New VO Pass Hunter

[phcollard]

I know many here are interested in a budget, decent looking, OK tubes frame that takes larger tires - count me in. Here's something new from VO that I find interesting.

http://velo-orange.blogspot.ca/2013/05/pass-hunter-photos.html

Available in Fall they say. Thoughts? I'm not a fan of the wrapped stays but otherwise I think it looks great!

[phcollard]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3032014/ph1.jpg

[soulspinner]

Exactly what I need. Steel fork fer sure, wide tire capability and fenders fer sure. Durabilty too..............:bike: It even looks good:rolleyes:

[bobswire]

Another frame that I recently found that strikes my interest and fits within the road/gravel do all type all rounder in both a road and cx version. Both take large tires but the road only allows up to 33cm: http://www.blackmtncycles.com/p/black-mountain-cycles-frames.html but that V.O. is very interesting.......

http://i42.tinypic.com/2d1kas5.jpg

[eddief]

suggest some nice touches not often seen from offshore steel except maybe Riv. Nicely curved fork blades and those seat stays wrapping around top and seat tube. Nice looking bike. What do you think of the question about 2 downtube decals or just one on top of the tube? I prefer two I think.

[bobswire]

suggest some nice touches not often seen from offshore steel except maybe Riv. Nicely curved fork blades and those seat stays wrapping around top and seat tube. Nice looking bike. What do you think of the question about 2 downtube decals or just one on top of the tube? I prefer two I think.

I like the one decal and blue frame.

[sulfate125]

Yes, very classy, does the blog say anything about tire clearance?

[staggerwing]

That looks really good on paper/computer screen. Nice lugwork, plenty of spacing, biplane fork crown with nice fork blade curvature, and even the wrap around seat stays.

However, I will wait before plunking my money down. My experience with VO has been a little indifferent. One of their early Brooks clone saddles was junk, and I'm still sore about a set of squeal free brake pads the met the letter of the description but wore through my rims as if they were made form 60 grit sandpaper. On the other hand, their setback seatpost, in silver stems have filled a useful hole, and I did get a nice Sugino compact crank on closeout for low coin. However, the suggested BB resulted in a terrible chainline.

[palincss]

What do you think of the question about 2 downtube decals or just one on top of the tube? I prefer two I think.

When I got my Johnny Coast-built VO Randonneur, the single downtube decal was available, meant as an homage to Alex Singer. I chose the two decals on the sides because I thought it was such a nice bike VO deserved to get a little publicity by having decals people could actually read, that weren't covered up with my water bottle.

[GRAVELBIKE]

That looks really good on paper/computer screen. Nice lugwork, plenty of spacing, biplane fork crown with nice fork blade curvature, and even the wrap around seat stays.

However, I will wait before plunking my money down. My experience with VO has been a little indifferent. One of their early Brooks clone saddles was junk, and I'm still sore about a set of squeal free brake pads the met the letter of the description but wore through my rims as if they were made form 60 grit sandpaper. On the other hand, their setback seatpost, in silver stems have filled a useful hole, and I did get a nice Sugino compact crank on closeout for low coin. However, the suggested BB resulted in a terrible chainline.

In my experience, their seatposts tend to have undersized shafts.

[fourflys]

meh... I'm a a huge fan of the Black Mountain above... in fact I just got off a bike on my Black Mountain Cross... I think the price range, you can't beat Mike's framesets... and he's getting a new shipment of road frames in July in orange and another new color...

[Lanterne Rouge]

I know many here are interested in a budget, decent looking, OK tubes frame that takes larger tires - count me in. Here's something new from VO that I find interesting.

http://velo-orange.blogspot.ca/2013/05/pass-hunter-photos.html

Available in Fall they say. Thoughts? I'm not a fan of the wrapped stays but otherwise I think it looks great!

Nice find, that's my sort of bike. It might be dropping too late (fall) to be my gravel grinder project.

[mainstreetexile]

Looks like they went with Red and the double decals. It's a shame, I think that blue on the prototype was beautiful.

[retrogrouchy]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3032014/ph1.jpg

My main concern with any of these 'price-point' brand-X Cro-mo frames from Taiwan (or is it China in this case?) is that they are usually heavy and over-built, using inexpensive Taiwanese tubing that is rather thick-walled. A frame like that usually feels 'dead' to me.

