Whats your opinion of Multi-Use Paths?

[yoshirider]

My bf rides with a group (10 people) during lunch on the weekdays and they ride on a busy multi-use path in Irvine, CA. He recently got into a crash during one of those rides because the group had to stop suddenly from some idiot in a beach cruiser turning left to exit the path and they couldn't all brake in time. Personally, I don't think groups should be riding on these paths but that's me. What do you think? Even after 2 crashes in a month he still insists on riding with them despite them still riding on that path. Ugh!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . at most when we go out on the MUT's here. I would never do a group ride there. Too dangerous. Too many pedestrians, skaters, dog walkers with those 20 foot leashes, etc., etc. There's too many who don't pay attention even though I call out while I'm still 50-75 feet behind them. I've come up behind skaters with buds before and ended up crawling along behind them, slowly upping the volume of my greetings just to see how long it takes before they wake up.

That being said, the pretty extensive trail here along the river is a godsend when I just need to go out and do a recovery ride slow or if I want to ride in the rain or after dark. Off the roads, no cars, and at night or in the rain it's usually deserted.

BBD

[67-59]

I won't tell others what they can do...but I almost never ride my road bike on the local multi-use paths. There are too many blind corners, too many joggers with headphones, too many dog walkers (with and without leashes), and too many once a year bike riders. About the only time I'll use them is if they're along a really busy stretch of road with no shoulders, and I can get a clear view of what's ahead of me on the path. Otherwise, I'll take my chances with the texting drivers and SUVs.

[bikerboy337]

MUTs shouldn't be used for fast rides, especially fast group rides...

I've seen way too many people, in full kits, trying to go 25mph on a path with walkers, dogs, kids on bikes, people on cruisers... thats just asking for trouble. Also, people need to "learn" the rules... or at least learn to read as when I run/bike with my kids on our local MUT, i'd say 50% of the people are on the wrong side, even though there are signs about every 1 mile saying what side peds should be on and what side bikes should be on...

anyways, i never ride fast on a MUT... unless its completely empty (I've ridden the cape cod rail trail, in the offseason, with no one on it, fast)... on a saturday/sunday or during lunch/after work, when the MUT is full of people... not for me unless I'm running or pulling my kids in teh trailer....

ATMO

[illdthedj]

i like MUPS mainly because oblivious jerks on cruisers and/or kids/dogs/etc tend to be less dangerous than the cars/traffic in my specific town.

Me and the wifey do laps on our 9 mile MUP loop all the time.

of course it is fraught with the usual human obstacle courses, some days better than others...we both find it incredibly necessary to have bells on our bikes. I ring my bell well far away from approaching human obstacles, and keep ringing all the way behind them.

however the two of us is much different than a group ride...how big of a group ride anyway? Also, as a mostly road cyclist i notice most other roadies despise/scoff at bells. however if these guys insist on riding on MUPs then i think they should all bite the bullet. Hearing 5 bells going off behind you would probably be more than enough warning for any potential unaware beach cruiser jerks.

FYI heres the roadiest road bell i could find for my litespeed. obviously a honky beach cruiser bell or an old timey silver one wont do:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQL47MmLeYdBEfq0yw-8ECyPGmLNpf7VLzeYD-SRQvWh8rcl4GZ

[bikerboy337]

Only problem I've had with bells, or yelling on your left... people, for some reason, tend to move the middle of the path, right in my line... then again, thats because around me, people are on the wrong side of the path and walking with the bikes... so they cant see me as I'm coming...

[oldman]

MUTs shouldn't be used for fast rides, especially fast group rides...

I've seen way too many people, in full kits, trying to go 25mph on a path with walkers, dogs, kids on bikes, people on cruisers... thats just asking for trouble. Also, people need to "learn" the rules... or at least learn to read as when I run/bike with my kids on our local MUT, i'd say 50% of the people are on the wrong side, even though there are signs about every 1 mile saying what side peds should be on and what side bikes should be on...

anyways, i never ride fast on a MUT... unless its completely empty (I've ridden the cape cod rail trail, in the offseason, with no one on it, fast)... on a saturday/sunday or during lunch/after work, when the MUT is full of people... not for me unless I'm running or pulling my kids in teh trailer....

