I was watching some older (86, 89, 1990) TDF videos and noticed...

[Frank]

several things about them compared to more recent TDF videos I have seen.

It was pretty cool to see lugged steel bikes...downtube shifters...threaded forks...quill stems...chrome...no earpieces for constant communication with the team car..."heavier" riders...teams with more than one rider who could win the TDF...seeing teammates jockeying for position with each other for position in the race...and many other things I am sure I forgot.

The biggest positive difference to me was the racing. That may be because of the recent domination of Armstrong, and before him Indurain, but it was fun to watch a TDF where the winner of the tour, as well as so many individual stages, was open to so many. It also seemed that the riders had more of an opportunity to develop tactics and make decisions while on the road, rather than everything being scripted and directed by someone not on a bike.

It was fun to watch someone break away from the pack and having the folks behind him having to wonder how big his lead was. I enjoyed seeing teammates vying for the lead in the race when both had good form. I enjoyed the drama in the 1986 race when LeMond and Hinault were teammates and Hinault had vowed to work to help Lemond win the TDF after LeMond held back in '85, yet Hinault attacked until he finally blew up and LeMond emerged the winner. LeMond comments during the race he doesn't trust Hinault...and with good reason.

I know the racers and equipment are better today with the advancements in technology and training and medicine, but for many reasons the older TDF's I watched over Thanksgiving seemed more interesting and exciting to me.

[dbrk]

Of all the things I would take away from contemporary racing the first and foremost would be the ear pieces and communication devices. It's sorta' ruined pro football too. I mean, who calls their own plays? What would Johnny U. think? Well, that and a lot of other things. At least you can't dance around in triumph as a bike racer without getting flicked. And there's still the brushback pitch even though no one has any fundamental skills anymore, just super athletic prowess. I liked things better Then. I would love to see a pro bike race on Super Record equipped bikes... again. But there's no going back. Way more interesting to me. Oh, one more thing you'll notice about Those Better Days: no slopers. Gosh, I reallllly dislike slopers (except when they get ordinary guys out riding and give them a decent fit...I dunno, I still think they are 99% unnecessary.)

I still watch some bike racing, especially if it's in Italian, but the whole thing is like Formula 1 Gran Prix racing or something. Sure, it's sorta' cool but I've nothing in common with the cars, drivers, sponsors, or whatever: it's just glitzy entertainment. The good news (this will sound even grumpier...) with the end of the Armstrong era is that Americans will go back to not paying any attention and I deem that a real positive. I prefer obscurity to more corporate involvement and crowds.

I'll go away now...

dbrk (prolix here but otherwise no cell, no beeper, no phone mail at University where I'm the only Professor ever to ask to have it removed, and would prefer carrier pigeon or owl. The Internet lets you ignore stuff even more... Nice guy, huh? Yikes.)

[Zard]

I agree. Get rid of the radio communications. Seems to take a lot of the drama out of the races.

Still, it would be interesting what current pro riders think of them and what role they play on the outcome of a race, etc.

[Fixed]

bro I agree I'd think would be cool if all the pros had to race on the same kind of bikes all lugged steel with a standard that had to be met to be a offical tour bike and each bike co.would have to meet i.m.h.o.cheers :beer:

[victoryfactory]

Frank;
Interesting points about racing back then. But as the tactics
equipment, training and general feel has changed over
the years, one thing remains: the drama of competition. It's just shifted
from the way it was to this new juiced up. wired up, teched up style. If you
tune in at the right moment, there's still some racing. Do you think those
young racers are thinking about the good old days?

DBRK;
nice rant. Is that you or the tofurky overdose talking? BTW, what's uglier?
A 4 degree TT slope or a quill stem extended so far up that it's showing
5 inches above the headset? When it comes to getting the bars up to a
good height, there's more than one way to skin a tofu,
Thankfully

VF, I love a good rant....

[Andreu]

guys in my club did the Milan - San Remo gran fondo this year (which is basically an "amateur" race) and some of the Italian teams had earpieces.
I kind of get the professional reasoning (though I don't like it) but amateurs?
Mind, I have heard it said that the top Gran Fondo guys take drugs too.
All for the prestige of being like or looking like a pseudo professional. The lengths some people go to.
A

[bluesea]

Someday half of us will be riding Campy with electronic shifting, regardless of what we think about it at the moment.

[siena01]

Although they're not a recent introduction to the Tour I think time trial specific bikes should be banned.

