Anyone else hit their pedals with the 8cm bbdrop?

[Rich_W]

I finally had some reasonable weather to ride my new Ottrott... as I've been spending most of the early season on an Orbea Starship.

I'm having a tough time getting used to the 8cm bb drop... and I use look pedals.

I touched a pedal to the ground on a very moderate curve, and it freaked me out.

I'm not liking the low BB at all... it just doesn't feel right.

[JohnS]

What length crankarms do you use? That can make a big difference.

[Kevan]

Sounds like abuse to me.

[Too Tall]

I have a solution. Don't do that.

[flydhest]

Rich,

I'm surprised if you're doing everything you're supposed to and might suggest looking elsewhere for the culprit. My Legend has a 8 BB drop and I was on Looks until just a couple months ago. Turns slow enough to pedal through were no problem and if you're not pedalling through a turn and you clip a pedal . . . you have amazing grip on your tire sidewalls!

You hit a pedal on a "moderate" curve. A drop of, say 7, would give you more clearance, but not the full cm. If you think of a right triangle between a line parallel to the ground and the crank arm, the crank arm is the hypontenuse and an imaginary side from the crank spindle to the line parallel to the ground where the pedal is. Adjusting the BB drop would change the hypontenuse and thus the vertical distance from the pedal to the ground by less than 1 cm. So if you are used to going through moderate turns on a 7 BB drop bike, the difference is less than a cm. I find it hard to believe I could consistently ride through moderate or more curves and keep missing a pedal by less than a cm.

[Sandy]

Nice mathematical analysis, Flydhest.

Russ, I have an Ottrott, use Look pedals, and have 175 mm cranks, and have never had that problem (1,000 miles thus far on the bike). I am not the most aggressive rider. For whatever reason, I feel more secure in leaning the bike than on my other Serotta (7 cm bb drop), and in the instances in which I pushed a little more, following some fast riders around some curves, I did not worry much at all about the problem you stated.

Sandy

[Jeff N.]

Never. But I rarely pedal through turns. I'm no racer. Jeff N.

[Rich_W]

Cranks are 172.5, same as on all my bikes.


Originally posted by Rich_W
I finally had some reasonable weather to ride my new Ottrott... as I've been spending most of the early season on an Orbea Starship.

I'm having a tough time getting used to the 8cm bb drop... and I use look pedals.

I touched a pedal to the ground on a very moderate curve, and it freaked me out.

I'm not liking the low BB at all... it just doesn't feel right.

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by flydhest
Rich,

I'm surprised if you're doing everything you're supposed to and might suggest looking elsewhere for the culprit. My Legend has a 8 BB drop and I was on Looks until just a couple months ago. Turns slow enough to pedal through were no problem and if you're not pedalling through a turn and you clip a pedal . . . you have amazing grip on your tire sidewalls!

You hit a pedal on a "moderate" curve. A drop of, say 7, would give you more clearance, but not the full cm. If you think of a right triangle between a line parallel to the ground and the crank arm, the crank arm is the hypontenuse and an imaginary side from the crank spindle to the line parallel to the ground where the pedal is. Adjusting the BB drop would change the hypontenuse and thus the vertical distance from the pedal to the ground by less than 1 cm. So if you are used to going through moderate turns on a 7 BB drop bike, the difference is less than a cm. I find it hard to believe I could consistently ride through moderate or more curves and keep missing a pedal by less than a cm.


I have no idea... crank is an 04 record, pedals are look CX6 which are definitly bulky. If you hold the bike on a lean with the pedal down, the clearance is not much. About 1cm or less.

[bostondrunk]

try speedplays. they increased my average speed by 2km/hr.......................no wait, that was the training...<burp>

[Sandy]

Rich,

In addition to what I have said, I also have Look CX-6 pedals and have them set to maximize the Q factor for better shoe clearance from the cranks and chain stays. I believe the adustment was 10 mm on each side.

I don't pedal through most corners.

I just compared my CX-6 pedals to the pair of Look pedals I was using, the Look 357. The CX-6 are a little wider towards the back and a little longer (because of the white knob to adjust the degrees of float.

Snail Sandy

[saab2000]

...Looks have never had good cornering clearance. The new Shimanos might be better. Speedplays might be better too.