[yetitotheheady]

I love my Black Mountain Cycles Road bike but I must say the VO looks great. It does have a more elegantly curved fork.

[charliedid]

meh... I'm a a huge fan of the Black Mountain above... in fact I just got off a bike on my Black Mountain Cross... I think the price range, you can't beat Mike's framesets... and he's getting a new shipment of road frames in July in orange and another new color...

Meh?

[modernfuturist]

My main concern with any of these 'price-point' brand-X Cro-mo frames from Taiwan (or is it China in this case?) is that they are usually heavy and over-built, using inexpensive Taiwanese tubing that is rather thick-walled. A frame like that usually feels 'dead' to me.

They've stated that they're going to be using light tubing... Also check out Rawland or Black Mountain Cycles who have shown that you can go with Chinese production but still have lively feeling frames.

[retrogrouchy]

They've stated that they're going to be using light tubing... Also check out Rawland or Black Mountain Cycles who have shown that you can go with Chinese production but still have lively feeling frames.

That means nothing, unfortunately. The issue is the cheap stays and fork blades....

[retrogrouchy]

Meh?

Meh = not good, not bad, just kinda 'meh.'

Often used as a modern replacement for 'whatever....'

[fourflys]

Meh = not good, not bad, just kinda 'meh.'

Often used as a modern replacement for 'whatever....'

yes... it means it looks ok, but nothing that jumps out at me...

[palincss]

That means nothing, unfortunately. The issue is the cheap stays and fork blades....

Whose "cheap stays and fork blades"? Does this refer to Rawland and Black Mountain, VO, or everyone in general?

Incidentally, apropos of "cheap stays," many of the French constructeurs used less expensive Reynolds "Speedy" tubing for the stays on their 2nd tier models while the rest of the frame was 531. Although this added a little weight, it does not seem to have harmed the ride of these bikes at all.

[fourflys]

They've stated that they're going to be using light tubing... Also check out Rawland or Black Mountain Cycles who have shown that you can go with Chinese production but still have lively feeling frames.

Black Mountain uses Taiwan, not China FWIW...

[sjbraun]

Which frames have you ridden to come to that conclusion?


My main concern with any of these 'price-point' brand-X Cro-mo frames from Taiwan (or is it China in this case?) is that they are usually heavy and over-built, using inexpensive Taiwanese tubing that is rather thick-walled. A frame like that usually feels 'dead' to me.

[modernfuturist]

Black Mountain uses Taiwan, not China FWIW...

Whoops my bad.

Anyways didn't mean to stir up the hornets nest here, and I personally believe tires account for most of the "feel" on a bike, but different folks, different strokes.

I haven't been too impressed by VO's stuff in the past, but am glad that there are plenty of options now when seeking production road/rando frames.

[fourflys]

Whoops my bad.

Anyways didn't mean to stir up the hornets nest here, and I personally believe tires account for most of the "feel" on a bike, but different folks, different strokes.

I haven't been too impressed by VO's stuff in the past, but am glad that there are plenty of options now when seeking production road/rando frames.

agree on both... and I'm not saying Chinese steel bikes are bad, I have no idea... I know the BMCs are made in Taiwan, in fact the writing on the top tube says "Black Mountain Bikes" in Taiwanese...

[retrogrouchy]

Whose "cheap stays and fork blades"? Does this refer to Rawland and Black Mountain, VO, or everyone in general?

Incidentally, apropos of "cheap stays," many of the French constructeurs used less expensive Reynolds "Speedy" tubing for the stays on their 2nd tier models while the rest of the frame was 531. Although this added a little weight, it does not seem to have harmed the ride of these bikes at all.

I'm only referring to V-O, as that is the topic here. I have one of their Rando. frames from Taiwan. It's a bit heavy, frankly, imho. YMMV.

[retrogrouchy]

Which frames have you ridden to come to that conclusion?

Over the past forty years? Quite a few....

[GuyGadois]

Will they offer a Di2 or EPS pre drilled version of the frame? :rolleyes:

GG

[charliedid]

Meh = not good, not bad, just kinda 'meh.'

Often used as a modern replacement for 'whatever....'

Yeah, I'm familiar with the term. I just think it rather smug and odd to be comparing the finer build points and ride characteristics of two similarly produced frames. Neither of which likely ride terribly well...

The idea that the Black Mountain is so much better than the VO is playing favorites IMO

Either way...bikes, go ride em.

