Sram Red vs Ultegra Di2 vs DA9000

[justinrchan]

Looking at a new build and would like to solicit some input on which groupset you would choose. The new Sram Red is the lightest of the bunch here. DA9000 is 11 speed. And the Ultegra Di2 is obviously the only electric option here. Assume I can get any of these at around the same price or at least within a few hundred $.

Which one would you go for?

[KidWok]

The one that feels nicest to you. I haven't touched the new SRAM or 9000, but have at least played with the current gen Di2 a little. Double tap, traditional Shimano mechanical, and Di2 all feel very different to me. Close your eyes and pick the one that feels best in your hands.

Tai

[christian]

Of those, Ui2 by a tiny nose over 9000, I think. But could be different tomorrow. The pre-obsoleted RED ten-speed? Not by a long shot. Assume your wheel investments preclude Chorus? Because otherwise, that'd be first or second on my list.

[AngryScientist]

of those, i would personally pick 9000 every time. that group is simply superb.

[oldpotatoe]

Looking at a new build and would like to solicit some input on which groupset you would choose. The new Sram Red is the lightest of the bunch here. DA9000 is 11 speed. And the Ultegra Di2 is obviously the only electric option here. Assume I can get any of these at around the same price or at least within a few hundred $.

Which one would you go for?

Wait for Ultegra Di2 11s, or look at Athena EPS..IMHO. 10s ('new' Old Red) is so yesterday.

[ahumblecycler]

I agree with AngryScientist; DA9000 all the way. I feel it is the true upgrade all Shimano users wanted following 7800. I have been riding 7900 for nearly 3 years now, and while it is reliable, I still find the ergonomics to be lacking. The new DA9000, when set up correctly, feels electronic to me. Having said that, I know electronic is in my future but at this moment.

I believe 10-speed will exist for many years to come. The new Red is great over previous Red in terms of front shifting and hood ergonomics. However, I do not feel compelled to replace my existing Red with it. On the other hand, I cannot wait to replace my 7900 with 9000 (or electronic).

[tpalmer]

I'd have to pick the new SRAM red group. Light, simple, easy to maintain. No fussing with batteries or charging. The yaw front deraileur is a thing of beauty. That said, double tap takes a bit of getting used to.

[oldpotatoe]

I'd have to pick the new SRAM red group. Light, simple, easy to maintain. No fussing with batteries or charging. The yaw front deraileur is a thing of beauty. That said, double tap takes a bit of getting used to.

No doubt better than the previous generation BUT 2 points..first, ride sram first..make sure you can live with double-tap(as was mentioned) AND I think the intro of new, new 11s red now is somewhat disappointing..as it will make old red(non compatible, according to sram) somewhat obsolete. BUT whatever the gent decides..I'd say get a 11s compatible rear hub regardless of using 10s or 11s...

[saab2000]

No brainer. 9000. It's the future.

[justinrchan]

Thanks all for the input. I do have the old Sram Red now on one bike and DA7900 on another bike. I actually like both gruppos. I know some people talk about how 7900 isn't that great but I think it is pretty good. Not a huge improvement over 7800 but it is still a very nice group.

I was leaning towards Red because of the weight and all the reviews I read about it but may have to really consider 9000.

As for Ultegra Di2, maybe I am old school but I am not sure if I really really want electronic shifting.

[vav]

9K all the way

http://www.bicycling.com/sites/default/files/images/Dura-ace-9000.jpg

[Len J]

Are the 9000 hoods smaller than the cow-horn 7800/7900?

As to 9000 vs. DI2......I don't get the electronic thing, but I've never talked to anyone who has it and hasn't loved it. It seems to be a shift it and forget it thing.

Why limit yourself to Shimano and SRAM though?

Len

[FlashUNC]

Athena EPS.

Stellar stuff.

[EDS]

No doubt better than the previous generation BUT 2 points..first, ride sram first..make sure you can live with double-tap(as was mentioned) AND I think the intro of new, new 11s red now is somewhat disappointing..as it will make old red(non compatible, according to sram) somewhat obsolete. BUT whatever the gent decides..I'd say get a 11s compatible rear hub regardless of using 10s or 11s...

Do Campy 10 spit components work with Campy 11 speed components?

Do Shimano 10 speed components work with Shimano 11 speed components?

