Any advice for my first 300k?

[moose8]

I'm attempting my first 300k this Saturday - previous record for distance for me is 135 miles, and this will be 189, plus way hillier. I've been doing the 200k brevets for a few years now with the last one being around three weeks ago I think. Anyway, I plan on applying the same tactics I've used on the 200k, but the last one had around 9000 feet of climbing and this one has around 12000 feet by my math, which will be the most I've climbed I think.

Is there anything different I should do for a 300k than a 200k other than have lights? I've already put my sister on alert that she may need to drive to pick me up if I end up having to DNF.

[roydyates]

Ride the first 100k really easy. Don't break a sweat. Then ride your usual 200k.

[echelon_john]

don't take the bait in the first 50 miles. get rolling at your own pace, and eat and drink all the time.

inevitably, no matter how low-key the brevet, a 'lead group' forms. if you're concerned about the distance, don't get bummed out when you let them ride up the road. focus on your average speed and on keeping your efforts--esp. on hills, if that's your concern--under control. better to crawl up a few hills than to blow with 100+ miles to go.

if you treat the first 50 miles as a warm up and go into the next phase well fed & watered, you'll be fine assuming you've been doing 200k without major issues.

[echelon_john]

roy gets it!

[witcombusa]

Eddy said it best....


"Ride Lots"


Have you?

[93legendti]

When I did my first 300k, I had some bad stomach upset. I wish I had had some tums- I would have been a lot more comfortable the last 2 hours.

[joosttx]

The best advice I can give is when you try and keep an even keel regardless of what your emotions are telling you. You will go through more highs and lows on a 300k than a 200k it's important to not give up when your mind says to and not to go hard when your mind says you can.

The other advice is to eat and drink along the way. Don't eat a big meal just many small ones. Again caloric intake is more important in a 300K than a 200k.

I always like 300k's more than 200k's and my first brevet was a 300k.

[moose8]

Thanks for the suggestions - I like the idea of taking it easy the first couple of segments so I have some gas left in the tank. I hadn't thought of that approach but it sounds like a winner. It's also going to be in the 90s likely, so I will plan on drinking plenty, and snacking every hour, which is what I've done on my 200k's and that has worked well.

[KidWok]

I did STP in one day...a bit more than 300k.

Definitely take it easy early on. For long distance rides, I wear a timex watch set to beep at regular intervals to remind me to eat and drink. Eat smaller quantities more often. My favorite energy food is Fig Newmans...one every 10-15 minutes with some water to wash it down.

If you start cracking late in the ride, don't eat too much hard to digest stuff. The only time I ever recommend high fructose corn syrup laden drinks is in the last half of a double century.

Tai

[rinconryder]

I haven't done 300k but I have raced a few ironman races around 10 hours or so. Eat a solid breakfast three hours out. Pancakes or whatever your fancy. On the bike take three big gulps of water every fifteen minutes and eat a guy or half a bar (both 100 calories) every 30. Take varying kinds of food - gu, chomps, bars but eat the solids first And then work your way to less solid as it will be more difficult to digest as the day goes on. Wear arm coolers if you can get some in time - will protect your arms from sun. Pour water on yourself regularly and pay attention to keeping you core cool. Salt tablets would be wise as well - just make sure to balance out with water.

That's all I got for now.

[aoe]

I agree with others on taking the first 50 miles or so easy. Make a plan ahead of time on pace for each segment. The adrenaline is going so its easy to veer from your plan early on - watch your pace and keep it in check.

For me, the first 60 was the hardest mentally and once you hit the halfway point it was all good from there as you see light at the end of the tunnel after you're ticking off each mile thereafter.

One trick for me, that may sound odd to some, was to have a few go-to "places" and/or good memories in my head that I go to to "daydream". It keeps the mind occupied for segments where you're riding a consistent, grueling cadence and just need to get out of body and not focused on the discomfort. For hill climbs and the final 40-mi stretch I go to a replay of memories where I raced or competed in the past and it gives me the shot of adrenaline I need to try and haul ass (relatively).

[palincss]

Is there anything different I should do for a 300k than a 200k other than have lights? I've already put my sister on alert that she may need to drive to pick me up if I end up having to DNF.

