Email this guy and tell him he's an idiot

[bluto]

Sad piece of journalism hitting the newspaper in Salina. Steve Tilford has the right idea in my opinion.

The fact the writer chose that "mocking" title in a case where someone died is unacceptable.

http://stevetilford.com/2013/06/06/email-this-guy-and-tell-him-hes-an-asshole/

[Bikerist]

Not sure I understand the problem.

Unless I'm missing something, all I saw was an article with a guy saying that sometimes it is not safe to ride a bike even when it is legal to ride a bike.

Seems like very sound advice to me.

[mktng]

The article seems fine to me. Not really bashing cyclists. He's right about the safety part + asking riders to be careful. He also said he wants to keep them around.

The article title though. Could be offensive .. i guess? We're all training for the tdf aren't we?

[572cv]

Not sure I understand the problem.

Unless I'm missing something, all I saw was an article with a guy saying that sometimes it is not safe to ride a bike even when it is legal to ride a bike.

Seems like very sound advice to me.


I have to agree with this post. If you have seen the size of the equipment being used even on smaller New England farms these days, you have to realize that they can overwhelm a small (county) road. I don't know from Kansas, but during the gathering of silage or hay or corn or whatever, around here you have to try to give a good bit of leeway to the farmers, who also have a right to use the road with farm equipment. Generally, its easy to tell they are there if one is on a bike- they are back and forth from field to barn so often that road has a good amount of debris (stalks, husks, pods, etc.) so indicating.

And with regard to everyone's right to use the road, none of us, not the towns and states or country can afford to build to accommodate the worst case situation of road use. We rely on a certain amount of overlap and build to some reasonable width, along with the other standards. That means making adjustments to account for unusual situations every so often.

I still remember when a local farmer here used to drive his herd down the main road to summer pasture once a year.It was about 3 miles. NO ONE could use the road then, twice a year, once up, once back. In Switzerland, it is celebrated and a tourist attraction.

[roguedog]

ok.. i'm not the only one. i read it as prudent advice to cyclists in the area. not much different than when my local cycling groups send out "heads up" emails regarding construction on certain roads to advise taking different routes.

i have no idea bout farming but i woudl guess harvest is a crazy time of year for farmers and they are probably work long hard hours out there. tired drivers in huge vehicles on narrow roads - not good combo to be out there?

[tuxbailey]

I don't see a problem with the article. They actually said they want to keep the riders around, just pointing out that it is more dangerous during harvest.

[tuxbailey]

ok.. i'm not the only one. i read it as prudent advice to cyclists in the area. not much different than when my local cycling groups send out "heads up" emails regarding construction on certain roads to advise taking different routes.

i have no idea bout farming but i woudl guess harvest is a crazy time of year for farmers and they are probably work long hard hours out there. tired drivers in huge vehicles on narrow roads - not good combo to be out there?

Have you seen how big those harvesting combine is? I wouldn't want to be sucked into that.

[gdw]

The article isn't offensive and the asses are the folks who write the paper complaining about the piece.

[bluto]

Regardless of what time of year i feel that all should be given equal respect on road.

I also feel that with a recent death on the road it is a litle insensitive and demeaning to say "you're not training for the olympics." I found it in bad taste. If you did not, that's great too.

[PQJ]

Article seems reasonable enough to me, even if the title itself is a little 'off.'

Speaking of combine harvesters, this is one of my favorite comedy skits involving them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaYXWAZmPfI

[Likes2ridefar]

The few things I've read by Tilford, I've tended to agree with. like why is francisco mancebo racing in the USA?

but this, echoed, seems to be decent advice. yeah, it stinks but it is what it is and I don't really see the point of harassing these people.

[redir]

You guys got to be kidding. The title of the article is "You are not training for the Olympics" and then goes on to take the opportunity of a dead cyclist and minimize his life as isn't even of Olympic quality and hardly worth it, and then go on to say, get off my roads or else!

And don't have a problem with it? Sheesh.

[shovelhd]

I didn't read it that way, but I also didn't like the training reference and the pointed jab at Tilly. He's not training for the Olympics, but he is a world champion cyclist that is well known in the area. I find it hard to believe that the editor's comments were not directed at him.

[MattTuck]

I have heard that authors don't typically write the headlines for their own pieces. it is the editors. Of course, this piece was written by an editor... so who knows.

I'm not training for the olympics. few are.

Of course, I'd like to see the same basic article with the title 'You're not training for NASCAR or the BAJA 500', explaining the importance of obeying the rules of the road which include driving at a safe speed, passing slower moving vehicles with caution and and at a safe distance, and then not fleeing the seen when you commit vehicular manslaughter...

[Jeff N.]

