Racism in American Cycling

[beeatnik]

Golf, yes. Hockey, more than likely (and for obvious structural reasons). But never really thought about racism (institutional or otherwise) in cycling. This piece written by friend and attorney, Seth Davidson got me thinking

http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/usa-cyclings-black-eye/

[malcolm]

Racism is everywhere just like stupidity. I'm in my early 50s and lived most of my life in the southeast and trust me we have made some huge strides. I say this while having just read in my neighboring state of Georgia a small high school is having it's first ever combined black/white prom. They have been separate events until this year and it wasn't institutional change it was the students that did it on their own.

Today's racism is more subtle and possibly even worse is some respects. It's the racism of indifference. Hopefully our children will do better.

The article probably contains many truths but it written in a manner I find antagonistic and that often taints valid points.

I'll say this most cyclist I've known over the years seem to be some of the more accepting people in our society. I can't speak for the organizations and more elite aspects of the sport, but the everyday guy on a bike, to paint with a broad brush seems to be of the more open minded set.

[bluesea]

I feel fortunate living in a State where I am not a racial minority. :banana:

[redir]

I don't think I would consider USA Cycling to be racist because they don't reach out to Bahati. :rolleyes:

I guess if you are a large organization today you need to have programs in the black community or you will be labeled a racist.

FWIW there may or may not be some truth to it but it's a pretty weak article.

[rnhood]

In fact its a very weak article. The author strikes me as the type person who is interested in purveying racism when it really isn't there to any extent. Its what gives the term racism a bad name.

[CunegoFan]

I'm sorry to clue the author in on this and rain on him reliving the 1960's fight against The Man, but USA Cycling does not do squat to develop grass roots racing of white folks either.

As for Bahati, he is sort of the Abdoujaparov of American sprinting...

[beeatnik]

"Whites" are a plurality in CA which is predicted to be coming to an end in 2014.

Great post, Malcolm. Racism in CA is a strange beast. A black or Asian person can probably go decades without experiencing any overt racism if their socio-economic status insulates them from daily interaction with less sophisticated communities. While growing up, I was called the N word on what seemed like a weekly basis. In any case, at some point in life I began to disassociate racism with exclusion and yet when I'm on a ride and I notice every black guy (because out of 100 riders at most 2 are black), there's probably some cognitive dissonance going on.

I'm a Latino, btw.

[Gummee]

I'm not so sure its racism as much as it is an expensive sport. An odd-ball, painful, time-consuming odd-ball sport.

M

[gdw]

I didn't know Al Sharpton was a cyclist.

Bike racing isn't a sport for the masses- black, white, red, etc - because it's expensive and there is no racing scene in most of the country.

[beeatnik]

I didn't know Al Sharpton was a cyclist.



What the hell does that mean?

[chengher87]

This "issue" is honestly more cultural than racial. Being Asian and having been raised by Asian parents, they did a whole more to shape my not cycling than a lack of support from USA cycling.

Although their genetics really didn't help me either......:(

[gdw]

It means the writer is more interested in riling up his readers -RACISM in American cycling!- than backing his point with facts.

[Aaron O]

I'm not sure if there is a valid point here or not, but the article didn't site enough current evidence to support its argument. It seemed like a generalized rant.

[LegendRider]

Regarding the Bahati incident at the Dana Point race, did USA Cycling ever explain why the rider who hooked him wasn't sanctioned?

[beeatnik]

I think his point is that every legitimate, major professional league or governing body seems to have outreach programs because, duh, black athletes tend to succeed in major pro sports. Whether it's due to self-interest, profit or moral obligation, the NFL, NBA, MLB, U.S. Soccer, USGA/PGA (probably even NASCAR) all have outreach or inner city programs. Interpret USA Cycling's indifference as you will...

[redir]

Interpret USA Cycling's indifference as you will...

And that is the problem with that article it is interpretation at will with out any real facts.

[ultraman6970]

The culture made everybody equal. thats good but at some point in the US it created a problem IMO because created a distance between people...

Too long to explain but probably only the foreings understand what i want say...

ps: anybody notice that the redskins now will change the name because redskin is derogative after like zillions of years?? this illustrates my point somehow, stuff is turning ridiculous now.

[chengher87]

I still think his rant is a little off-base. Whether or not USA cycling promotes inner city cycling, there are many other entities that do. Inner city kids get their bikes, but they don't do so with the intention of cycling professionally. They often use it as a mode of transportation or exercise, that's it, like all other people.

Seriously, there are so many other programs that are helping children in impoverished communities. The author chooses cycling of all things to criticize? First world problems (for him to complain about the lack of USA Cycling support, seriously, places that gave me safety from rough gangs and a good education were far more valuable to me). Racism is a two way street. Vigilantes who believe it there duty to defend every small slight make it worse.

He got undercut because he was trying to hog the position at the back of another team's leadout train and the other team's sprinter got pissed off. That's it, that's cycling. I remember two leadout trains jockeying for position and headbutts were thrown.

[beeatnik]

So, it's a blog and not scholarly writing..

And another, IMO, valid point which is obvious to most is that kids will ride bikes. Kinda like basketball where you can just walk to your local court, you don't need other participants to enjoy riding a bike. You just need a bike. Most kids, poor, minority or otherwise, will own a bike at some point in their childhood. Why wouldn't a governing body, whose charter is to grow the sport, be interested in this potentially huge talent pool? Again, IMO, it's more of a challenge, financial and otherwise, to promote inner city baseball leagues or to get inner city kids to the one or two golf courses in urban centers. And, yet, MLB is willing to go out to the DR and the PGA/USGA spends tens of millions of dollars introducing golf to underrepresented communities. I used to see more black golfers on the course than I see black racers on the road.

[cmg]

USA cycling has barely enough to keep itself afloat let alone provide inner city development. The fixie/single speed movement has had a bigger impact on getting kids on bikes than anything USA cycling could do. fixies/singles are alot cheaper than the majority of road bikes.

