Educate me on 6/7 speed freewheels

[Keith A]

I recently picked up a 1986 Fuji "Club Fuji" on my local Craigslist. It's no garage queen, but it will be a solid rider for my daughter to experience the old school downtube shifting. It has a complete Suntour friction shifting group on it with a 6-speed freewheel. I'd like to change out the freewheel for something that will let my daughter spin a little more and was thinking that I could go to a 7-speed freewheel since the shifting is friction rather than indexed.

So here's what I'd like to know:
o Will there any problems going to a 7-speed freewheel?
o Is the freewheel threading the same, or is this like bottom brackets with Italian, English and French versions?
o Are there any brands I should avoid?

Thanks in advance.

[JAGI410]

Throw the cheap 7spd shimano freewheel on it, add a new 8/9 speed chain, adjust the derailluer limits, and ride!

[tmf]

Throw the cheap 7spd shimano freewheel on it, add a new 8/9 speed chain, adjust the derailluer limits, and ride!

+1

You should be able to find a 7spd freewheel at your LBS for a decent price. I just sold the last two that I had.

I think there were some French threaded hubs, but it's not likely you would have one of those.

[sg8357]

Measure the OLN of the hub, 120 is 5 speed or Suntour Ultra 6,
126 is 6s regular or 7 speed.

Suntour NOS freewheels go for silly money on Ebay. Shimano 600 freewheels are very good too, and go for less money.

In the Pentagon solution category, SuntourXCD makes a 120 oln cassette hub.


http://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2013/04/17/former-suntour-president-junzo-kawai-starts-new-company#.UbshvdhRrGI

[fiataccompli]

The newer style "7/8" speed chain gives you a world of options. Might even find a decent 7 speed freehub wheel that may make custom cassette composition pretty easy.

[jvp]

You will have to adjust the der. cable tension as well as the der. limit stops. Go through all gear combos (small ring/big ring) to find the limits. Found out yesterday that I had no high gear because I had only checked and set the rear limts in my small ring. Easy fix.

[Keith A]

Thanks for all of the replies. From the catalog, the hub is a Suntour Cyclone alloy with precision sealed bearings, and the freewheel is a Suntour Winner. I'm pretty sure the hub spacing is 126mm, but need to verify this.

[tmf]

Just FYI, it's also possible to run 7spd cassettes on a Shimano 9spd freehub with the proper spacer (after the largest sprocket). I mention this in case you have an extra set of wheels that are a better option than what's on the bike. It's good to have options.

[classtimesailer]

Try these.
http://www.interlocracing.com/freewheels_steel.html
This is what will go back on my 81 Medici in 6 speed.

[JAGI410]

I have the IRD 7spd freewheel but still recommended the Shimano one. Why? Because the IRD freewheel is silent when coasting. Shimano's "low effort indicator" is louder, which is safer IMHO when riding around others and pedestrians.

[oliver1850]

As mentioned, it could have the narrow spaced Ultra 6 freewheel, but it's more likely the wide one. SunTour freewheels are ISO threaded. If the hub is 126, you should be able to use 7 speed freewheels from Shimano, Sachs, IRD, SunRace, or SunTour. It can be hard to judge wear on a used one. I just put a used New Winner on one of my bikes that looks fine, but the chain skips terribly on one cog. In your situation, I'd just get a new lower end Shimano.

[Ken Robb]

I have a Sun Race 7 speed freewheel 14-28 that works fine in a Nuovo Record gruppo. One thing to consider: you can still get old style freewheels and new style ones with ramps to help with indexed shifting.
On the old=style you shift past the center of the next cog to get the chain to move and then you trim back to center the chain on the cog.
On ramped cogs you gently move the lever until the ramps nudge the chain to the next cog and it often ends up centered at that point. The drawback to the new style w/ramps is if you move the lever so the chain is slightly past the centered position the ramps can grab at it and you may get autoshifting.

[AngryScientist]

if it's spaced at 126, my vote is to get a modern cassette wheel for the rear, put a nice cheap 9-sp cassette on it, and go. 9 speed cassettes can be had for criminally cheap today, and you should be able to find a rear wheel inexpensively too.