I will be getting a new bike soon with 8 cm of bb drop. This is the first negative comment I have heard about the lower bb. It is interesting because I have mostly heard that it increases stability.

Something to think about would be different pedals. Sorry to say, but that might be your only option short of not pedalling through corners.

[Dude]

Originally posted by Rich_W
I have no idea... crank is an 04 record, pedals are look CX6 which are definitly bulky. If you hold the bike on a lean with the pedal down, the clearance is not much. About 1cm or less.

Rich-
When you are going through these turns are you leaving your inside pedal down?

[bostondrunk]

Or did you leave your pedal up, but then leaned to such an extreme angle that your hips touched the ground, followed by the Look pedal?
Important facts <burp> we need to know.

[Needs Help]

Nice mathematical analysis, Flydhest

Here's a picture:
http://www.pbase.com/image/26614714.jpg

If you lean over at a 45 degree angle, then your pedal will only be .7cm** or about 1/4 of an inch closer to the street with an 8cm bottom bracket drop versus a 7cm bottom bracket drop.
------------------------

**With a right triangle, the cosine of an angle is equal to the adjacent side over the hypotenuse:

cos (angle) = adjacent / hypotenuse

So, if you are leaning over at 45*, then you have:

cos 45* = ? / 1cm

which gives:

? = cos 45*

and

? = .7cm
-----------
-----------

[Kahuna]

Rich,

I read somewhere that if you have to pedal through corners, you're not going fast enough! :)

Not to scare you but one of the worst crashes I ever saw was due to a friend of ours jamming her pedal around a corner during a crit (Tour of Red Bank) back in the 1980's. Her race was in progress while I was waiting for my race to start next. The field was coming around and then suddenely it was like the twilight zone. Nobody to be seen for like 5 or 10 minutes and then gradually a few women trickled by riding slowly back to their cars with their heads down.

The crash was on the second to last lap and caused a pileup. Several people had to be taken away including our friend Jenny.

She went down hard suffering among other nasty things, multiple fractures to her hip. The crash put an end her competetive cycling career. She was an up and coming racer on the women's national team.

Be careful out there.

-K

[flydhest]

Needs Help,

I'm glad we're on the same side and all, but you're treading dangerously close to my staked out territory of geek-in-residence.

Sheesh! I'm a bigger geek and I've worked out the proof to demonstrate it.

[csb]

...and he's, he's, SAFE!!"

Rich, my Spectrum SuperTi has 7 for a drop, and I ride
Keywin pedals which seem to be tighter to the axle
than my ol'LooKies, and still have given myself some
adrenaline shots, sanding unwanted weight off the
outside edges of my pedals.

Now I whip myself through
the corners shredding a rooster
tail of sparks with my custom s/s knee and elbow guards.

Kinda' reminds of the time I ran over a very surprised
raccoon.

csb

[Sandy]

Now that was REALLY nicely done. Sort of makes Professor Fldhest's nice analysis look.......

Next I hope to see Keith A giving a 3 dimensional action comparison, with discussion and music in the background.

Sine Sandy

[Matt Barkley]

I am having trouble following this thread here. Dude hits his pedal once while pedaling through a corner and questions the 8cm BB drop on his OTTROT (I am a more expensive bike than you) We ask him a few questions like what's your crank length? - and tell him stuff like Man!! Look pedals! I use tadpole comb my hair specials and I don't have that problem.. And stuff like pedaling through corners, be careful, and if you pedal through corners you aren't going fast blah blah blha , "Burp." - The only intelligent or reasonably truthful utterance so for in this thread.

Learn how to ride yer damn bike!!! Before you start criticizing or telling poeple how to ride theirs... Or something... What length crank do you have anyways??!!! Campy Recorn Crankdoodles come in up to a 180mm - You do not have those. You probably have 175 or 172.5 - Dude who sold you your bike probably wasn't smart enough to sell you 170s - NOT FOR CORNERING CLEARANCE I might so politely add...

