Serotta issues structural alert on STS ti stems

[Frank]

Is on the Serotta website, but for those of you who only read the forum ;)

December 12, 2005

Serotta Takes Proactive Stance on Stem Fatigue

Serotta Competition Bicycles has issued a proactive structural alert regarding its STS titanium stems. Effective immediately, Serotta Competition Bicycles urges all owners of Serotta Titanium Stems to conduct an inspection of the stem welds for any signs of hairline cracks. In addition, owners are asked to conduct a bending and twisting test to check for any unusual cracking or creaking sounds. If there is any evidence of cracks or creaking, the user is advised to discontinue the use of the stem immediately.

Serotta reports that only a few of thousands of the stems which were produced between 1995 and 1998 have been returned showing signs of fatigue failure, but as a precautionary measure, the company is issuing this warning. Any customers who would like to return their stem to Serotta for inspection are welcome to do so by contacting the company and obtaining an RA (return authorization) number.

It is not clear why these three samples have fatigued, but there are many variables that effect fatigue life including rider weight, whether or not maximum insertion depth was adhered to, handlebar selection, clamp/bar interface, bolt torque and use conditions. These in fact are conditions that affect the long term strength and durability of all stems in the market place, welded or forged.

As with all Serotta products, we conducted periodic fatigue testing on our stems which showed them to be very durable, in fact, tests showed a fatigue life cycle well beyond most aluminum stems.
Inspection procedures are as follows:

The bending test should be performed while standing over the bike, bracing the top tube or saddle and pushing down and pulling up evenly on both sides of the bar.
The twisting test should be conducted similarly (weight on top tube or saddle) while pulling up on one side of the handle bar while pushing down on the other and repeating.
Visual inspection should be conducted by thoroughly cleaning all weld/joint sights and examining the entire joint area for any signs of cracking. A small reading glass is recommended to aid in this procedure.

Serotta recommends that all cyclists conduct visual inspections of their equipment (any model, any brand) on a regular basis- at least once every 500 miles, or immediately after any crash. Think of yourself as a pilot.

RA Procedure:
Send an email to Kelly Bedford, Kelly@serotta.com.
Please provide: Name, address, contact information, stem model, specifications, date of purchase, place of purchase.

Media Inquiries:
Please send email to Kathy Wren, kathy@shoreypr.com.

[Fixed]

bro reading glasses while cleaning your bike check for cracks esp. on all carbon parts.i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:merry christmas to all my bros. :beer:

[TriJim]

Looks like Serotta wants protection from liability (blame the rider because he was expected to see the crack developing), but does not address the issue of whether failure of their titanium stems is caused by a design, material, or manufacturing defect.
Their comment, "It is not clear why these three samples have fatigued..." needs context so we can better understand what prompted this "proactive stance." Are welds cracking, did the failures occur while riding or testing, were the subject stems installed or used improperly?
Finally, Serotta offers to inspect your stem (not even sure if this is free), but no offer to repair or replace damaged (?defective) merchandise.

I would expect a more "customer friendly" approach to this problem from an exclusive company like Serotta -- at least an offer to repair or replace all damaged merchandise -- even if the warranty has expired.

[victoryfactory]

Trijim;

I disagree somewhat with your statement that Serotta should have a more "customer friendly" approach here.
This is a reasonable first step, as I read it. Standard for this type of situation.

What if it turns out that these few examples were due to missuse, crashes
etc? And yes, they have to think of liability, this is prudent business
practice. As far as an offer to replace/repair, Serotta has shown often enough
their willingness to step up to the plate for their customers. Give them a chance
to work this thing out.

I would expect Serotta will study this problem very carefully and adjust their
statement if required as they get more info.

VF
DISCLAIMER: admittedly, I don't have one of those stems

[Serotta_James]

Here is some context for you:
Of the well over a thousand stems we have sold, 3 have been returned in the last year. There was some cracking in the welds.
Like all of our products, this has a lifetime warranty, and as such we will replace or repair any stem that has this fatigue problem. This is a customer-friendly solution, actually. We didn't feel comfortable saying nothing about this issue, but we also don't feel that this percentage requires a recall. This is combined with the fact that Titanium does not catastrophically fail. If there is an issue with a stem, you should notice it long before it becomes a problem for you, or a potential liability for us.
I can assure you that this decision was completely motivated by a desire to do the ethically proper thing.