[fiamme red]

if it's spaced at 126, my vote is to get a modern cassette wheel for the rear, put a nice cheap 9-sp cassette on it, and go. 9 speed cassettes can be had for criminally cheap today, and you should be able to find a rear wheel inexpensively too.Then he'd also need new shifters and a new derailleur.

If you're using friction shifting, I wouldn't recommend more than 7-speed.

For 6-speed, the Shimano 14-28 freewheels are nice and very cheap.

[AngryScientist]

If you're using friction shifting, I wouldn't recommend more than 7-speed.

.

not trying to start an argument, but i ride a friction shifted 9-sp bike all the time, no issues, and it's not hard to shift at all once you develop a little muscle memory of where the "detents" are.

[oliver1850]

I was surprised how well a 9 speed friction setup works when I put one on a friend's bike last winter. I used SunTour bar con shifters with a Tiagra 4500 RD. I rode the bike for 3 hrs. after finishing it and it worked great.

That said, I don't see much reason to replace the wheel in order to add a couple of cogs, when you can buy a new Shimano freewheel for $20 shipped.

[oliver1850]

I have a Sun Race 7 speed freewheel 14-28 that works fine in a Nuovo Record gruppo. One thing to consider: you can still get old style freewheels and new style ones with ramps to help with indexed shifting.
On the old=style you shift past the center of the next cog to get the chain to move and then you trim back to center the chain on the cog.
On ramped cogs you gently move the lever until the ramps nudge the chain to the next cog and it often ends up centered at that point. The drawback to the new style w/ramps is if you move the lever so the chain is slightly past the centered position the ramps can grab at it and you may get autoshifting.


How many miles on the SunRace? In pictures they look fine, but I've never used one. You can get a 13-28 7 speed for $16.28 shipped.

[pcxmbfj]

The issue is not with the freewheel but that most manufacturers use a different tool to install/uninstall.

[Ken Robb]

How many miles on the SunRace? In pictures they look fine, but I've never used one. You can get a 13-28 7 speed for $16.28 shipped.

I don't keep track of miles but I have a few bikes so none of them get a lot of miles. I replaced an almost-new Sachs freewheel with the Sun Race to get the 28 cog because with a 42 "small" ring I need all the help I can get.

The Sun Race looked/felt fine in my hands. I bought a couple at The Velodrome Swap Meet for $10 each NIB.

One of my riding pals is even older than me so he got my second one for his classic bike which also has a 42 "small" ring and it works great for him too.

[fiataccompli]

For whatever it may be worth, as someone who regularly rides bikes with 5, 6 or 7 cogs in the rear, I don't see a huge advantage in going with a modern freehub.
That is, if the hub you have is good. More gears mean smaller gaps which is nice & all, but not necessary. What may be a little harder to find "off the shelf" is something that is more of a road set of cogs vs evenly spaced cogs from 14-28 or whatever...but then again that may not matter. I guess what I'm saying s ideally you could pick which cogs to use, but going there with a freewheel may be a whole chapter few people care to read.

[Louis]

not trying to start an argument, but i ride a friction shifted 9-sp bike all the time, no issues, and it's not hard to shift at all once you develop a little muscle memory of where the "detents" are.

It varies from person to person.

As much of a retrogrouch that I am, after using 6-spd friction, which worked fine, I found 9-spd friction to be finicky and not all that much fun. I then went to 9-spd index with DT shifters, and being able to just push or pull and get the right position was a relief.

IMO 9-spd index is a bridge too far.

YMMV

[Ralph]

You can get a new 7 speed Sunrace or Shimano 13-28 or 14-28 on E Bay for $15-$20.....shipped. Has ramps, etc. Believe designed for the HG shifting system. Replacement parts. These aren't hi end, but good enough for your purpose. Personally....if using one of these in friction system, I would use a 9 speed chain...to avoid the chain trying to be on two cogs same time the ramps, etc. Ghost shifting I think some call it.

[Keith A]

Great information guys...thanks a million.

One more question, I assume the older style freewheel gears didn't have the ramps...correct? So do the ramps help or hinder the friction shifting?

[Scuzzer]

So do the ramps help or hinder the friction shifting?

IMO they help a little but in the big scheme of things I don't really care what type of 6 or 7 speed freewheel I'm using with friction or indexed downtube shifters.

[Keith A]

Found this on Sheldon's website...

Shimano Freewheels
Shimano freewheels are by far the best value going. These are still in production, and their Hyperglide design makes them shift better than all others.

