H+Son Archetype Finish Preservation Tip

[eBAUMANN]

My roommate built up a set of black Archetype rims recently and I decided to use him as a guinea pig of sorts to test brake wear on the rims using 2 different brake pad compounds.

On the front brake, kool stop salmons.

On the rear, sram/swiss stop blacks.

The rear, as I expected, wore the finish away after only a few rides, maybe 200-250mi.

The front however looks almost brand new! Almost zero evidence of braking. I even scolded him for only using his rear brake to stop, as the brake track on the front rim was THAT CLEAN.

So, it seems that my little test was a success!

Preserve your black archetype finish with SALMON COMPOUND BRAKE PADS!

[MattTuck]

To confirm this, you'd have to repeat the experiment with the brake-pads reversed.

I do like this citizen science approach though. And appreciate you sharing the results, can we get one other person with brand new rims to sign on to the study?


Edit: Another way might be to use the different compounds on different sides of the same wheel. ie. Salmon would be on the left pads of the bikes, and black on the right sides.

[reggiebaseball]

good tip!

[bobswire]

My roommate built up a set of black Archetype rims recently and I decided to use him as a guinea pig of sorts to test brake wear on the rims using 2 different brake pad compounds.

On the front brake, kool stop salmons.

On the rear, sram/swiss stop blacks.

The rear, as I expected, wore the finish away after only a few rides, maybe 200-250mi.

The front however looks almost brand new! Almost zero evidence of braking. I even scolded him for only using his rear brake to stop, as the brake track on the front rim was THAT CLEAN.

So, it seems that my little test was a success!

Preserve your black archetype finish with SALMON COMPOUND BRAKE PADS!

Interesting,especially when you consider the front takes up most of the braking.

[eBAUMANN]

To confirm this, you'd have to repeat the experiment with the brake-pads reversed.

I do like this citizen science approach though. And appreciate you sharing the results, can we get one other person with brand new rims to sign on to the study?


Edit: Another way might be to use the different compounds on different sides of the same wheel. ie. Salmon would be on the left pads of the bikes, and black on the right sides.

im building 2 more sets of black archetype wheels in the next few weeks, will continue to test and report results ;)

[Nooch]

any rides in the rain?

mine took the big hit the first time i rode in the rain.. BUT, i run swiss stop's as well.

[GRAVELBIKE]

I tested the Archetypes with salmon pads front and rear, and after a couple of hundred dry miles, there was no discernible wear on the brake tracks.

[cfox]

Swisstop original black are just about the softest compound out there, certainly the softest I've used. I used them for a season with a set of Nemesis wheels with almost no wearing of the ano brake tracks.

[Grant McLean]

mine took the big hit the first time i rode in the rain.

Yup.

-g

[christian]

1) I like science.
2) You have a good roommate.
3) That said... I have worn the crap out of all the anodization on my rims. All it takes is 50 mins of cyclocross!

[bluesea]

To confirm this, you'd have to repeat the experiment with the brake-pads reversed.



Don't forget the new rims.

[Tony T]

On the front brake, kool stop salmons.
On the rear, sram/swiss stop blacks.
Preserve your black archetype finish with SALMON COMPOUND BRAKE PADS!

Interesting. I would have expected wear from the Salmons as: "Our most famous Salmon compound is also one of our most aggressive compounds for extreme all weather conditions especially in the wet, but still superb in the dry.

What about the Kool Stop Black? They're less "aggressive"

[eBAUMANN]

Yea I really don't know how to explain it, but it's staring me right in the face. No rides in the wet yet (that I know of) but I'd imagine even the salmons couldn't save the rims from that kinda abrasion.

[Louis]

I'll be the crusty old crank:

Some things were just made to wear. Brake pads and brake tracks are on that list. I'm all for keeping wheels looking good, but trying to keep brake tracks like new is like trying to keep white bar tape like new, all you can do is delay the inevitable.

[beeatnik]

Ya, I had a friend with OCD who couldn't handle seeing any loss of anodization on his Open Pros. He'd always go with Kool Stop Salmons.

I just go with these:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8396/8693559801_40dc960c7e.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8672782989_aacc0795ac.jpg

[Tony T]

I'm all for keeping wheels looking good, but trying to keep brake tracks like new is like trying to keep white bar tape like new, all you can do is delay the inevitable.

That's the problem with anodized brake tracks. With non-anodized, you can clean the track with scotch brite.
And for white bar tape, use Lemon Pledge!

[eddief]

so we can have machined brake tracks and have the colors we want. Think of it, black machined brake tracks, but not from being anodized, just pure black aluminum.

[eBAUMANN]

Here are some crappy pictures to illustrate the example I described...

Back:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8544/8694753670_c9b9641f71.jpg

Front:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8118/8694753150_72d9eb17fd.jpg

[bluesea]

^ Doesn't look bad at all, just like dark ano Open Pros.

[eBAUMANN]

^ Doesn't look bad at all, just like dark ano Open Pros.

keep in mind this is after only maybe 350mi or so.

[Tony T]

Looks like a pebble got caught in the brake pad on the rear (based on the groove).

[bluesea]

keep in mind this is after only maybe 350mi or so.

We're reminded that ano brake tracks are all show and all go. :mad: The quicker the less pain, unfortunately. Hope the glamour shots were taken care of early on.

[Nick209]

Black swiss stops destroyed my archtypes.