The title should've been, "Stay off country roads on your bike during harvest time", or something equally benign. Other than that, I see nothing wrong. Jeff N.

[goonster]

Have you seen how big those harvesting combine is? I wouldn't want to be sucked into that.
I have spent enough time on and around harvesters to know that they turn the sucking off when on the road.

[Likes2ridefar]

I have spent enough time on and around harvesters to know that they turn the sucking off when on the road.

Not when they are trying to commit homicide!

[rugbysecondrow]

Not when they are trying to commit homicide!

This is a ridiculous statement.

[Likes2ridefar]

This is a ridiculous statement.

Thought it fit right in.

[aramis]

It seems a lot like the author is blaming the hit and run death of a cyclist on the cyclist instead of on the idiot that hit and killed him and then ran like a coward.

How about an article saying people driving need to pay attention and shouldn't leave someone dead/dying on the road and act like a human being?

Nah that wouldn't make sense.

[SamIAm]

It sounds like the victim was hit by a passenger van, what does this have to do with harvest season?

[bikingshearer]

Okay, all the editorial said was bicyclists should stay off county roads during harvest season (apparetnly the entire monthy of June) because the roads are needed for farm machinery, trucks, etc., to have the roads to themselves to speed, take the entire road, or both. If this is an acceptable reason to believe cyclists should have a month-long self-imposed ban on using the [public roads, why isn't reason for non-farmer car drivers to self-impose the same ban?

That should make it obvious why this editorial, however benignly intrended, is flat-out wrong. I don't care who you are or why you are using the road; you have an obligation to use the roads safely, share them with others, and stop thiinkiing and acting like rules do not apply to you. Period.

[regularguy412]

Okay, all the editorial said was bicyclists should stay off county roads during harvest season (apparetnly the entire monthy of June) because the roads are needed for farm machinery, trucks, etc., to have the roads to themselves to speed, take the entire road, or both. If this is an acceptable reason to believe cyclists should have a month-long self-imposed ban on using the [public roads, why isn't reason for non-farmer car drivers to self-impose the same ban?

That should make it obvious why this editorial, however benignly intrended, is flat-out wrong. I don't care who you are or why you are using the road; you have an obligation to use the roads safely, share them with others, and stop thiinkiing and acting like rules do not apply to you. Period.

^^^ This ^^^

Mike in AR:beer:

[Likes2ridefar]

That should make it obvious why this editorial, however benignly intrended, is flat-out wrong. I don't care who you are or why you are using the road; you have an obligation to use the roads safely, share them with others, and stop thiinkiing and acting like rules do not apply to you. Period.

Since this doesn't happen anywhere in the world that I've ever been, I'd take the advice and stay out of that area for a month.

[regularguy412]

Since this doesn't happen anywhere in the world that I've ever been, I'd take the advice and stay out of that area for a month.

To quote Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart when speaking to the future Queen of England -- " This is how slaves are made".

Also " For evil to flourish, good men need only do nothing" -- attributed to many including : John Stuart Mill, Edmund Burke, Plato and Leo Tolstoy

Mike in AR:beer:

[Likes2ridefar]

To quote Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart when speaking to the future Queen of England -- " This is how slaves are made".

Also " For evil to flourish, good men need only do nothing" -- attributed to many including : John Stuart Mill, Edmund Burke, Plato and Leo Tolstoy

Mike in AR:beer:

i guess you gotta go somehow.

[rugbysecondrow]

To quote Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart when speaking to the future Queen of England -- " This is how slaves are made".

Also " For evil to flourish, good men need only do nothing" -- attributed to many including : John Stuart Mill, Edmund Burke, Plato and Leo Tolstoy

Mike in AR:beer:

Mike in AR, we are now talking slaves and evil>

Here is the other (less promoted) editorial written in the same paper.

http://salina.com/search/Bicycle-death-for-WEDNESDAY--6-5-13

Imagine living with this
Wednesday, June 05, 2013 3:05 AM
.PreviousNext.PreviousNext
▼ RELATED
The death on Friday of bicyclist Gail Kline, 49, of Delphos, should reinforce in all of us who drive and ride bicycles on streets and roads the fine line between a healthy exercise and serious injury or even death.


Just after 8 a.m. Friday, Kline was riding west on West Crawford and nearing Burma Road when she was struck by a vehicle. The driver didn't stick around, but with the public's help the Saline County Sheriff's Office soon arrested Lewis Crider, 62, of Salina.

Kline was found in a ditch by Salinan Jerry Hurde. What Hurde saw "... turned my stomach a bit," Hurde told reporter Chris Hunter. Kline was found under her bike, bloody and unresponsive.

"Her eyes were in a fixed position. Her eyes were wrong and her lips were a deep purple. I didn't think she was with us anymore."