Sounds like you did your 200K brevets without lights. If so, you'd really better get that setup dialed in NOW, before you go on that 300K, and practice night navigation. Unless you are using a GPS, that means you are going to have to be able to read the cue sheet and your computer, and that in turn means you are going to need a light source to illuminate them -- one bright enough so you can read them but not so bright as to dazzle you and wipe out your night vision.

And don't fall into the trap I did first time out, thinking "I've been a year round commuter for almost 30 years, if there's one thing I've got down pat it's riding in the dark." I forgot that I'd been doing the same route for almost 30 years, knew every turn. It was a real epiphany, there in the pitch dark knowing I was now farther into it than I'd ever ridden in my life, couldn't tell what my mileage was, not knowing what the next turn was, not knowing what that road going off to the right was because I couldn't read the street sign, and make a wrong turn and I'll have to backtrack to the place where I went wrong and still be no closer to finishing. A genuine "dark night of the soul" moment.

Spare yourself all that. Practice tonight.

[godfrey1112000]

A Good Breakfast and then a bathroom check prior to the start, hate pooping on the road,

Your 200k will be a benchmark for the 300k, especially with the additional climbing, sounds rather beasty, don't worry about your speed compared to your best 200k, but focus on finishing before dark, most 300k's start early so you will have all day

Eat like you normally do on any extended ride, usually the 300k's I have done have turn around check points at a C-Store, a turkey sandwich and Coke or Chocolate Milk is a nice option unless you like carrying all your food,

the last 100k is where a mind game can start especially if the sun starts to set and you still have 30+ miles to go, have your lighting organized but I have done the 300k and finished by dark, my wife is not a fan of night riding, she does not own a bike

On thing that I did not see in the comments which is usually a given is Tires and Tubes, Start with good rubber, I usually run Gatorskins on these rides or new rubber, you only need to flat once or many times on these rides to learn a lesson, on one 300k I had 3 flats due to poorly treated roads, in Missouri, the group of 20 probably had 60 flats that day, there was not a tube to be found at the end I dnf'ed with 25 miles to go and a trashed tire

If you usually carry one tube and two co2's maybe a extra tube and inflation devices would help,

Bring extra money, just in case, and if you are out in the middle of no where turn off the cell to save the battery, turn it on at the check points

also if you are at the last Check point or C-store, don't be afraid to fuel up with a Coke, fountain with ice, it will refresh you and give you that boost you need


Good Luck, you will do great

[moose8]

These responses are why this forum is great. I worked on my lighting last night, but still have some tweaks to do. I have a dynohub that I finally got built into a wheel but am running into a little trouble mounting the light so I am going to go to the bike shop tonight to see if they can help me figure it out.

I'm planning on using the Garmin 800 I just bought as a result of the post about the price drop. I'll have the cue sheet as a backup, but on the 200 I borrowed a friend's 800 and was amazed at how well it worked by beeping if I got off course. And I will be using brand new tires - Corsa Open CX in 25c - maybe a little lightweight for this kind of ride, but they ride so well I figured I would give it a go. I was surprised how much lighter they felt compared to the Schwalbe Racers in 35c that I had on yesterday. I'm going to pack an extra tire just in case, as on a 100k a month ago something slashed through the sidewall of a different, heavier tire. I'll bring three tubes just in case, as well as a patch kit. I hate having to ask for help on my bike, so I often go pretty loaded. I'm feeling kind of intimidated by it, but I figure there is no harm in trying and will call my sister to get me if need be, though I really hope not to have to do that.

[echelon_john]

Important to remember--it's still just a bike ride. Don't get too anxious; you're just doing what you enjoy doing, for a longer period of time than you usually get to do it.

[cp43]

The only advice I have that hasn't already been mentioned is that the guy on the front of a group doesn't necessarily know where he's going. Always keep track of where you are on your cue sheet.

Where are you located? I'll be riding the Boston 300K on Saturday. If that's the ride you're doing, I'll keep an eye out for you.

Chris

[moose8]

The only advice I have that hasn't already been mentioned is that the guy on the front of a group doesn't necessarily know where he's going. Always keep track of where you are on your cue sheet.

Where are you located? I'll be riding the Boston 300K on Saturday. If that's the ride you're doing, I'll keep an eye out for you.

