Just a teaser Bedford Frame - Ti Carbon mix

[Smiley]

I have more to share and I am seriously considering having the Master build me an all carbon version with Titanium lugs....why cause all carbon has been over done :) And I LOVE the simplistic beauty of a Ti polished lug.

btw this is a split stay bike with a brake bridge :banana:

[oldpotatoe]

I have more to share and I am seriously considering having the Master build me an all carbon version with Titanium lugs....why cause all carbon has been over done :) And I LOVE the simplistic beauty of a Ti polished lug.

btw this is a split stay bike with a brake bridge :banana:

Pretty but if ya like simplistic beauty, why not just all ti? Just asking. I have never really understood the idea to make a really nice riding frame, that lasts forever and put glued carbon plugs in it. Seven started it way back when, now it's some sort of 'standard'..

I donno, not sure what it brings to the ride quality 'table' when compared to nicely designed all titanium.

[moran]

Did Seven start it, or was it IF? Not that it really matters...just curious.

[oldpotatoe]

Did Seven start it, or was it IF? Not that it really matters...just curious.

Pretty sure it was Seven, with a simple carbon 'plug' or section in the seat tube.

[Cat3roadracer]

Beautiful, perhaps a ride up there this Summer?

[Smiley]

Trurth be told a Mix Frame material takes full advantage of placing Ti where its best served and carbon where it can do no harm in breaking. The Ottrott was a very good design even today probably the best all around riding frame Serotta makes.

The Soup Du Jour is all carbon due to weight savings. If I was going to ask Master Builder Bedford to do a carbon bike for me it would be with Ti lugs just to be different and custom, I will also opt for Di2 and go for broke :)

[dyerwolf]

My Ohhh my. Have a blast on this one. What a beauty. I'll be interested in final build.

[reggiebaseball]

I like the twin seatstays.

[alancw3]

Pretty but if ya like simplistic beauty, why not just all ti? Just asking. I have never really understood the idea to make a really nice riding frame, that lasts forever and put glued carbon plugs in it. Seven started it way back when, now it's some sort of 'standard'..

I donno, not sure what it brings to the ride quality 'table' when compared to nicely designed all titanium.

i think moots and erickson agree with you.

[reggiebaseball]

i think moots and erickson agree with you.

Alan and Potatoe, I don't want to bury you in technical terminology that might be over your head, but Firefly tells us that incorporating carbon tubes makes bikes more "bad ass," with additional burl and timelessness.


Firefly Road :: Ti-Carbon

Precise and burly. Light and strong. Modern and timeless. Beautiful and functional. Fast and comfortable. Subtle and stunning. Technology usually reserved for the companies with million dollar R&D budgets, used by a company of three.

“The most bad ass.” That’s what we wrote at the top of the 3′ post-it we used to plan our first bikes before anyone knew we existed. This is what we meant. This is the pinnacle.

[Lionel]

Nice ! I'd paint that fork to match or remove that ugly logo.

[93legendti]

Gorgeous. Mixed frames are my favorite. I prefer my Ottrott to my Concours. Same geometry, same parts.

[beungood]

I like it. Is the Carbon bits for design/look/art or is it used for some construction or performance reason?

[jpw]

what does a ti frame with a carbon seat tube ride like, anyone?

[avalonracing]

Nice ! I'd paint that fork to match or remove that ugly logo.

I am boycotting Enve until they get rid of that horrible logo.

[jr59]

Pretty but if ya like simplistic beauty, why not just all ti? Just asking. I have never really understood the idea to make a really nice riding frame, that lasts forever and put glued carbon plugs in it. Seven started it way back when, now it's some sort of 'standard'..

I donno, not sure what it brings to the ride quality 'table' when compared to nicely designed all titanium.

they got to sell you the latest and greatest!

[rwsaunders]

Enve carbon pipes, Serotta or other?

[Smiley]

Enve carbon pipes, Serotta or other?

Enve pipes and fork, not my bike, sold to a client and not my client either. This is the THIRD Mix Frame Kelly has built and we have not shown it on the website yet.

[InspectorGadget]

Specialized built some Ultimate frames with titanium lugs. I almost bought an S-Works Ultimate (http://www.cycleexif.com/specialized-s-works-epic-ultimate) in 1991, years before the advent of Seven. Just sayin'.

The Bedford looks lovely.

[palincss]

Trurth be told a Mix Frame material takes full advantage of placing Ti where its best served and carbon where it can do no harm in breaking. The Ottrott was a very good design even today probably the best all around riding frame Serotta makes.


Still, where's the advantage of the carbon bits over all titanium, as Oldpotato asks? After all, carbon could do even less harm if you left it out of the equation entirely.

[Len J]

Still, where's the advantage of the carbon bits over all titanium, as Oldpotato asks? After all, carbon could do even less harm if you left it out of the equation entirely.

One data point FWIW. I have had a legend all ti, as well as a Ottrott SE. Both were speced to the same rider.....me.