[soulspinner]

Will they offer a Di2 or EPS pre drilled version of the frame? :rolleyes:

GG

Comes with a helmet and integrated Google glass with an option for voice shifting..:rolleyes:

[AngryScientist]

i like it, and love the concept. it will likely be pretty cheap money for a very capable steel frame. it's good to have options for a steel frame/fork that fits fat tires with road geometry. i'd love to pick one of these up and put some real miles on it. screams "get out and hit the road" to me. cool bike.

[dancinkozmo]

i like it....would look bitchin' with some Lightweights !!

[dbh]

I think it looks great, but wish they went with the blue. Hopefully the tubing is up to snuff, and isn't cheapo gas pipe stuff. Seems to fill a niche for an affordable, level top tube steel roadie with provisions for fenders and wide tires. For example the Surly Pacer has some pretty strange geo and a lot of th Soma stuff have sloping top tubes. Hopefully VO doesn't go all wonky with the sizing and sticks to a fairly traditional stage race geo. Kudos on the properly curved fork blades. On production steel frames from Asia, they almost always look like they were an afterthought.

[yetitotheheady]

I think it looks great, but wish they went with the blue. Hopefully the tubing is up to snuff, and isn't cheapo gas pipe stuff. Seems to fill a niche for an affordable, level top tube steel roadie with provisions for fenders and wide tires. For example the Surly Pacer has some pretty strange geo and a lot of th Soma stuff have sloping top tubes. Hopefully VO doesn't go all wonky with the sizing and sticks to a fairly traditional stage race geo. Kudos on the properly curved fork blades. On production steel frames from Asia, they almost always look like they were an afterthought.

I agree with this, especially about the fork comment, why is it hard to get a proper curve? most mass produced steel forks look like they are bent at an angle instead of curved.

[fourflys]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the term. I just think it rather smug and odd to be comparing the finer build points and ride characteristics of two similarly produced frames. Neither of which likely ride terribly well...

The idea that the Black Mountain is so much better than the VO is playing favorites IMO

Either way...bikes, go ride em.

well, that's kind of what we do isn't it? For others the VO could be the perfect bike... for me, it's "meh"... I don't care for the aesthetics and nothing else really stands out to me... the designer doesn't really have the pedigree that the BMC has... maybe the designer is great, but maybe not...

so am I playing favorites? sure, but that's how any purchase is made... we take the information we have experienced, read, and seen and pick a favorite...

[sjbraun]

Over the past forty years? Quite a few....

Gee, thanks for the information. I can see you must know a lot about bikes and stuff.

[EricEstlund]

why is it hard to get a proper curve?

Not to comment on the VO (I've never seen one of these in person), but it is indeed "hard" to get a proper curve. Fork blades taper and change shape, and getting a just-so bend is deceptively challenging, as is incorporating it smoothly between the crown and the fork tips. I know it's something I spend quite a bit of time with, and is something I look at with both production and custom bikes.

[charliedid]

well, that's kind of what we do isn't it? For others the VO could be the perfect bike... for me, it's "meh"... I don't care for the aesthetics and nothing else really stands out to me... the designer doesn't really have the pedigree that the BMC has... maybe the designer is great, but maybe not...

so am I playing favorites? sure, but that's how any purchase is made... we take the information we have experienced, read, and seen and pick a favorite...

Sure, I guess we all play favorites but it just seems to me we are talking apples to apples for the most part. I mean we are not comparing a custom spec'd steel tube set chosen by Eric Estlund at Winter to a Taiwan or Chinese built budget frame.

Meh, is just sort of flip and can often be taken as an insult. Pedigree? Comparing the quality of the VO to the Black Mountain, it's pretty much the same stuff...regardless of who designed it and who melted it together in China or Taiwan.

No harm.

[yetitotheheady]

Not to comment on the VO (I've never seen one of these in person), but it is indeed "hard" to get a proper curve. Fork blades taper and change shape, and getting a just-so bend is deceptively challenging, as is incorporating it smoothly between the crown and the fork tips. I know it's something I spend quite a bit of time with, and is something I look at with both production and custom bikes.

Thank you Eric for the incite. Your bikes, forks, and stems are always so dialed.

[fourflys]

Meh, is just sort of flip and can often be taken as an insult. Pedigree? Comparing the quality of the VO to the Black Mountain, it's pretty much the same stuff...regardless of who designed it and who melted it together in China or Taiwan.