Chris

The Boston one is the one I will be doing. I'll be the guy on a Rocky Mountain Sherpa (it's a blue touring bike) way, way behind everyone else, but hopefully still within the time limit.

[goonster]

Eat a solid breakfast three hours out.

The 300 km's in my area start at 4 am.

I like to bring a breakfast sandwich that I can eat on the bike after the first hour, or so, when the nerves calm down and I get hungry.

Also, having started too many long rides with sleep deprivation going in (up late getting ready, etc.), I find it is a big boost to the success and enjoyment of the event to take a half day off on Friday, get everything ready and sleep EARLY.

[fiamme red]

Also, having started too many long rides with sleep deprivation going in (up late getting ready, etc.), I find it is a big boost to the success and enjoyment of the event to take a half day off on Friday, get everything ready and sleep EARLY.Very good advice. I started the 300k this year sleep-deprived (slept only 1.5 hours the night before) and felt myself dragging badly later in the day.

Eat on the bike, whenever possible. Try to keep your stops short, especially during the first 200 km.

[cp43]

The Boston one is the one I will be doing. I'll be the guy on a Rocky Mountain Sherpa (it's a blue touring bike) way, way behind everyone else, but hopefully still within the time limit.

I'll look for you at the start. I'll be the tall guy in a Minuteman Road Club kit, riding with the short guy in a Minuteman kit.

I'll most likely be on a black cross bike with red bar tape.

Chris

[bambam]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=109146&highlight=300k

Bonne Route.

Since its cooler in the mornings might actually start out a little faster and slow down when it heats up. But better yet find someone riding at your speed to chat with and help the miles go by faster.

depending on the heat I take along a quart freezer ziplock and a bandana. When I stop at a store I can fill the bag with ices and wrap it in the bandana and put it on the back of my neck under the jersey. The bandana keeps it from freezing your skin. The ice will eventually melt and usually leak out an it will still be cooler than the outside temp. You could also use a tube sock filled with ice and tied off on the end and wrapped around your neck.

[soulspinner]

Make sure you sleep well

[srice]

I just completed my 10th SR series a couple of weeks ago. 300K is probably my favorite distance and if you keep moving, it is usually doable to finish before dark. Plan your stops before you get to them. Think about what you need to do. Be as efficient off the bike as possible. If the stop is at a C store, grab what you need before you walk up to the counter to get your card stamped. I've seem too many randonneurs get their card stamped, wander around the store trying to decide what they want and then go pay for it. By this time, I'm refueled and back on the bike. Even if they are riding faster than me, it still takes some time to make up 5-10 minutes on the road.

If the high temps are forecasted to be in the 90's, get some distance taken care of when it is early and slow down during the heat of the day. Take a tube sock to use as an ice sock. Keep yourself as cool (and as efficient) as possible.

[merlinmurph]

Good luck to you guys doing this ride. Gonna be toasty, ride accordingly.
Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[dogdriver]

D Z Nutz

[JLP]

Just like the 200, but keep eating and hydrating. Everyone is different, but I find I need real food on a 300 which isn't a problem to digest at my pace.

[JEMM]

pace your self. eat eat eat. drink drink drink. think of happy tots. always believe pain is temporary :)

[Louis]

So, how did it go?

[moose8]

So, how did it go?

It went long! I was riding from 6 am to 1 am. It was also brutally hot - in the 90s with serious humidity. I got to ride for a little bit with fellow forumite Chris, who was very nice and much faster than me, as I didn't see him after the second checkpoint. Once the sun went down it started being much less brutally hot. According to ridewith GPS it was 13,052 feet of climbing over 193 miles. Did I mention it was hot?

I can't believe people can do the 400, 600 and 1200. I kind of wonder what it would be like if it weren't so hot as I am not really used to riding in that kind of weather. Overall, it was really fun and I am glad I did it. I met lots of nice people and saw lots of cool bikes.

[coylifut]

that's a lot climbing and even more heat. the last 300 I did, I completed in 10:48. It was 55 at the start and never got over 70 on the ride. you don't have to stop nearly as much to fill up bottles. great job. don't get discouraged, but you may want to find a series in a cooler part of the year.

