Campy Questions regarding Cannondale SuperSix Frameset

[SolidSnake03]

Hey everyone!

I just bought a Cannondale SuperSix frameset from 2012 with BB30 and had a few quick questions about putting Campy on it. I figured some of the campy guru's on here would know what was up regarding adapters/converters or whatever else might be needed to make this set up work. Anyhow, I feel like a list is easiest so here goes:

1.What is the cheapest 11speed option with the ultra-shift/multi cog dumping? Is it just all Athena with Chorus shifters?
2. I'm living in a hilly city, Omaha, Nebraska *it's actually kinda hilly I promise* and wondering what others in similar situations felt of the multi shift, was it worth it over just going straight Athena?
3.The frame is BB30, what sort of cups or adapters or BB would I get to get it to work with a Campy Crankset? Or is there a better crankset option I'm not thinking of?
4. The frameset doesn't come with a headset, it's just a frame and fork, what would be a decent headset to use in this frame? I'm unfamiliar with headset to put it lightly...
5. Is 11speed really worthwhile over 10speed Centaur? I guess I'm a bit undecided on this point, I would love to try it but not sure if the ~$200 or so cost is worthwhile, any opinions on this? I know I have to decide for myself but would be good to hear at least what you think

I know this is a bunch of questions but figured if anywhere has good answers and opinions it would be Paceline. Thanks everyone!

[gone]

I can answer two of your specific questions and offer a few opinions on the others. Yes, the cheapest way to get multi-shift is all Athena with Chorus shifters. As far as headsets are concerned it's hard to go wrong with Chris King. Perhaps a bit more expensive but I've got one that's got more than 30K miles on it and it works as well now as it did the day I installed it.

Now to the opinion part. I have both Campy 10 and 11 (and Shimano) and have tens of thousands of miles on each. They both work well and if there's a difference in longevity, reliability or function it's not apparent to me. The obvious difference is the shape of the hoods and the extra cog. Personally, I like a tight cassette without big jumps between cogs and the 11 speed gives another cog to put into the mix.

I have one bike with straight 11 speed Athena and personally don't care for it. It works well enough but I miss the multi-shift and it's something I use all the time. Whether or not it's worth the extra $$ to you is something only you can decide. I'll probably put Chorus shifters on my one bike that doesn't have multi-shift at some point in the near future.

Hope this helps.

[Hank Scorpio]

I have a little older supersix with a chorus build. I built it with the SISL hollowgrams and praxis rings. Rides and shifts like a champ. ALTHOUGH I now hate bb30. Mine is creaky as all get out anytime I stand and mash.

[FlashUNC]

11 speed, imo, is worth it. The gear dump feature is great, and isn't all that more expensive than the 10 spd stuff.

Since making the switch myself, I've found the 12-27 cassette keeps me just as happy as the 13-26 10-spd cassette I was using.

You can use a Cannondale crank if you want to keep it BB30 -- the group won't notice the difference -- and I'm using Chorus shifters with Athena bits on my Della Santa, and it works just fine.

[cfox]

It "didn't come with a headset"?? You know those frames have integrated headsets, right (no external headset cups)? Are you saying there are no bearings pressed into the top and bottom of the headtube? I'd be very surprised if someone yanked the bearings off a 2012 before they sold it to you.

[Lovetoclimb]

I have ridden the mess out of my Supersix with Campy, so hopefully this helps:

1) Athena 11 with Chorus 11 shifters is cheapest, unless you find some pre 2010 Athena when that level group still had the internals of Chorus. I have mostly Record 11 with the Cannondale Hollowgram crankset and FSA Campy 11s rings.
2) If you have never had the multi shift (gear dump) feature, you are missing out, but also may not really know you are missing out, so going straight Athena is not a bad idea.
3) Campy makes a BB30 adapter, FSA does as well. Having used these on a BB30 frame (not the CDale) with a Campy 11 crankset, I can confidently say the only thing more annoying than a BB30 crankset system, is the adapters. Highly recommend getting a BB30 crankset, the Hollowgram is pretty nice. And the FSA rings are low cost nor do they look out of place.
4) Any Cannondale dealer should be able to spec the correct headset for this frame. It is integrated, but uses a propietary Cannondale bearing on one side, and a generic FSA bearing on the other.
5) 11 speed is worthwhile, but becomes really noticeable at the Chorus level and above. For the money, Chorus is the best bargain, especially once you get it dialed.

