Electronic Shifting: Is it the future?

[pjmsj21]

I am in the serious consideration stage of having a new frame built that I plan to keep for a decade or so. And in going through the process of deciding on material (ti or carbon or combo), builder, etc. the question of components comes up and the inevitable question of do you jump on the band wagon of electronic shifting and design a frame with that assumption? The price premium is likely to go down and will finding cable activated shifters be as daunting as finding triples.

So I would appreciate any wisdom or thoughts on will electronic shifting make bikes with cable shifting a thing of the past in the next five years? and if you happen to be purchasing a new frame are you opting for old school or new school shifting?

Pat Mc

[soulspinner]

Well ya its the future and no I cant think of it till college is payed

[FlashUNC]

I've straddled the fence. Installed electronic bits on a frame designed for mechanical.

Short answer is I think both systems will continue to exist in parallel for years to come.

However, electronic is legit, imo.

[christian]

In 2017, the top mechanical group will be Tiagra.

[esldude]

Sorry, my crystal ball is broken. So take it for what it is worth.

I don't know if the price of electronic will in the next decade reach down to lower level serious bikes. But I believe for mid-level and up it will become if not the norm, at least equally represented as mechanical. I believe the top levels it will pretty much rule.

But I don't see quality mechanical becoming scarce for at least a generation. Heck I bought some nice 27 inch tires for my old Motobecane a few months back.

[cash05458]

more pure industry bs in my opinion to get us to spend more and more...really, that finger throw is all tough? can't wait for the study that says not throwing that finger shift saves how many watts per hour...total bull****...
at that point just buy an actual motorcycle...

[slidey]

I've never used electronic groupsets, nor am I interested...augurs quite well for me, since I can't afford it either ;)

Personal opinion:
However, I find something sacrilegious about programming shifter performance using a computer. Not living in a cave, I've got enough tech whizbang going on in my life, and the last thing I need when I'm riding is some more of the tech sorcery. Moreover, having been involved with the tech side of things for a while now I know that nothing which runs software is ever glitch-free or easy to debug, and I'd rather not have to come to the point where my bike maintenance now involves OS upgrades, and debugging my shifters/derailleurs! :cool:

[christian]

However, I find something sacrilegious about programming shifter performance using a computer.This was one of my favorite threads from a few weeks ago:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=126672&highlight=Shimano+SM-PCE1+Windows

Really, I have no idea.

[bicycletricycle]

i use a lot of 20 year old parts and they work great so even if every single new part is electronic next year ill still have plenty of equipment for a while.

that being said, i do not think that it is going to be extremely dominate because of cost.

[Louis]

This was one of my favorite threads from a few weeks ago:

As long as I can program the system with my TRS-80 I'm all set.

http://oldcomputers.net/pics/trs80pc3.jpg

[slidey]

Holy crap! How did I miss that? Or maybe I did see it, but didn't bother registering it :p

This was one of my favorite threads from a few weeks ago:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=126672&highlight=Shimano+SM-PCE1+Windows

Really, I have no idea.

[witcombusa]

Electronic Shifting: Is it the future?



No

[cash05458]

interesting thing if you have been watching alot of races this year is the things are blowing off fairly regularly...much more than should be...I am sure they will inevitably work out the "kinks" but still, they can't be happy with the bad publicity...totally needless and silly imho...

[Pete Mckeon]

Then go with that one. It is very personal just as other aspects of cycling are.

I do not know of many people going out and getting electronic shifting that are happy with their current mechanical ones.

There are so many things that companies try -- - - over the years there has been biospace cranks, all types of pedals, all types of frames and very few items have displaced everything in that category, In my latest trip of 45 riders, only about 10 had the electronic.

All used was shimano and folks either liked them or did not like them - - -not lusted them)

The informal pole showed only folks entering into cycling and buying a new bike - considered electronic.

Go with the one that pleases you the most NOW and that you think will please YOU over the next 2 years.

