has anyone taken the new Merlin website for a ride?

[eddief]

I have a masters degree in something and for the life of me I find the new website and marketing approach sorta silly and difficult to figue out. Why two separate lines of bikes? What's the difference?

http://www.merlinbike.com/

[Tom Kellogg]

You may want to read about the two lines to see the differences. Just a thought. All sarcasm aside, I have to say that even though almost all Merlins are titanium, they have taken a more no nonsense approach with the works frames. No attempt to make them pretty, just make them go. The other thing, and this is purely marketing, is the face they put on the two lines. The classic line (the frames that have been around for a while) is marketed as more of a "lifestyle" line while the Works bikes are marketed as competition bikes. You can see it in the photos and the copy editing. As it turns out, you can see it in the actual bikes as well, but without actually seeing them in person, it isn't too obvious. Like I said, they are all titanium anyway.

[Lifelover]

I have a masters degree in something and for the life of me I find the new website and marketing approach sorta silly and difficult to figue out. Why two separate lines of bikes? What's the difference?

http://www.merlinbike.com/

No masters degree but I must agree with you. Than again I'm a lazy surfer. I don't want to have to dig to understand.

[ClutchCargo]

You may want to read about the two lines to see the differences. Just a thought. All sarcasm aside, . . .

Well, isn't Merlin owned by Litespeed now anyway? I wonder about that strategy. They may have been going after market share, but part of Merlin's appeal has always been that of a boutique maker and I wonder whether demand for Merlin bikes will survive ownership by Litespeed.

(is Seven next?)

[Ray]

Well, isn't Merlin owned by Litespeed now anyway? I wonder about that strategy. They may have been going after market share, but part of Merlin's appeal has always been that of a boutique maker and I wonder whether demand for Merlin bikes will survive ownership by Litespeed.

(is Seven next?)
Haven't they been owned by Litespeed's parent company for a few years now? I don't know how healthy they are, but they seem to have survived it thusfar anyway. And based on the quality of the Spectrums being built in Tennessee these days, it doesn't seem that there's been any drop-off there.

-Ray

[saab2000]

Why does everyone think association with Litespeed is bad? I have a Merckx Majestic titanium made by them and it seems to be a decent bike. It is my only ever titanium bike so I have no frame of reference. But assuming that other 3/2.5 framesets are similar, then I sort of know what they are about.

The welds on my Merckx-speed seem as good as any others (with the possible exception of Moots) and the frame is straight.

I know that tube diameter and geometry have a lot to do with the whole picture too, but Merckx is known to be picky in this department.

Anyway, I met the original Litespeed family (I don't remember their names) at Superweek in 1987 or so. They were racing on shiny welded bikes at a time when lugged steel was essentially the only game in town. Anything else was a wierd oddity. They spoke with a bizarre accent (remember, I grew up in Wisconsin) from Tennesee and said that this was the future. Well, they were very partly right. Titanium took off.

Litespeed may not be perfect, but they're not evil either. Their Vortex model sort of intrigues me.

I have heard of Litespeed in many circles spoken about as if they were the Borg and nobody will survive assimilation. Not so much here, but maybe a bit here too.

All that said, I have also heard that their bikes weren't too popular with Lotto when they were riding them.

[Ray]

I think Litespeed gets a bad rap mostly because they're not exclusive enough - too popular, too mainstream. The Trek of titanium. I owned one of their bikes once and didn't love it, but it was the geometry, not anything to do with the quality of the tubes or welds or alignment. I also had a Litespeed built Merckx and liked it a lot. And now I have a Litespeed built Spectrum that is my #1 ride. I also think Litespeed overdoes it in the marketing dept - too many wierd tube shapes for my taste. But who doesn't to that?

-Ray

[eddief]

my intention in my origianl post was not to disparage the Merlin product in any way. I was simply questioning the clarity of the sales approach. I would guess the rider who is looking at a Merlin has a reasonable amount of brain power (assumption on my part) and that a multimillion dollar company might want to deliver a clearer message in order to sell more product.

[Argos]

I get it. Now that I look at it, at least. It's a way to get Merlin back under some racers so when they get older they buy the Classics.

I like the One model 4 version thing to.

As a matter of fact, Tom, if you need someone in Raleigh to ride a 51cm TR of either level of material, PM me and I'll send you my address.. :D

Seriously though, (though Tom, you are more then welcome to take the above seriously, too) I like it. The Works is sorta a return to how they started. Nice Job. I'd ride it.

[Litespeeder]

Saying that the Litespeed line is the "Trek of Titanium" is a bit of ignorance. First of all, the Litespeed frames are at least as expensive as the Serotta Ti offerings. Anyone who owns a litespeed Vortex or Ultimate or Ghisallo could have purchased a legend and pocketed $500 in the process. And yet, these litespeed models are much better sellers than anything serotta has to offer.

I would guess that the merlin line is not selling very well these days. Merlin is trying to build more race oriented frames at a lower cost to make themselves more marketable. Many of these frame builders are just breaking even and more than a few are just getting by. There is really nothing inovative about merling ti frames anymore. Seven and many others are building better quality frames at a lower price point. Merlin needs to change if they want to stay in business. That's probably why they are offering this new second line of bikes.