[Tony T]

Black swiss stops destroyed my archtypes.

Anyone use the Black Kool Stops? As they're less aggressive than the Kool Stop Salmon, shouldn't they also be good?

[eBAUMANN]

We're reminded that ano brake tracks are all show and all go. :mad: The quicker the less pain, unfortunately. Hope the glamour shots were taken care of early on.

im a professional photo retoucher...the glamour shots can happen whenever ;)

also the black rims aren't anodized, only the grey.

[Mark McM]

Interesting. I would have expected wear from the Salmons as: "Our most famous Salmon compound is also one of our most aggressive compounds for extreme all weather conditions especially in the wet, but still superb in the dry.

What about the Kool Stop Black? They're less "aggressive"

"Aggressive" does not necessarily mean abrasive. Most abrasive wear of rims is due to dirt and grit picked up and held by the brake pads (thus the reason that rim wear accelerates in wet, grungy, gritty conditions). Kool Stop Salmon pads are less prone to holding grit, and thus cause less abrasive wear than other pads.

[keevon]

I can confirm that Campy black brake pads quickly and evenly wear the anodization off H Plus Son rims.

It's going to happen anyway. Embrace it, wear off the ano, and move on with life. Silver brake tracks look nice.

[Tony T]

I can confirm that Campy black brake pads quickly and evenly wear the anodization off H Plus Son rims.

Campy are know to be aggressive
...well according to Zipp, anyway:
Brake Pads for Clincher Wheelsets
We recommend using Zipp Carbon/Carbon brake pads with any aluminum braking surface, including our own clincher wheels. Standard brake pads will work, but might cause premature wear to the braking surface due to the use of abrasives such as aluminum oxide in the pads. As discussed with our tubular rims, we do not recommend using Campagnolo pads.



It's going to happen anyway. Embrace it, wear off the ano, and move on with life. Silver brake tracks look nice.

Yep, like the 1st ding on a new car, better to get it over with right away ;)

[c12mech]

Glad I saw this thread. I have a set of wheels being built right now with Archetype rims.

Personally I don't care about the wear. As long as the wheel is not damaged. I like the way silver brake tacks look.

[killerrabbit]

thanks for the heads up. i was actually thinking of having a set built up, but on the cheapo side. any thoughts on novatec hubs?

[XJBaylor]

thanks for the heads up. i was actually thinking of having a set built up, but on the cheapo side. any thoughts on novatec hubs?

Nothing wrong with them, but I have had great success with my bikehubstore hubs. Wide flanges and pretty good build quality for a great price. He offers Archetypes too.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

My Archetype black rims are wearing the same way--more in the rear rim than the front. This is with Swisstop Green pads. Doesn't bother me in the least. Great rims.

[Tony T]

Too bad they're not offered with a silver brake track (like HEDs)

[echelon_john]

The polished ones are big pimpin' and have a silver brake track.

Too bad they're not offered with a silver brake track (like HEDs)

[XJBaylor]

Too bad they're not offered with a silver brake track (like HEDs)

You can get the model with the silver brake track in the used market.

[Tony T]

The polished ones are big pimpin' and have a silver brake track.

Yeah, it was tough deciding between the two. Went with black, polished next set.

[Black Dog]

Instead of going through all the trouble of switching pads front to back, just switch the wheels front to back...:)

I have switched from swiss stop black to swiss stop green and they have more stopping power, very nice. :cool: I wonder if the green compound is more like the kool stop salmon?

[EDS]

Too bad they're not offered with a silver brake track (like HEDs)

Mine have a silver brake track. Of course, they had a black brake track 1500 miles ago.

[killerrabbit]

:banana:

You can get the model with the silver brake track in the used market.

[yummygooey]

Does anyone have pics of the hard ano finish after a decent amount of mileage? I would like to see how the hard ano finish wears, and get a feel for how long the finish will last. Worn ano looks balleur, imo, but maybe the worn black looks better than the worn ano, or vice versa.

[eippo1]

Nothing wrong with them, but I have had great success with my bikehubstore hubs. Wide flanges and pretty good build quality for a great price. He offers Archetypes too.

Agreed. I have a couple sets of wheels with these hubs. Have worked fine for me although I don't have a ton of mileage on the wheels.

[XJBaylor]

My Archetype black rims are wearing the same way--more in the rear rim than the front. This is with Swisstop Green pads. Doesn't bother me in the least. Great rims.

It seems backwards, but I think there is some logic in it. The front tire picks up dust and dirt, more of which contacts the back rim. That gathering dirt becomes the abrasive removing the finish on the brake tracks.

[jlwdm]

Yeah, it was tough deciding between the two. Went with black, polished next set.

Where can you buy the polished rims? Seem really hard to come by.

Thanks.

Jeff

[Columbus SLX]

Where can you buy the polished rims? Seem really hard to come by.

Thanks.

Jeff

Indeed. You can order directly from Tzusing (son). The minimum is 5 pcs. (in case you build two bikes and a unicycle, I suppose) but at 10 pcs. you get better shipping rates. I've ordered about 20 rims in various finishes and drilings so far for the team and friends. He's a great guy.

I don't recall that Q or anyone that carries them unbuilt state side.

[jlwdm]

Yes, direct is all I can find.

Jeff

[kenmetzger]

Many shops could order a 32 hole drilling polished rim for you. It is sold through JB Importers which many shops should have access to. Other drillings look like they would need to be ordered directly.