ATMO

Exactly. Only use the MUP's for running and as a quick shortcut to other "roads". Way to many nice country roads to bother with the headaches of the MUP's. To many close calls and one scary head on crash with another cyclist.

[bikerboy337]

I had a fun run in last year, I was pushing my 6 month old in a jogging stroller, on the left side (where I'm supposed to be), and a guy in full on bag suit (those plastic sweat suits to lose weight), was coming the opposite direction in my lane... as we got closer, I could see he wasn't budging, so i moved into the other lane as we went by... he stopped, yelled at me for being in the wrong lane and called me a few names (as I'm pushing my baby)...

saw him on the way back and he apologized profusely as he was in the wrong... fun times on the MUT

[colod]

Love them, as long as nobody else is on them. But in real life they are worse than just about any road. Agree with you that a group ride has no place on them. There's a reason the speed limits are usually <15 mph - they are for things that are going slow, and the people on them are not wrong to be surprised (annoyed) if a pack of bikes (or even just one Jens Voight wannabe) comes flying through.

[shovelhd]

I commute on a MUP. I will run errands, ride to and from road rides, and do recovery rides on them. Otherwise I avoid them like the plague.

[illdthedj]

Only problem I've had with bells, or yelling on your left... people, for some reason, tend to move the middle of the path, right in my line... then again, thats because around me, people are on the wrong side of the path and walking with the bikes... so they cant see me as I'm coming...

unfortunately this happens quite allot too...saying "on your left" and bell ringing, some people are so oblivious they'll step over to the left, in the middle of the path.

basically my wife and I ride on our local MUP once a week, but usually very early in the morning so its very vacant.

That and during cold weather....nobody is out there save some random joggers and other cyclists who are much more predictable and adherent to basic MUP rules

[oliver1850]

My local one is 100+ miles long, so there's room to go as fast as you like. The main hinderances are broken glass (paved portions) and horse hoof prints (limestone portions). I don't evny anyone who wants to ride a road bike and whose only choices are city streets or crowded MUPs. I'm too old to risk fast group rides in those conditions.

[azrider]

I only ride my 29r on them and typically it's to get to and from trail head or canals. I've never ridden my road bike on them and like shovel said I ordinarily avoid them at all costs. I laugh when i see dudes in drops or worse.....on their TT bikes hauling balls. Stupid.

[illdthedj]

Love them, as long as nobody else is on them.

basically this. i love riding my MUP (very scenic) and have had no problems whatsoever, but thats because my wife and I know which timeframes to avoid the general MUP populous.

early mornings and any cold weather = awesome MUP riding
anytime after 10am, ok to nice weather, especially weekend = horrible MUP riding

[mosca]

Two crashes in a month? Another month or two of that and hopefully he'll move up to a higher class of group riders.

Seriously though, i ride those same Orange County MUTs with some frequency. They are decent for solo rides but a very poor choice for serious group riding imho. Avoid.

[donevwil]

Love them, as long as nobody else is on them. But in real life they are worse than just about any road. Agree with you that a group ride has no place on them. There's a reason the speed limits are usually <15 mph - they are for things that are going slow, and the people on them are not wrong to be surprised (annoyed) if a pack of bikes (or even just one Jens Voight wannabe) comes flying through.

Ditto.

"Couldn't stop in time" probably means they were travelling much faster than they should have. The fastest travellers (Cyclists) are always the ones who need to yield, whether it's for horses, peds or beach cruisers. I lived in Irvine for 6 years and know these trails well. Quickly learned to either avoid them or tone down the testoserone.

[oldman]

Old rant about MUP's. (http://dirkhayes.blogspot.com/2008/08/mups.html)

[nighthawk]

My MUP runs right behind my work, so is a nice alternative for my commute. Im able to go pretty fast... But I just slow down if I'm going to pass babies walking their moms, or oldies out for a cruise on their hybrids. The path itself is pretty bumpy and was literally paved with broken glass (some sort of recycling initiative that seems counter intuitive to me)... So I don't see too many roadies haulin a$$ on it. Don't think I've ever seen a group ride on it... Might just be my timing, and I'm never on it on weekends.

[bikingshearer]

I rarely ride with large groups, so that part of it isn't an issue for me.

Flat or somewhat uphill, I'm okay on most MUPs. If it's downhill, I'd rather be on the street/road where I can let it go a bit more. Having to keep braking on a stretch where gravity and my body are saying "go, dog, go" is too frustrating to be any fun.