After that you might or might not want a change in frame or newer types of components,:confused:

[Ralph]

Yes.....it is the future. But think I can maintain my mechancal Campy stuff for a good long while. But I'm not fighting the future. Will upgrade when it makes sense for me to do so.

[pjmsj21]

As the OP, the question isn't about upgrade to an existing bike or frame but rather would you make the jump if you were going to be buying a new frame or complete bike in the near future?

[christian]

My next bike won't be for a few years, but yes, I think I'll be going electronic.

As for you, it's tough to weigh in without knowing the other particulars. For a modern carbon race bike to be ridden on Sundays, no question. For a steel all-rounder, maybe. For an aluminum crit racer, no way. And how price sensitive are you? If $10,000 is a rounding error, then go for it.

[reggiebaseball]

if you want longevity you do not want carbon in any combination in there.

Ti or steel.

Mechanical cable shifting, with cable stops and externally routed brake and gear cables.

Threaded bottom bracket. External 1-1/8 headset.


If you want a bike that looks dated and has 85% depreciation in 3 years, go for carbon, matter black with gloss logos, internal electronic shifting only and the biggest headset diameter you can find.

[shovelhd]

It's not the future, it's today. It is a very polarizing technology, much like carbon, although any technology used in a sport that doesn't demand it will have its share of "it works, so I like it" owners.

I think it's one of the best improvements to a racing bike ever devised, and I love it.

[cash05458]

not to argue...but that is a pretty strong point...I am curious as to how you think it is one of the best improvements ever devised via bikes? I mean, what specifically...?

[Louis]

No doubt in my mind: pneumatic tires, and shift-on-the-fly gearing. Everything else since that is small potatoes. (unless you you want to add quality saddles to the list)

[Len J]

It's not the future, it's today. It is a very polarizing technology, much like carbon, although any technology used in a sport that doesn't demand it will have its share of "it works, so I like it" owners.

I think it's one of the best improvements to a racing bike ever devised, and I love it.

Slightly overstated IMO

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[danl1]

Well, every "mechanical" frame can take e-kit. The worst outcome is a couple of disused shifter bosses, and those could be ground off if they offended too much.

No 'electronic' frame can be retrofit to mech without a trip to the welder and the painter. And ideal e-builds differ a bit between brands. And consider: the wiring "standard" for Shimano (and so the holes and grommets) have already changed. I'm guessing we haven't seen the end of that.

And goofy as it is, we'll probably end up with wireless relatively soon, making the question moot.

Electronic is going to get the press and the attention. That doesn't mean it's actually meaningfully better or more useful. It's legit, but I don't see the compelling argument.

For the next few years at least, all the majors have committed to parallel development of electronic and mechanical. After that, they'll be supported with consumables indefinitely, and moving over to electronic will always work.

[bicycletricycle]

My mechanical groups "shift on the fly"

What do you mean by "shift on the fly"?


No doubt in my mind: pneumatic tires, and shift-on-the-fly gearing. Everything else since that is small potatoes. (unless you you want to add quality saddles to the list)

[alessandro]

I have zero interest in electronic shifting. Hydraulic shifting: now that's something I'd like to try.

[ctcyclistbob]

Yes.....it is the future. But think I can maintain my mechancal Campy stuff for a good long while. But I'm not fighting the future. Will upgrade when it makes sense for me to do so.

+1 ... well stated.

[Louis]

My mechanical groups "shift on the fly"

What do you mean by "shift on the fly"?

A long time ago you had to get off the bike and manually move the chain from one gear to the other. Bikes had more than one gear, but you could not change the gear while riding.

[mosca]

I have zero interest in electronic shifting. Hydraulic shifting: now that's something I'd like to try.

Thank you, I thought I was the only one that felt that way. I wonder if we can convince Campy to make a fully hydraulic gruppo.:)

[etu]

no argument on being thankful for shift on the fly!:banana:

A long time ago you had to get off the bike and manually move the chain from one gear to the other. Bikes had more than one gear, but you could not change the gear while riding.