[Tom]

Three tenths of one percent of a product develops an issue that the customer may or may not notice and the vendor tells everybody to take a look at the one they have? Not bad.

Fixed is right. You ought to be looking your equipment over all the time. Pre-flight checks prevent flying the thing into the ground.

[dbrk]

Having been on the inside of an issue very much like this (once was enough!), there are two things that come to mind. First, with Serotta, like with the good folks I was working with, there was a very serious ethical issue _first and foremost_: we must do the right thing. Second, like in this case, the incidence of failure were so, so small that we worried for an over-blown and unwarranted blowback (too much prattle, too much unwarranted fear, reputation suffers, etc.), all of which are entirely rational considerations. Like Serotta, we did the right thing. Kudos to Ben and Co., I say, enormous huzzahs of genuine admiration for doing the right thing about what is tempest in a teapot.

To wit, catastrophic failure in ti is not going to happen (like in steel) and so anyone who doesn't notice a problem before it's a problem has way bigger problems than this. Or at least that's what I think.

I seen lots and lots of bike parts fail (more carbon than anything else by a long shot), and I would never, ever worry about anything Serotta makes. Given how much they make, there will be a few glitches in the Matrix, but given the whole, there is not one thing to worry about.

What this dealer did was just overstated and creates another level of a problem that is, well, not much of one. I also feel for the simple hassle of words that this causes Serotta to embark upon. I too will stop talking about it, not one more word from me about this!

dbrk

[Serotta PETE]

If you have one of the stems and it is bad (my stem is ok) I can assure you that Ben and the team will make good. This is based on over 25 years of dealing with them. They are truly being proactive and customer focused.


Yes I am biased, as I always say I am........... :beer: :beer:

[OldDog]

What Douglas said. Adding that, as a manufacturer myself, I have the greatest respect for Ben Serotta and his team, the quality of his products, the ethical manner in which he does business, his business model and his overall success at being the best at his choosen profession.

[ada@prorider.or]

[QUOTE=dbrk]To wit, catastrophic failure in ti is not going to happen (like in steel) and so anyone who doesn't notice a problem before it's a problem has way bigger problems than this. Or at least that's what I think.

I seen lots and lots of bike parts fail (more carbon than anything else by a long shot), and I would never, ever worry about anything Serotta makes. QUOTE]


well i do not agree with you first statement is that catastrophic failure in ti is not going to happen (like in steel

well as people should know that ti cracks in a second
and steel like alu you get a little warning noise
that is typical for titan that it happens suddenly

and its kind of strange that yo would never worry about serotta make´s
does they do ultrasonic test of evry part???
becuase you never can look into the material even how good you are why do you think plane´s are tested
and even there faults happen after very stright rule´s despite what the best you do you are always dependable on ti delivered
well meaby thats why we only use aerospace tested material but even then the joint by welding can be effected this always can happen
so trust is good checking is better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sandy]

"so trust is good checking is better!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Very well said and explained. Excellent advice and reasoning.


Safety Sandy

[zap]

I agree with Cees. Ti can fail in a catastrophic manner. I'm puzzled why a Serotta employee would state that it does not.

[vaxn8r]

....To wit, catastrophic failure in ti is not going to happen (like in steel) and so anyone who doesn't notice a problem before it's a problem has way bigger problems than this. Or at least that's what I think.

I seen lots and lots of bike parts fail (more carbon than anything else by a long shot), and I would never, ever worry about anything Serotta makes....
dbrk
I was afraid this thread was somehow going to get redirected to an anti carbon rant.

Personal observations mean pretty much nothing. Anecdotes. Douglas, a professor ought to know it. FWIW, parts I've personally seen fail last 3 years and ~18,000 miles of mostly group rides: Aluminum rear derailleur: Face plate snapped on a downshift, no apparent reason. CF fork, bike was ran head-on into a 6 inch concrete dividing barrier at about 18mph. Ti bike: chain stay broke at a weld. Not catastrophic because the rest of the bike was intact. Aluminum spoke x3 (same wheel), Aluminum spokes, entire wheel as the rider ran over a cat at 25 mph and animal stuck between fork blade and wheel. That Ksyrium SL wheel did not fail despite major deformity to each spoke. And finally, 10 years ago I had an Ibis ti stem develop micro cracks at the weld. I noticed it cleaning the bike and I called them and they sent a new one, no questions asked. Again, what does all this mean? Nada. Until somebody enrolls a scientifically controlled prospective study (and that is never going to happen) it means nothing.