Yep ... regular bike with regular bars for every stage.

[manet]

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper227/stills/mm2b4p6r.gif

[manet]

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/turkeybush.jpg

[Fixed]

guys in my club did the Milan - San Remo gran fondo this year (which is basically an "amateur" race) and some of the Italian teams had earpieces.
I kind of get the professional reasoning (though I don't like it) but amateurs?
Mind, I have heard it said that the top Gran Fondo guys take drugs too.
All for the prestige of being like or looking like a pseudo professional. The lengths some people go to.
A bro and who won that race ? cheers :beer:

[shaq-d]

bro I agree I'd think would be cool if all the pros had to race on the same kind of bikes all lugged steel with a standard that had to be met to be a offical tour bike and each bike co.would have to meet i.m.h.o.cheers :beer:

agreed.just like in sailing. all the boats are exactly the same for Laser class, america's cup, etc... the winner is simply the best sailor.

sd

[shaq-d]

nice rant. Is that you or the tofurky overdose talking? BTW, what's uglier?
A 4 degree TT slope or a quill stem extended so far up that it's showing
5 inches above the headset? When it comes to getting the bars up to a
good height, there's more than one way to skin a tofu,


tofurky, lol. i think any quill looks WAY better than the threadlesses...

sd

[vaxn8r]

bro I agree I'd think would be cool if all the pros had to race on the same kind of bikes all lugged steel with a standard that had to be met to be a offical tour bike and each bike co.would have to meet i.m.h.o.cheers :beer:
You mean like the Little 500?

[dirtdigger88]

You mean like the Little 500?

have you ever actually seen one of those bikes?

They're Tanks!!

Jason

[Fixed]

You mean like the Little 500?bro I was thinking more like the japanese do with keirin racing they are still high end bikes. tour bikes would be a high end road bike just all the same i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[ti_boi]

several things about them compared to more recent TDF videos I have seen.

It was pretty cool to see lugged steel bikes...downtube shifters...threaded forks...quill stems...chrome...no earpieces for constant communication with the team car..."heavier" riders...teams with more than one rider who could win the TDF...seeing teammates jockeying for position with each other for position in the race...and many other things I am sure I forgot.

The biggest positive difference to me was the racing. That may be because of the recent domination of Armstrong, and before him Indurain, but it was fun to watch a TDF where the winner of the tour, as well as so many individual stages, was open to so many. It also seemed that the riders had more of an opportunity to develop tactics and make decisions while on the road, rather than everything being scripted and directed by someone not on a bike.

It was fun to watch someone break away from the pack and having the folks behind him having to wonder how big his lead was. I enjoyed seeing teammates vying for the lead in the race when both had good form. I enjoyed the drama in the 1986 race when LeMond and Hinault were teammates and Hinault had vowed to work to help Lemond win the TDF after LeMond held back in '85, yet Hinault attacked until he finally blew up and LeMond emerged the winner. LeMond comments during the race he doesn't trust Hinault...and with good reason.

I know the racers and equipment are better today with the advancements in technology and training and medicine, but for many reasons the older TDF's I watched over Thanksgiving seemed more interesting and exciting to me.


I say bring back the mullet!!!! Who is with me???

[The Spider]

yeah...mullets....

and fluro old school Oakleys....wait....oh damn they just did that...

[Ozz]

agree with above....get rid of the radios on the riders. If the team leader wants to know what the DS is thinking send someone back to ask him. ;)

Also, what was the last year steel bikes were prevalent in the peloton, or a rider won riding one? I'm thinking about '96 or so...anyone know for sure?

[jerk]

the jerk says race radios make racing safer for the riders. team cars are more likely to follow the rules, dangers up the road can be prepared for and riders can race smarter.

jerk

[OldDog]

Someday half of us will be riding Campy with electronic shifting, regardless of what we think about it at the moment.


The other half of us are stocking up on pre plastic goodies. :beer:

[Vancouverdave]

There is a precedent that involves high quality bikes--Japanese Kierin track racing. A couple of forum members, including one who most assuredly builds a better frame, own road bikes built by one of the official Kierin frame builders.

[MartyE]

Thats why I prefer to watch the northern classics.
My thought is that races like Paris Roubaix, Het Volk,
the Ronde, Amstel etc. are less affected by the
things that Frank noted than the grand tours.

Y'all know that LA's bluff and subsequent "look"
would never have worked/happened if it weren't
for race radio and headsets.

Marty