[OtayBW]

Thank you, I thought I was the only one that felt that way. I wonder if we can convince Campy to make a fully hydraulic gruppo.:)
I was actually thinking telekinetic shifting, myself....:rolleyes:

[Z3c]

I assume some of you have typewriters rigged to your CPU?? That's the difference; nothing is automatic(just waiting for the mandatory/idiotic auto transmission comment) all the interaction is still there, just less effort. I can comfortably type longer on a keyboard than I can on a typewriter and I bet most of you can too. I have no idea how many watts I am saving though..

I don't understand the hate.. I suppose if the web had been around when down tube shifting was dying it would have yielded the same babble. Maybe we could make a stand against technology and go back to typing and faxing in our comments and someone could scan them in and post them.. I'll check back in a week to see what's new.

[T.J.]

Ha! I was one of the biggest " there is no need for elec shifting" people there was....until I rode it. I'm hooked ! I like new tech , shoot, I'm posting from my iPad of iPhone 90% of the time.


Funny observation. There was a thread about DI2 and one of the main people opposed kept posting about how there was nothing wrong with DT shifters, there was no need for anything more etc etc. at the bottom of every post was the whole " sent from my iPad using tapatalk HD " ....the irony was not lost on me

[choke]

I think it very likely is what nearly all groups will be in the not so distant future.

and if you happen to be purchasing a new frame are you opting for old school or new school shifting?I have a frame on order right now and it will be old school - as in it will have downtube shifter bosses. But I have no intention to switch to electronic shifting at any point.

[Len J]

I assume some of you have typewriters rigged to your CPU?? That's the difference; nothing is automatic(just waiting for the mandatory/idiotic auto transmission comment) all the interaction is still there, just less effort. I can comfortably type longer on a keyboard than I can on a typewriter and I bet most of you can too. I have no idea how many watts I am saving though..

I don't understand the hate.. I suppose if the web had been around when down tube shifting was dying it would have yielded the same babble. Maybe we could make a stand against technology and go back to typing and faxing in our comments and someone could scan them in and post them.. I'll check back in a week to see what's new.

It's not hate on my part. I rented a bike with it and the strongest reaction I had was ...... meh.

A well tuned mechanical system does everything electronic does except auto-trim the FD......something that requires a slight manual trim w mechanical. Doesn't seem like an improvement worth a couple of thousand $'s to me.

It's also in its infancy development wise. As Dan points out, before it stabilizes, there will be many changes. So the cost of being on the bleeding edge goes up even more.

IMO...ymmv.

Len

[OtayBW]

I don't understand the hate..
Nope - simple preference is all...at least at this point in time for me.
Of course, I also choose to shave only with a straight razor and haven't touched a MachTurboFusionWhatever for years. There is just a simple elegance of steel and stone (hone). Oh - and it happens to be a much better shave to close the analogy loop....

[slidey]

Yup...jedi-mind shifting!

May the Force be with you...as long as it ain't SRAM's doing. :p

I was actually thinking telekinetic shifting, myself....:rolleyes:

[slidey]

No hate here either. I simply fail to see the fuss of it all, and am unwilling to take up the additional, and expensive headache of helping the big-3 beta test their softwares unto perfection; at which time in all likelihood it'll be time to move onto wireless shifting. When the technology reaches a more stable stage with a proven degree of reliability and noticeable advantage over a comprable mechanical groupset for a lesser economical difference, then I'll consider a change.

I don't understand the hate..

[cmg]

what are all the mechanical problems at this years giro? I thought they had to do with electronic shifting.

[shovelhd]

not to argue...but that is a pretty strong point...I am curious as to how you think it is one of the best improvements ever devised via bikes? I mean, what specifically...?

No argument, it's an opinion thread after all. I said it was a polarizing technology, this thread proves it. My comments were made in the context of racing bikes, as in bikes that people race. I have not ridden EPS only Di2. Shifting is lightning quick and consistent, two things that are critical to racers.

[Rada]

Electronic shifting might be the future, but not in mine. It might actually have a short life span as it will likely be made obsolete by wireless. Mechanical will still be around long after.