[gdw]

The sports organizations you keep citing represent MAJOR sports, bicycle racing is not a MAJOR sport in this country. Major sports bring in lots of money....bike racing does not. The majors can afford outreach programs, fringe sports like cycling can't.

[earlfoss]

Bahati races like an a@@hole and yes has caused his own fair share of crashes. He was not entirely innocent in that incident. That he is black I sincerely doubt has ANYTHING to do with it.

This dude wrote a weak article looking for attention or controversy.

[redir]

You know when I think about it I got into cycling when I lived in a pretty crappy neighborhood in Danbury Ct. The reason why I got into it was because of the annual Danbury criterium. It was a free sporting event to just go hang out and watch the races all day. So that's some real reach out to communities. Who can afford a ticket to go see a football game or basket ball? Not the poor people in my neighborhood. They can watch it on tv though. Where can you watch a bike race on tv?

[e-RICHIE]

You don't see the diversity in bicycle racing that is in other sports because it's not played in schools and no scholarships (to speak of) exist. The sport generally is the domain of folks who take it up, and continue with it, once their campus years are behind them. The amount of racers who began cycling as youngster and continued on through adulthood is very small atmo.

I saw the text when it came out a week (or longer) ago. I agree with Malcolm above. There are some valid points, but there's also a bit of an attitude thing coming through from the writer.

I've been in the sport since - well, since a very long time. And I have never witnessed anything remotely resembling racism, bias, or similar against any group. As a counterpoint, I have read more comments here hurled at roadies than I have ever heard from roadies at a race hurled at anyone, much less at folks on message boards.

[Tony T]

Marshall Walter "Major" Taylor (26 November 1878 – 21 June 1932) was an American cyclist who won the world 1 mile (1.6 km) track cycling championship in 1899

Not a typo. 1899. Article your friend wrote is about racism in Cycling in America 100 years ago. The author fails to mention this.

"Article" says he died a pauper. The author implies that this was due to racism in cycling. However, Taylor was reported to have earned between $25,000 and $30,000 a year when he returned to Worcester at the end of his career. In 1900 dollars, that's a lot of cash. So what caused him to die a pauper?:

"...by the time of his death he had lost everything to bad investments (including self-publishing his autobiography), persistent illness, and the stock market crash. His marriage over, he died at age 53 on June 21, 1932—a pauper in Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood, in the charity ward of Cook County Hospital—to be buried in an unmarked grave. He was survived by his daughter"

Poor "reporting" by your friend, the lawyer.

[beeatnik]

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/major-taylor-handlebar

[ultraman6970]

Even juan carlos perez in his books mentions taylor.

[krhea]

Warning, warning, Black guys opinion coming...

The writer, no matter whether a good guy, a lawyer or what was unfortunately misinformed, off-base and a bit to angry in my opinion.

First off, USA Cycling is in shambles no matter the group or the "color" of their jerseys. If you know cycling or I should say racing in the US then you lost respect for USA Cycling a long time ago and not because, as the author states, "they're racist". I don't believe they're racist in the least, I think they're selfish, stupid, unprofessional and really do not have the best interest of the MAJORITY of bike racers in mind when making decisions.

And as someone else stated, please don't say bike racing in the same sentence as Nascar, NBA, NFL, MLB etc. Get it in your head, we ride bicycles, bicycles in the US are "toys" to most folk, we do not live in Europe where cycling IS Nascar. Good freakin' grief, a country as large as ours with as many riders and racers and we have two "real" Pro races, Amgen and Colorado and every year we all hold our breathe hoping and praying they're gonna happen. We're a tiny sub-culture sport who relies on our own interest to keep things going. If you have a local group that provides racing opportunities you should support them by not just racing but volunteering as well.

Back to the article...The author makes his case in what I'll call, "typical, brash, angry, frustrated, ill-informed, angry black man" style. It's to bad because the guy does have something to say that could be useful but he goes about it in the wrong manner. To be heard and I mean really heard on the subject in 2013 one has to be a bit more open minded about the challenges from both sides and he's not. In his world USAC sucks and may as well wear hoods instead of helmets when riding and that's a shortsighted view.

Because someone posted the following statement, "I've been in the sport since - well, since a very long time. And I have never witnessed anything remotely resembling racism, bias, or similar against any group." I have to say, good for you in your protected little community of where ever you live but please, don't even start to make such statements because you're fortunate enough to live there and your day to day life probably does not intersect many folks of other races and especially blacks. In situations such as these regarding topics such as this, the "walk a mile in my shoes" adage really comes into play.

I'm from the midwest, Ohio. In 1975 I was a top ranked junior tennis player. Throughout 4yrs of high school tennis "I" was the only black person I'd see on the courts. During that year I was turned away from two clubs where my high school team had scheduled matches because no blacks were allowed. To my coaches credit he forfeited both matches. Certainly not my first taste of "real" racism but perhaps the most blatant at the time.
I've also been in the cycling "game" for a long time, first century in 1972, first ABLA race in 1974, rode in the Olympic "wheel car" with Eddie B during the '80 trials, tasted the Major Taylor Velodrome as a youngster, raced for years during the USCF period, worked in the industry, worked cycling events/promotion, worked in shop(s), member of various cycling clubs around the US, lived from Ohio to Michigan to Portland to Boston to Boulder and back to Portland, have ridden all over the USA, Canada and Europe, and am currently the president/director of Portland Velo Cycling Club, one of the largest(500 members) and the most active clubs in the Portland, a metro area of 1 million plus and a black population of about 6%.