The Ottrott is smoother and I am less fatigued after long rides and multiple days riding.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[bluesea]

One data point FWIW. I have had a legend all ti, as well as a Ottrott SE. Both were speced to the same rider.....me.

The Ottrott is smoother and I am less fatigued after long rides and multiple days riding.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


How do either compare to the Sachs?

[Len J]

I sold the legend after realizing the Ottrott did everything the legend did, but better.

The Ottrott is smoother over a long ride and less fatiguing although the Sachs is close.....the Ottrott is also lighter.

Both bikes track well and are very confidence inspiring, but the Sachs is just slightly better fitting (although I can't figure out what the difference is, I'm assuming the balance is just that little bit better) better tuned to me, slightly better descending and it's just a bike I never think about. I haven't found its limits yet.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[bart998]

HHmmm, been thinking of an Ottrott, Holland, or Dean Ti/Carbon.... maybe there's another possibility.

[zank]

Pretty sure it was Seven, with a simple carbon 'plug' or section in the seat tube.

Tomac raced one well before Seven was even a glint in Rob V's eye.

[mcteague]

Tomac raced one well before Seven was even a glint in Rob V's eye.

And long before that there was the Graftek. So little is truly new. Still, things improve and a carbon/Ti frame can be a nice mix of each material's better qualities. Never as durable as all Ti; never as light as all carbon. Perhaps a really nice mix of the two.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Alan and Potatoe, I don't want to bury you in technical terminology that might be over your head, but Firefly tells us that incorporating carbon tubes makes bikes more "bad ass," with additional burl and timelessness.

Ahhhh, I get it!

[Ahneida Ride]

what does a ti frame with a carbon seat tube ride like, anyone?

I rode an Ottrott many moons ago that actually fit me.
At the time, my regular ride was my Legend Ti.

It was a truly amazing ride. Different from Ti or steel.
Highly responsive +super comfortable.
It's a magic carpet ride.

It's not a gimmick.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[alancw3]

Alan and Potatoe, I don't want to bury you in technical terminology that might be over your head, but Firefly tells us that incorporating carbon tubes makes bikes more "bad ass," with additional burl and timelessness.

that is not over my head for your info. i was just saying that moots and erickson feel that way for not jumping on the combo. not how i feel. i had an original c'dale six13 with cf tubes and appreciated the attributes attached to it.

[victoryfactory]

There must be a reason why everyone raves about Ottrott.
I have an all Ti Legend which I love but if I have any criticism
of the ride I'd say its a tiny bit "bouncy" compared to my lugged steel
which feels more "planted" I've wondered if the Ti/carbon Frankenstein
bike may be the best combination after all?

VF

[buddybikes]

Just 3 more months to wait for my Firefly carbon/ti!

[yankees1]

Just 3 more months to wait for my Firefly carbon/ti!

Pretty sure Kelly's lead time is about 8 weeks!

[pjmsj21]

Any idea on pricing of these frames yet?

[Bruce K]

I really hate to "challenge" oldpotatoes bike knowledge but wasn't the Trek 2200 a mixed carbon and aluminum frame back in the '90s?

I had one as my first road bike

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . was introduced:

The down tube and top tube placement of the carbon tubes makes the best use of the advantages of the carbon in combo with the Ti. The stiffness of the carbon tubes placed in those locations eliminates front to rear flex during pedaling that loses power and also takes advantage of the carbon's ability to absorb vibration.

This came from Jay the frame designer for the Ottrott in 2002 when I went up to the factory to test ride one. He talked with me for almost 45 minutes after I got back.

The Odonata from Seven had carbon only in the seat tube so did not take maximum advantage of the stiffness factor

BBD

[Pete Mckeon]

Hope it is now on order to arrive in Maryland,:banana:

I have more to share and I am seriously considering having the Master build me an all carbon version with Titanium lugs....why cause all carbon has been over done :) And I LOVE the simplistic beauty of a Ti polished lug.

btw this is a split stay bike with a brake bridge :banana:

[93legendti]

I really hate to "challenge" oldpotatoes bike knowledge but wasn't the Trek 2200 a mixed carbon and aluminum frame back in the '90s?

I had one as my first road bike

BK

Like this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-Trek-2300-carbon-road-bike-shimano-ultegra-RS80-CARBON-WHEELS-SORA-/200922031408?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item2ec7e2e530

[ergott]

It's interesting how we love to say a bike isn't about the numbers. We laugh at the "tests" that quantify stiffness in numbers and come up with the "best" bike.

Then in another discussion you have actual customers that ride a certain bike tell you it's the best riding bike they have owned. I've seen this written countless times about the Ottrott. These are people that have many other bikes so you can't simply call it new bike lust.

There will never be a good enough explanation why the mixed material bike like an Ottrott or Bedford (who built my Ottrott) rides so nice for some people. It's a good thing I didn't listen to the naysayers.

[Bruce K]

It's funny that you say that, Eric.

I rode my Ottrott outdoors the other day for the first time in a year as a "shakedown" for some bike commuting I plan to do.

