semi OT: Paypal question

[moose8]

So I am selling a roholff wheelset this weekend to someone who seems trustworthy and straightforward, but is remotely located. I've talked with him and he seems completely legit, but I recently got burned renting a house from someone where I thought the same thing so I am in a trust but verify mode. The plan is for his friend to come and check out the wheelset, and if all goes well, he will then paypal me the money, at which point his friend will take the wheelset. I'm not overly familiar with paypal, but seems like this would work fine. The plan is to do the transfer to avoid any fees. Once I have the money in my paypal it's mine, right? There is no way it can be a scam or anything like that is there? I won't let the wheels ago until I see the money in my paypal. Thanks in advance for any input from those more experienced in these matters.

[jamaris]

With paypal is that in that type of transaction, he must pay you using "personal" funds. It cannot be attached with any fees. If there are fees attached, he could file a claim that he never received them since they were never shipped.

It's a back door awful move but it can be done. Cash is king in personal transaction where you are unsure. Or paypal with no fees, but with fees, it can (hopefully won't) get weird.

[justinrchan]

I don't think you can avoid paying the Papal Fees as the receiver of funds. Make sure that it goes through as a sale fo goods and not a gift.

[norcalbiker]

The plan is for his friend to come and check out the wheelset, and if all goes well, he will then paypal me the money, at which point his friend will take the wheelset.

Can his friend pay for it?

[bikerboy337]

If he's picking it up, you want it sent as a gift... there is no way for him to get the money back if its a gift... if its a sale for goods, he can claim it was never sent as has been said and file a claim with paypal.... paypal protects buyers more than sellers as I've found out...

If its gifted to you, you pay no fees... the buyer either pays the fees (or has no fees if its from their paypal account)...



I don't think you can avoid paying the Papal Fees as the receiver of funds. Make sure that it goes through as a sale fo goods and not a gift.

[christian]

Make sure that it goes through as a sale fo goods and not a gift.
No. This is dead wrong. This is exactly what you DON'T want to do if you're not shipping.

Have him paypal his friend, his friend gets money out of the ATM, his friend gives you money.

[killacks]

I'd be wary, too. It sounds like a craigslist scam

[Louis]

have him paypal his friend, his friend gets money out of the atm, his friend gives you money.

+1

Edit: There's a reason big drug deals are done with suitcases full of cash. If it's good enough for Joaquin Guzman it ought to be good enough for you.

[vqdriver]

Have him paypal his friend, his friend gets money out of the ATM, his friend gives you money.

this
if delivery is in person, so is payment

[moose8]

Thanks for the responses - I just want to confirm that if I have paypal money in my account from him and it is not transferred via pay for an item but is rather transferred as a gift or as money owed, once it's in my paypal I am ok. I think it sounds more "scammy" than it may in fact be as I am the one pushing to get it done - he suggested waiting to meet in person, but I need to get some cash to pay for an important non-bike related item so I told him I wanted to do it asap, and this was the solution we came up with, as his friend is going to be in my area this weekend, though his friend doesn't live in the same area as him now and doesn't want to walk around with a ton of cash but is willing to pick up the wheels.

[tmf]

There are some payments that take longer to complete (the payment is designated as an "e-check"). I can't remember at this moment what type of transaction or payment results in an e-check, but it does delay deposit for 2-3 days. That would put a wrinkle in things if the payment hasn't cleared and the friend is there to get the wheels.

[Louis]

As long as he's sure that the "friend" doesn't like them so much that he decides to keep the wheels...

[daker13]

Thanks for the responses - I just want to confirm that if I have paypal money in my account from him and it is not transferred via pay for an item but is rather transferred as a gift or as money owed, once it's in my paypal I am ok. I think it sounds more "scammy" than it may in fact be as I am the one pushing to get it done - he suggested waiting to meet in person, but I need to get some cash to pay for an important non-bike related item so I told him I wanted to do it asap, and this was the solution we came up with, as his friend is going to be in my area this weekend, though his friend doesn't live in the same area as him now and doesn't want to walk around with a ton of cash but is willing to pick up the wheels.

I believe paypal can show money in your paypal account, and then take that money back again... I'm sorry I don't recall the details, as I'm one of those crusty guys who believes the best days of ebay were ten years ago, and I avoid all that paypal garbage unless absolutely desperate... I can see trusting him if he really seems okay, but I too don't understand why his friend couldn't just pay you in cash.

[christian]

Your paypal user agreement lets them take and hold money in your paypal account (and debit the associated checking account).

To be safe, you would need to:
- Get the money in paypal
- Transfer it to your associated checking account
- Withdraw it from that account or transfer it to an alternate account
- Ensure you have $0 paypal account balance and $0 associated checking account balance

Or take a chance and hope he won't screw you.

[Ralph]

PayPal is just an Internet bank.....a pioneer in area of Internet sales. It's owned by E Bay. They transfer funds, hold funds, issue credit and debit cards, etc just like other banks.....just no brick and mortor locations. I don't see them as more risky than other online transactions I do between banks, investment accounts, credit cards, bill pay,etc. I can't remember the last time I actually wrote a check (and rarely get a real check), and I'm an old guy. Would assume you younger fellows W/B a lot more advanced and comfortable with these kinds of transaction than I am.

