regarding that ti thread - bad ti stories?

[eddief]

So mostly I get the negative stories I have heard about ti bikes that have been too flexy in the bottom bracket. Do you have a story about somehow being disappointed by a badly done ti frameset? I honestly am not looking for builder names or any dirt on an individual brand, but real life experiences with ti that did not perform the way you wanted or hoped after plunking down the bucks.

[dave thompson]

I had a Colnago BiTitan that was a real noodle. (even I could flex the BB) Then I've had numerous Ti Serottas that weren't.

[donevwil]

Bought custom frame is '96, it originally came with a Kestrel fork which I believe was 45mm rake. Handling basically sucked relative to my steel Landshark until a local mechanic recommended a 40mm rake Alpha Q. Transformed the bike. Found a crack 1/2 way around the seat tube at the BB shell on the first day of a 7 day tour in '98. Rode the tour as is and sent the frame back to the builder for repair. He welded up the crack and added gussets to the seat tube-BB junction (really?). Following year crack returned, sent frame back and builder replaced seat tube. No issues since.

Welding Ti takes special skill, if not done correctly cracks may form, especially in high stress areas. This was somewhat common in the early-mid 90's, at least more common than now. Had friends on Litespeed (5), Merlin (4), Dean (1), Ti Cycles (1), Ibis (3) & Serotta (2). Those that cracked: Litespeed (4, not kidding), Merlin (2), Dean (1), Ti Cycles (1) & Serotta (1). Those that cracked a second time after initial repair were: Litespeed (2), Merln (1) & Ti Cycles (1). Fortunately, in these examples I believe all were factory repaired and ultimately led to long happy lives.

I still love Ti and have a new one on the way, made by likely the best builder out there. Granted it appears the problems I'd witnessed in the 90's are a thing of the past. I'd have no issue with any of the more respected brands available today.

[cachagua]

I'm sorry, I don't have a bad story to tell. I had exactly the same issue with a Kestrel fork in a very early Merlin Extralight -- the handling was downright dangerous. I ended up selling it. Didn't understand at the time how a different fork could have transformed the bike. But for what it's worth, it was the least flexy frame, of any material, that I've ever ridden.

[cfox]

Ti is my favorite material. The only minor downside is that it can be clicky/creaky/pingy if not set up perfectly. It is not forgiving to imperfect BB faces or threads or improperly torqued derailleur clamps and seatpost clamps. Fortunately, if you build it up properly, you will be fine.

[cash05458]

I agree with the comment about ti and bad welds...I had a new lemond ti/carbon frame...thing broke right around the downtube cable stops on the ti downtube...cracked like an eggshell right around weld areas...wont even go into how trek behaved...

[zap]

...cracked like an eggshell right around weld areas....

I have never seen a material crack so fast in my life..........ti is like effing paper.......

[maunahaole]

Yup. This is worth 600 bucks. Totally safe to ride.

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/bik/3827424002.html

[Ryun]

Nothing from the newer builders but back in the day:

--Broke a colnago Bititan. To be fair, it was still sort of rideable as a mono titan

-One of those Bianchi ti bikes that ballan or gewiss rode with the shaped giant downtube that cracked near the downtube

--I had an early litespeed vortex that probably should ahve ridden ok but it came with the first gen look hsc all carbon fork in 1" and it was scary

--Those terrible cast ti stems specialized that all seemd to crack and still pop up here and there super cheap.

Other wise, the builder has more to do with it than the material imo.

Ryun

[zap]

Yup. This is worth 600 bucks. Totally safe to ride.

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/bik/3827424002.html

Thats where my frame cracked.

I checked out Paragon's site some months ago and saw that they still sell those ti bullet caps................go figure.

[cash05458]

Thats where my frame cracked.

I checked out Paragon's site some months ago and saw that they still sell those ti bullet caps................go figure.

yeah, I wish them luck with that...I had my frame repaired by a guy who works on airplanes...a buddy who does welds on ti to keep planes safe ect...he had all the right equipment and knows ti very very well due to crazy faa regs ect...all the aragon you could want...and the perfect rods...not the best of course, but he knows properties and how to do it ...anyhow...he repaired it...lasted two weeks before snapping again...my personal feeling is once ti goes it is gone...or very very touchy to repair anyhow...and it is more delicate than folks say...funny thing with trek is they didnt even deny it had to be a bad weld...but wouldnt do anything...they did offer and even told me they were being gracious, to put me in their crash replacement program...wanted to sell me a two year old ****ty madone carbon for 1800 bucks...big of them...I wrote them back and said no thanks and reminded them I had had no crash...was just riding up a hill ect...good folks and great backup...done with Ti and sticking with Steel...

[donevwil]

... The builder has more to do with it than the material imo.ryun

+1

[Columbus SLX]

--Broke a colnago Bititan. To be fair, it was still sort of rideable as a mono titan


:beer:

[texbike]

+1

I've had a few Ti bikes over the years and my only complaints are that a couple of them just didn't ride well.