With that said, if I looked for and expected racism in cycling trust me, I could find it because it's here. It's in all aspects of cycling, touring, events, the industry, shops and racing, however, cycling is no different then any other other aspect of our lives so of course, racism exists and to say it doesn't isn't true. Without looking for it, it's smacked me in the face a number of times in just about every situation. A non-minority wouldn't and shouldn't notice it so to say you're never "witnessed" it is not surprising and really carries no weight whatsoever. I've never witnessed a bad weld on a frame I was building either, but then again, I've never held a torch to a frame.
Has anyone ever been "questioned" by security at Interbike? Every year at Interbike, after talking to folks on the phone and through email I receive "that look" when I walk up to their booth to say hi or for a meeting. 99% of those reading this have never got "the look" but to the 1% who have, you know exactly what I mean. Experience it once and you never forget it. Never experience it and you have no idea what I'm talking about. Have you ever ridden across the bridge from the US to Canada with 3 other riders and you were the only one stopped? Have you ever chatted on the phone with someone, built a business relationship around cycling THEN have the opportunity to meet then for dinner and realize you weren't what they were "expecting"? Ever communicate with a race team or club in a city you plan to visit or move to, get some great info, get excited get invited then go there and hear, "you're the KRhea I've been emailing????". Ever been asked, "Are you sure you can afford that" in a bike shop? Ever been warned, "KRhea, it might not be a good idea if you ride through that area alone" when planning a weekend solo trip.
Yes, this and more has happened to me and even though it's horrible to say, that is life at times when you wear my/our skin. One thing I feel folks forget is, I'm black every day, every minute and hour of every day. I don't "take it off" and get a break. My dad in the '40s, based in Mississippi in the Army couldn't take it off and drink from any fountain he wanted to. My young daughter is Chinese, she can't "take that off" and will most certainly at some point in her life encounter racism for no other reason then the way she looks. These are not "woe is me" statements but rather statements of fact. Each time someone says to a minority or a women, "Ah c'mon, how hard can it really be, you're just sensitive perhaps", they forget that with just a quick glance in our direction an opinion can be formed from a previous encounter with someone who looked like you. Same on bikes, the idiots who ride in the middle of the road, wrong way on one way streets, racers who ride 3 and 4 abreast on country roads, guess what, when you're out there along following all the right laws and a motorist buzzes you or hollers something at you it's probably not because of how you are riding or what you look like, it's because you're on a bike and their last encounter with someone on a bike was bad so they immediately take it out on you. Happens in the world of racism all the time.

I don't cry about it, complain about it, hate about it, protect my daughter from it or anything else. I still learn from it and hopefully become a better person because of it. To me it's pure ignorance on their part and I let it slide. Like the small number of blacks in Portland, thank god there's a small number of ignorant people in the world.

My only advise to the blogger is, bring back your attitude a bit, realize that yes, there is racism but at the same time, being a jerk will not change things. It's OK to have a strong opinion but if you want to affect change, if you want the "right" people to listen and hear you, sometimes you have to take an intelligent middle ground. Be "intelligently angry" yet intelligent enough to see both sides. Don't spit crap you don't know about and have your facts right as it's easy to dismiss an angry person spitting woefully wrong information.

I love cycling, my life has pretty much in one way or another revolved around it since the early '70s. To coin a phrase that usually refers to another group of people, "some of my best friends are cyclists". I'm not angry, disappointed in cycling or my fellow cyclists. I'm lucky we have a state wide cycling group called OBRA that takes great care of racers from all works of life include young kids including young black, latino and low income kids of every variety. Cycling is a culture, every culture has challenges and one of those age old challenges is racism. Get used to it? Well, you'd think that after 55yrs I could but I can't, I choose not to dwell on it and to treat everyone including cyclists, the way I expect and feel I deserve to be treated in hopes that sends a little message that hey, he's not a black guy or a black cyclist, he's just a guy who happens to enjoy riding a bike.

[Pete Mckeon]

In all my years of cycling and knowing cyclist both pro and recreational.

that has been since the 70s (so over 40 years). :confused:
You don't see the diversity in bicycle racing that is in other sports because it's not played in schools and no scholarships (to speak of) exist. The sport generally is the domain of folks who take it up, and continue with it, once their campus years are behind them. The amount of racers who began cycling as youngster and continued on through adulthood is very small atmo.

I saw the text when it came out a week (or longer) ago. I agree with Malcolm above. There are some valid points, but there's also a bit of an attitude thing coming through from the writer.

I've been in the sport since - well, since a very long time. And I have never witnessed anything remotely resembling racism, bias, or similar against any group. As a counterpoint, I have read more comments here hurled at roadies than I have ever heard from roadies at a race hurled at anyone, much less at folks on message boards.

[beeatnik]

Has anyone ever been "questioned" by security at Interbike? Every year at Interbike, after talking to folks on the phone and through email I receive "that look" when I walk up to their booth to say hi or for a meeting. 99% of those reading this have never got "the look" but to the 1% who have, you know exactly what I mean. Experience it once and you never forget it. Never experience it and you have no idea what I'm talking about. Have you ever ridden across the bridge from the US to Canada with 3 other riders and you were the only one stopped? Have you ever chatted on the phone with someone, built a business relationship around cycling THEN have the opportunity to meet then for dinner and realize you weren't what they were "expecting"? Ever communicate with a race team or club in a city you plan to visit or move to, get some great info, get excited get invited then go there and hear, "you're the KRhea I've been emailing????". Ever been asked, "Are you sure you can afford that" in a bike shop? Ever been warned, "KRhea, it might not be a good idea if you ride through that area alone" when planning a weekend solo trip.


I don't cry about it, complain about it, hate about it, protect my daughter from it or anything else. I still learn from it and hopefully become a better person because of it. To me it's pure ignorance on their part and I let it slide. Like the small number of blacks in Portland, thank god there's a small number of ignorant people in the world.



Thanks for your thoughtful response. It is thorough, nuanced, sincere and, for me as a person of color, ultimately, troubling. It may be, as they say, a generational thing.

[firerescuefin]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. It is thorough, nuanced, sincere

Agreed....thanks Kevin.

[MattTuck]

Warning, warning, Black guys opinion coming...