As Hurde noted, West Crawford is not a particularly safe road, because many drivers drive over to the right, and there is no shoulder, leaving little margin for error. That would be true for most county roads, but some roads are safer than others by virtue of the amount of traffic they carry.

Most drivers have never ridden a bicycle on county roads and thus have no idea what it's like to have someone come within inches of ending their life as they drive by. They merely get irritated that they have to pull over (or not) a little into the passing lane to get around a bicyclist.

But Kline's death should remind all of us that bicyclists are more than an irritant that causes you to lose a second here or there; they are fellow human beings. When you fly by within a foot or two of them, you're coming close to causing serious injury or death.

We don't know who was at fault here, but even when the bicyclist is in the right after a collision such as this, it doesn't matter.

What we ask is that the next time motorists get in a hurry and irritated at a bicyclist, imagine being in Hurde's position, down in a ditch holding a bloody and dying person. Imagine that you were the one who hit the cyclist and how that would affect your life.

Now try to imagine living with that.

-- Ben Wearing

Executive Editor

[yoshirider]

Both of his articles are insensitive. I bet people wouldn't have reacted the way they did if he showed some compassion. Sure, Hurde may have nightmares for the rest of his life. But what about Kline and Klein's family? They're the victims here.

These days people don't give a damn about another human life unless it's an unborn fetus. Unbelievable

[Aaron O]

It seems a lot like the author is blaming the hit and run death of a cyclist on the cyclist instead of on the idiot that hit and killed him and then ran like a coward.

How about an article saying people driving need to pay attention and shouldn't leave someone dead/dying on the road and act like a human being?

Nah that wouldn't make sense.

+1 - if it said something like:

Cyclist killed - EVERYONE REMEMBER to be careful and follow the laws and cyclists - consider alternate routes.

I'd have no problem with it. This is inflammatory IMO - the title suggests all cyclists are hobbyists, have no real need to be on the road and should stay away because others are being reckless.

[Louis]

If that area's at all like the St Louis area it's only a matter of time until a local politico proposes a ban on cyclists on county road XYZ at any time of year "because it's just not safe for them."

[rugbysecondrow]

Both of his articles are insensitive. I bet people wouldn't have reacted the way they did if he showed some compassion. Sure, Hurde may have nightmares for the rest of his life. But what about Kline and Klein's family? They're the victims here.

These days people don't give a damn about another human life unless it's an unborn fetus. Unbelievable

I actually thought this at first, but after rereading the article, and his reference to people not knowing the feeling of being buzzed on a bike, it seems he is trying to reach people who don't ride, won't ride and likely can't or won't put themselves in the shoes of the cyclist. This same person can associate more as a motorist or a bystander though. Whatever association necessary to get them to slow down and be patient. I liked the message. That was my take. I didn't read any callousness or lack of humanity in the article.


+1 - if it said something like:

Cyclist killed - EVERYONE REMEMBER to be careful and follow the laws and cyclists - consider alternate routes.

I'd have no problem with it. This is inflammatory IMO - the title suggests all cyclists are hobbyists, have no real need to be on the road and should stay away because others are being reckless.


In all fairness, in Salina, Kansas, I suspect most of the cyclists are hobbyists. To take it further, I think the riders he referencing on country farming roads are nearly 100% hobbyists. I have no proof, but growing up in and knowing places like this well, I suspect there are few or no commuters biking from the farms to the city for work everyday. :)

I view this like I do some mountain bike trails not being suitable for MTBers. Some country roads or more for farm access than for transportation. I could see how it could be a problem...those machines are not very nimble and cyclists are not very patient. I could see how it might be an incompatible use during that week.

As for writing the editorial on the heels of the woman's death, wasn't gun control trotted out after the Sandy Hook shootings. This is how issues get brought forward, when there is a trigger for attention.

[pbarry]

The editorial was timely, well meaning, and benign. Kudus to the editor of the Salina Journal for trying to prevent another needless death of a cyclist. Having lived and ridden in major metro areas as well as rural locales, his warning is apt this time of year.

In my new job, I travel 50-100 miles a day in an F250 with a job box loaded to the gills with equipment, throughout rural Boulder County. At least 2-5 times a day I have to break hard for a duo or trio or large group of cyclists who are riding well to the left of the white line. This occurs on blind corners/blind hills and straight-aways, (or when a triathlete decides to pass a slow roadie pack), on roads where the speed limit is 45 or 50 mph. We also have tractors, wind rowers, stackers, semis with round bales, et al, this time of year to contend with.

Drivers around Boulder are used to sharing the road with cyclists and are usually driving defensively, but the cyclists who ride three abreast without caution to the speeding metal behind them are daring the fates. The heads-up in Salina is a good thing.