Pedaling through corners is a great skill. Watch a National Level Crit and see the likes of E.Wohlberg or Mark McCormack demonstrate. You probably don't want to try it to their extreme - and they may in fact have special "AMerican Crit" bikes with slightly higher BBs but that is not the point. THE point is er - or something like this - Ride your bike! If you keep hitting your pedal (MORE THAN ONE ISOLATED INSTANCE) on your new super-duper bike than start to think about maybe keeping that inside pedal UP when you are leaning your bike over at the MAX ANGLE!!Otherwise (as stated by other phorum dudes) you will crash and you will not like that. The solution is not your pedals. and not your BB drop and more than likely not your crank length. IF you WANT to pedal you bike through corners with you bike leaning over a lot - maybe a bike with a higher BB, shorter cranks, and super-duper non-Look pedals is what you want.

W Rich - You probably already know this. Now get out there and grind some pedal!!!

Sincerely, Matt "Pogo Stick" Barkley
:crap: :crap:

[Matt Barkley]

Sorry, to answer your question I regularly clipped Looks with 8 BB drop 172.5 and 170s - and more recently clip the new Dura Ace Lance Pedals with 172.5 and 7 drop. You gotta find that confort zone with your bike. How ride it. Contersteer a little too - that get you a few more pedal strokes sometimes.

[Needs Help]

I am having trouble following this thread here.

I am having trouble following your post. You start off saying it isn't the BB height that matters. Then you say crit riders use higher BB's. Finally, you declare the BB height isn't important, but if you want more pedal clearance get a higher BB. My head hurts. :(

[Matt Barkley]

Point taken there, Needs Help. But I actually AM saying all those things. BB height, crank length, and type of pedal all have a part in scraping yer pedal while turning. But I ramble, you see, that is my non-style... So I was sayin' I beleive all those component things are less relevant than personal riding (not writing) style. If Rich_W only hit his pedal once with his new bike with a 8cm BBdrop, which he knows it has (BB Drop - but hasn't supplied or maybe doesn't know his crank length) - then I am speculating that he should ride his bike more to see if it happens again. If it does and it is happening because he drops his inside leg through a corner while leaning the bike - he's gotta learn the bike - and stop doing that at that angle - or of he insists on repeating it - yeah, get different pedals, shorter cranks... I usually don't recommend that. Enough rambling.
I just think if we got a bunch of guys with 8cm drop BB who complain about scratching their pedals than that is one thing. Maybe it is too soon to draw conclusions with this phorum (Boston Drunk has finished Happy Hour and is moving on to Beacon St for the hard stuff). I don't think we have that, though. I think we have many riders of different experiences and different BB drops - and we were replying with equipment change ideas which I found a little premature.
BB height does matter - but I think what matters more is how you ride your bike and getting used to it and learning its capabilities. They are all different. If you decide you want something different after adequate experimentation (maybe on the most expensive bike out there) then change it. The BB height, the pedals or the cranks. I hate changing pedals , train on and race on one length of crank/q factor, and dislike changing bikes too... Sorry for the confusion. I know I didn't answer anything well. Did you follow any of that?
:confused: :confused:

[jerk]

the jerk can't believe you guys...guess what? if you are hitting your pedals while cornering YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO RIDE A BIKE....the fact of the matter is if you are taking a corner as fast and as hard as you can you will be braking and coasting through the corner with your inside crank up....learn how to corner...if you are cornering hard there is no effin way you will be pedalling through the corner....look at a good kermesse bike 8cm of drop 8.25 for some of the guys like the current belgian national champion...listen buddy, if you want to leisurely pedal through corners go buy a cannondale and pretend you are riding fast because it's obvious your bike handling skills don't yet match your equipment...

jerk
(wow the jerk is on tonight!)

[Needs Help]

jerk
(wow the jerk is on tonight!)

lol. Lit up like a Christmas tree.

[DWF]

"the jerk can't believe you guys...guess what? if you are hitting your pedals while cornering YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO RIDE A BIKE....the fact of the matter is if you are taking a corner as fast and as hard as you can you will be braking and coasting through the corner with your inside crank up....learn how to corner"

Do your braking before you corner. If you're braking through a corner, you don't know how to ride a bike. If you're going to be a jerk, it helps to be right. BTW, after you pass the apex of a hard corner and as the bike & rider starts to recover back to the upright, you can start pedaling. Ride flat chicanes sometimes where you have to pedal whenever possible to maintain or increase pace. If you're used to a higher BB or different pedals, you can strike pedals until you adapt your technique. On long flat sweepers will find youself pedaling if you want to maintain speed, but you shouldn't be dragging pedals either. Not all fast cornering occurs on the downhill sections where you can always count on the luxury of coasting.