Kevin,

I read your whole post. Like all of your posts and private messages you've sent me, it is sincere and insightful. I can never walk in your shoes, and I have no doubt how crappy it feels to be in those situations, I can atleast empathize. If we ever meet in person, the only 'look' you'll receive is a look of jealousy for your bike collection and bike room.


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8505/8567696535_d2047fa06d.jpg
Graphic from Magnificent Octopus (http://cargocollective.com/magnificentoctopus)

[e-RICHIE]

I have read the posts since my first one several hours ago and think there is a bit of drift going on. This thread is about the text linked in the OP, no? I don't think there's racism in the sport of cycling. If someone is a racist, and somehow finds his sorry self in the racing community we are discussing, and acts like some miscreant or holier-than-thou white (as an example) person, that's him being a racist not the sport. I'd be the first guy lined up to defend against this behavior. But I just can't get the connection here that the sport has characteristics that in any way align with those of a rank and file racist. The blog was an entertaining read and the blogger must be thrilled with the visits. But the concept he's spinning doesn't seem to have anything with the sport I know. PS I sponsored Nellie's first team and made his bicycles right up until Raleigh dove in and decided to buy up a little team in advance of the L.A. Olympics. When I knew him intimately he was still using his African name, not Nelson.

[wallymann]

this is amusing. mad respect for what you've done and continue to do for the sport, but you strike me as just about the whitest dude on the planet. amusing indeed.

fwiw my club is composed of predominately people of color, from white to black and everything in between. we've definitely encountered racism thru the years, but cycling is alot better than many other sports in this regard.

...I've been in the sport since - well, since a very long time. And I have never witnessed anything remotely resembling racism, bias, or similar against any group...

[beeatnik]

ATMO, "jasonfromtheinternet" (or Alabama, actually), who comments on Seth's blog agrees with you but comes to different conclusions:

So, again, whether it’s intentional or unintentional, this just can’t be ok. The socioeconomic issues aside — and, hey, they applied to me too: I didn’t start bike racing until I graduated law school and took a job at a corporate law firm, mostly because I couldn’t afford to race, my parents couldn’t afford to “sponsor me”, and nobody in my hick town gave a rat’s ass about bike racing, anyway — no organization that even pretends* to represent a national competitive body could be content with the sport’s current demographic makeup without being (a) corrupt, (b) lazy, or (c) actively evil. Or maybe all 3.

[e-RICHIE]

this is amusing. mad respect for what you've done and continue to do for the sport, but you strike me as just about the whitest dude on the planet. amusing indeed.

fwiw my club is composed of predominately people of color, from white to black and everything in between. we've definitely encountered racism thru the years, but cycling is alot better than many other sports in this regard.

There's no real need to characterize me, and it's probably not helpful to the discussion. I'll ask this as best I can given the medium - you write that cycling is a lot better than many other sports, and you precede that with that you encountered racism through the years. My question is about the sport (that's what the link is tied to) not the activity, or the past time. What activity can you articulate that has to do with the sport or an event or a fellow license holder? PS my clubs have always been multicultural and have had riders of all colors and backgrounds.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and speaks well of what this place is all about. Let's keep it that way. Let's keep it interesting civil, and on topic please.

Thanks.

BBD

[slidey]

I'd say there is a lot of BS in it. Blog or scientific journal, there has to be some amount of common sense and/or accountability while making claims like this:
The history of most major American sports goes like this: White people create the sport and set up the rules so that black people can’t play.

And the entire section about Bahati with a case being built around the crash at Dana Point in 2010. I did see the video of the crash as well, and found no evidence of the so-called proof. So that eliminates the entire section, and the ending message of freeing Bahati.

I'm all for equality, but not having been subjected or witnessed this in my immediate surroundings I'm not interested in extrapolating about trends of racism in the sport. But to end the article with the victimisation of Bahati is desperately laughable. He's african-american, and he's or used to be a decent Cat 1 racer...and that is all. There are quite a few Cat 1's I know who've had poor luck at races, etc but everyone I know talks about the present, the future training plans, strategy, diet, FTP, tabata intervals, etc and not fixate about a crash that took place 3 years back! "Free Bahati" indeed...complete, and utter drivel.

FYI: I'm Asian, so yeah not coming from a white high-horse.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Bahati was criticized at the time of the crash for being a reckless rider and elbowing his way into lines he didn't belong in--which the video does not depict. Not to excuse Keough's actions, but Bahati's actions prior to the crash were well known, too.

Charon Smith and the Williams brothers get a ton of respect as riders in So Cal as they are truly great talents. Nobody denies them this. Just look at this past weekend's results. They are awesome riders. As was Fast Freddy Rodriguez in the 1980's, when he was just a 13-year old punk Latino kid taking on men at El Dorado Park and OBRA races in So Cal (back when OBRA was a So Cal bicycle racing organization, rather than one from Oregon).

Nelson Vails was a limited rider (even as a track sprinter) in the 1980's and, in the end, did not gold medal, unlike Gorski and Hegg. So it is only natural that Nelson's business success was more limited than either Gorski or Hegg, which really wasn't all that great anyway for a pair of white dudes. Hegg continued to have success after the 84 Olympics on the road, but Nelson did not. Nelson simply couldn't make it over with the first group even during the Como Street ride after the first climb, which really isn't much of a climb. Had Nelson eclipsed both Gorski and Hegg in athletic success and results, I imagine his commercial success would have been greater.

A couple of years ago a pro racer by the name of Jorge Alvarado (riding for the Bahati Foundation, coincidentally) was killed as he was riding his bike up Big Bear by a pair of white, high school punk kids drag racing up the same road. Though the criminal justice system dealt with the miscreants with a slap on the wrist (I believe one month jail time is the worst one of them received), the local racing community continues to honor Jorge Alvarado's memory by naming the omnium at the Tour de Murrieta after him--our LBS does a ride up the same road where Jorge was killed every November in his memory. Jorge's picture comes up at the end of that video in the OP.

