Cassette Range Angst

[Michael Katz]

I am about to replace my more than a decade old 10 speed drive train with a new 11 speed. I currently ride a 50/34 13-26 setup and am trying to decide whether to go with a 12-25 or 12-27 cassette (will again be running 50/34 chain rings). The areas in which I ride have a fair amount of hills and I use the 26 when necessary. Some of the hills I ride require a grinding out of the saddle climb even with a 34/26 combo and can leave me muttering about "more gears", but I have never had to dismount and walk.

I have looked at the gear charts until my eyes have glazed over but am having a difficult time understanding in practical real world terms how different a 25 would be from a 26 and how different the 27 would be from the 25 (and the 26 for that matter). Anyone who rides in hilly areas have experience with which to compare the different cassettes?

[Tony T]

Some of the hills I ride require a grinding out of the saddle climb even with a 34/26 combo and can leave me muttering about "more gears"

Get the 12-27

(...what about 12-29? :))

[Cat3roadracer]

Enjoy the 27.

[AngryScientist]

i ride a 12-27 on my 10-sp bike and really like it. thats the way i would go.

[aramis]

I'd get a 11-28 or 12-28 if it exists, but go for the 27 at least.

In my opinion (which might not mean much), if you find yourself under 70rpm for any significant periods of time it might be wise to look into different gearing. But I do see some people that do very well with much less gearing than I use.

I was at 60rpm sitting for a little while this weekend (there is really steep stuff in my area) on my 34x32 gear and wasn't too happy. I still could shift down if I wanted to stand but was able to sit if needed. Most of the time I only get into the 25 or 28 on the less steep climbs though but having gearing in reserve can save you on longer climbs.

If you have to even think about getting off and walking it's probably time to get some more gearing.

[Ralph]

My brain recognizes or thinks in percentages. The difference between a 34-25 and a 34-26 is 1 divided by 25 or 4%. So the 34-25 is 4% taller. Or you could say the 34-26 is (1/26) is 3.8% lower than a 34-25.

The 34-27 is one tooth lower yet.....1 divided by 27 (1/27) is 3.7% lower than 34-26. There is not a lot of difference in these cogs. To make a real difference, one that helps a lot, you gotto got more in the way of a 10% change. Like a 34-30. Just go back and remember your 6 or 7th grade math.

[Fishbike]

Frankly I can't tell the difference between my 27 or my 26. But I like having the 27. I suggest going with the 27.

[firerescuefin]

If you're muttering about gears turning a 26...get the 12-29....JMO

[buddybikes]

12-28 if you don't need the 11. nice smooth range, will be on my new bike soon.

[mvrider]

With the hills around here, I'm happy to have the 34/29 option on 9%+ grades.

[Michael Katz]

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions. In addition to wondering whether there is a real world difference between a 25 vs 26 vs 27, I think one of the nagging concerns I had was that to go to a 27, I would lose the 18 and didn't have a handle on whether that would be the loss of a "sweet spot" gear for the riding I do. I went back to the bikecalc.com website and looked at the speed ranges for 50 x 17,18 and 19 @ 85-105 cadence, which is my comfort range, in increments of 5. That led me to conclude that I really won't miss the 18 since I can easily cover that gear on flats and rollers by going to the 17 or 19 and adjusting my cadence +/- 5 rpm.

So, that makes the 12-27 an easier decision. But now some of you have complicated things by suggesting a 12-29 :) . The difference between the 12-27 and 12-29 is from 23 and up. 23, 25 and 27 vs 23, 26 and 29. Would replicate what I currently have up top but also give me that "extra gear" I occasionally wish I had. Almost a no brainer. But then I think about how nice it would be on some hills not to have a 3 tooth jump from the 23 and have closer ratios. Ah, the dilemmas I have to face.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[teleguy57]

This 59-year old too-fat-to-climb flatlander (I live at 867 ft in Wisconsin) is sitting in a hotel room in Boulder CO right now after my first ride after driving out yesterday/this morning. I have two 11 speed Campy cassettes; I use a 12-25 at home and rarely use the 25 unless it's on a a very steep, short hill. I have a 12-29 on for riding out here.

I have 50/36 Q-Rotor rings on the front.

On my ride today I started with a wheelset with the 12-25 and going east into the rollers I was fine with that. I did a loop, then swapped wheels as I know I'll need the 29 when I go west into the front range. Wanted to give that a good test too since I hadn't ridden it for a while.