[oliver1850]

Unless you can stumble onto an early (2010) pair of Athena 11 Ultrashift levers, Chorus is what you need for more than 1 upshift.

Campagnolo makes BB30 cups to use with both UT and PT cranks.

I have extra new Campagnolo Power Torque to BB30 cups if you go with a Campagnolo PT crank. I haven't used any yet, though I have a CAAD9 sitting here that's going to get them when I get around to building it.

I've ridden Chorus 11 but don't own any 11 equipped bikes. I have Centaur 10 PS levers on one bike. For my use, there's no advantage to 11, and I'm fine with the one gear at a time upshift. You can downshift 3 cogs with PS, that's more important to me than multiple upshifts. I'll be more interested in 11 when there's an entry level cassette. Veloce 10s are costly enough.

[oliver1850]

4) Any Cannondale dealer should be able to spec the correct headset for this frame. It is integrated, but uses a propietary Cannondale bearing on one side, and a generic FSA bearing on the other.



I've never looked closely at a SuperSix. I would have thought the head tube was the same as CAAD5 - CAAD9. Is there something different about it that prevents the use of off the shelf FSA or Cane Creek headsets such as the IS2-I/IS3-I/IS8-I, which I've used in various CAADs?

[SolidSnake03]

11 speed, imo, is worth it. The gear dump feature is great, and isn't all that more expensive than the 10 spd stuff.

Since making the switch myself, I've found the 12-27 cassette keeps me just as happy as the 13-26 10-spd cassette I was using.

You can use a Cannondale crank if you want to keep it BB30 -- the group won't notice the difference -- and I'm using Chorus shifters with Athena bits on my Della Santa, and it works just fine.

Thanks for the advice so far everyone! I have look at a full Chorus group vs. Athena with Chorus shifters and the price difference is pretty big. Granted this is with a Campy crankset but still. Also, for those of you using BB30 Cranksets is there anything with them and 11Speed? I feel like that shouldn't matter at all but I wasn't sure since Campy lists it's Cranksets as either 10speed or 11speed.

Is there a difference I should be aware of? I'm actually thinking of picking up a Cannondale Crankset actually for the BB30 now that I have heard a bit more about it. I don't need a 100% complete groupset, I'm looking for the best combo available so this might be worth pursuing.

Regarding Multishift, I think I might like to at least try it, for not a huge price difference I could just get Chorus shifters.

[bigman]

I have an 2012 supersix - running ultegra 6700 with a BB30 adapter by Wheels Manufacturing - runs silent. They also make a campy adapter.

[scottaharper]

After having nothing but problems with noise running SRAM BB30 cranks in my Cannondale frame, and reading too many horror stories about noisy Campy crank adapters, I went with the Praxis bottom bracket for Shimano cranks. The installation seems pretty idiot-proof and the reviews that I saw were universally good. I have not had any problems yet, but I do not have enough miles to give you a definitive answer.

[beeatnik]

Get Hollowgrams w/ Praxis or Stronglight CT2 11s chainrings. If you don't want to invest in Hollowgrams get a Red BB30 crankset with the praxis/stronglight rings. Do not use adapters. Ever.

[SolidSnake03]

Unfortunately aside from 1 very well used one it looks like ebay is out of Hollowgram cranks at a decent price :(

I saw you mentioned SRAM RED BB30 with Praxis Chainrings, so something like this would work fine? Obviously I would need to pick up the chain rings for it....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281115463728?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[zap]

edit

Also, for those of you using BB30 Cranksets is there anything with them and 11Speed? I feel like that shouldn't matter at all but I wasn't sure since Campy lists it's Cranksets as either 10speed or 11speed.

Is there a difference I should be aware of? I'm actually thinking of picking up a Cannondale Crankset actually for the BB30 now that I have heard a bit more about it. I don't need a 100% complete groupset, I'm looking for the best combo available so this might be worth pursuing.



http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=130435

Mighty fine crankset. Light stiff and simple to install. Can't comment on older SISL sets but those can be upgraded to spidey rings as well.

[SolidSnake03]

Its a beauty but the price :eek: i have maybe $200-250 tops for the crankset+rings

[beeatnik]

Unfortunately aside from 1 very well used one it looks like ebay is out of Hollowgram cranks at a decent price :(

I saw you mentioned SRAM RED BB30 with Praxis Chainrings, so something like this would work fine? Obviously I would need to pick up the chain rings for it....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281115463728?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I was running Record 11 with Hollowgrams/Stronglight on my EVO. Flawless shifting.