[MattTuck]

Electronic shifting will be the future. The reality is that it is 'new' which sells, and complex mechanical brifters will eventually be more expensive to produce than the electric switches required for electronic shifting. For these two reasons alone, it is likely that electronic shifting will be the future.

That said, I think electronic shifting will go to wireless either in the next generation or the one after that. I started a thread a week or two ago about "stop drilling holes in frames for di2" with my thesis basically being we're going to be left with a bunch of frames with holes in them and no di2 cables going into the holes.

Not sure if that helps, but I think mechanical will still be working in a decade.

[palincss]

No doubt in my mind: pneumatic tires, and shift-on-the-fly gearing. Everything else since that is small potatoes. (unless you you want to add quality saddles to the list)

Is there any modern drive train other than fixed gear, flip-flop hubs, and the Rivendell Quickbeam shift-with-a-stick that aren't shift-on-the-fly? Even the rod operated "clanger" front derailleurs were shift-on-the-fly. You don't need to use electric motors, solenoids and batteries to achieve that.

[Louis]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the first multiple-gear bikes used flip-flop hubs and thus could not be shifted while riding.

Here's some interesting info on a shaft-drive design with three gears: Hill Climber (http://www.fusionstudios.com/hill-climber/Album/hill-climber%20bicycle_story.html)

http://www.fusionstudios.com/hill-climber/Album/Scharbach/pschar3.jpg

http://www.fusionstudios.com/hill-climber/photos/DSCN1268.gif

[coylifut]

yes. for racing it is the future and fully proven on the most difficult pro cycling environment and that is professional cyclocross on the European continent. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be used. In the next 5 years, it will be used by cat 1-3 riders at the local level. You can already get an Ultegra Di2 mini group for under $1k. Is it the future for non competitive enthusiasts, yup. Will there be quality mechanical systems still available. yes again.

with that said, I did have a pal show up to race and couldn't race because he hadn't charged his Di2 battery for a couple months.

[slidey]

This, I'm afraid I don't agree with. They're being used by pro-racers because they're being paid to use it. If things break down and a support vehicle is nearby, it takes less than a minute to swap out bikes and that perhaps won't even be caught on camera. Having said that, I don't deny that there is a very high level of quality of most electronic groupsets in the market now, but they definitely have introduced their own set of glitches which need some more time to get sorted out.

If it didn't work, it wouldn't be used.

[esldude]

Electronic shifting will be the future. The reality is that it is 'new' which sells, and complex mechanical brifters will eventually be more expensive to produce than the electric switches required for electronic shifting. For these two reasons alone, it is likely that electronic shifting will be the future.

That said, I think electronic shifting will go to wireless either in the next generation or the one after that. I started a thread a week or two ago about "stop drilling holes in frames for di2" with my thesis basically being we're going to be left with a bunch of frames with holes in them and no di2 cables going into the holes.

Not sure if that helps, but I think mechanical will still be working in a decade.

Actually there are a number of alternatives to wireless that do away with wires needed for electronic shifting. On carbon bikes, the frame makers could embed conductors in the carbon. Or very thin flexible metal tape could be put on a frame and painted over. Optical variants perhaps. I bet clever folks could come up with even more.

[TPetsch]

I'm not a fan of electric shifting -yet- but I was just thinking how great the bike will look overall when it goes completely wireless. All those components just mounted there with no cables/wires connecting them or cable bosses or adjusters, so clean looking it will be I tell'ya, you'll see. ...You'll all see!

[bicycletricycle]

No typewriter but I do draw a lot on paper with pencils and ****, I also like cars with foot actuated clutches and arm actuated shift levers, here is a small list of things I like to do that robots and microprocessors can do more effeciently, woodworking, machining, cooking, walking, even bicycle riding itself can be seen as a technology hating activity for Luddites who can't accept the bright future.



I assume some of you have typewriters rigged to your CPU?? That's the difference; nothing is automatic(just waiting for the mandatory/idiotic auto transmission comment) all the interaction is still there, just less effort. I can comfortably type longer on a keyboard than I can on a typewriter and I bet most of you can too. I have no idea how many watts I am saving though..

