navigational etiquette?

[sparky33]

What is the navigation responsibility of each individual in a group ride?

Should each rider know the way or have a cue/gps?
Is the ride leader responsible for staying on or near the front (what about run-away trains) and calling turns?
If the group misses a turn do you (as a non-leader) just go with it, or call it out, etc?
In practice, how comfortable are you riding blind in a group - not knowing the route you are on and following the pack?

[palincss]

I guess much of this depends on what "group ride" is, and what a ride leader's responsibilities are. Last year I led something like 80 rides, 70 for one bike club, around 10 for another. In both clubs, ride leaders get a cue sheet when they sign the waiver. Everyone is expected to be able to read the cue sheet and navigate the route. In the club I led 70 rides for, ride leaders are expected to ride at the back of the ride, so "calling turns" is impossible. If riders deviate from the route because they were watching the a$$ of the rider in front rather than paying attention to the route, that's definitely their problem. I'll shout to tell folks up front they've taken a wrong turn, but I'm certainly not going to try to chase them down. They'll figure it out eventually.

In the class where I ride, groups inevitably get strung out a bit, and pacelining rarely if ever happens. Riders tend to ride in small groups and not all that close. Things could be very different in a paceline.

[bambam]

Our group rides are much like PALINCSSS.

If you show up to a group ride and there are no cue sheets I would expect that someone who knows the route if not the RC would stay with you but this also depends on how the ride is pitched.
If there are not queue sheets and the ride is suppose to be a 20+ pace. I wouldn't show up if I could only keep a 17 pace. But, If I could keep 20.x I'd expect someone to stay with me.

If you got a queue sheet, READ IT. Don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you if you get lost. I've seen it many times. If I'm captain and I see someone off course I might chase them, or yell to them or let them go. I'm not a baybsitter I'm there to help if I can, not do everything for you except pedal the bike. (once on a century I wasn't captain of, a newish rider went off by himself. ended up with 144 miles. I asked How? He said he missed a turn and kept going for 22 miles. I asked why since the logest stretch of without turn was 7 miles? No Response.)

As a captian I stay on couse even if everybody else goes a different way.

I alway state at the begining of a ride. If your not riding by yourself you can't get lost. If you are riding with at least one other you can't get lost but you could be on a different adventure. There are cetain people I will call out, at the beginiong of a ride, if I know they have gotten lost before and tell them specifically to follow the queue sheet or stay with me or someone else.

If I'm not sure I know where the route goes I stay with someone who does.

Let me also state that comfort level in a blind group is directly proportional to my knowledge of the area I'm riding in.

[christian]

I think it totally depends on what a "group" ride is. On a club ride in the Bs, as a leader, I'd have a cue sheet, and expect others to have it, as a participant, I'd point out wrong turns and take the correct route myself, but probably not chase people down.

For more spirited group rides, I think it's expected you know the route, or can figure out bailout points. You bet I memorized the relevant parts of the route before I went on Gimbels the first time... just in case I got dropped (I did.)

[FlashUNC]

Responsibility is for the group/ride leader to explicitly state what the ride is beforehand, imo. So folks know if its a drop/no-drop ride, who will sweep, cue sheets if they're available, etc.

No excuse for someone to show up at a hammerfest and getting dropped not knowing that they unwittingly signed-up Wednesday night Worlds.

That being said, if someone gets dumped and its a drop-ride, you're on your own and should be prepared if/when that happens.

We've got a Monday night right here that makes no bones about it. Its a hammerfest and doesn't apologize for it.

As a rider, if I show up at a ride not knowing the route and knowing its a no-drop ride, I'm fine. Otherwise, just get ready for a trip to the pain cave and hope like heck you hang on.

[sparky33]

I think it totally depends on what a "group" ride is. On a club ride in the Bs, as a leader, I'd have a cue sheet, and expect others to have it, as a participant, I'd point out wrong turns and take the correct route myself, but probably not chase people down.



This is basically my opinion. The type of group ride does matter.

I showed for a regular weekly ride recently, and found that it was canceled because the regular leaders were unable to ride. Myself and one other chose the previous week's loop since we had the gps handy. We invited others to join us if they could bear with our inexperience. The ride went fast and well for a bit, missing a few turns but generally on course, with small bunches of riders. Eventually the hammer went way down, and I also lost the group... knowing that group had no directions in it and was headed even farther off route. I thought about chasing them down but decided 1. I'm not sure I could have caught them. 2. they seemed more interested in hammering on than keeping to a route. 3. they are probably able take care of themselves, and it's not a big deal.

I trust my cue, gps or a good friend for navigation. Trusting in group navigation is unreliable.

[verticaldoug]

If the group ride is a bunch of school children, adults in front, keep the group together, and a caboose to herd the cats.

For an adult ride, eventually you have to take responsibility for yourself.
It looks like the nanny state is doing a good job sucking the independence and self reliance out of us.....

[sparky33]

If the group ride is a bunch of school children, adults in front, keep the group together, and a caboose to herd the cats.

For an adult ride, eventually you have to take responsibility for yourself.
It looks like the nanny state is doing a good job sucking the independence and self reliance out of us.....

I like this distinction.
The take away is that good ride organizers, adults, leaders, captains, etc shouldn't be taken for granted. Not easy.