Something is funky with my rear shifting with the 12-29, so it's off to see oldpotatoe tomorrow! Was planning to stop in anyhow as I do on my annual trip, but now I can have him work his Campy magic too:)

If I had to choose only one cassette and I knew there were medium hills I'd go 27; if I knew I was going to do a lot of climbing I'd do the 29 but know I was giving up some gears in the middle.

[Michael Katz]

For Campy cassettes (which is what I am looking at), the difference between the 11-25 and 12-25 is that the 11-25 doesn't have an 18 and the 12-25 does (12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23 and 25).

The 12-27 gives up the 18 to add the 27. The 12-29 changes nothing from the 12-27 from 23 and below. The 25 becomes a 26 and the 27 becomes a 29. That's what makes the 12-29 so inviting!

[firerescuefin]

Michael...you will never own the 29...and wish you had the 27....I don't think you could say it the other way.

[aramis]

I'd go with the 12-29. Unless you are really hammering down hills the 50x11 isn't that useful of a gear for non-racers. On a ride up and down a steep grade, the 29 would make me faster overall compared to having the 11 available fwiw.

I'm also not old or fat either and I like having lots of gearing available (and know some fast guys that use up to 32 rear cassettes in the area).

[ultraman6970]

You can get a custom made if you dont need like the 13T and you can start at 14T all the way no skip up to 24T or skip the last 2 and put and 24 25 27 or 24 27 29 or something.

You can customize miche cassettes just in case.

[OtayBW]

Personally, I'd stick with the 12-27. The 29 is too 'gappy' at the low end, and I think not necessary unless you're really spending time over, say, ~12-14+ percent grade. YMMV.

[Tony T]

For Campy cassettes (which is what I am looking at), the difference between the 11-25 and 12-25 is that the 11-25 doesn't have an 18 and the 12-25 does (12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23 and 25).

The 12-27 gives up the 18 to add the 27. The 12-29 changes nothing from the 12-27 from 23 and below. The 25 becomes a 26 and the 27 becomes a 29. That's what makes the 12-29 so inviting!

This might help:

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/techmetric/index.jsp

[Michael Katz]

Thanks Tony T. I didn't know Campy had that tool on its website.

OtayBW, that's my reservation about the 12-29 too. Even with my existing 13-26, the 3 tooth jump from the 23 to the 26 at times feels excessive.

[vqdriver]

I pine for the 13-29 10 sp cassettes. More useful for me. But the 12-29 is nice

[oldpotatoe]

I am about to replace my more than a decade old 10 speed drive train with a new 11 speed. I currently ride a 50/34 13-26 setup and am trying to decide whether to go with a 12-25 or 12-27 cassette (will again be running 50/34 chain rings). The areas in which I ride have a fair amount of hills and I use the 26 when necessary. Some of the hills I ride require a grinding out of the saddle climb even with a 34/26 combo and can leave me muttering about "more gears", but I have never had to dismount and walk.

I have looked at the gear charts until my eyes have glazed over but am having a difficult time understanding in practical real world terms how different a 25 would be from a 26 and how different the 27 would be from the 25 (and the 26 for that matter). Anyone who rides in hilly areas have experience with which to compare the different cassettes?

get the 12-27 and go ride.

[Pete Mckeon]

it is always nice to have a 27 or 29 as the drop gear just in case. Neither one has ever made me slower and the one I have on bike most is the 29 but I do not use it the most. (if that makes sense)<

You will not lose a ride if you have one instead of a 25. Just my 2cents of riding :bike: If you have remorse with a 27 or 29,the bottle of red will be on me.

Smile and blame on me PETE

[Tony T]

Thanks Tony T. I didn't know Campy had that tool on its website.

OtayBW, that's my reservation about the 12-29 too. Even with my existing 13-26, the 3 tooth jump from the 23 to the 26 at times feels excessive.