Really bad anecdotal analogies for Davidson to use to attempt to prove his charge of racism. Racers were and are an elitist, maladjusted lot as a whole. Race, however, does not play much of a role in their dysfunction, IMO.

FYI, I'm Latino.

[Gummee]

I still think his rant is a little off-base. Whether or not USA cycling promotes inner city cycling, there are many other entities that do. Inner city kids get their bikes, but they don't do so with the intention of cycling professionally. They often use it as a mode of transportation or exercise, that's it, like all other people.

Seriously, there are so many other programs that are helping children in impoverished communities. The author chooses cycling of all things to criticize? First world problems (for him to complain about the lack of USA Cycling support, seriously, places that gave me safety from rough gangs and a good education were far more valuable to me). Racism is a two way street. Vigilantes who believe it there duty to defend every small slight make it worse. I know the Sandy Eggo velodrome has a kids program that's attracted more than a few inner city kids, but in Sandy Eggo that typically means hispanics.

...USAC is nowhere to be found. Should the hispanic community be up in arms too?

IMO while it'd be nice that USAC did more in a grass roots kind of way, in the 20 years I've been riding and racing, I've never seen it. In fact, I'm not quite sure what they really do.

I grew up playing soccer. Not too many african americans in my soccer league either. Does that mean there's racism in soccer? ...or is it just that some people would rather do other things with their time?

M

[shovelhd]

USAC's primary development mission is a reflection of the UCI. Find the best and brightest young cyclists with the greatest potential on the world stage, that have Daddies and Mommies with tons of bucks to support Junior's dreams, and provide them the avenue to achieve them. USAC, and previously, the USCF, has never been, and never will be, about grassroots cycling, for anyone. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Bhuddist, whatever.

In all my years of racing, I have never once heard a racist comment, slur, or even a bad joke. I have heard more than my share at my kid's youth sports games. As a white kid on an AAU basketball team, I watched my kid be discriminated against and get racist slurs thrown at them, so I know what this means.

Racism exists in society, and that sucks, but there is nothing about cycling that encourages, promotes, or develops racism within the sport itself. I cannot say that about other sports.

[e-RICHIE]

USAC's primary development mission is a reflection of the UCI. Find the best and brightest young cyclists with the greatest potential on the world stage, that have Daddies and Mommies with tons of bucks to support Junior's dreams, and provide them the avenue to achieve them. USAC, and previously, the USCF, has never been, and never will be, about grassroots cycling, for anyone. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Bhuddist, whatever.

In all my years of racing, I have never once heard a racist comment, slur, or even a bad joke. I have heard more than my share at my kid's youth sports games. As a white kid on an AAU basketball team, I watched my kid be discriminated against and get racist slurs thrown at them, so I know what this means.

Racism exists in society, and that sucks, but there is nothing about cycling that encourages, promotes, or develops racism within the sport itself. I cannot say that about other sports.


Re development, I think the USAC's ties are to the USOC more so, if at all, than to the UCI. That said, until bicycle racing is a high school sport, or seen as a team sport (and all that it entails) it won't attract a wider, more ethnically diverse, colorful demographic. Or - perhaps I should say, it won't attract a demographic that pleases the writer who peppers his tome with words like USA Cycling hates black people.

[vav]

said.

USAC's primary development mission is a reflection of the UCI. Find the best and brightest young cyclists with the greatest potential on the world stage, that have Daddies and Mommies with tons of bucks to support Junior's dreams, and provide them the avenue to achieve them. USAC, and previously, the USCF, has never been, and never will be, about grassroots cycling, for anyone. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic, Bhuddist, whatever.

In all my years of racing, I have never once heard a racist comment, slur, or even a bad joke. I have heard more than my share at my kid's youth sports games. As a white kid on an AAU basketball team, I watched my kid be discriminated against and get racist slurs thrown at them, so I know what this means.

Racism exists in society, and that sucks, but there is nothing about cycling that encourages, promotes, or develops racism within the sport itself. I cannot say that about other sports.

[chengher87]

Re development, I think the USAC's ties are to the USOC more so, if at all, than to the UCI. That said, until bicycle racing is a high school sport, or seen as a team sport (and all that it entails) it won't attract a wider, more ethnically diverse, colorful demographic. Or - perhaps I should say, it won't attract a demographic that pleases the writer who peppers his tome with words like USA Cycling hates black people.

Haha, pulling a Kanye West?

[shovelhd]

Re development, I think the USAC's ties are to the USOC more so, if at all, than to the UCI.

Conceptually, I agree, but at the world level with the UCI, OIC, CAS, it all gets smeared. My point was that USAC is the American governing arm of the UCI and reflects their mission and only their mission. They have no mission of their own, such as developing African American cyclists as a separate group.

[e-RICHIE]

Conceptually, I agree, but at the world level with the UCI, OIC, CAS, it all gets smeared. My point was that USAC is the American governing arm of the UCI and reflects their mission and only their mission. They have no mission of their own, such as developing African American cyclists as a separate group.

I think the sports governing bodies here in the states are stepchildren of the USOC, or at least the sports with Olympic ties. All of them are also subsets of their own discipline's orgs at a higher level (UCI, etc...). As this diversity issue goes, the folks in Switzerland embraced MTB and, more recently, BMX as ways to cast the bicycle racing net out. I am no UCI apologist, but it probably wasn't a bad idea to do this. The folks in charge at any given time may have their own agendas in the way, but through the liaisons, it allowed for two new cycling events at the Olympics. Anyway, I don't want to talk sports politics. My POVs on the linked text are already posted above. Thanks.

[shovelhd]

It's all good, e-Richie.

[merlincustom1]

ps: anybody notice that the redskins now will change the name because redskin is derogative after like zillions of years?? this illustrates my point somehow, stuff is turning ridiculous now.

The name is indeed racist. It's as racist as the Washington Honkies would be. But it's ingrained, institutionalized, taken for granted racism, which in the eyes of many isn't racism at all. It's just the norm. WASPs slaughtered the indigenous population of this country, imported slaves to build it, now reap the benefits, and want to close it off to others. Might makes right.