[justinrchan]

Good question - I have never been a Campy kind of guy. Not that i don't like Campy but I have always preferred Shimano or Sram.


Are the 9000 hoods smaller than the cow-horn 7800/7900?

As to 9000 vs. DI2......I don't get the electronic thing, but I've never talked to anyone who has it and hasn't loved it. It seems to be a shift it and forget it thing.

Why limit yourself to Shimano and SRAM though?

Len

[LegendRider]

What's your current wheel situation? If you are not prevented from running 11sp DA 9000, that's what I'd do in a heartbeat. I was at the LBS yesterday playing with it and the group is sublime.

[justinrchan]

I was planning to not have a dedicated wheel for this bike but rather share b/w 2 bikes. The other bike runs the DA7900 so that may make my decision for me where I can't get the DA9000.

What's your current wheel situation? If you are not prevented from running 11sp DA 9000, that's what I'd do in a heartbeat. I was at the LBS yesterday playing with it and the group is sublime.

[LegendRider]

I was planning to not have a dedicated wheel for this bike but rather share b/w 2 bikes. The other bike runs the DA7900 so that may make my decision for me where I can't get the DA9000.

FROM REDKITEPRAYER:

TTT says:
April 21, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Is there any cost-effective way to run 9000 with Shimano 10 speed wheels? I have 7850 SLs and 7900/Hed Belgiums.

Padraig says:
April 22, 2013 at 7:27 am
TTT: You can replace your freehub body on your rear wheel with a new 11-speed-compatible freehub and then have the wheel re-dished (only a millimeter or so).

[T.J.]

Justin, I told you , go ride DI2. Your decision will be made:banana:

[oldpotatoe]

FROM REDKITEPRAYER:

TTT says:
April 21, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Is there any cost-effective way to run 9000 with Shimano 10 speed wheels? I have 7850 SLs and 7900/Hed Belgiums.

Padraig says:
April 22, 2013 at 7:27 am
TTT: You can replace your freehub body on your rear wheel with a new 11-speed-compatible freehub and then have the wheel re-dished (only a millimeter or so).

Don't think so..I've been wrong before but the 9000 FH body won't fit the 7900 rear hub nor the 7850 hub..maybe shimano is making a 11s FH body for these wheels?

[Chris]

I've heard that Shimano will NOT make 11speed upgrade cassettes for their wheels. You can already do this if you have a Mavic wheel and you can send back Zipps for "upgrade" I believe. So, if you are in my shoes, the 5 RS80 and 1 Dura Ace wheelset I have are obsolete as soon as I switch to 9000. This has made me look elsewhere for wheels when I move to 9000 as a principle decision.

[vqdriver]

if it were me, i'd pass on all them and get the new 11sp sram force. looks loads better than the red. with the money saved, you could get some pretty pimp wheels to go with it if you just have to spend it.

fwiw, i have 10sp sram red on one bike and 9000 on another. the 11sp DA was a return to shimano for me, and tho i cannot fault 9000 in any respect whatsoever, i prefer the more positive shifting action of sram so i'll probably go back to sram once they release the 11sp stuff.

if you like the shimano shift feel and can't wait for the 2014 sram gear, i'd get the 9000. the one thing i wouldn't do is buy any 10sp group. you're shelling out a lot of money for one of those top shelf groups so there's no compelling reason not to embrace the 11 cogs. for better or worse, the market is clearly headed in that direction.

[bluesea]

Shimano 9000 doesn't have a cassette I'd be interested in. My options are 2013 Red if I went back to SRAM, or 9000 with Campy cassettes.

[sw3759]

"Shimano 9000 doesn't have a cassette I'd be interested in."

curious as to your reasoning.i feel the same way about sram 11 simply because i refuse to buy any more cassettes with an 11 tooth cog which is a waste to me and they don't appear to offer any cassette without an 11.red or force
even running a compact in Colorado i never needed an 11 tooth cog when the descent speed is pushing 45-55mph i'm tucked in not pushing a massive gear into the wind
the 12-25 11 speed is the perfect all around cassette in my opinion

[HillDancer]

In my experience an 11 tooth cassette sprocket is useful. Of course much depends on a person's fitness level, environment, and load, but I find an 11t rear sprocket has added value when paired with a 49T, 48T or 46T big ring. A sub 50T big ring provides a less abrupt change between small and big ring when shifting up front, requiring fewer compensating shifts on the cassette to match cadence, and the 11t retains high gearing. While true it is more efficient to be in a tuck than pedaling a certain speeds, I find it less fatiguing to pedal with effort when riding over rough pavement at high speed, than static hovering over the saddle using the arms and legs for suspension. Also, I think all riders have experienced ballistic leg shock when beginning the spin following a descent in a high gear which is a bit lower than speed dictates; here's where an extra high gear comes in handy too.