I don't understand the hate.. I suppose if the web had been around when down tube shifting was dying it would have yielded the same babble. Maybe we could make a stand against technology and go back to typing and faxing in our comments and someone could scan them in and post them.. I'll check back in a week to see what's new.

[coylifut]

This, I'm afraid I don't agree with. They're being used by pro-racers because they're being paid to use it. If things break down and a support vehicle is nearby, it takes less than a minute to swap out bikes and that perhaps won't even be caught on camera. Having said that, I don't deny that there is a very high level of quality of most electronic groupsets in the market now, but they definitely have introduced their own set of glitches which need some more time to get sorted out.

Yeah the old bike racers as sheep argument. Materials providers need to prove to the Sven Nys's of the world that their widget will work. Their contracts specifically state if materials provided won't do the job, they can substitute material that will. electronic is far more reliable than mechanical for cross because of how a really sloppy course can quickly degrade shifting quality. there is no support vehicle for off cameral bike changes. there is a pit and if you have a mechanical shortly after leaving the pit, it's a 1.5k run to the other side. game over. go find someone using Di2 for cross that calls it glitchy. And in fact, I've yet to see one fail under racing conditions. If you want glitchy, buy SRAM. Talk to the top team mechanics and ask them if they find Di2 glitchy. I have, and they don't.

[Tabularosa78]

When campy 11 came out I said to myself I would never buy it. Put a record 11 group on a bike and absolutely loved it. Here comes shimano with Di2 and I thought to myself that I would never buy it. Replaced my record 11 group with it and I love it too. It has not degraded the experience I have when I'm just riding along or racing. Life is way too short to not try out new things.

IMO the only thing that should stay mechanical and manual is the shifter in my car :)

[soulspinner]

I'm not a fan of electric shifting -yet- but I was just thinking how great the bike will look overall when it goes completely wireless. All those components just mounted there with no cables/wires connecting them or cable bosses or adjusters, so clean looking it will be I tell'ya, you'll see. ...You'll all see!

That's what Im thinking, wireless computing/shifting. Im in (by then the last is outta college)..............

[Ahneida Ride]

I've never used electronic groupsets, nor am I interested...augurs quite well for me, since I can't afford it either ;)

Personal opinion:
However, I find something sacrilegious about programming shifter performance using a computer. Not living in a cave, I've got enough tech whizbang going on in my life, and the last thing I need when I'm riding is some more of the tech sorcery. Moreover, having been involved with the tech side of things for a while now I know that nothing which runs software is ever glitch-free or easy to debug, and I'd rather not have to come to the point where my bike maintenance now involves OS upgrades, and debugging my shifters/derailleurs! :cool:

Amen ..... Long live RetroShift www.retroshift.com

[oldpotatoe]

I am in the serious consideration stage of having a new frame built that I plan to keep for a decade or so. And in going through the process of deciding on material (ti or carbon or combo), builder, etc. the question of components comes up and the inevitable question of do you jump on the band wagon of electronic shifting and design a frame with that assumption? The price premium is likely to go down and will finding cable activated shifters be as daunting as finding triples.

So I would appreciate any wisdom or thoughts on will electronic shifting make bikes with cable shifting a thing of the past in the next five years? and if you happen to be purchasing a new frame are you opting for old school or new school shifting?

Pat Mc

I don't think so, particularly since the only 3 component makers, 2 of which have electronic, still puts lots of R/D and effort in making mechanical shifting.

Remember it's not truly 'electronic' but electro-mechanical. Same pulleys, chains, ders, just moved with trons rather than with cables.

If I were to but a new frame, I would make it mechanical, you can always put an electronic system on it. ohh, also it's way more expensive.

[oldpotatoe]

more pure industry bs in my opinion to get us to spend more and more...really, that finger throw is all tough? can't wait for the study that says not throwing that finger shift saves how many watts per hour...total bull****...
at that point just buy an actual motorcycle...

when Di2 was brand new, some guy from shimano actually said this..how in the later stages of the race/ride, whatever, the less 'effort' to shift was a game-changer-BS of course but he said it.