[gdw]

WASPs slaughtered the indigenous population of this country, imported slaves to build it, now reap the benefits, and want to close it off to others."

Ugly and unneccesary thread drift.

[SamIAm]

wasps slaughtered the indigenous population of this country, imported slaves to build it, now reap the benefits, and want to close it off to others."

ugly and unneccesary thread drift.

+1000

[mike p]

Give me a break!

Mike

QUOTE=merlincustom1;1341992]The name is indeed racist. It's as racist as the Washington Honkies would be. But it's ingrained, institutionalized, taken for granted racism, which in the eyes of many isn't racism at all. It's just the norm. WASPs slaughtered the indigenous population of this country, imported slaves to build it, now reap the benefits, and want to close it off to others. Might makes right.[/QUOTE]

[PQJ]

Give me a break!

Mike




Or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang)

[Formulasaab]

Not knowing the author at all, and not knowing the reputation of the blog, my impression was that it fell into that category of modern "reporting" that is simply not worthy of consideration. It takes a point of view, throws as much emotion at it as possible, and depends on the use of sensationalism to draw an audience. There's little substantial in the article and it isn't written in a fashion that gives a critical reader any facts to chew on. I give the opinions written in this forum more weight.

Except for the comment:
Nelson Vails was a limited rider

To call any Olympian (silver medal) + multi-time National sprint Champion (once individual and 3 time tandem) + Pan Am Gold Medal winner + US Bicycling Hall of Fame inductee "limited" is to have an unreasonably limited (see what I did there) definition of cycling talent and success. :no:

I made my first visit to a velodrome last year. It was the Madison Cup at Trexlertown. While Bobby Lea was the big star of the night, having just returned from the Olympics (12th in the Omnium) and clearly being on the best form of anyone... Giddeon Massie was on the cover of the program. I'm just sayin'.

[malcolm]

WASPs slaughtered the indigenous population of this country, imported slaves to build it, now reap the benefits, and want to close it off to others."

Ugly and unneccesary thread drift.

This is true but it's also an easy and sensationalistic statement. Most every nation on this planet has had it's share of subjugated peoples. Our genocide of indigenous peoples was in fact heinous and denied to this day, but far greater genocides have been committed and are being committed on other continents as I write this. The degree shouldn't matter as it shouldn't happen anywhere, but this isn't unique to the US. The only thing unique about us is our geographic isolation which leads to tendencies toward isolationism.

As a people we need to be aware of our history, apologize for misdeeds of the past and vow to never repeat them, but looking at history with modern perspective is always misleading and almost never beneficial. You have to have perspective to view history.

The above statement while true it may be contributes nothing and is only inflammatory.

I also don't get the labels. It wasn't WASPS it was human beings that happened to be WASPS. That particular moniker, I don't think conveys any special degree of evilness. I suspect it exists across all groups.

[akelman]

I've got very little interest in having this discussion here, but it seems worth* noting that: A) There was really only one place, California, and one time, approximately 1855-1870, when the the brutal mistreatment of this country's indigenous peoples could be called genocide. B) The people who conquered this nation weren't all WASPs.

* For some very weird value of "worth."

[firerescuefin]

I've got not interest in having this discussion here, but it seems worth* noting that: A) There was really only one place, California, and one time, approximately 1855-1870, when the the brutal mistreatment of this country's indigenous peoples could be called genocide. B) The people who conquered this nation weren't all WASPs.

* For some very weird value of "worth."

What are you...a history professor?

[akelman]

What are you...a history professor?

Just an idiot on the internet.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Except for the comment:


To call any Olympian (silver medal) + multi-time National sprint Champion (once individual and 3 time tandem) + Pan Am Gold Medal winner + US Bicycling Hall of Fame inductee "limited" is to have an unreasonably limited (see what I did there) definition of cycling talent and success. :no:



We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. While no doubt any Olympic medal requires great athletic talent, Nelson got a silver medal, not a gold. I don't know many athletes who were able to parlay a silver medal to greater success than a gold medal winner. Nor do I know any silver medalist who was publicized or promoted above a gold medal winner. And as I mentioned, it's not like Gorski and Hegg were rolling in the dough anyway. Nelson did get that role in that stupid Kevin Bacon bike messenger movie, though.

And Nelson was limited in the sense that he could not translate any of his success on the track to the road, like many other riders I knew who started on the track. He couldn't even hang on a local training ride. So, yes, in my view, limited.

[e-RICHIE]

Re the remuneration and endorsement deals from that era - track cycling was never a place any 'real' money was made in that era. And, let's not forget that the boycott kept the best racing cyclists away from Los Angeles in 1984. And, on the track, the strength events were still being won by Eastern Europeans with some regularity anyway. A medal is a medal, but these medals at those games were going to be nobody's meal ticket.

[texbike]

Unfortunately racism like stupidity exists EVERYWHERE. It's unrealistic to think that it wouldn't exist in cycling.

IMO racism (like stupidity) can never be fully erased. However, maybe we can mitigate its impact and spread by having the balls to constructively call people out on it when we see it.

Texbike

[e-RICHIE]

Unfortunately racism like stupidity exists EVERYWHERE. It's unrealistic to think that it wouldn't exist in cycling.

IMO racism (like stupidity) can never be fully erased. However, maybe we can mitigate its impact and spread by having the balls to constructively call people out on it when we see it.

Texbike

I think some of us are calling it out re the text linked in the OP. The writing added heat rather than light atmo.

[malcolm]

Unfortunately racism like stupidity exists EVERYWHERE. It's unrealistic to think that it wouldn't exist in cycling.

IMO racism (like stupidity) can never be fully erased. However, maybe we can mitigate its impact and spread by having the balls to constructively call people out on it when we see it.