On my CAAD10 "budget" race build, I've got Force BB30 cranks with Praxis 10/11s chainrings. Flawless shifting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8529/8630266054_f35e7548aa.jpg

[cleavel]

Hey everyone!

I just bought a Cannondale SuperSix frameset from 2012 with BB30 and had a few quick questions about putting Campy on it. I figured some of the campy guru's on here would know what was up regarding adapters/converters or whatever else might be needed to make this set up work. Anyhow, I feel like a list is easiest so here goes:

1.What is the cheapest 11speed option with the ultra-shift/multi cog dumping? Is it just all Athena with Chorus shifters?
2. I'm living in a hilly city, Omaha, Nebraska *it's actually kinda hilly I promise* and wondering what others in similar situations felt of the multi shift, was it worth it over just going straight Athena?
3.The frame is BB30, what sort of cups or adapters or BB would I get to get it to work with a Campy Crankset? Or is there a better crankset option I'm not thinking of?
4. The frameset doesn't come with a headset, it's just a frame and fork, what would be a decent headset to use in this frame? I'm unfamiliar with headset to put it lightly...
5. Is 11speed really worthwhile over 10speed Centaur? I guess I'm a bit undecided on this point, I would love to try it but not sure if the ~$200 or so cost is worthwhile, any opinions on this? I know I have to decide for myself but would be good to hear at least what you think

I know this is a bunch of questions but figured if anywhere has good answers and opinions it would be Paceline. Thanks everyone!

1. Don't know
2. Multi-shift is essential IMHO if you race. Otherwise, YMMV.
3. I raced on a 2010 SuperSix Hi-Mod for 2 years. I used the FSA BB30 -> English adapter (http://www.fullspeedahead.com/products/449/BB30-Threaded-Adapter-68mm) (sleeve) which allows you to use the standard Campy English threaded BB cups. Never had any creaks or other issues with the setup. A teammate who is much more powerful than I has the bike now and has a standard SRAM Force crank in it and he hasn't had any problems either.
4. AFAIK, you have to use factory Cannondale headset (http://www.cannondaleexperts.com/Cannondale-SuperSix-Complete-Headset--KP044_p_611.html).
5. Haven't made the jump to 11-speed yet. Since I started racing when there were only 5 cogs in back, 10 has been fine for me.

[Ralph]

Just wondering how all these big name riders win all these races on Shimano and SRAM equipment without the dump feature?

I've got one 10 speed bike with Campy Centaur PT shifters, and another 10 speed Campy bike with Centaur US shifters with the "dump" feature. I can see why some, depending on terrain you ride and if you have a compact crank, etc, might value the "dump" feature. I don't ride a compact, or ride in real hilly terrain, so I never use the feature. And I think the PT shifters shift a bit crisper than the US shifters. One of the bikes has a Record Triple, and on that bike I do prefer the FD action better with the US shifters.

[tuscanyswe]

I still think record 10 is the best group. My SR 11 (2010) feels flimsy in comparison. Its not as distinct which for me is a big let down.

[ColnagoFan]

I've never looked closely at a SuperSix. I would have thought the head tube was the same as CAAD5 - CAAD9. Is there something different about it that prevents the use of off the shelf FSA or Cane Creek headsets such as the IS2-I/IS3-I/IS8-I, which I've used in various CAADs?

It's a tapered 1.5" - 1.125" headset, but IIRC, the fork crown is slightly larger (actually 1.5" around) so you need the Cannondale headset. Best bet is to get one from a local dealer, or there used to be this online store that sold Cannondale headset/BB stuff, I forget the name, but google might know it?

[Climb01742]

I was running Record 11 with Hollowgrams/Stronglight on my EVO. Flawless shifting.

On my CAAD10 "budget" race build, I've got Force BB30 cranks with Praxis 10/11s chainrings. Flawless shifting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8529/8630266054_f35e7548aa.jpg

Sorry for the thread drift...but may I ask how you liked your Evo? Thx.

[SolidSnake03]

I just bid on this exact crank on ebay, do you think the SRAM rings will be fine with Campy 11 or will it be necessary to invest in some Praxis rings to help with the shifting? I don't see why there would be an issue with the SRAM one's but I might be overlooking something simple, I'm new to Campy but can't wait to hop over to that side of the fence :banana:

I was running Record 11 with Hollowgrams/Stronglight on my EVO. Flawless shifting.