[Needs Help]

Do your braking before you corner. If you're braking through a corner, you don't know how to ride a bike. If you're going to be a jerk, it helps to be right.

I believe the jerky man was giving a sequential accounting of cornering technique:

...you will be braking and coasting through the corner with your inside crank up....learn how to corner

Because the jerk was always riding bikes in his formative days, the King's English didn't take well. Translating from jerkish to english, I believe his post meant:

...you will be braking and then coasting through the corner with your inside crank up....learn how to corner

Alas, if the jerk is going to light it up, he best not make jerkish/english mistakes or the wrath of the afflicted will rain down upon his brow.

[saab2000]

....the jerk is a writer. I love a writer who makes a ton of grammatical errors. I mean this in a positive way.

The jerk is, of course, correct. As (almost) always.

His is an opinion I respect. His Euro racing is well known. Mine might not be, but I lived in Europe for about 15 years and raced there a lot. But not mostly in Belgium, though I have done that too, including pro Kermesses with some of the big dogs of Belgian racing.

I digress.

The reason that I respect his words are that they ring true to what I have observed in my time in racing. I raced some fast pro criteriums here in the US and never pedalled through corners. When I did I got nervous. Scraping pedals can cause bad accidents, even among experienced riders. I basically sucked as a crit rider, but I could still finish pro/1/2 races in the main field, so I wasn't that crappy either. At any rate, one does not need to pedal through corners to be fast. For some guys it might help, but not for most.

I prefer stability to the ability to pedal in the turns. The original writer of this thread is likely to come to like his Ottrott with 8 cm of bb drop.

Long live the Jerk!

[jpw]

Never.
Try Coombe pedals. That should solve the 'ground(ing) effect' you are experiencing.

[saab2000]

... and never got used to the lack of a solid feel. This is too bad, because in several points they were the best pedals I have ever seen.

They are quite light, extremely well made, low profile and a couple of other cool things.

But the rider is not held in tightly with springs and even with their adjustable entry/exit "tension" it was possible to come out unintentionally if there was any inadvertant sideways movement of the foot.

Too bad, because otherwise it is a fine design. But I could not think of it as a racing pedal.

[csb]

Just a reminder to keep your pedals up today!

[jpw]

I know what you mean with the inadvertent sideways foot movement, but i've never come out without intending to. Very occasionally i find my right heel moving inside the line and semi locking due to the pitch angle of the foot, but it just needs 'jiggling' free, and that's all. In every other respect i have been completely satisfied. There is no spring, as you say, but that for me is fine. I don't like to feel too locked-in in that unnatural kind of way, where the ankle and especially the knee are being 'told' which line to take against their normal inclination. These pedals will certainly reduce repetitive joint injury. It's a pity for you that they didn't work out.

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by csb
...and he's, he's, SAFE!!"

Rich, my Spectrum SuperTi has 7 for a drop, and I ride
Keywin pedals which seem to be tighter to the axle
than my ol'LooKies, and still have given myself some
adrenaline shots, sanding unwanted weight off the
outside edges of my pedals.

Now I whip myself through
the corners shredding a rooster
tail of sparks with my custom s/s knee and elbow guards.

Kinda' reminds of the time I ran over a very surprised
raccoon.

csb

I hear you bro. I never hit pedals on my 01 compact Legend ti with the 7cm drop. First time out on the Ottrott, I nailed a pedal... definately got that adrenaline spark when the rear wheel skipped out a few inches.

One thing for sure is I'm not willing to change pedal systems... I have 4 road bikes in the stable currently with Lookies.

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by Matt Barkley
I am having trouble following this thread here. Dude hits his pedal once while pedaling through a corner and questions the 8cm BB drop on his OTTROT (I am a more expensive bike than you) We ask him a few questions like what's your crank length? - and tell him stuff like Man!! Look pedals! I use tadpole comb my hair specials and I don't have that problem.. And stuff like pedaling through corners, be careful, and if you pedal through corners you aren't going fast blah blah blha , "Burp." - The only intelligent or reasonably truthful utterance so for in this thread.