[pjmsj21]

I don't think so, particularly since the only 3 component makers, 2 of which have electronic, still puts lots of R/D and effort in making mechanical shift.

If I were to but a new frame, I would make it mechanical, you can always put an electronic system on it. ohh, also it's way more expensive.

Peter......thanks for providing your opinion to the original question but I have also enjoyed the other comments. Actually I am pretty surprised that there would be fewer proponents for it. I will take a Di2 bike for a test ride and go from there but l am leaning towards mechanical primarily for cost considerations.

[oldpotatoe]

[/B]

Peter......thanks for providing your opinion to the original question but I have also enjoyed the other comments. Actually I am pretty surprised that there would be fewer proponents for it. I will take a Di2 bike for a test ride and go from there but l am leaning towards mechanical primarily for cost considerations.

W/o getting into a shimano vs Campagnolo discussion, ride the Di2 with some winter gloves. the wee buttons can be hard to find with gloves. Campagnolo, on the other hand(hand-get it??) is more ergonomic IMHO.

I just finished a Demo Moots with EPS..it is pretty slick, but at the $, still sell more mechanical..Campagnolo and shimano.

[oldpotatoe]

Well, every "mechanical" frame can take e-kit. The worst outcome is a couple of disused shifter bosses, and those could be ground off if they offended too much.

No 'electronic' frame can be retrofit to mech without a trip to the welder and the painter. And ideal e-builds differ a bit between brands. And consider: the wiring "standard" for Shimano (and so the holes and grommets) have already changed. I'm guessing we haven't seen the end of that.

And goofy as it is, we'll probably end up with wireless relatively soon, making the question moot.

Electronic is going to get the press and the attention. That doesn't mean it's actually meaningfully better or more useful. It's legit, but I don't see the compelling argument.

For the next few years at least, all the majors have committed to parallel development of electronic and mechanical. After that, they'll be supported with consumables indefinitely, and moving over to electronic will always work.

After talking to an engineer about this, he mentions, that with the power required, the ders would probably still be wired to a central battery, so there would still be wires to the ders..then wee batteries in the levers to transmit to the ders. But he also mentioned that he didn't see what it would improve and probably hurt performance.

So the only 'wire' going away would be the one to the levers/interface from the battery. Ain't ever gonna be completely wireless, no big batteries in the ders..

[FlashUNC]

After talking to an engineer about this, he mentions, that with the power required, the ders would probably still be wired to a central battery, so there would still be wires to the ders..then wee batteries in the levers to transmit to the ders. But he also mentioned that he didn't see what it would improve and probably hurt performance.

So the only 'wire' going away would be the one to the levers/interface from the battery. Ain't ever gonna be completely wireless, no big batteries in the ders..

Never mind that wireless was attempted over a decade ago. It sucked.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2K_UhzZ9wVQ/S8Mt8CDNyxI/AAAAAAAABLs/qEkKcIoovi0/s400/mektronic.jpg

[JGardner]

I have a Spectrum equipped with Campy SR 11sp mechanical and a Guru Photon equipped with SR EPS. I have about 700 miles on the EPS, but so far I say that there are two "good" things that I experience compared to my mechanical Campy SR 11 sp.

The first is that the EPS down shift tabs are better positioned (for me) when in the drops. However, the bigger "good" is the shifting of the front derraileur on the EPS. The auto trim and ability to shift underload is notable. I have climbed the same hills on both bikes and find that I can upshift and downshift to and from the big ring under load with no mis shifting or dropped chains. I have a K-edge chain catcher on the Spectrum so the chain doesn't drop, but if I didn't have it on, it would have dropped on some occasions. I have on occasion (don't try this at home:no: ) shifted under load with the EPS to see if I would get a mis shift or dropped chain. So far I haven't. I'm very impressed.