[firerescuefin]

It went long! I was riding from 6 am to 1 am. It was also brutally hot - in the 90s with serious humidity. I got to ride for a little bit with fellow forumite Chris, who was very nice and much faster than me, as I didn't see him after the second checkpoint. Once the sun went down it started being much less brutally hot. According to ridewith GPS it was 13,052 feet of climbing over 193 miles. Did I mention it was hot?

I can't believe people can do the 400, 600 and 1200. I kind of wonder what it would be like if it weren't so hot as I am not really used to riding in that kind of weather. Overall, it was really fun and I am glad I did it. I met lots of nice people and saw lots of cool bikes.

Congrats on the accomplishment!

At what point...if ever...were you just wanting to be done/get me off this bike?

[merlinmurph]

I was actually thinking about you guys. We were headed up to Mt Monadnock and crossed the route a few times. I was looking for riders.

For those of you who didn't get moose's comment about how hot it was - it was hot! Nasty hot. Great job, moose, that had to have been tough.

Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[cp43]

It went long! I was riding from 6 am to 1 am. It was also brutally hot - in the 90s with serious humidity. I got to ride for a little bit with fellow forumite Chris, who was very nice and much faster than me, as I didn't see him after the second checkpoint. Once the sun went down it started being much less brutally hot. According to ridewith GPS it was 13,052 feet of climbing over 193 miles. Did I mention it was hot?

I can't believe people can do the 400, 600 and 1200. I kind of wonder what it would be like if it weren't so hot as I am not really used to riding in that kind of weather. Overall, it was really fun and I am glad I did it. I met lots of nice people and saw lots of cool bikes.

Congrats on finishing! It was a really tough ride. Did you end up riding with Emily all day?

It was nice riding with you too. As it turns out, I wasn't much faster than you, I finished at 11:30. Which means I averaged less than 1 mph faster.

The heat makes a big difference on a ride like that, I was at least an hour faster last year, when we had rain and cool temps all day.

Also, a quick story, since people here seem to be interested in squirrels. Early in the ride, I was riding next to another rider, chatting, when all of a sudden, a grey squirrel fell from above, right between us, and landed with a thud on the pavement. I have never seen anything like that before, I looked back at the squirrel in the road, and it twitched a bit, then lay still. I assumed it had died from the fall. A minute or so later, Moose caught up to me, and asked if I had seen the squirrel napping the road. As he rode past it, it woke up, and ran off the road, apparently no worse for having fallen. Not terribly exciting, but I thought worth mentioning.

Chris

[moose8]

I can verify the squirrel story - I find myself counting roadkill on my long rides sometimes and had added this squirrel to the tally because it was on its side and not moving. Right as I rode past it, it jumped straight up way off the ground then dashed back to the tree it fell out of.

In terms of when I was ready for the ride to be over, I'd say about 1/3 of the way into the last 55 mile segment I was feeling pretty done. On the fourth of five segments I also really needed to use a restroom but it was through a rural area where there didn't seem to be any. Once I got to the last control my ride then proceeded much better than it had that segment.

On the ride I was swearing I would never try a 400, now I am thinking "well if I do this and I do that it might be better and if it's not so hot..."

I think my problem areas included not taking in enough electrolytes - I drank a ton of water, as I carried 3 water bottles with one of them being a giant one, which I filled from the first control and drank between each control - so 17 water bottles/gatorades (388 ounces/3 gallons by my math), plus probably another 100 ounces of liquids or so at the controls. I didn't pee from like 11 until 9 though. I'm going to look into tablets or something to make sure I take in enough electrolytes. Any recommendations?

I also found myself not wanting to eat at all on the last segment. I forced myself to I think only once over the last 4 hours when I was feeling low. I'm not sure if this is something I need to change, or if not eating when you really don't feel like eating is ok.

I also rode my bike that weighs a solid 30 pounds, so I am thinking if I try it on my light bike it might be a little easier over that distance too - I was planning on using it but then had an issue where I lost a part and couldn't get a replacement in time so I went with my touring/commuting bike.

Yesterday when I woke up I had sore knees, which I never have, so I am hoping that is just how it goes as today they are totally fine. My left hand though is acting a little wonky/clawlike, but is quickly getting better. Other than that, physically I feel fine today two days after, whereas on a 200k a few years ago I felt sore in my back for like two weeks.