:bike:

[vaxn8r]

Saying that the Litespeed line is the "Trek of Titanium" is a bit of ignorance. First of all, the Litespeed frames are at least as expensive as the Serotta Ti offerings. Anyone who owns a litespeed Vortex or Ultimate or Ghisallo could have purchased a legend and pocketed $500 in the process. And yet, these litespeed models are much better sellers than anything serotta has to offer.....


I don't get your logic.....honestly.

I understood the point Ray was making. And I didn't feel it was disparaging. IMO he was saying LS does not have an "exclusive" name. Kinda like Trek doesn't because there are a lot of them out there on the road. Doesn't mean the either of bikes are not good. He could have made the comparison with Cannondale equally and I wouldn't have taken offense.

It seems every time you post something it comes around to disparaging Serotta. I would think you could find a way to speak your mind without so much attacking. For example, your second paragraph was well thought out, nice tone. Keep that up and you'll be a regular here in no time.

BTW, I own a LS so it's not about being defensive.

[Ray]

Saying that the Litespeed line is the "Trek of Titanium" is a bit of ignorance. First of all, the Litespeed frames are at least as expensive as the Serotta Ti offerings. Anyone who owns a litespeed Vortex or Ultimate or Ghisallo could have purchased a legend and pocketed $500 in the process. And yet, these litespeed models are much better sellers than anything serotta has to offer.
Like Vax suggested, I wasn't trying to dis Litespeed at all, just explain what I think is a common perception about them. I think they make fine bikes for the most part. If anything, I was being mildly critical of people who find them not to be exclusive enough because what's that about really? A great bike is a great bike and Litespeed builds a bunch of them. The stock Litespeed geometry didn't work well for me, but like I mentioned, the Merckx I used to have (and liked a lot) and the Spectrum that's my everyday rider now were both built by Litespeed and I have nothing but praise for those.

Really, when you're talking about high end ti frames from Litespeed, Merlin, Serotta, Seven, Spectrum, Moots, and probably a few others, "quality" is sort of a silly concept to debate. They're all incredibly well made and well designed bikes and it really comes down to which one fits you best and rides the way you like it.

-Ray

[Dr. Doofus]

gee

there's a cheap works frame that is probably like a lot of other cheap ti frames

there's an expensive works frame that is probably like a lot of other expensive ti frames

the works geos are identical to the classic geos

duh duh duh

two stupid bikes from the same stupid material with the same stupid geo will ride a lot alike, stupid.

the major difference is the decals and the stupid sloping top tube

some sorry s**t

doof will happily diss abg

shops shouldn't have to align ti frames when they arrive

domestic pro team rigs shouldn't break

euro pro teams shouldn't have to ride silver-painted c-40s

[bluesea]

but they seem to have survived it thusfar anyway. -Ray

Its not they anymore. Its them, or it.

[Ray]

Its not they anymore. Its them, or it.
True enough. But as long as TK is designing the bikes for one of "them" and not the other them (both thems making up most of the it), the first them in question retains a bit of "they" status. To me anyway :bike:

-Ray

[eddief]

This is the offending statement sounding like a speech delivered by Condi Rice...

"The Works line is easier to understand than it seems at first. The line is really just one model ... with two options. But with these Works options, we have added additional levels of performance never before available in titanium frames.

What are the options? With a Merlin Works, you have a choice of either traditional or compact geometry and either 3/2.5 or 6/4 tubing. Simple as that, two alloys and two geometries make four Works bikes from one model."

Then when you look at the top bar on the web page there are 5 road frames and 2 mountain frames. That's seven somethings.

Now what is it really?

[Lifelover]

This is the offending statement that sounds like Condi Rice talking...

"The Works line is easier to understand than it seems at first. The line is really just one model ... with two options. But with these Works options, we have added additional levels of performance never before available in titanium frames.

What are the options? With a Merlin Works, you have a choice of either traditional or compact geometry and either 3/2.5 or 6/4 tubing. Simple as that, two alloys and two geometries make four Works bikes from one model."

Then when you look at the top bar on the web page there are 5 road frames and two mountain frames. That's seven somethings.

Now what is it really?

My concern was with the home page. Since the "Works" and the "Classic" boxes are contacting each other, the pointer on my mouse did not distinguish that it was two different options.

Knowing nothing about Merlin I could have easily clicked into one of them and thought that was the entire line up.

Some separation or a one line explanation would make it clearer.

My comment was only about the website, not the bikes.

However, the engraved lugs on the Cielo do look great. If you have not seen them in person you should make an effort to.

[davids]

However, the engraved lugs on the Cielo do look great. If you have not seen them in person you should make an effort to.
I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, they're the ugliest decoration ever seen on a bicycle, and proof positive that Merlin has lost its way.

But I could be wrong.

[rshoop]

I hear a lot of people raving about brand X's weld quality. I wonder how you can visually evaluate the quality of a weld. My wife as a Litespeed, and the welds look precise. I have a Fierte Ti, and the welds look precise. I suspect it's what's under the visible surface that matters though. Enough of this sophomoric evaluation of titanium welds by visual appearance :crap:

[saab2000]

I agree that the quality of the welds is just a cosmetic thing. But there are people who like cosmetic things and are apparently willing to pay for it. I have seen some crappy Ti welding, but none ever on a higher-end 'name' bike.

I don't think anyone would disagree that how a bike fits/rides/handles is the most important thing. But looks do matter after those factors.