No harm.

and this is really where you don't know anything about the Black Mountain... Mike did go over to Taiwan, to the small shop that makes his frames and spec the tubes he wanted... maybe Chris did that with the VO as well, but I haven't read anything about it... and who designed the frame has a huge deal with how it rides... there is a difference between a guy that's been in the industry for a couple decades designing bikes compared with someone who hasn't... (no idea who designed the VO BTW)

Here is what the site says about the tubes on the BMC:
"Crafted from custom drawn and butted chrome-moly steel tubing"
maybe the VO is as well, but I haven't read that... the VO may well be as good or better bike than the BMC, I rally have no idea... the "meh" comment was more about the first impression when I saw it... it just didn't do anything for me...


I admit I don't know much about the VO, it just didn't do anything for me on first glance... maybe I'd have a different opinion seeing it in person...

BTW- I've seen Eric's bikes at Winter Cycles... beautiful and, I agree, a VO or BMC don't hold a candle...

[oldpotatoe]

will they offer a di2 or eps pre drilled version of the frame? :rolleyes:

Gg

diy-

[dbrk]

If the bike is welded straight and the design comes from a well-honed chart, say, right off Hiroshi Iimura's Ebisu charts, then what will not ride fine? It's like a quartz watch: it tells perfect time but when it gets stolen you remember that you didn't have it commissioned by Dufour. Bikes are way better than ever in every respect except cost, so we see things like this VO, which seem absurdly inexpensive, and other things costing more then 10x as much. Bicycles are mostly things we don't need but life is better for them. No grown man uses his phone to check the time if he can wear a watch.

[RFC]

It's now available.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-passhunter-frameset.html

[Lanterne Rouge]

....they didn't go with the blue and the single upward facing graphic.

....they didn't go with a campagnolo style semi horizonal sliding dropout.

....they don't do it in any size larger than a 61.

I was really excited then the OP linked this and I do still really like it but it is not all I hoped it would be *sign.

[cachagua]

48mm fork offset. . . does that seem like a lot?

[soulspinner]

48mm fork offset. . . does that seem like a lot?

Read the tire size. Works out to ideal trail.............

[David Tollefson]

Read the tire size. Works out to ideal trail.............

Ideal for whom?

[bobswire]

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2013-06-06T12:03:00-04:00&max-results=25&start=30&by-date=false
More About the Pass Hunter

We sure got a lot of comments on that last post, so I thought I'd expound on why we designed the Pass Hunter frame as we did.

The bike is TIG welded, but with some "luggy" bits, such as the head tube reinforcement collars and seat cluster. I can't see the advantage of lugged construction for a frame like this. Not having lugs lowers the cost by $200 to $300. Lugs are pretty, but really high quality TIG welding should be appreciated as well, and our builders do some of the best anywhere. Finally eliminating the lugs saves some weight.

The trail was described as "mid-trail". That is to say it's between traditional French geometry and modern race-inspired sport-touring geometry. It's based on extensive research and trial and error here at VO world headquarters. We had to learn to re-rake our own forks so we could adjust the trail until it was perfect. We think this geometry, which has been much praised on the Campeur, allows front or rear loading, stable high speed descending, and just the right balance of quick handling and stability.

We decided to go with the 1-1/8" fork for several reasons. 1-1/8" is more-or-less expected on high performance bikes today and we wanted to make this bike appealing to non- retro grouches. Most Pass Hunters will likely be bought by experienced cyclists who probably know exactly where to set their bars, so quick stem adjustability was not as high a priority. Likewise, the vast majority of these will be built with drop bars, or perhaps MTB bars if pass hunting on gravel roads. I also, personally, wanted to try something different, not just make what's basically the same bike over and over again. The threadless fork is a little lighter and stiffer. And a stiffer head tube and steerer tube can't be a bad thing when bombing down from those high passes. We plan to make one more frame with a threadless fork, but we also plan to keep the Campeur and Polyvalent 1" threaded, as well as the mixte (when it returns in a year or two).

The cost has not been determined, but we're trying to get it under $600. We're still shooting for fall availability.

Finally, we've decided, after reading your comments and discussing staff preferences, to make the frame red. The decals were a harder decision, but we decided to go with two. There will also be a small decal on the seat tube.