhance recovery from the effects of racing and training. I do not think that taking drugs that give you more than God gave you in terms of strength is right. Lastly the reference to a "performance-enhancing genetic predisposition" at least in part refers to individuals who for God given reasons can replace red blood cells lost to training faster than another. We don't all recover at the same rate.

I hope this gave some of you food for thought. Far from being black and white it is mostly gray.

Be kind...it was food for thought not food for flaming. :)

e-RICHIE
12-16-2005, 09:09 PM
...Be kind...it was food for thought not food for flaming. :)


you want food?
all the points you cite as reasons that the body needs
these things, or anything for that matter, help describe
what a sick sport it is as well as what pawns the athletes
have become, the season is too long, the races are too
hard, and the same racers, except for lance, traditionally
race from feb-oct in all the one day and stage races that
a d.s. can get them into. it_is_inhumane.
will it take a union? better pay? an enlightened leader?
it will take something, because as long as there's an
audience for this, the drug use issue will get worse long
begore it gets better.

Samster
12-16-2005, 10:08 PM
It's difficult for me to see sport doping as a "crime." I understand that the losers of a race "get hurt" if they're clean when the winner is doped, but really the person who doped is the person who gets physiologically damaged. In that regard, doping isn't much different from suicide from the viewpoint of criminal activity.

Basically, cycling is a kind of entertainment that we viewers pay (in one way or another) to watch.

At least based on my meager physiological capacities, the pro races I've had the honor to see are beyond inhumane and the riders appear to be mostly inhuman. That may be cruelty inflicted upon the racers, but sport at that level is really about entertaining the masses of people whom sponsors want to reach.

If a ballet dancer took steriods to build muscle mass, I doubt seriously anyone would fire him or her for "doping" because ballet is mostly a commercial endeavor that exploits a certain kind of athleticism.

Really, how is professional cycling any different?

They're just doing what they need to do to make a living and performing to the expectation of sponsors and the viewing public.

If you really want to stop doping, start by expecting less of a show.

-sam

e-RICHIE
12-16-2005, 10:19 PM
have you watched the original "rollerball" film recently?
that is sport today.

Samster
12-16-2005, 10:34 PM
have you watched the original "rollerball" film recently?
that is sport today.

I think it was like that yesterday too. Nothing changes much...