Texbike

I whole heartedly agree as I stated in my original post, I think most racism now is the racism of indifference. We don't call people on unacceptable comments or actions.

The article as has been stated was not informative or educational but simply an opinionated antagonistic rant, that overshadowed any point he may have had.

[Formulasaab]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Agreed. ;)

[beeatnik]

The anecdotal statements by white guys insisting that they've never witnessed racism (in their own racing careers) are as unsophisticated as the blog's non-academically rigorous writing is accused of being.

[e-RICHIE]

The anecdotal statements by white guys insisting that they've never witnessed racism (in their own racing careers) are as unsophisticated as the blog's non-academically rigorous writing is accused of being.

I asked the other fellow yesterday so maybe a repeat is in order - what act of racism has someone
here experienced in a USAC/ABL/etc event, by another licensed rider, from an official, or related to
anything related to racing? Did it originate from a racist or from the sport? Serious.

[firerescuefin]

The anecdotal statements by white guys insisting that they've never witnessed racism (in their own racing careers) are as unsophisticated as the blog's non-academically rigorous writing is accused of being.

I'm white...not proud of it/don't feel bad about it...my wife and kids are a large percentage Korean...Yippee.

These folks "the whites" gave their input. It's what they saw. I don't doubt that what you've experienced is different, but don't minimize someone's input because they don't share your experiences. I don't claim to have experienced racism first hand the same way many if you have, but I can share my experience if asked. FWIW, I've seen it overtly in all other sports I have played. I haven't in cycling.

Edit: I have only been involved in the sport since 97.

[shovelhd]

The anecdotal statements by white guys insisting that they've never witnessed racism (in their own racing careers) are as unsophisticated as the blog's non-academically rigorous writing is accused of being.

Unsophisticated? I never said it doesn't happen, only that I have not witnessed it. The article is an opinion piece. So is my response.

The author's rant is misguided, and his examples are, using your term, "unsophisticated". USAC does not promote or support grassroots cycling. Period. They don't know or don't care about the color of your skin. If you are not a uber-elite destined for international stardom, you are dead to them. You pay your $60, you get your license.

[flydhest]

this thread is descending. Is it still necessary?

FWIW, not having perceived racism is not the same as not having witnessed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_effect

[beeatnik]

To paraphrase an earlier statement by a forumite who is an academic, it's difficult to add valid points to this discussion because by its nature it's a limited discourse. That is to say, most here wouldn't agree on a definition for racism and a methodology for critical analysis. So all we have are personal or historical narratives. Since there are very few black racers, the conversation suffers from their lack of input and from the heavy weight of the white narrative featured here.

[firerescuefin]

Since there are very few black racers, the conversation suffers from their lack of input and from the heavy weight of the white narrative featured here.

Completely agree

[e-RICHIE]

Since there are very few black racers, the conversation suffers from their lack of input and from the heavy weight of the white narrative featured here.
Are you saying, by extension, that the narrative here mirrors the sport, and/or Seth's implication about it? Yeah - I am asking seriously.

[slidey]

Completely agree that the african-american narrative is minimized here due to the lack of participation in the sport (for whatever reason). However I feel that racism is like dirt, you can always find it if you look hard enough (my GF's mom suffers from a perennial case of this...redoing laundry, redoing dishes, etc). Its like sting journalism in India (moi country) - every half-assed arts school dropout decides they can bust out a story by dropping in a flip-corder into their female classmate's handbag and asking her to pop off a couple of buttons of her shirt while she goes into meet <insert some official from schools to hospitals to state-level politicians> in the hope of extricating a look towards the chest, and then publish that video as evidence of sexual harassment. My understanding of racism is that its an act committed to segregate you differently from everyone else...its not racism if more african-americans feel like playing basketball instead of shelling out money on bicycles. I'm reasonably sure that their economic condition has a lot to do with this outlook of theirs as well, but that's real segregation right there...economic impoverishment over decades!

Coming to the article, you surely do agree that the whole victimisation of Bahati tone undertaken is horse-manure! And, if the author (term being loosely used here) of that blog ends with this as his punch-line, then it implies he's seeing the world through glasses which justifies his statement, and that perspective is parochial at best. As for the USAC, my limited understanding leads me to concur with what shovelhd said earlier. In other words its like the honey-badger...USAC don't give *****e about any of this. All they care about is staying afloat, and profiteering.

To paraphrase an earlier statement by a forumite who is an academic, it's difficult to add valid points to this discussion because by its nature it's a limited discourse. That is to say, most here wouldn't agree on a definition for racism and a methodology for critical analysis. So all we have are personal or historical narratives. Since there are very few black racers, the conversation suffers from their lack of input and from the heavy weight of the white narrative featured here.

[beeatnik]

Are you saying, by extension, that the narrative here mirrors the sport, and/or Seth's implication about it? Yeah - I am asking seriously.

So many ways to answer that. Racist ideologies in a structural or institutional sphere aren't necessarily symmetrical to cultural or inter-personal manifestations. Do the executives at USAC cycling self-identify as racists? More than likely, no. Can USAC or even the racing culture of the sport promote or project exclusionary/racist attitudes? I think so.

[e-RICHIE]

Completely agree that the african-american narrative is minimized here due to the lack of participation in the sport (for whatever reason). However I feel that racism is like dirt, you can always find it if you look hard enough (my GF's mom suffers from a perennial case of this...redoing laundry, redoing dishes, etc). Its like sting journalism in India (moi country) - every half-assed arts school dropout decides they can bust out a story by dropping in a flip-corder into their female classmate's handbag and asking her to pop off a couple of buttons of her shirt while she goes into meet <insert some official from schools to hospitals to state-level politicians> in the hope of extricating a look towards the chest, and then publish that video as evidence of sexual harassment. My understanding of racism is that its an act committed to segregate you differently from everyone else...its not racism if more african-americans feel like playing basketball instead of shelling out money on bicycles. I'm reasonably sure that their economic condition has a lot to do with this outlook of theirs as well, but that's real segregation right there...economic impoverishment over decades!