[Ralph]

I think they are wonderful....for what they are designed to be and do. For the most part, ours are 14' wide same as a car lane, built like a road, and patrolled by folks in pickups. So they are smooth, wide, and nice. And very well maintained.
They get a lot of people out, off the couch, etc. Lots of folks commute on them, get to schools, use them for transportation, etc. One of the smarter things our Central Florida counties have done. I use them to get out to roads where riding is good. Just have to remember....they weren't built primarily for cyclists. But am thinking about getting my non riding wife an E Bike with limited speed. Many miles not much used with few cross roads.

[yoshirider]

i'm REALLY hoping one of the ppl in the group he rides with sees this thread and decide to change their route. what are the chances :(

[67-59]

i'm REALLY hoping one of the ppl in the group he rides with sees this thread and decide to change their route. what are the chances:(

[SLIM]...chances...[NONE]

[carpediemracing]

The speed limit on the MUP in the area (http://www.fvgreenway.org) is 10-12 mph, depending on the area. I think one area is 15 mph.

So what, right? Well the fine is astronomical if you exceed it and get caught (they patrol using ATVs infrequently). I recall reading $200 fine but can't find the article/whatever that said it, people reporting what they were fined. I don't know if it's associated with your driver's license etc, don't know that part.

At any rate I've only used it either in the off season or as shortcuts or to avoid traffic. I don't ride fast on training rides but that's still 15-17 mph.

I do plan on riding on it when Junior is old enough to do stuff on a bike. They way people run reds, stops, and tailgate around here I wouldn't want him to be on public roads for a bit.

[bozman]

they are a necessary evil unfortunately.

[victoryfactory]

unfortunately this happens quite allot too...saying "on your left" and bell ringing, some people are so oblivious they'll step over to the left, in the middle of the

In the '70s in Central Park we used to yell "Stay Straight" to avoid
that reaction. It worked.
As far as MUTs, Bikes are the fastest moving thing on that trail and as
such need to avoid terrorizing any slower moving traffic.
Same as what cyclists expect from cars on the road.
The kind of bike that the designers have in mind when they make an MUT
has fenders, basket and a kickstand and travels at 10 mph. Multi use
means standing and talking and letting kids run around too.

VF

[firerescuefin]

As far as MUTs, Bikes are the fastest moving thing on that trail and as
such need to avoid terrorizing any slower moving traffic.
Same as what cyclists expect from cars on the road.
The kind of bike that the designers have in mind when they make an MUT
has fenders, basket and a kickstand and travels at 10 mph. Multi use
means standing and talking and letting kids run around too.

VF

Well put

[gavingould]

chicago's lakefront path is nearly worthless if it's above 50*F, unless you want to do a lot of very short intervals and use your brakes a lot.

ok for slow base miles, but in the last week my 3 rides on it i've seen both riders and pedestrians down with first responders.

things i see that irk me to no end:
-large slow moving groups of people taking up an entire lane by walking 4 abreast
-children on leashes allowed to stray unpredictably on both sides and off both sides of trail at will
-children riding Powerwheels (and other similar little motorized vehicles) in a similar manner as above
-anyone and everyone (walkers, powerwalkers, speedwalkers, joggers, runners, triathletes, pathletes, cyclists, fixie kids, tourists, etc all passing slower traffic by utilizing the vast majority of the opposite lane with no consideration for the people in that lane
-people in all modes moving too fast for the amount of traffic
-people with headphones who are completely oblivious to all around them
-people who decide it's a good idea to swing out across the lane or into the other without so much as a glance
-people willfully using the wrong side of the path
-people using the centerline of the trail as their path...
etc
etc
etc

don't try to reason with them; it doesn't work and you'll only get more frustrated.

all users of the trail seem to openly despise all other users. cyclists hate the runners and rollerbladers, vice versa...






also get off my lawn!

reminds me i need to drum up some more routes if nothing else.

[thirdgenbird]

It is either that or 55mph highways without a shoulder here. And by no shoulder I mean less than 3 inches outside the white lines.

Fortunately the local trail is a little ways away from residential areas so during the week it's pretty open for a solo ride or group of two.