Just do what I did -- get both :)
(..and get the Chorus, unless you're looking to save grams, not worth the xtra cost for the titanium cogs in Record, or SR)

[Tony T]

I pine for the 13-29 10 sp cassettes. More useful for me. But the 12-29 is nice

I wish Campy would produce an 11-29, or at least an 11-27

[Michael Katz]

Thanks again for everyone's responses. Provided lots to think about. Finally decided on the 12-27. The loss of the 18 will be of negligible effect and I think I will take advantage of the closer ratios of a 23-25-27 far more frequently than I would feel compelled to use a 29 instead of my current 26. So with the 27 being at least a "teensy" bit bigger than my 26, I ought to be fine on the tough out of the saddle grinding climbs while enjoying the closer ratios than i now have at the upper end.

[firerescuefin]

I wish Campy would produce an 11-29, or at least an 11-27

Tony...my understanding is that they are coming out with an 11-27...I too want that Casette.

[Tony T]

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll keep an eye out for that.

[FlashUNC]

As someone who moved from the 13-26 to a 12-27 11 spd cassette, I will say you won't miss much.

I had a deep and unhealthy love for the 13-26 cassette, but the 12-27 scratches just about all of the same itch.

[Ahneida Ride]

Get the 12 -19

I run a Campy 10 speed 13-29

and yes you can really feel the jump into the 29 gear ...

The 29 keeps me out of the granny.

----------------

TA Carmina up front ..... 48/36/22 rings
13-29 Cassette
12 year old Campy 10 speed Record components.

Shifting is excellent. Quite good indeed !!!!!

[Ahneida Ride]

My LBS guru used to hold the Masters Record the the Mt. Washington Climb.

He runs a triple with a 13-29 rear.

[Ahneida Ride]

Personally, I'd stick with the 12-27. The 29 is too 'gappy' at the low end, and I think not necessary unless you're really spending time over, say, ~12-14+ percent grade. YMMV.

A lot of truth here ....

Problem is in New York and Vermont ... you can be riding along flat and
WHAM O there is a 12-18 percent grade in front of you. :eek:

[Pete Mckeon]

It will not hurt you to have a 29 if in NY or VT or a 27 IN Raleigh. Make your priority the one that makes your most common ride the most enjoyable.


A 11 vs 12 is only beneficial at the 11 - if you are in BIG ring in front and smallerst in back AND it is a hammerfest (and not too hilly):eek:

[Ken Robb]

It will not hurt you to have a 29 if in NY or VT or a 27 IN Raleigh. Make your priority the one that makes your most common ride the most enjoyable.


A 11 vs 12 is only beneficial at the 11 - if you are in BIG ring in front and smallerst in back AND it is a hammerfest (and not too hilly):eek:

Yeah, and I'm also drafting behind a bus.

[Pete Mckeon]

and a 11 going down hill and :confused:

Yeah, and I'm also drafting behind a bus.

[Chance]

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions. In addition to wondering whether there is a real world difference between a 25 vs 26 vs 27, I think one of the nagging concerns I had was that to go to a 27, I would lose the 18 and didn't have a handle on whether that would be the loss of a "sweet spot" gear for the riding I do. I went back to the bikecalc.com website and looked at the speed ranges for 50 x 17,18 and 19 @ 85-105 cadence, which is my comfort range, in increments of 5. That led me to conclude that I really won't miss the 18 since I can easily cover that gear on flats and rollers by going to the 17 or 19 and adjusting my cadence +/- 5 rpm.

So, that makes the 12-27 an easier decision. But now some of you have complicated things by suggesting a 12-29 :) . The difference between the 12-27 and 12-29 is from 23 and up. 23, 25 and 27 vs 23, 26 and 29. Would replicate what I currently have up top but also give me that "extra gear" I occasionally wish I had. Almost a no brainer. But then I think about how nice it would be on some hills not to have a 3 tooth jump from the 23 and have closer ratios. Ah, the dilemmas I have to face.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Michael, for what it's worth, the percentage change between 17T and 19T is almost identical to 26T and 29T; and the jump between 23T and 26T is only slightly greater than either of the previously-mentioned two jumps.

It seems to me that if you have already decided that the 17 to 19 jump will work for you, then the 23 to 26 or 26 to 29 shouldn't be all that different. Obviously speeds will be completely different, but as mentioned previously by someone else, my preference is also to look at it as an absolute "percent". My Shimano 12-27 cassette has jumps of 21-24-27 while a 12-25 cassette has 21-23-25. Everything else being equal my preference is the 12-27 cassette. The 3-tooth jumps don't bother me at all, and when that extra low gear is needed it's nice to have a 27T instead of a 25T (again, assuming everything else is equal).