Litespeed Classic - Dull and uninspiring ride. However it was sold to a friend that added a different set of wheels that made a HUGE difference in how the bike felt.

Serotta Legend - Asspounder 6000. For everything that you hear about the brilliance of Legends, I was surprised by how bad this one was. It had an incredibly stiff rear end that transmitted impacts like meteors slamming into Uranus. :eek: It was a stock bike, so the tubing hadn't been tuned to my weight, etc. but still... I tried several different wheelsets (some helped more than others) and saddles to no avail. On top of it, the power transfer was horrid. It was like accelerating through oatmeal. The good? It looked gorgeous, handled very well, and was great on descents.

Moots Vamoots - This one felt terribly flexy (I was accustomed to MX Leaders and C series Colnagos) and inefficient when putting the hammer down. However, it's actually become my primary bike. I found a set of wheels that is a perfect compliment to the bike and it now rides great.

The others have been fairly nice (Merlin Agilis, Colnago MonoTitan, Litespeed MTB).

Texbike

[br995]

I had a Dean El Diente CTi crack along the back side of the ST/BB weld between the chainstays. The crack continued around one side of the ST/BB weld and then spread up the underside of the downtube about 1.5 inches before I noticed it.

I noticed it the day after a 156 mile ride to the top of a mountain and back. That explained why the bike ghost shifted every time I stood to pedal.

I had bought it used though, and it was maybe 5 years old at that point (though appeared in perfect condition). I have no reason to believe the problem was specific to Ti, but there you have it.


Dean did offer to repair it for $500, but considering the customer service horror stories I've read, and the deal I was offered on a full custom frame elsewhere, I decided to pass.

[tuscanyswe]

I've had a few Ti bikes over the years and my only complaints are that a couple of them just didn't ride well.

Litespeed Classic - Dull and uninspiring ride. However it was sold to a friend that added a different set of wheels that made a HUGE difference in how the bike felt.

Serotta Legend - Asspounder 6000. For everything that you hear about the brilliance of Legends, I was surprised by how bad this one was. It had an incredibly stiff rear end that transmitted impacts like meteors slamming into Uranus. :eek: It was a stock bike, so the tubing hadn't been tuned to my weight, etc. but still... I tried several different wheelsets (some helped more than others) and saddles to no avail. On top of it, the power transfer was horrid. It was like accelerating through oatmeal. The good? It looked gorgeous, handled very well, and was great on descents.

Moots Vamoots - This one felt terribly flexy (I was accustomed to MX Leaders and C series Colnagos) and inefficient when putting the hammer down. However, it's actually become my primary bike. I found a set of wheels that is a perfect compliment to the bike and it now rides great.

The others have been fairly nice (Merlin Agilis, Colnago MonoTitan, Litespeed MTB).

Texbike

How dare you slander Litespeed, Serotta and Moots in the same post?! .)
interestingly ive had the above makes aswell but different models and i have a completely different experience, really says it all. Design triumphs materials and flavors and taste vary alot.

Ive had a ti bike with a very soft headtube junction. Wasent a great ride.

[djg]

No horror stories here, sorry. Colnago CT-1 (pre-B-stay) -- really good bike, and main ride for maybe 6 years. Serotta HSG Ti - continues to be a really good bike, and rock solid. Serotta GP Suisse Ti -- good solid cross bike until it was stolen, and I imagine it's serving some bastard well still. Spectrum Ti Super -- effin' great (big ol' DT and c-stays specc'd by the builder for get up and go under my massive tuches).

One of the bikes that came and went was a Ti bike -- an old Clark Kent job that I'd picked up used and put to duty mostly as a commuter, bike to take on family trips, etc. I'd heard this and that, and eventually I moved on, but really . . . the thing is, mine never broke, looked fine, and rode fine -- not my favorite, for sure, but not a bad bike.

[oldpotatoe]

How dare you slander Litespeed, Serotta and Moots in the same post?! .)
interestingly ive had the above makes aswell but different models and i have a completely different experience, really says it all. Design triumphs materials and flavors and taste vary alot.

Ive had a ti bike with a very soft headtube junction. Wasent a great ride.

No kidding..why posts about 'how does such and such ride' anything mean al,most nuthin'

Wanna know how _____-bike frame rides? Go ride one..

BTW-I ride a Moots Vamoots and Merckx MXLeader...and they both ride great...different but both great Kinda like strawberry jam and raspberry jam..like 'em both.

[elreb]

I was a little disappointed in my Merlin's geometry and stiffness. The geometry I am referring to is more aesthetics but the chain-stay is longer then I prefer and I am sure contributes to my disliking since I prefer a race-y geometry.

I have also owned a 1997 Litespeed Vortex that didn't feel as flexy while still maintaining comfort, although it was a little big for me.

Wheels definitely make a huge difference in the ride also though. In the image below the rear is a a23 and the front is obviously a zipp 101. The front and rear zipp 101's definitely making the bike feel more stiff and zippy (no pun intended), then the both a23's.

http://i.imgur.com/6RfdcQhl.jpg