svelte Jan

[BarryG]

Wow, check out:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2004/mar04/murcia/stage1/cycling-tourofmurcia-a-59

Looks like Jan isn't wasting time getting down to business this year

[dbrk]

I was watching the Luz Ardiden stage the other day while I was supposed to be editing a book. Ullrich was attacking on the Tourmoulet (sp., sic.?) and there was Phil and Paul raving on about how brilliant an idea this was and how he could be making this unlikely move to blow open the race, etc. I couldn't tell if they just felt obliged to add the requisite excitement and say nice things or if they were really as clueless as their rhetoric suggested. Yes, clueless. Did they not look at the length of this stage? Why did they not see this as yet another knuckleheaded, nay, desperate effort by a guy with way more talent than he has racing-sense or good guidance. You can just hear Johan's voice in Lance's ear: "Stay close but let him go! No way he can keep this pace!" Now to give the PhilPaul the benefit of the doubt, they do mention that it's a long ride up the next hill, etc., but they continue to gush irrationally about what is going on. Further, I positively love these guys who have forgotten more about bicycle racing than I will ever learn in 10,000 years of research, study, and scholarship devoted to nothing else. But sometimes their commentary is as dumb as Ullrich's riding. Say what you will about Lance, he doesn't do things in Le Tour that are anything but smart. Lance in the Classics seems to lack the real killer instinct (he could learn a thing or two from Ducloss-Lasalle, Museeuw, Tchmil, DeValminck, etc.) but in the Tour he not only has the best instincts, he has the best guidance, by far.

I, for one, wish that all the radios, heart monitors, computers, and other crap were banned. I wish they rode having to make up their own minds individually and collectively without all the information. I also liked that Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath called their own plays and Thomas Jefferson bought Louisiana without asking for permission. But nowadays it's more technology than self-sufficiency. In that arena Ullrich has never produced any confidence in me for judgment and wisdom. You can say he has matured, I am sure he has, but you can't put in what The Almighty has apparently left out. This guy has huge talent, HUGE. Lance likely has not as much. But instinct for instinct and ear-piece for ear-piece, I'd bet on Lance 100 out of 100 times if talent and how-you-feel-today is off the table. Ullrich wins despite his choices.

Of course, as a fan I am just a slug with an opinion.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

DBRK you said one thing that really stirred me: Ducloss-Lasalle. That bald headed old man took younger and more talented riders to school in Paris Roubaix AND got the girl. Woof, now I have to go dig out some tapes.

[weisan]

I need some education here.

Lance said more than once that Jan is the "most talented" rider in the circuit. And I have heard several other folks mentioned that as well.

So, exactly, what kind of "talents" are we talking about here? Please educate me.

His riding skills, as far as I know, is so-so. Some people even said he can't descent very well. He's not credited with having the biggest lung capacity or anything like that, is he?
I know he can endure a lot of pain and generate a very high power wattage, as proven in his time-trial prowess. I mean, this is a very respectable ability, but is this exactly the kind of talent people has been referring to? I wonder.

[bags27]

You make a good point, Weisan, although I'm not sure how credible you are, given where you live:)

When I watched the 12 hr. DVD at one time (!) (up lame, and with a 52" TV rented for the Superbowl), it struckme that Jan, in riding and in being interviewed, didn't mind being second. I think I'd rather be his friend than Lance's (a moot point, undoubtedly), but Lance is always fierce, playing mind games and conceding nothing. Most telling was after the final TT: when Lance was interviewed he claimed he was actually ahead of Jan when Ullrich crashed. Well, maybe, just maybe, that's what his people were telling him, but everyone else thought he was a few seconds behind. Minor point. Just that Lance wanted the world to believe that he was still the better time trialist.

[BigDaddySmooth]

LA often sees a race with a different perspective from what everyone else is seeing, i.e his arrogance overrules reality at times. The only time he was ahead in the TT was after JU fell off.

I don't particularly like how LA is slamming Heras. Here is a guy who was bought by Postal because he was perceived to be the biggest threat. Part of the "buy" was LA would help RH in the Vuelta. Of course, that never happened...its all about Lance and his millions afterall. For Armstrong to slam RH as a poor Tour rider, lest he forget the Tour (2002 I think) when in the first critical mtn stage it was down to LA, Beloki and RH. Lance, who was doing all the work for you but none other than LA. As far as I know, RH has not slammed Postal nor has Tyler--far classier riders than ole "Big Tex".

[JohnS]

Good point. How many of us overlook the way that LA acts because he's an American?

[Russ]

Originally posted by dbrk
I, for one, wish that all the radios, heart monitors, computers, and other crap were banned. I wish they rode having to make up their own minds individually and collectively without all the information....

Great post DBRK,

As we spoke before, we agree on this one. Nowadays it seems to be more about the bike (the products) than the rider. Riders seem to be a replaceable accessory.

However, do I like the toys, especially for training and as a recreational rider. They help me keep track of things and become a little faster and stronger slug... But gee, just wait until the electronic groups begin to be seen (probably this year) in Le Tour!

Another thing they should do is NOT advertise the race course until the last week or so... It will be really fun to hear a rider say: "gee, that mountain surely was tougher in reality... than I saw it in the map!"