[christian]

Paypal is NOT an internet bank in the US. While is is subject to federal laws such as Reg. E, USA Patriot Act, AML, it is generally regulated as a money transmitted at State Levels.

[Ralph]

Maybe Online Bank more accurate term for now anyway.

http://webinternetbanking.com/paypal-online-internet-banking_banks_web-internet-banking.html

[srice]

I had one person pull ebay funds back from after delivery. I sold a box of Twinkies last year to some fool in CA for $20. I was lazy and never confirmed receipt of the money and he yanked it back after I had already shipped. I was out a few bucks, nothing major, and a box of Twinkies.

[ultrafi]

you need to look at whether they're confirmed or not and whether the sale is for over $250.

[HenryA]

You're asking for trouble here.
If his buddy can come inspect, then he can hand you the cash when he leaves with the goods.

Read the whole Paypal user agreement. They can pretty much do anything they want to claw back the money.

[Tony T]

"Cash is King"

[Tony T]

I had one person pull ebay funds back from after delivery. I sold a box of Twinkies last year to some fool in CA for $20. I was lazy and never confirmed receipt of the money and he yanked it back after I had already shipped. I was out a few bucks, nothing major, and a box of Twinkies.

Twinkees will be back on the shelves this summer.

[srice]

Twinkees will be back on the shelves this summer.

Yes, they'll be back without the union labor

[rugbysecondrow]

I have paid via paypal for an onsight transaction...they accept paypal at southwest airlines, home depot and other places. It isn't voodoo.

Frankly, I have asked to pay via paypal onsight because I don't feel comfortable loaded with that much cash going to a strange persons house. You might be protecting your interests, but I have to protect mine as well.

If all else fails, sell it to somebody else.

[pbarry]

As others have said: The buyer can send funds as a gift to his friend, and they can bring you cash. Any other arrangement leaves loopholes.

[rugbysecondrow]

Inform me, how can somebody send you money through PayPal, then just take it back?

I get that people spook easily, how many millions of pay pal transaction happen daily? It is not an illegitimate process.

Sure, bad **** happens, but I lost my wallet once with 200 dollars in it...cash isn't full proof. Send a check, your account and routing numbers are just floating around the free(and not so free) world.

[pbarry]

No, it's certainly not an illegitimate process, and, as such, there is recourse built into the user agreement. Who wants to go through the drill if it can be avoided?

In this case, [and,I'm being presumptuous], it's a Craigslist listing with a remote buyer. I've had good luck doing this, and did a search on the buyers names to see what kind of net cred they had.

JMO, but if a friend can bother to show up and look at the item, then they can pay for it at the time of purchase. Call me old-fashioned.

[Tony T]

Yes, they'll be back without the union labor

Well, at least it's not being outsourced overseas :)

[Tony T]

I have paid via paypal for an onsight transaction...they accept paypal at southwest airlines, home depot and other places. It isn't voodoo.

After all this discussion, I went to PayPal.com, and it looks like the answer to the OP is there:

[Tony T]

I believe paypal can show money in your paypal account, and then take that money back again...

Same with AMEX, Visa, Mastercard, and Commercial Banks. It just does not "happen", the payor has to file a dispute. So, one more thing the OP should do is to have the person picking up the wheels sign a receipt.

[idragen]

Luckily, I have had good experiences going through Craigslist/Paypal as a buyer as paying for goods (with the fee option to the seller) allows you to have some level of confidence when buying from strangers. If I were a seller I would not mind the paypal as a gift if the friend picked up the wheels for him. That's just me personally. You can always have him add in a note when sending funds regarding the transaction.

[retrogrouchy]

As long as he's sure that the "friend" doesn't like them so much that he decides to keep the wheels...

Got it!

To the OP, what was the outcome?

IMO, PayPal is great. I use it all the time, both buying and selling. That said, I don't go to a swap meet, buy a set of wheels, and ask to pay via PayPal. Cash is king. I hand you cash, you hand me wheels. Simple.

Make the 'friend' bring cash. It's not like we're talking about $50,000 here!

I sold a car last year for nearly $20,000. The buyer brought cash (he was from Canada, I'm in the US, near Canada, and that made things as simple as possible at the time of the transaction, though it was certainly more work for him - Customs from both countries were involved, paperwork at the border crossing, etc., but he knew that it was the best way to proceed with near-zero risk for both parties).

No cash, no wheels! No soup for him! ;)

[moose8]

The guy's friend didn't end up showing up, so it was all moot. The guy who wants the wheels, though, paypalled me $50 the morning the guy was supposed to come over to see if we had the structure of the transaction right for me not getting any fees, which is sitting in my account. I haven't heard back from the guy, but I still think he's legit, and I imagine since he has already paid me a small amount he still wants the wheels. It'll probably end up being in person as I will be in his neck of the woods in a few weeks, and we had discussed doing it that way before he said his friend would be in town. Unfortunately because it didn't happen I had to sell some stock to pay for something, but such is life.