Learn how to ride yer damn bike!!! Before you start criticizing or telling poeple how to ride theirs... Or something... What length crank do you have anyways??!!! Campy Recorn Crankdoodles come in up to a 180mm - You do not have those. You probably have 175 or 172.5 - Dude who sold you your bike probably wasn't smart enough to sell you 170s - NOT FOR CORNERING CLEARANCE I might so politely add...

Pedaling through corners is a great skill. Watch a National Level Crit and see the likes of E.Wohlberg or Mark McCormack demonstrate. You probably don't want to try it to their extreme - and they may in fact have special "AMerican Crit" bikes with slightly higher BBs but that is not the point. THE point is er - or something like this - Ride your bike! If you keep hitting your pedal (MORE THAN ONE ISOLATED INSTANCE) on your new super-duper bike than start to think about maybe keeping that inside pedal UP when you are leaning your bike over at the MAX ANGLE!!Otherwise (as stated by other phorum dudes) you will crash and you will not like that. The solution is not your pedals. and not your BB drop and more than likely not your crank length. IF you WANT to pedal you bike through corners with you bike leaning over a lot - maybe a bike with a higher BB, shorter cranks, and super-duper non-Look pedals is what you want.

W Rich - You probably already know this. Now get out there and grind some pedal!!!

Sincerely, Matt "Pogo Stick" Barkley
:crap: :crap:


Matt, this is not the first time I've hit a pedal to the ground... nor it will not be my last. I agree with you totally in saying its not the pedals or crank length. But this is the first bike I've ever owned with such a large drop... plus swapping from one bike to another threw me off.

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by Matt Barkley
Sorry, to answer your question I regularly clipped Looks with 8 BB drop 172.5 and 170s - and more recently clip the new Dura Ace Lance Pedals with 172.5 and 7 drop. You gotta find that confort zone with your bike. How ride it. Contersteer a little too - that get you a few more pedal strokes sometimes.

Exactly... I think my Orbea is a 6.8 drop... and I was definately doggin it on the new bike. Its just a matter of miles on the new machine.

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by jerk
the jerk can't believe you guys...guess what? if you are hitting your pedals while cornering YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO RIDE A BIKE....the fact of the matter is if you are taking a corner as fast and as hard as you can you will be braking and coasting through the corner with your inside crank up....learn how to corner...if you are cornering hard there is no effin way you will be pedalling through the corner....look at a good kermesse bike 8cm of drop 8.25 for some of the guys like the current belgian national champion...listen buddy, if you want to leisurely pedal through corners go buy a cannondale and pretend you are riding fast because it's obvious your bike handling skills don't yet match your equipment...

jerk
(wow the jerk is on tonight!)

OK Jerk,
You must be right... I don't know how to ride a bike at all. I guess attacking me makes you feel like a big man.

[Matt Barkley]

SO does anyone out there have a bike with 8cm BB drop and are you clipping yer pedals? Clipless or otherwise... I wanna know and so does RICH because he posted this thread to find out!!:crap: :banana: :butt: :bike:

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by Matt Barkley
SO does anyone out there have a bike with 8cm BB drop and are you clipping yer pedals? Clipless or otherwise... I wanna know and so does RICH because he posted this thread to find out!!:crap: :banana: :butt: :bike:

Exactly... thanks Matt.

:confused:

[jpw]

Are there any comparisons between how to handle a bike in a corner and how to handle a woman....? A skills transfer even?

[Ray]

I have two bikes with 8cm of drop and one with 7.7cm and have struck a pedal exactly once in about seven years of riding a lot. That was on a reverse camber turn with a rock sticking up out of the asphalt. A *VERY* bad place to be pedaling through a turn. I ride Looks also and don't corner all that agressively on the flats when I might ordinarily be pedalling, but lean it over pretty far on curvy descents - I just don't pedal on those until I'm out of the curve.

I didn't like the bb that low to begin with either, but once you get used to it, you'll never go back.

-Ray

[Roy E. Munson]

I've lost count of how many times I've wacked my pedal in the course of a race season. So what? You clip your peddle, you get it together and keep going. Why someone would do this in anything but a race scenario is beyond me, but it's just one of those things that happens while riding.

[Matt Barkley]

Roy, I am with you. You Makin' cents and I have the same experience - never clipping while riding/training, but many times while racing...