[Russell]

I haven't heard him "slam" Heras. He's always called him a "fantastic" rider. Fact is Hincapie was more important to Lance last year in the mountains than Heras and as I recall (memory is suspect) RH wasn't all that hot the year before. I don't find Lance's confidence to be any more extreme than most top athletes.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Here is an AP photo of Lance in the TT . . . check out that tummy!

BBDave

[Russell]

Gutierrez upsets to win TT battle
Armstrong fifth but moves up to second on GC

25 year old Illes-Balears rider Jose Ivan Gutierrez has upset a few of the favourites to win the second stage of the Vuelta a Murcia, a flat 21.3 km time trial around Lorca. Gutierrez, who was Spanish road champion in 2001 and World U23 time trial champion in 1999, averaged 49.77 km/h to beat German Michael Rich (Gerolsteiner) by three second with Italian Marco Pinotti (Lampre) taking third at 27 seconds. Gutierrez took the overall lead in the process while Lance Armstrong (US Postal-Berry Floor), who lost 29 seconds to finish fifth today, moved into second overall.

Jan 1:35 down

[saab2000]

...what we would normally call a tummy, but it sure looks like it. It is belly breathing.

Nevertheless, I think Lance's days as Tour winner are over. In my eyes, he looks to be chunkier in terms of muscle mass than he used to. This is the end.

My prediction is that he will not win.

[Kevan]

Emotions run high not only with the runner-up but the peleton too. It's just not right for any leader to call out, "I'm better than the rest of yuz!", at least not until the race is over. The reason Lance made that comment about Jan being better was to show humility and grace. What is said in the bus, at the team table and the morning after might well be different.

We kinda saw this happened when Jan did...didn't wait for Lance to pick himself up during the mountain climb. No?

[Roy E. Munson]

Come on, he's an obnoxious, arrogant prick, and any teammate of his will tell you that AFTER they leave Postal, because if you don't bow down to Lance while you're on the team, you're blackballed. He knows he's in deep this year, so he needs trash talk to play mind games.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to any of us who have followed his career. It was either in OUTSIDE or SI where I saw the most succinct description from others who know him . . . He is a totally black-and-white individual. You are either with him till the end and he will back you up the same way--or you are totally against him, and if you fail even one time to measure up to the perfection he expects of himself AND you, then you will be dropped from his life like a bomb.

He has obviously learned to temper this aspect of his personality, judging from what I have seen the last 5 years. But I think overall that Roy is right. There is no doubt of who's the boss on that team. Heras and Hamilton--and an expanding list of others--may have left to get the chance to captain their own teams. Or they may have left because they finally just got fed up.

I also agree that I would much rather have Jan for a friend or boss than Lance. Lance seems absolutely driven to win at everything. That is great at the tour, but not for being a successful friend, boss, father, or husband.

Just my two cents . . .

BBDave

[weisan]

I do not belong to either the Pro-LA or Anti-LA camp, even though we may live in the same hometown. :D

Can I make just one comment?

I think, in general, most people are a lot less worse than we think of them, and in the same token, people are a lot less good than we should give them credit for. :p

Once you become a public figure, everything you do or say is magnified many times more than normal people.

[Kevin]

I think that I would rather be friends with Lance than Jan. That way when Lances pisses off Ms. Crow I will be right there to comfort her.

Kevin

[Kevan]

You got to admit to one thing, come the end of a successful Tour Lance has provided a powerful thank you to his team mates.

Funny how different sports call for different behaviors. Cycling has its protocol, but for a boxer just signing for a bout, he'll verbally attack anyone that he sees or thinks about.

[bostondrunk]

Kevin <burp>,
I like your <burp> style!

[jeffg]

Let's not jump to conclusions about folks we really know very little about personally. I agree that Lance comes off a bit brash sometimes in his cycling persona; however, I feel somewhat differently having met him at a benefit for his foundation. The event was a roundtable discussion with many folks clamoring for LAs attention. One section of the audience was made up of children from the cancer ward of the local hospital. I will not soon forget how those kids looked at Lance, and how his eyes took on a very different quality when he looked in their direction. He seemed to be paying most attention to them. Indeed, he went and spent time with each of them in a really touching and genuine way. They certainly got top billing, though he seemed very unselfconscious about how he dealt with them. If it was a photo op, Lance should be president since not even Clinton can fake sincerity like that.

Would Jan be a better friend, boss, etc.? Don't know the guy, though he is very popular and well spoken of in the area of southern Germany he lived and trained in until recently. I do get the impression he is a really nice guy. This July, we'll see if this nice guy can finish first.

[MartyE]

Originally posted by weisan
I do not belong to either the Pro-LA or Anti-LA camp, even though we may live in the same hometown. :D

Can I make just one comment?

I think, in general, most people are a lot less worse than we think of them, and in the same token, people are a lot less good than we should give them credit for. :p

Once you become a public figure, everything you do or say is magnified many times more than normal people.

Probably some of the most level headed, non biased and
thoughtful comments I've read when it comes to Lance,
or any public figure come to think of it.

Marty

[BumbleBeeDave]

We are all just blasting away in the dark if we have never really spent any time with the guy.

BBDave