Coming to the article, you surely do agree that the whole victimisation of Bahati tone undertaken is horse-manure! And, if the author (term being loosely used here) of that blog ends with this as his punch-line, then it implies he's seeing the world through glasses which justifies his statement, and that perspective is parochial at best. As for the USAC, my limited understanding leads me to concur with what shovelhd said earlier. In other words its like the honey-badger...USAC don't give *****e about any of this. All they care about is staying afloat, and profiteering.
Ya know - that's a great summary (up there in boldface). There are really no numbers of economically impoverished whites in cycling either. There's no color issue at all here. It's money. Unlike a ball sport, one using just sneakers, or one played as a school activity, I think the sport has what it has, and that's folks participating if they have the time and the means to do so.

Thanks for that insight.

[shovelhd]

Can USAC or even the racing culture of the sport promote or project exclusionary/racist attitudes? I think so.

Can you give me a specific example of this? Even a hypothetical would be fine.

Racing, like most competition, is exclusionary in nature. There's the everybody-gets-a-medal level, and then there's real competition where you either make the team/category/division/whatever or you don't. I don't see USAC cycling discriminating at that level, it's all based on your performance.

Attitudes? That's so subjective. Example please.

Thank you.

[samsays]

My college roommate, now professional cyclist, would always say that cycling in America is the rich man's sport while in Europe the working man's sport and glory!

For whatever it means, I would agree economics has a lot to do with the cycling community here, but that is not universal. Perhaps because Europe has an organizational structure built to find and mentor racers regardless of economic background? Or lack of other competing sports in the French countryside? Point is, there could be a more diverse approach that broadens economic diversity of the sport in the early years here - but that is not racism by design.

[54ny77]

And here I thought raceism meant discriminating against those riding too slow.

Learn somethin' new here on the forums every day.

[beeatnik]

Last year, a Spanish-speaking cat showed up to my favorite training ride. He was in street clothes, sneakers and riding a Wal-Mart hybrid, helmetless. Immediately, he was dropped but somehow stayed close enough to get to the regroup spot. Same thing happened again but he made it to the 2nd and final regroup. For the last portion of the ride, I hung back and tried to pace him to the main group. Anyway, we chatted and exchanged contact info so I could give him a helmet. I figured he used his bike to ride to work (he's a busboy) and intercepted our ride by chance. In any case, he found his way to another training ride a few months later and was now on a too-small mid 90s Cannondale Frankenbike (48cm and this guy is 5'9") with Tiagra shifters mounted sideways on moustache bars. Short story long, last month he sent me a txt asking if $1500 was a good deal for carbon wheels. And, finally, last week I ran into him at the Rose Bowl, where he hopped on for a few laps, still riding that Cannondale and rocking untaped moustache bars. I told him to be careful and stay out the peloton since a crash could impale other riders. He gave me a look of disbelief and proceeded to show me a road race pic from Mexico, kitted out, rocking moustache bars. Lack of equipment doesn't mean lack of heart, IMO, and low income isn't as much a limiting factor as some would think, blog author included.

[1centaur]

No serious discussion can be had when definitions of the key words are not agreed upon, and there is a book (or an online reference) that has such definitions so time is not wasted. If one starts from the position that a dictionary definition is not correct, time wasting will ensue since the agenda does not prioritize illumination.

From dictionary.com:

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Note well that mere exclusionary behavior does not fit the definition. First, the belief of superiority must exist. People can be favored or excluded for lots of reasons without racism being involved. Assuming racism on the sole basis of exclusion is itself racist because the assumption would not have been possible ex the color of the excluders' skin. Of course, it is the unknowability of internal beliefs that causes so many to focus on the external and assume, but that does not make such assumptions reasonable. Where racism is not in fact evident, it is best not to make the charge. The mere possibility is insufficient.

[wallymann]

hey, no harm meant...its wonderful that you've never seen racism in cycling, i'm just observing that you might not be the most qualified to really, really see anything but blatant racism in any facet of sport or life.

There's no real need to characterize me, and it's probably not helpful to the discussion. I'll ask this as best I can given the medium - you write that cycling is a lot better than many other sports, and you precede that with that you encountered racism through the years. My question is about the sport (that's what the link is tied to) not the activity, or the past time. What activity can you articulate that has to do with the sport or an event or a fellow license holder? PS my clubs have always been multicultural and have had riders of all colors and backgrounds.

[e-RICHIE]

hey, no harm meant...its wonderful that you've never seen racism in cycling, i'm just observing that you might not be the most qualified to really, really see anything but blatant racism in any facet of sport or life.

I think I asked you earlier and never got a reply - what racism in this sport, not the leisure activity or past time of riding with pal - but in this sport - have you experienced, be it from a fellow licensee, a sanctioned event, and official, or anything/anyone remotely connected?

You don't know me, so I'll agree with you that I am not the most qualified to make these observations. But I am hardly unqualified to make them either.

[pbarry]

My college roommate, now professional cyclist, would always say that cycling in America is the rich man's sport while in Europe the working man's sport and glory!

This ^^, is the difference between the U.S. road racing culture and that of the continent. If this is a revelation to some, then they haven't been reading their cycling history. Monetary funds as a junior racer have more to do with being in the mix than race does.

[cmg]

http://www.usacycling.org/regional-talent-id-camps.htm and http://www.usacycling.org/usa-cyclings-national-development-pathway-step-by-step.htm


this is the extend of USA cyclings development efforts. Athlete has to go to them not the other way around. hope he has resourses or awareness.

[rallizes]

revealing thread

[XXtwindad]

Great topic. And, before this thread gets locked, I miss Beeatnik. He had a unique voice.

[AngryScientist]

Hey folks,

Let's just keep Paceline a safe zone to come and relax.

There are 99,000 other places on the internet to come and discuss hot button current events. At least for the time being, let's just avoid them here.

Thanks for understanding.