On my CAAD10 "budget" race build, I've got Force BB30 cranks with Praxis 10/11s chainrings. Flawless shifting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8529/8630266054_f35e7548aa.jpg

[beeatnik]

Snake, I rode a Record 10s compact with a Record 11s drivetrain and had a few dropped chains and 2 instances of chain suck when I first upgraded. Not sure if that would be an issue with the SRAM cranks. Cranks should be agnostic but I would still invest in the Praxis rings or the Stronglights. PM me and I'll send you a few links to sites where you can pick up the Stronglights for under $75.

Climb, I loved the EVO. Best handling bike on the planet, IMO. Also, super comfortable. For me, a nicer road feel than my Moots Compact SL. Unfortunately, the universe didn't want me to enjoy it for more than a few months.

[Lovetoclimb]

It's a tapered 1.5" - 1.125" headset, but IIRC, the fork crown is slightly larger (actually 1.5" around) so you need the Cannondale headset. Best bet is to get one from a local dealer, or there used to be this online store that sold Cannondale headset/BB stuff, I forget the name, but google might know it?

This is the place I got the propietary bearing for my Supersix headset. Very expensive, so take good care of yours once you get it sorted!

[Lovetoclimb]

I just bid on this exact crank on ebay, do you think the SRAM rings will be fine with Campy 11 or will it be necessary to invest in some Praxis rings to help with the shifting? I don't see why there would be an issue with the SRAM one's but I might be overlooking something simple, I'm new to Campy but can't wait to hop over to that side of the fence :banana:

The SRAM rings are meant for SRAM/Shimano 10 speed chains. They will "work" but not ideal for Campy 10s or 11s. If you plan on going 11s drivetrain, invest in some 11s chainrings, Praxxis/FSA/etc. If you plan on running Campy 10s you may be okay, but odds are the front shifting and noise will be much better if you find Campy 10s rings. The BCD pattern will be your big hang-up, it is 130 on that crank, 135 on most Campy cranks.

[beeatnik]

It's a tapered 1.5" - 1.125" headset, but IIRC, the fork crown is slightly larger (actually 1.5" around) so you need the Cannondale headset. Best bet is to get one from a local dealer, or there used to be this online store that sold Cannondale headset/BB stuff, I forget the name, but google might know it?

http://www.cannondaleexperts.com/

[ColnagoFan]

http://www.cannondaleexperts.com/

YES! Thank you, that's it!

Any 1.5" tapered carbon fork will work with the frame, but you'd have to swap the headset out to a "standard" 1.5" to make it work. #confusing

[oldpotatoe]

1. Don't know
2. Multi-shift is essential IMHO if you race. Otherwise, YMMV.
3. I raced on a 2010 SuperSix Hi-Mod for 2 years. I used the FSA BB30 -> English adapter (http://www.fullspeedahead.com/products/449/BB30-Threaded-Adapter-68mm) (sleeve) which allows you to use the standard Campy English threaded BB cups. Never had any creaks or other issues with the setup. A teammate who is much more powerful than I has the bike now and has a standard SRAM Force crank in it and he hasn't had any problems either.
4. AFAIK, you have to use factory Cannondale headset (http://www.cannondaleexperts.com/Cannondale-SuperSix-Complete-Headset--KP044_p_611.html).
5. Haven't made the jump to 11-speed yet. Since I started racing when there were only 5 cogs in back, 10 has been fine for me.

Really, how do those shimano/sram guys do it? Race with such a disadvantage?

[oldpotatoe]

The SRAM rings are meant for SRAM/Shimano 10 speed chains. They will "work" but not ideal for Campy 10s or 11s. If you plan on going 11s drivetrain, invest in some 11s chainrings, Praxxis/FSA/etc. If you plan on running Campy 10s you may be okay, but odds are the front shifting and noise will be much better if you find Campy 10s rings. The BCD pattern will be your big hang-up, it is 130 on that crank, 135 on most Campy cranks.

All 10s chains are identical in terms of dimension. There are no chainrings that are 'shimano/sram' but not Campagnolo 10s, or vice versa.

If you have a Campagnolo 11s system, you can use any crank, any chainring. Using a 10s system, use any 11s crank, it doesn't matter. No reason to get 11s rings with a 11s Campagnolo system.

What changed was the rings are a little closer together on 11s cranks but the ring widths, tooth profiles, etc., are the same as 10s.

