Old Racing T front D work with 11 speed triple ergos?

[DfCas]

I have a several old racing Triple front derailleurs, and I'm thinking about getting 11 speed Athena triple ergolevers. Will they work OK or will I have trim problems?

[oliver1850]

Seems not many have used the new triples yet. Try it and report back.

[mccx]

It works.

I have a 'Shimergo' bike set up with 11 speed Chorus ergos, a 9 speed Racing T front derailleur, a Sugino XD-600 triple crank, a 105 rear derailleur, and 9 speed SRAM cassette that shifts cleanly with no rub, even if cross-chained.

There's a small margin of error on getting the cable tension right to avoid any rubbing, but it can and does work. I think the 11 speed ultrashift and 10 speed ultrashift ergos supposed had identical design (if not materials) in the left levers, so any ultrashift ergo should be able to work a Campagnolo triple FD.

FWIW a Shimano (105-5503) front derailleur didn't work for me with the 11 speed ergos. The spring was too tight and overpowered the ratchet in the shifter.

[mccx]

Meant to add...

There may be an issue with cage width though if you're using an 11 speed chain. The wider Racing T FD might have to move further than an 11sp FD would to shift that chain, and I can't verify that the levers can move the FD far.

This is with an ultrashift left hand lever though - I haven't used Powershift and I suspect the different shifting style on the left lever may be very different. Are you set on Athena levers or would you consider Chorus?

[Ralph]

The new triples are either 30-39-52 or 30-39-50. As I recall....the Racing T's were 30-40-50, 30-42-52, and 32-42-52. The "groves" in the FD were designed to pick up the chain at those points. But....those were a lot of different points to design for. I imagine the new FD's are a little more closely designed for the intended cranks, and the cages may be a tad closer together....don't know if that will cause a problem with the 11's down shift. If it doesn't want to down shift well, put one of those resin spacers in the nose of the FD. But I bet the old FD's will work. Nothing to lose by trying.

[DfCas]

I need triple, and I'm contemplating Athena. I plan to go the Campy 11 Shimergo 9 route with a Shimano rear derailleur, and a 9 speed chain. I may do multiple bikes, and not buying 3 front derailleurs may tip me to do it.

[Dave]

If you've got time to spare, it wouldn't hurt to try your old FDs, but there may be issues, depending on the crank you're using and it's chainline. Another issue is the limited trimming ability of a power-shift lever. If the cage position, isn't right when you're in the middle ring, the powershift lever won't have the trimming ability of an ultrashift lever, that has 6 clicks.

I've used an FSA 53/39/28 triple with older Record 10 shifters, but when the chain width was reduced to 5.9mm, the combination of the thinner chain and a 46mm chainline required the cage to be narrower, in order to shift to the little ring. I little squeeze in a vise fixed that problem.

I've measure the cable pull of an ultrashift left lever and found it to have about .65 inch of pull, which is a little more than the .60 inch that I needed for my triple setup.

If you're in a hurry, I'd get the matching triple FD from Campy. It would be interesting to know if an ultrashift levers have enough travel to operate the new triple FDs.

[DfCas]

If you've got time to spare, it wouldn't hurt to try your old FDs, but there may be issues, depending on the crank you're using and it's chainline. Another issue is the limited trimming ability of a power-shift lever. If the cage position, isn't right when you're in the middle ring, the powershift lever won't have the trimming ability of an ultrashift lever, that has 6 clicks.

I've used an FSA 53/39/28 triple with older Record 10 shifters, but when the chain width was reduced to 5.9mm, the combination of the thinner chain and a 46mm chainline required the cage to be narrower, in order to shift to the little ring. I little squeeze in a vise fixed that problem.

I've measure the cable pull of an ultrashift left lever and found it to have about .65 inch of pull, which is a little more than the .60 inch that I needed for my triple setup.

If you're in a hurry, I'd get the matching triple FD from Campy. It would be interesting to know if an ultrashift levers have enough travel to operate the new triple FDs.