Everything made is eligible to break. Sometimes without notice or obvious warning. We have to know that going in. Even if it's really, really expensive and made by Serotta. No guarantees....

[slowgoing]

I think the press release strikes the perfect balance.

[cpg]

This press release is yet another example of business integrity that Serotta is known for. This will undoubtedly lead to quite a bit of expense for the company. It's the right thing to do even if it proves to be an overreaction. Not many businesses can make such a claim of integrity. Long live Serotta!

Curt

[Fixed]

bro if it can be made it can brake i.m.h.o. cheers :beer: merry christmas :beer:

[d_douglas]

There's no argument to be made here for one material's superiority over another - we are manipulating a material that can at once be turned into a beer can or into a bike part that regular receives hundreds of pounds of torque. Though I am not an aluminum fan, the same can be said for other materials: A CSI or a coat hanger?

The anecdotes are plenty and aren't really valid, I admit, but the point is that things that are made to perform under stress are bound to break (and in some cases, designed to break).

That said, I think I still want one of those Serotta ti stems!

[TriJim]

Serotta James -- Thanks for the additional background information and reassurance. The original statement "three samples have fatigued" didn't give me much to judge. Now that you tell me it is weld fractures in 3 of 1000 stems, I am better able to determine the significance and risk associated with this message. I'm also glad to hear that Serotta plans to replace defective merchandise; I expected to see it in the original statement.

I agree with all that ultimately we are responsible for checking our equipment at appropriate intervals to be sure it is safe and rideable. I welcome the additional guidance from manufacturers when they notice high risk areas. I value this forum where we can exchange ideas and receive additional information.

[dbrk]

Okay, a bit of clarification. If what I wrote is perceieved as a rant about carbon fiber vs. ti or anything of the sort, then I think it was misconstrued. But that's okay, it's all just talk. Catastrophic failure means that the break is sudden and complete. When a bit cracks and gives you some kind of warning that can be discerned perhaps before it snaps, given observation and care, then that's not catastrophic. What I meant should be clear enough: when the break happens, it's all at once and more or less snaps off. Aluminum does this, carbon does this, steel generally does not, it tends to bend or crack first, and ti behaves more like steel than the other materials (though I'm not saying it can't fail all at once).

Anyway, I'm not fanatical about safety because we call take our chances. Steel cracks and breaks sorta' gradual like, ti from my experience looks very similiar; Alu or carbon doesn't usually give you this option. You can carefully look over your alu or carbon bit and there's nothing wrong, then it breaks all at once. You look over steel or ti and it's more likely that it cracked before it breaks. This is news?

Flame away. All of my experience about bicycles is limited to my own experience.
g'night, all, I've not much time to write lately, sorry for that!

dbrk

[Frank Draper]

Even though this is an old thread I just came across it. I bought my Legend Ti in 2003, how can I determine when the ti stem was made? Do I assume it was made in 2003?

[Lifelover]

Even though this is an old thread I just came across it. I bought my Legend Ti in 2003, how can I determine when the ti stem was made? Do I assume it was made in 2003?


Regardless of when it was made, give it a good once over. If you still have concerns contact Serotta to inspect it for you.

[Pete Serotta]

That is the best way = = contact JAMES or Steve.

I still am using my two stems, that are from 2001, and no problems. But then again I am old and slow.

While I have not known anyone who has a problem - it could be because my firends and too busy drinking RED :D

[Frank Draper]

Serotta Pete,
Since I am new to the forum I do not know how to contact James or Steve. Assistance will be appreciated.
Frank D.

[regularguy412]

Serotta Pete,
Since I am new to the forum I do not know how to contact James or Steve. Assistance will be appreciated.
Frank D.

Try this link:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/member.php?u=890

On the upper right you'll see links to send either an email or a PM to Serotta_James.

:beer:
Mike in AR