Ergonomically speaking, with the exception of the downshift tabs, the "feel" is identical between the two whether it is EPS or mechanical.

If/when the price point drops, I'd expect to see more electronic gruppos out there.

[oldpotatoe]

Never mind that wireless was attempted over a decade ago. It sucked.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2K_UhzZ9wVQ/S8Mt8CDNyxI/AAAAAAAABLs/qEkKcIoovi0/s400/mektronic.jpg

Power came from the top pulley in the RDer..interesting idea, and yes it didn't work

For the post above..Athena EPS..works like SR/Record above it. BUT still the $ of Record mechanical. Like Ultegra Di2-same $ as 9000 mechanical.

[FlashUNC]

Power came from the top pulley in the RDer..interesting idea, and yes it didn't work

For the post above..Athena EPS..works like SR/Record above it. BUT still the $ of Record mechanical. Like Ultegra Di2-same $ as 9000 mechanical.

That was basically my choice earlier this year -- SR/Record mechanical or Athena EPS. Went with the EPS to try something new. Really glad I did so far.

[Retroshift]

While we think it close to madness to run Di2 for cyclocross (most simply due to cost and high number of breakages) it is super stuff and a great option to those who want it. Personally I do get more joy out of the mechanical.

But also consider this: With electronic shifting and todays computers with ability to use GPS, power meters and take in information like gradient bikes will only become easier to ride, they should be able to do all the shifting some day - I am sure many can equate to the older parent who has had constant questions and difficulties getting on with new technology like a computer. Apple has made this much easier for my mum. If some day an electronic system enables my mum can get on a bike and just pedal with NO worry about how or when to shift this alone will make electronic shifting a good asset to the world!

It would at least make our rides more peaceful.

A Goat

[palincss]

With electronic shifting and todays computers with ability to use GPS, power meters and take in information like gradient bikes will only become easier to ride, they should be able to do all the shifting some day...

And you think this is desirable? If the shifting is such a chore to have to do, why bother putting up with the need to pedal? Why not put a motor on it and be done?

For that matter, why not just ride a drone bike, or a virtual all-electronic bicycle? Think of the road rash you could spare yourself, and no need for sunscreen or pumping tires, either.

[Z3c]

No typewriter but I do draw a lot on paper with pencils and ****, I also like cars with foot actuated clutches and arm actuated shift levers, here is a small list of things I like to do that robots and microprocessors can do more effeciently, woodworking, machining, cooking, walking, even bicycle riding itself can be seen as a technology hating activity for Luddites who can't accept the bright future.

I love it! Even after making fun of this someone still had to make the clutch comment. A Di2 bike has the same number of "pedals" as a mechanical system. Nothing is "automatic" so this analogy makes no sense. I drive a manual trans car everyday, have for most of my life. I enjoy it but I don't long for non-powered steering or old hydraulic unassisted clutches(a valid comparison)..

[T.J.]

I love it! Even after making fun of this someone still had to make the clutch comment. A Di2 bike has the same number of "pedals" as a mechanical system. Nothing is "automatic" so this analogy makes no sense. I drive a manual trans car everyday, have for most of my life. I enjoy it but I don't long for non-powered steering or old hydraulic unassisted clutches(a valid comparison)..

Agreed. I travel for work, 800 miles a week +\-. I drive a six speed manual and love it. When it comes to the DI2 it more about the flawless performance.

[tuxbailey]

http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/diy-electronic-bicycle-derailleur

[bfd]

Retro wrote:

<With electronic shifting and todays computers with ability to use GPS, power meters and take in information like gradient bikes will only become easier to ride>

And you think this is desirable?

I don't know if it makes riding easier, but I do find it interesting. A friend of mine has been riding his 1990 Bottechia with Campy C-Record dt shifting since he bought it - 22 years!

Last year, he decided it was time to get a new bike and decided on the Trek Madone with Ultegra Di2. Wow! Shifting is flawless and only takes a flick of his finger. Front shifting is superfast and all you hear is the little buzz when it moves. Further, he got a garmin and the sensor is integrated in the left/ non-drive side chainstay near the bb, so it not only records his speed, but cadance too! The garmin is set to upload his ride to strava and he records his mileage, speed, watts on every ride. Super trick!