I had forgotten just how nice of a bike it is to ride, even when compared to my Meivici and my CAAD10

The Ottrott is about 9 years old and is still smooth, comfortable, and quick enough.

BK

[oldpotatoe]

I really hate to "challenge" oldpotatoes bike knowledge but wasn't the Trek 2200 a mixed carbon and aluminum frame back in the '90s?

I had one as my first road bike

BK

So was a Giant(Cadex) and a Vitus..these 'screwed and glued' creations not quite the same as the long 'lugs' made of ti with smaller carbon tube section as seen on the pictured frame, like Merlin(formerly), IF, serotta, Seven and lots of others.

[danielpack22@ma]

The 1985 Peugeot PY-10FC is still one of my favorite bikes (to look at anyway).
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6194/6085775785_6beca428c8_z.jpg

No titanium, just glue and aluminum...

[93legendti]

It's interesting how we love to say a bike isn't about the numbers. We laugh at the "tests" that quantify stiffness in numbers and come up with the "best" bike.

Then in another discussion you have actual customers that ride a certain bike tell you it's the best riding bike they have owned. I've seen this written countless times about the Ottrott. These are people that have many other bikes so you can't simply call it new bike lust.

There will never be a good enough explanation why the mixed material bike like an Ottrott or Bedford (who built my Ottrott) rides so nice for some people. It's a good thing I didn't listen to the naysayers.
Agree 100%. The naysayers are the same usual suspects.

My 2007 Ottrott SE is perfect. I can't wait to ride it tonight.

[Smiley]

Is really good to have cause I think a Mixed Frame material bike to me makes sense. Put the best tube where it works in harmony with the frame.

[oldpotatoe]

Is really good to have cause I think a Mixed Frame material bike to me makes sense. Put the best tube where it works in harmony with the frame.

Lemond-Front ti, aft carbon.

[SPOKE]

It's interesting how we love to say a bike isn't about the numbers. We laugh at the "tests" that quantify stiffness in numbers and come up with the "best" bike.

Then in another discussion you have actual customers that ride a certain bike tell you it's the best riding bike they have owned. I've seen this written countless times about the Ottrott. These are people that have many other bikes so you can't simply call it new bike lust.

There will never be a good enough explanation why the mixed material bike like an Ottrott or Bedford (who built my Ottrott) rides so nice for some people. It's a good thing I didn't listen to the naysayers.

+1!
I was an early adopter of the Ottrott model. Outstanding ride quality.

[Nooch]

Here's a question -- can Kelly manipulate/tune the ride with the Enve carbon tubes as much as Serotta can on the Ottrot with their in-house tubes?

[Bruce K]

I would think he can to a point - Enve doesn't custom wind individual tube sets - Serotta can/could if they wanted to, though probably not cost effective for an individual customer

Also, I don't know how many different tubes Enve currently makes

Serotta can create a new tube as needed

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

The 1985 Peugeot PY-10FC is still one of my favorite bikes (to look at anyway).
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6194/6085775785_6beca428c8_z.jpg

No titanium, just glue and aluminum...

They made the same frame under their own name and under many others.

[Ahneida Ride]

It's interesting how we love to say a bike isn't about the numbers. We laugh at the "tests" that quantify stiffness in numbers and come up with the "best" bike.

Then in another discussion you have actual customers that ride a certain bike tell you it's the best riding bike they have owned. I've seen this written countless times about the Ottrott. These are people that have many other bikes so you can't simply call it new bike lust.

There will never be a good enough explanation why the mixed material bike like an Ottrott or Bedford (who built my Ottrott) rides so nice for some people. It's a good thing I didn't listen to the naysayers.

I own a Legend Ti .... How could anything be better?

I tested a CSi and an Ottrott for the sole purpose of just reinforcing my
specious opinion that these other bikes were just marketing ploys

Within nano seconds on each one .... boy did I ever have a revelation.

[Grant McLean]

wasn't the Trek 2200 a mixed carbon and aluminum frame back in the '90s?

BK

Maybe even earlier. Miyata had one in 1988 just like the Trek.

-g

[danl1]

Ohhh, my... Engaging bike lust, now.


I haven't quite been able to get myself there - not because I'm a doubter, but more because I like the more worry-free nature of an all-Ti bike. I baby my bikes anyway so it hardly matters, but we all need our rationalizations.

My 'nuf said' moment with mixed frames was a year or two ago, on Ben Serotta's blog. When he had a new personal bike built, it was an Ottrott. Obviously he could have done a Legend or a Mei Vici if one material was where it was at. I suppose there's a way for a cynical mind to bend the story line, but that says something to me.

And while I can't really make sense of it over either an all-carbon bike or one of the more 'normal' mixed bikes like the Ottrott , Seven's 622 sure is a looker.

I've a fantasy of a Ti-tubed bike with carbon lugs, a la Calfee. No reason other than to be different. I've seen it done with carbon wraps (Ruegamer), but not with the compression lugs.