SO Ray is sayin' an 8 drop or therbouts is the way to go. humph... Never going back?...

JPW is on to the riding a bike is a lot like life, and handling a bike in a corner like handling a woman skilz comparison. Sorry - I have never thought of that one. The thought now kindof scares me a little. I am usually just trying not to get gapped on the straight-aways and making low and fast in those corners, uh.. I mean with women?? Is this working?

[jerk]

Originally posted by Rich_W
OK Jerk,
You must be right... I don't know how to ride a bike at all. I guess attacking me makes you feel like a big man.

sorry pal-the jerk didn't mean it as an attack.....the jerk is still the jerk though......(oh, the jerk can't really ride a bike all that well anymore and he has clipped pedals in race situations... all jerk's trying to say is that if you are pedalling through a corner you are not taking the corner as fast as you could....iin general a low bb will allow you to take a corner harder and tighter...that being said racing isn't what we all do....some folks ride more leisurely that the jans, joops, johans and insert flemish name here mixing it up for 15 euro primes around the ghent town hall grand place....anyway...so yeah you were riding your new bike as you would have ridden your old bike....no big deal....all the jerk is saying is that there is really never any NEED to pedal through a corner and no legitimate racing bicycle is designed to be pedaled through hard cornering....anyways....your stem is too short...your seat is probably to low and theres nothing wrong with wearing white bib shorts and a cycling cap with the top cut out....see? jerk is still a jerk

[e-RICHIE]

i'm in the jerk's camp.

8cm drop is the status quo vadis ici.
if you are pedaling through a corner in a race - in a situation
in which it really matters - you're taking the slow line. lean
over. let your rolling speed carry you through past the apex
of the turn.

if you're clipping your pedal on the sunday ride, i don't
have an opinion.

e-RICHIE

ps

:banana: :banana: :banana:
:banana: :banana: :banana:
:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Matt Barkley]

Forget the BB drop issue here... My question is about taking corners in crits. Fast criteriums - (Jerk for some reason I guess I will add Kermesse or however it is spelled) - I have witnessed and experienced many fast crit corners - and my question to both of you is this, Why are you both so seemingly adamant about NOT pedaling "through" or why do you believe it is faster to lean more in to the turn? I kindof agree with you "leaning more into is fast" - SHORTERM but in racing single file coming around a corner so fast there really only is one line and the guy in front of you is putting out monster power PEDALING through - I will get gapped on the same line - or make my own line a bit leaning my weight to the inside - but that never seems to work unless I have the energy to pass the dude in fornt of me (after 65 laps or a 85 lapper I am too tired to do this move each lap and it pisses guys off behind you) Jerk says - never any need to pedal through a corner?? Get my drift. Racing and real world and theory are different? I just think there is a bit more to the discussion - and both of your stated (brief) opinions may be just that - brief. Kapeesch?


when it matters

[e-RICHIE]

matt wrote
"Racing and real world and theory are different?"


my experience is from racing. i'm er, a cat 2 (and i'm
not suggesting anything by that) and i feel that if the
cornering in question is still before the field splits, then
it's likely not "death grip time". eye eee: i can't accept
group cornering as being a real acid test of either "speed"
or "the ability to lean it over further".
now - go out and corner like freddy spencer!!

e-RICHIE

ps

go HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt Barkley]

Yo, E-Ritchie, - I am in the same camp as you category-wise (Cat 2)- not to mean anything by that besides my experience of numerous National Level crits as well as some fast ones up in your neck of the woods. Big and or wide corners where the likes of (insert your domestic pro's name here) takes it as fast as he can - stringing out the field (or break-away) - these guys are pedaling - single-file... There are corners tighter where these guys are not pedaling, rather are they are skipping and shuddering their bikes through trying to not hit the furthest curb on the outside of the corner - I aint talkiing 'bout these... I ain't talking about "group cornering" either - unless our definitions are different. Hey, you can always "lean it over further" - but will you get through that corner faster with the boyz? With me?