On my bike, gear inches are:
53/12 - 115.1
52/12 - 112.9
50/12 - 108.6
49/11 - 116.1
48/11 - 113.7
46/11 - 109.0

I currently use a 49/11 high gear combo BTW.

[justinrchan]

And I told you I would get handed my divorce papers if that happened!
Maybe you should have charged me less for the bike so I could use some of the money for Dura Ace Di2!

Justin, I told you , go ride DI2. Your decision will be made:banana:

[justinrchan]

I'm liking this idea. Maybe I wait for Force 22 and save the $ to buy a new dedicated wheelset. Althoght it will pain me not to have the new bike built up until the summer when Force and Red 22 are available.

if it were me, i'd pass on all them and get the new 11sp sram force. looks loads better than the red. with the money saved, you could get some pretty pimp wheels to go with it if you just have to spend it.

fwiw, i have 10sp sram red on one bike and 9000 on another. the 11sp DA was a return to shimano for me, and tho i cannot fault 9000 in any respect whatsoever, i prefer the more positive shifting action of sram so i'll probably go back to sram once they release the 11sp stuff.

if you like the shimano shift feel and can't wait for the 2014 sram gear, i'd get the 9000. the one thing i wouldn't do is buy any 10sp group. you're shelling out a lot of money for one of those top shelf groups so there's no compelling reason not to embrace the 11 cogs. for better or worse, the market is clearly headed in that direction.

[T.J.]

Check your email Justin

[justinrchan]

Dude - nice!!

Check your email Justin

[bluesea]

"Shimano 9000 doesn't have a cassette I'd be interested in."

curious as to your reasoning.i feel the same way about sram 11 simply because i refuse to buy any more cassettes with an 11 tooth cog which is a waste to me and they don't appear to offer any cassette without an 11.red or force
even running a compact in Colorado i never needed an 11 tooth cog when the descent speed is pushing 45-55mph i'm tucked in not pushing a massive gear into the wind
the 12-25 11 speed is the perfect all around cassette in my opinion



Agree on your take on the 12-25, but I want a cassette that extends higher like a 12-27, not higher/lower like the 11-28.

[sw3759]

Bluesea,i assume you already know they make do a 12-28.i would think the 12-28 9000 cassette would certainly fit that need unless you want a wider range than that.i realize Ti cogs isnt the best choice for everyday use but until all steel cassettes become available in the next generation of ultegra 11 i'll live with it.

[willum44]

For what it's worth. When Shaun Kelly was asked if he rode a Di on his current road bike, he said NO, I'm just a leisure rider, not a racer !!!!!

I say who needs 11 speeds. I run 10spd Record. Upgrade the wheels, every time.

Cheers
Bill

[justinrchan]

The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards 2013 Red. Not sure if I want the hassle (more like the expense) of getting a new wheelset.

[bluesea]

Bluesea,i assume you already know they make do a 12-28.i would think the 12-28 9000 cassette would certainly fit that need unless you want a wider range than that.i realize Ti cogs isnt the best choice for everyday use but until all steel cassettes become available in the next generation of ultegra 11 i'll live with it.



No, I didn't know. Thanks for the heads up! Have decided when the time comes, I can live with ti cassettes. I'm riding my first Shimano road group through the summer, so we'll see where that goes. :)

[Chris]

For what it's worth. When Shaun Kelly was asked if he rode a Di on his current road bike, he said NO, I'm just a leisure rider, not a racer !!!!!

I say who needs 11 speeds. I run 10spd Record. Upgrade the wheels, every time.

Cheers
Bill

There are some people who deserve to have their names spelled correctly every single time. Jesus, Mohammed, Gandhi and SEAN Kelly. You have been advised.

P.S. Sacha White is a close 5th...