Dave- are you saying an 11 ultrashift DOUBLE lever may pull enough cable to operate my old Racing T fronts? I'd prefer the increased trim options and may increase my chance of success. That means Chorus or higher, right?

[Dave]

Yes, a double shifter should be able to operate a triple. In the past there never was any double or triple shifter. A double had 12 clicks, when only 7 were needed for a triple. That has changed, though. A double ultrashift lever now has 6 clicks, but only 3 are used for a double FD.

The most common mistake made when setting up a Campy triple is failure to apply enough cable tension. Unless you apply so much tension that the lever arm does not touch the small ring limit screw, then some cable travel is doing nothing but taking up slack.

With the older model shifters, it took a full sweep of the finger lever (5 clicks) to shift from the little ring to the middle ring, followed by one click of the thumb button to recenter the cage. Those who failed to apply enough cable tension thought it took two movements of the finger lever to shift to the middle ring.

[Ralph]

I'm using a 2010 Centaur (new design) Ultra Shift lever to work a Record 10's triple FD. With a lot of cable tension, it upshifts to middle ring in 3 clicks, and to large ring in another 2 clicks. But....these are Record rings with 8 pins to aid shifting. With Centaur rings and 6 pins, shifting not as good, and with TA Vento rings with 4 pins....I have trouble making the shift....takes 3 clicks. Have to move the FD a tad more out. But like Dave said....the cable tension almost is the stop. Most of the triple shifting issues I see are because of lack of tension.

I'm considering switching my Power Shift Centaurs to this combo.....and will have to get the FD positioning just right.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a several old racing Triple front derailleurs, and I'm thinking about getting 11 speed Athena triple ergolevers. Will they work OK or will I have trim problems?

You will have shifting problems. Since the triple innards of the Powershift levers are positional, that FD won't work. Get a triple, Athena 11s FD.

If you have 2009 SR/Record/Chorus/Athena 11s ULTRASHIFT, yes, it will work as a triple, most any FD. For Powershift-and the triple is new for 2013, you need the specific FD, whether it be double or triple.

[oldpotatoe]

It works.

I have a 'Shimergo' bike set up with 11 speed Chorus ergos, a 9 speed Racing T front derailleur, a Sugino XD-600 triple crank, a 105 rear derailleur, and 9 speed SRAM cassette that shifts cleanly with no rub, even if cross-chained.

There's a small margin of error on getting the cable tension right to avoid any rubbing, but it can and does work. I think the 11 speed ultrashift and 10 speed ultrashift ergos supposed had identical design (if not materials) in the left levers, so any ultrashift ergo should be able to work a Campagnolo triple FD.

FWIW a Shimano (105-5503) front derailleur didn't work for me with the 11 speed ergos. The spring was too tight and overpowered the ratchet in the shifter.

Chorus LH lever innards are completely different than 2011 Athena Powershift, including 2013 Athena triple.

[mccx]

Yep. Sorry, meant to clarify that in my second post. Ultrashift levers work a 9 speed RacingT FD with a 9 speed chain. If it's Powershift levers you'll need a similar series/speed FD and an 11 speed chain (b/c the 11sp chain is too narrow for the 9sp FD).

Chorus LH lever innards are completely different than 2011 Athena Powershift, including 2013 Athena triple.

[oldpotatoe]

Yep. Sorry, meant to clarify that in my second post. Ultrashift levers work a 9 speed RacingT FD with a 9 speed chain. If it's Powershift levers you'll need a similar series/speed FD and an 11 speed chain (b/c the 11sp chain is too narrow for the 9sp FD).

Almost. Don't use an 11s chain on anything but a 11s cogset. If the shifters are anything but Powershift, the 11s chain isn't too narrow for the FD, since the LH shifter is a ratcheting friction..just more the chain farther. match chain to cogset, not derailleur/

[DfCas]

I ended up getting Chorus Ultrashifts, and they work fine. They don't pull as much cable as my old 9 speed did, but they pull enough for the old racing T front derailleur. The 11 speed works great with a Shimano rear derailleur on a Shimano 9 speed cassette, so I'm quite happy. Only 4 more bikes to upgrade...