Bottom line - it was a great motivator FOR HIM. He now rides all the time and lost like 15lbs! Further, my buddy is now climbing with the best riders in our group. Could he have done the same with his old Bottechia? Maybe. Is this all a result of "new bike syndrome?" Maybe. But, his new bike with Di2 really got him going and for that I say it was worth every cent!

If a new bike, be it carbon, steel or ti with whatever components - Di2, mechanical or just plain old dt/bar-end shifters gets you out and riding, then it is desirable! Good Luck! :eek::banana::butt::hello:

[bicycletricycle]

I love it! Even after making fun of this someone still had to make the clutch comment. A Di2 bike has the same number of "pedals" as a mechanical system. Nothing is "automatic" so this analogy makes no sense. I drive a manual trans car everyday, have for most of my life. I enjoy it but I don't long for non-powered steering or old hydraulic unassisted clutches(a valid comparison)..


i was thinking standard manual transmissions as opposed to flappy paddle shifters, not an automatic.

do you think this is not a valid comparison?

[slidey]

Zis is kool!

http://spectrum.ieee.org/geek-life/hands-on/diy-electronic-bicycle-derailleur

[christian]

While we think it close to madness to run Di2 for cyclocross (most simply due to cost and high number of breakages) it is super stuff and a great option to those who want it.I'm happy with Record mechanical on the road. Hell, I'm happy with Veloce mechanical on the road. But it took me approximately 150 meters of riding Di2 before I said, "Holy ****, this'd be amazing for cross." Not going to make the jump this year, but perfect shifts every time in cross and no frozen cables? That's like Christmas every day.

[Mark McM]

i was thinking standard manual transmissions as opposed to flappy paddle shifters, not an automatic.

do you think this is not a valid comparison?

Yes, I think electronic derailleurs are more like paddle shifters on cars: Both are manually controlled but electrically actuated; both have separate up and down shift buttons/levers/paddles with sequential shifting.

My take on electric shifting is that it is not leap in technology, but simply a motorized version of an already existing mechanical mechanism. In other words it doesn't really add anything new, it simply adds external power to the existing mechanism.

In this way, it is analogous to electric toothbrushes, electric can openers, electric pencil sharpeners, or electric carving knives. They each are viable options (and are preferable to some), but don't represent a great departure from previous methods, and most people get along just fine with the old, non-electric versions.

[bicycletricycle]

Di2 = electric toothbrush

That really sums it up perfectly I think, luckily for me there are still people powered toothbrushes and hopefully there will continue to be people powered shifting.

[AgilisMerlin]

Electronic Shifting: Is it the future?

it is Not: the future shifting electronically :D

[Retroshift]

Everything has its place. Love the mechanical stuff and the idea of electric shifting on a bike is not what I am after personally but technology can be great:

-Di2 could be the make or break difference to riding for people with disabilities, amputees etc -

Goats

[jpw]

Legend mechanical, Meivici electronic, problem solved.

[Salsa_Lover]

Maybe I am an old fart, but electronic shifting on bicycles doesn't interest me at all.

... And I am an electronic engineer, who had years of experience on the automating domain.....

just I don't see the place of electronic servo controlled mechanisms on a bicycle.

Mopeds, wheelchairs, or a big number of other domestic appliances, yes of course.

but for me a bicycle is the perfect man powered machine, to quick commute through the city, as an sport to be in good shape, as a competitive sport... etc

I don't see why you need electric assisted shifting, much less electric braking, the only electronics that are welcome on my bike is the computer, and the lights.

they could focus on the very few other unresolved problems, like for example, braking performance on carbon clincher rims, ( even though I consider this also a non problem, as I use only alu clinchers and carbon tubulars, so no problem at all for me )

maybe work on light and breathing fabrics that will also protect you from road rash when you crash ? A better airbag helmet that protects also your neck ?