[jerk]

yeah...what e-richie said.....jerk's experience is also from racing although if the jerk raced right now it would be to the beer store 10 minutes before closing time but the jerk digresses.... fact of the matter is you don't pedal through corners if you are going balls out because you can't....if you are drafting a slow line early in the race i guess it sort of makes sense but then again my racing experience is all in the land of moules and frites and the one thing about races over there is they all start out super super fast....if you can't step on it right away your going to be spit out the back real quick....the rythm of the laps in most of the jerk's racing never really allowed for what you (matt) are talking about. jerk is slow and fat and opinionated as hell but rides his bike the same way he always did....as if he's racing or training to race....riding to me is still more akin to really rewarding work than leisure or fun.....but who cares?

(p.s. the more the jerk shoots the sh9t on this forum the more he realizes that e-richie is the freaking man and has forgotton more about bikes than most of us will ever know....and the jerk knows a lot. jesus, does the jerk have to get in line for a sachs since columbus won't make dario's freaking emma chainstays?)

[e-RICHIE]

i think i'm gonna take the high road and just
say that i second and third the jerk because
he sounds like a guy i can party with and - more
importantly - a guy i trust sitting behind, leaned
over at 33mph.
the only question left for me is: chocolate? flowers?
vermont teddy bears? what can i send the jerk
for being so, er - uber with it?
suggestions?

e-RICHIE

ps

:fight: :fight: :fight:
:fight: :fight: :fight:
:fight: :fight: :fight:

[Matt Barkley]

You guys sit on each others wheels at 33mph! E-Ritchie - I still want one of your bikes, I think, if I can afford. Can you build me one so I can pedal through corners?

We understand what you guys are saying - but it doesn't apply all the time. Sometimes pedaling ALL the way through a corner is the fastest way PERIOD. (Unless you have rockets strapped to your back)

Jerk - Just ask Harold about, " dippin' Lobsta' in the Buttah"

[e-RICHIE]

(oh - THAT matt barkley!!!!!)

ok. here's the deal. i'll say what i have to say,
alienate a few dozen people, and then get ready
to lick my, er, wounds.

irrespective of the original post, why are so many
people fixated about pedaling through a corner,
especially in a race?! in my not-so-humble opinion,
races are not won or lost in corners. if cornering at
speed gives you a "personal jesus" moment, then
work on some fitness and tactics that will let you
leave your imprint on the race. the most important
thing i ever learned about racing was - someone
has to win each race. it might as well be you. don't
lament about your bike on race day. it's an even
playing field. work on the attitude.

win one for the gipper.

e-RICHIE
leaving for shelter...

ps

:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:
:beer: :beer: :beer:

[Matt Barkley]

Absolutely. Agreed. I actually much prefer NOT to pedal at speed while cornering. I just find I have had to - in corners in past races - and all the big dogs were doing it - so why shouldn't I? Fact was - I had to...

Agreed - fixation on pedaling through corners and all - and It ain't the bike - which was what myself and Jerk were mumbling earlier.

Man have I need of some fresh air and beer.

E-Ritchie and Jerk::beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :argue: :beer: :banana: :beer:

[Roy E. Munson]

I think what has to be considered here is the corner itself. Some just aren't that sharp so you can run through it full throttle, still pedalling. Others are just too sharp, so it's easier to roll through and not pedal. Strictly a situational thing.

[Matt Barkley]

Thanks Roy. I feel like I am tripping over my own words on this phorum here...

E-Ritchie - You mentioned what you've learned about bike racing - that someone has to win, it might as well be you. I like that. I have eaten so much humble pie it is nice to hear those positive thoughts.

Jerk - How you be knowin' so much about all this trail stuff and BB height? I was really curious about everyone's take on this BB Height thing - I have never understood the BB height thing - I just know lower BBs have felt stable and good (besides my Dream Cross higher - I think I liked it - where are your's E-Ritchie) - but have always heard higher BBs were used by some pros for crits. Would you disagree? I like you comments on the lower BB better cornering thing - counter to a lot of American builder's thought? Would you agree? WHere can I get an ADA BB? - Matt

:beer:

[Rich_W]

Originally posted by jerk
white bib shorts and a cycling cap with the top cut out....see? jerk is still a jerk

OK Jerk... apology accepted. Well... no white bib shorts in my closet, but I have been known to wear a cycling cap with the top cut out on hot days!

BTW, my stem is a 12

[Climb01742]

man, this thread feels like the old days. cool. thanks for the knowledge and entertainment. :beer:

[jpw]

Yes, but will it ever end?