[cp43]

For electrolyte replacement, I use Camelbak Elixr tablets. They're an effervescent tablet you add to the waterbottle. They give a little flavor, a little fizz, and some electrolytes. Hammer, Nuun, and I think others make similar products. I like the Camelbak flavor best, but I'm sure they all work. The big advantage over powdered mixes it that they come in a little tube of 12 tablets. So, there's no bag of powder to deal with, and you don't have to measure, just drop a tablet into the bottle.

Also, it's worth carrying some endurolytes (http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/endurolytes.elt.html?navcat=fuels-energy-drinks) tablets. They're a pill of electrolytes, and they're great for quickly helping to eliminate cramping.

Food wise, I've found that I have to eat quite a bit on a long ride. I've also found that often, if I'm not feeling great, but I don't feel hungry, I'm actually hungry, and I'll feel much better if I eat something. Feeling like eating, and needing to eat something aren't always the same. Eating on a long ride is pretty personal though, and everyone reacts differently, especially in the heat. I would suggest though, that you try to eat more when you are feeling tired on the bike, even if you don't feel hungry.

A lighter bike, if it's as comfortable will be better. However, you'll want to be able to carry all of your gear (jacket, lights, warm gloves, etc) on the bike. If you can get sufficient luggage on the light bike, go for it.

Good luck on the 400K, if you decide to do it.

Chris

[PSC]

I have a Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30 and it is a very comfortable bike with my B-17 saddle, but it is heavy. I generally ride 2 mph slower than my lightweight bike. That 2 mph slower with the climbing you did is about is about 3 hours more in the saddle.

[moose8]

I have a Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30 and it is a very comfortable bike with my B-17 saddle, but it is heavy. I generally ride 2 mph slower than my lightweight bike. That 2 mph slower with the climbing you did is about is about 3 hours more in the saddle.

That's the exact setup I have along with rack/bag and inline brake levers. I feel like now I definitely have to try the 400 to test to see what difference a few changes would make.

[joosttx]

On the ride I was swearing I would never try a 400, now I am thinking "well if I do this and I do that it might be better and if it's not so hot..."
......

I also rode my bike that weighs a solid 30 pounds, so I am thinking if I try it on my light bike it might be a little easier over that distance too - I was planning on using it but then had an issue where I lost a part and couldn't get a replacement in time so I went with my touring/commuting bike.


First way to go, congrats! A little word to the wise, many people including me think the 400k is tougher than a 600k. So you may want to consider a 600k next. Secondly, a lighter bike will help you.

[goonster]

I'm going to look into tablets or something to make sure I take in enough electrolytes. Any recommendations?
On brevets I try to gobble Hammer Endurolytes at a steady clip, and that helps with potassium and such, but it is probably difficult to get sufficient sodium on a very hot day with the standard supplements. My preferred sodium top-up is a salty snack (pretzels, Fritos, etc.) washed down with V8 juice.

Learn to recognize your signs of electrolyte depletion. For me, constant need to pee, inappropriate lack of appetite, mild nausea, headache behind temples are all things that I now consider possible signs of hyponatremia, and have successfully cured in the past with a salty snack.

[bambam]

Congrats on your first 300k. :hello:

Just remember as much as you can and apply that if you try to do a 400.
Remember the good and bad. Also remember it is easier to eat/drink when you are not hungry/thirsty that to try and recover when you are already hungry/thirsty.

[soulspinner]

Nice going.

[ptourkin]

On brevets I try to gobble Hammer Endurolytes at a steady clip, and that helps with potassium and such, but it is probably difficult to get sufficient sodium on a very hot day with the standard supplements. My preferred sodium top-up is a salty snack (pretzels, Fritos, etc.) washed down with V8 juice.

Learn to recognize your signs of electrolyte depletion. For me, constant need to pee, inappropriate lack of appetite, mild nausea, headache behind temples are all things that I now consider possible signs of hyponatremia, and have successfully cured in the past with a salty snack.

+1 on pretzels and V8 on brevets. I had a bad cramp episode at the Mt. Laguna Challenge this year and thinking back I attribute it to the healthy food supplied at the sags - I always eat pretzels or other salty junk on brevets. I can't believe I didn't consider V8 until it was supplied by a mobile control on a very remote 600k. It's a perfect sodium delivery system that is easy on my stomach. Also, occasional cans (or better, bottles from Mexico) of real coke, which I never drink otherwise.