[SolidSnake03]

Thanks a bunch potato, this is what i originally thought in that i didnt gwt or understand how/why "11s chain rings" would be different.

Picked up a brand new SRAM Force crankset in the length and size i wanted for $80, i figured by this logic than the SRAM rings should be fine. Since i am trying to keep this project close to a budget that extra money saved on rings can really help me get slightly better wheels :)

All 10s chains are identical in terms of dimension. There are no chainrings that are 'shimano/sram' but not Campagnolo 10s, or vice versa.

If you have a Campagnolo 11s system, you can use any crank, any chainring. Using a 10s system, use any 11s crank, it doesn't matter. No reason to get 11s rings with a 11s Campagnolo system.

What changed was the rings are a little closer together on 11s cranks but the ring widths, tooth profiles, etc., are the same as 10s.

[lhuerta]

You will here lots of whining about creaks with pressfit adapter cups, most of which can be explained by inproperly installed cups.

If you are going to use the Campagnolo BB30 pressfit cups then Loctite 609 or 641 is a must (as recommended by Cannondale, Specialized and others), otherwise you will develop the dreaded drift and creak associated with "press fit" cups.
Lou

PS: for reference, see:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92804

[Lovetoclimb]

All 10s chains are identical in terms of dimension. There are no chainrings that are 'shimano/sram' but not Campagnolo 10s, or vice versa.

If you have a Campagnolo 11s system, you can use any crank, any chainring. Using a 10s system, use any 11s crank, it doesn't matter. No reason to get 11s rings with a 11s Campagnolo system.

What changed was the rings are a little closer together on 11s cranks but the ring widths, tooth profiles, etc., are the same as 10s.

I just got taken to school!

Thanks for the education, been living a lie all these years.

[beeatnik]

What Old P says is true in theory and more often in practice but he doesn't address chain suck. The only drivetrain I've ever experienced chain suck on was Campy 11s mated to 10s FD/Crankset. No chainsuck ever with Hollowgrams and 11s Stronglights and Force with Praxis 11s rings. YMMV

[SpokeValley]

With the exception of the BB30 questions with which I have no experience, ditto on everything else.

I have Chorus 11 and I ride lots of hills. The multi-shifting is just the best. I especially like to upshift 3 (with each button push) over the top...ready for the downhill reward. Yowsa.

I have the 12-29 cassette (52-36 up front) and I have gears-a-plenty with really sweet single shift increments in the middle range.

Also, very precise overall shifting and with a light feel. Spend the $$.

[beeatnik]

Here's the deal. No one here knows if Ultra Shift helps pros cos no one here rides with UCI pros. But, I do know that it helps fast dudes who can climb 6% grades at 18mph with other fast normal dudes cos when you apex a hill you can be in your biggest gear in 2 clicks for the descent (and at the start of the climb you can be in your easy gears quick). In the land of mere mortals that feature is BIG. Well, for me, it's the only way I beat the 125# kid who makes me suffer at his wheel for 15 minutes. Once we hit the top of the climb, being able to accelerate that quickly, he never knows what hit him.

Y
M
M
V

[cleavel]

Thanks, beeatnik. :)

[beeatnik]

Love your bikes Cleave. That Pista Concept and Evo...:eek:

[oldpotatoe]

What Old P says is true in theory and more often in practice but he doesn't address chain suck. The only drivetrain I've ever experienced chain suck on was Campy 11s mated to 10s FD/Crankset. No chainsuck ever with Hollowgrams and 11s Stronglights and Force with Praxis 11s rings. YMMV

I haven't since I haven't seen this happen. The FD doesn't care..and I suspect that if the rings were worn a bit, became 'hooked', that may explain the chainsuck. BUT I maintain it wasn't because one was 10s and not 11s.

[SolidSnake03]

Thanks again for all the help everyone with this stuff. I should be getting the SRAM crankset this coming week, I don't plan to change out the rings unless something prompts me to go with Praxis aside from that I think they look cool.

Now on to my next issue, hope I can get a bit of guidance here to. I have priced out all the parts I need now that crankset isn't in the picture and it looks like about a $150 difference between full Chorus vs. Chorus shifters and rest Athena.
Full Chorus $760
Chorus shifters rest Athena $610
What I'm torn on now is whether or not the full Chorus is worth it. Since I'm already going with the Chorus shifters is there really a benefit *weight non-withstanding* to going full Chorus? I do think it would be neat to have a full groupset minus crank but not $150 neat so to speak...