My biggest complaint is people who "park" their bikes on the trail. Right in the freaking middle of the trail. Next time I see it I'm stopping and removing the bikes without saying a word. Maybe they will get the point. If not, I will have at least helped the next cyclist.

[mbrtool]

I ride the Chicago River North Branch Trail for about five thousand miles a year. Yes, warm Sunday afternoons are busy; you just have to pick a better time to ride fast. It's still better than the lakefront or the streets. On my rides I see coyotes, foxes, deer, geese and birds that I don't see in the neighborhood.

[charliedid]

Vast left wing conspiracy.

[Tandem Rider]

There's a pretty good network here for the size of the population. Lots of commuters, good usage by the retired folks during the middle of the day, after dinner we get a stream of kids, dogs, bigwheels etc. I use it at the beginning and end of my rides and it forces me to ride slow and careful getting to and from the real ride. There is the occasional tryathlete attempting to hold 18 mph on his aero bars though, kind of a slow motion train wreck.

[victoryfactory]

The same kind of thing happens at public pools. The lap swimmers
always clash with the "splashers"..
"Multi Use" really means "We don't have enough space, resources and
ingenuity to provide dedicated areas for every use so we will do the best
we can"
It's our own fault if we misinterpret the concept to mean an area where
every use can be practiced fully and without interference.

VF

[robin3mj]

Yes for riding to/from work, No to pretty much anything else.

I use the lakefront in Chicago to get out of the city on my weekend rides. Always in the little ring, always careful.

The amount of idiots who use it for training, on weeknights at rush hour, is shocking. Too many other people using it (and doing stupid things themselves, like clueless with headphones, ten pound dog on twenty foot leash, etc) that there is no margin for error.

[Ahneida Ride]

Stay off the lakefront one in Chicago .....

It's packed with nuts.

[oldpotatoe]

Lotz around the republic, I use them all the time but only cuz most roads in the 'city' don't have a shoulder or bike lanes, yes, matilda, even in Boulder).

After the ride, time to get to the shop, can't really trundle down Pearl St going west(well you can but it's dum), so i get on the path..works.

BUT only by myself, not with a big group, cuz they can get crowded.

[jvp]

New Neuse river greenway here in wake and johnston counties, nc is nice. ~32 miles about half rural. I've ridden it solo and with 1 or 2 others, I wouldn't want to exceed that. You can zip along most of it, but when you get within 1 or 2 miles of access points there are often walkers and rec. bikers to slow down for. New loop from my house>greenway>downtown>back to my house = 40 miles, almost half on the greenway.

[jr59]

I am blessed to have one that runs along the Missippi river one block from my house. app. 50 miles one way with another 100 miles being built as I post this.
There are plenty of miles where I rarely see anyone, except another cyclist. But there are also places where I have to go 10 miles per or less. It's just the way it is. I need to share it.

The trouble always arises when a group thinks they own the MUP. Be it runners, walkers, or bike riders. It's a Multi Use Path people! That means we have to share it!

It's not a race track, for time trails, or fast group rides. Just as it's not for group walks, or group runs, no matter what the cause. It's to share. That means with the moms with babies in strolers, people walking their dog, kids just learning to ride, rollerbladers, and a host of others. I don't get why we as a cycling group think we own the MUP and get upset when some of us crash by thinking that way.

[gavingould]

^ this is exactly it. each group thinks they own the path and will not yield or even respect other users...

[charlie68]

I try to avoid MUPs because if the congestion and distracted users. The only serious crash I've had while riding my bike happened on a MUP because some walkers would not share the trail and basically forced me off the trail. The ones I used to ride were in the DC area and when you get near Georgetown and the Lincoln Memorial, the trails are really crowded with a lot of tourists that have know idea about trail etiquette. I'll take my chances on the roads in rural Montgomery County.

[Gummee]

I live in the land of the ultimate set of trails: the Washington and Old Dominion rail system. Its a doGsend for getting from point A to point B without having to deal with cars.

...however...

Like lots of other people have said, there's lots of room for conflict as you mix speeds, abilities, and expectations.

If you don't plan on going quickly, they're fantastic. The minute you decide you 'need to get somewhere,' they become more dangerous than the roads you're trying to avoid.

Luckily, I live far enough out that I don't have to ride a MUT. If I *do* end up on a MUT, its toodle time. I get there when I get there.

M