SRAM/Sachs Freewheels
SRAM (Formerly Sachs) freewheels were well made and durable, but have been discontinued by the manufacturer.

These are gone forever!

SunTour Freewheels
SunTour freewheels were very high quality, very long lasting and pretty good shifting. SunTour(Japan)has been out of business since the early 1990s.

These are gone forever!

SunRace Freewheels
SunRace freewheels are made in Taiwan. Decent quality, good value.

[Ralph]

In my opinion....the ramps really help friction shifting. But again my experience.....and I have used the new cheap 7 speed Shimano freewheels with friction shifting (Bar ends), I had better luck using a more narrow chain. The HG index system wants to have the chain pick up a cog while it's leaving a cog when using 7/8's chain. System designed for index shifting. With friction shifting, some times the chain wants to ride on top of a cog. Just avoid that with a 9's chain.

[professerr]

Rivendell has cheap freewheels that look reasonable to me. http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/fw7.htm
I assume they have "ramps", which I recall were a small but very nice upgrade when they first came out in the late 80s (?).

I have a bike set up with 10 speeds and friction shifters. It shifts great, and the narrow spacing isn't an issue. I'm adept at using them, but the problem is that when you have 10 speeds you simply shift more than 6 or 7 speeds. So it can get old, especially if you're riding with guys who have 11 speed electronic shifting who shift so much and with such ease that you can feel out of synch with them.

[oldpotatoe]

I recently picked up a 1986 Fuji "Club Fuji" on my local Craigslist. It's no garage queen, but it will be a solid rider for my daughter to experience the old school downtube shifting. It has a complete Suntour friction shifting group on it with a 6-speed freewheel. I'd like to change out the freewheel for something that will let my daughter spin a little more and was thinking that I could go to a 7-speed freewheel since the shifting is friction rather than indexed.

So here's what I'd like to know:
o Will there any problems going to a 7-speed freewheel?
o Is the freewheel threading the same, or is this like bottom brackets with Italian, English and French versions?
o Are there any brands I should avoid?

Thanks in advance.

Depends on the RH axle overhang of the rear hub..as, do you have enough axle for a taller 7s freewheel. If not, you 'may' be able to move spacers left side to right for a 7s freewheel->redish wheel.

Yes there are threadings for freewheels but vast majority were 'english'. All modern freewheels now made are same.

IRD makes great freewheels..5/6/7 speed, well made. About $50 at my house. Shimano and Sunrace do too, about 1/2 the price and about 1/2 the quality..but may work fine with the bike mentioned.

[oldpotatoe]

I have the IRD 7spd freewheel but still recommended the Shimano one. Why? Because the IRD freewheel is silent when coasting. Shimano's "low effort indicator" is louder, which is safer IMHO when riding around others and pedestrians.

???what happens when ya pedal..more dangerous??

[Tony T]

+1

You should be able to find a 7spd freewheel at your LBS for a decent price. I just sold the last two that I had.

I think there were some French threaded hubs, but it's not likely you would have one of those.

I usually don't like eBay, but when I needed a 7s Shimano freewheel, there were a few for reasonable prices there.
Looks like there are some new ones avail on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311.R4.TR5.TRC1&_nkw=shimano+7+speed+freewheel&_sacat=0&_from=R40) for $12 to $15 as a "buy it now".

[Ken Robb]

It's a small thing for most of us but on the Shimano units the 28 cogs are black while the other cogs are silver. That might be an aesthetic drawback.

[Keith A]

Depends on the RH axle overhang of the rear hub..as, do you have enough axle for a taller 7s freewheel. If not, you 'may' be able to move spacers left side to right for a 7s freewheel->redish wheel.
...Thanks for the reply Peter. I snapped a couple of pictures of this and was curious if you could tell if the 7-speed would work/fit.

[TampaJim]

Thanks for the reply Peter. I snapped a couple of pictures of this and was curious if you could tell if the 7-speed would work/fit.

If it doesn't just swap a small spacer left to right and tweak the wheel dish to compensate.

[stien]

Looks like you have gobs of room.

I'd like to +1 the idea of getting a cassette wheel on there. I ride 8s friction and love it. A shimano 105 cassette wheel is dirt cheap and you can run anything from 7-10s.