Be safe, people.

[Aaron O]

I actually thought this at first, but after rereading the article, and his reference to people not knowing the feeling of being buzzed on a bike, it seems he is trying to reach people who don't ride, won't ride and likely can't or won't put themselves in the shoes of the cyclist. This same person can associate more as a motorist or a bystander though. Whatever association necessary to get them to slow down and be patient. I liked the message. That was my take. I didn't read any callousness or lack of humanity in the article.





In all fairness, in Salina, Kansas, I suspect most of the cyclists are hobbyists. To take it further, I think the riders he referencing on country farming roads are nearly 100% hobbyists. I have no proof, but growing up in and knowing places like this well, I suspect there are few or no commuters biking from the farms to the city for work everyday. :)

I view this like I do some mountain bike trails not being suitable for MTBers. Some country roads or more for farm access than for transportation. I could see how it could be a problem...those machines are not very nimble and cyclists are not very patient. I could see how it might be an incompatible use during that week.

As for writing the editorial on the heels of the woman's death, wasn't gun control trotted out after the Sandy Hook shootings. This is how issues get brought forward, when there is a trigger for attention.
I have no experience with areas like that - so defer.

To me, the issue is that cyclists are allowed to use the road...whether it's safe or not. I think suggesting an alternate route is fine, but the other users need to be careful and accommodate legal road use by cyclists. I think this really blames the victim.

I don't think the gun control analogy works for me because guns were the things targeted after their use in a massacre. The equivalent here would be:

Kids. You're not Albert Einstein!

Stay out of schools because they might attract gun men.

Obviously my version is extreme - but I want to highlight that it's the victim that got blamed. I don't know what happened or how he got hit, but my understanding is that the driver was charged with man slaughter....indicating he had a degree of culpability.

[rugbysecondrow]

I have no experience with areas like that - so defer.

To me, the issue is that cyclists are allowed to use the road...whether it's safe or not. I think suggesting an alternate route is fine, but the other users need to be careful and accommodate legal road use by cyclists. I think this really blames the victim.

I don't think the gun control analogy works for me because guns were the things targeted after their use in a massacre. The equivalent here would be:

Kids. You're not Albert Einstein!

Stay out of schools because they might attract gun men.

Obviously my version is extreme - but I want to highlight that it's the victim that got blamed. I don't know what happened or how he got hit, but my understanding is that the driver was charged with man slaughter....indicating he had a degree of culpability.


The victim never got blamed...where was that written or implied? To take it further, the editorial says it is their "annual appeal", meaning they do this every year.

The analogy is not the likeness of the story but the fact that the issue sparked a more public discussion after a horrible event. This is certainly true in both instances.

In any event, it was an editorial made not in malice, or blame or in anger, but in a reasoned attempt to strike harmony maybe actually save some lives.

[Aaron O]

The victim never got blamed...where was that written or implied? To take it further, the editorial says it is their "annual appeal", meaning they do this every year.

The analogy is not the likeness of the story but the fact that the issue sparked a more public discussion after a horrible event. This is certainly true in both instances.

In any event, it was an editorial made not in malice, or blame or in anger, but in a reasoned attempt to strike harmony maybe actually save some lives.

Not quite how I see it - and I might be biased because of where I live. To me, it comes across as: one of you just died, you are silly hobbyists with no real need to be on the road, and there's important stuff going on...and people might speed because it's important...and you hobbyists just stay away.

Bottom line is cyclists are entitled to use the road, and in addressing the dangerous situation, it would be nice to see some advice given to cars and drivers to be careful as well. The headline could have been:

You aren't driving in NASCAR. That seems more appropriate after a death that seems like a driver's fault.

That said...I'm not into asserting my rights ad there are roads I avoid. I suspect this would be one.

[Ti Designs]

Two things to point out:

First, there are exclusions on some roads. Equestrians, pedestrians and cyclists are excluded from highways in my state. The rules are simple and well marked. If the economy of the area depends on the harvest, perhaps a few police details would be in order. Expecting people to comply with non-rules is like me expecting the birds to stay off my roof 'cause I asked one of them to.

Second, the intent of the law when it comes to transportation is safety. Beyond marked speed limits, beyond population density rules, the speed limit on any given road is the speed at which a vehicle can safely travel. If farm equipment can't safely travel down a public road, other accommodations need to be made.

This sort of thing always reminds me of when my town put in the bike path. Walkers use it, runners use it, skaters use it, and cyclists use it. They all think it's their own path and the other users can go piss up a rope. If you want to make up the rules and be the only user, there's this thing called private property. It's kinda expensive, but who ever said being an a$$hole should be cheap?