OT: Anyone following the run up to the America's Cup? (pic heavy)

[bluesea]

http://imageshack.us/a/img259/779/cc130322317.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/3112/22366455084098826480958.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/6720/or3o.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/9126/or2u.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/1994/gg12sfooct09417.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img707/56/58150050200545650317268.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/2889/48304742967667373605118.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img401/9276/28462942359682434403688.jpg

[Louis]

Is that "flip" (or whatever they call that type of accident) recent, or is it the incident they had a few months ago?

Those are incredible boats, insanely fast.

[bluesea]

Yup, that's the first and only pitchpole--so far. :cool:

[Louis]

Yup, that's the first and only pitchpole--so far. :cool:

I remember watching the video - it was amazing how quickly things got away from them. Apparently not a whole lot of inherent stability in those.

[bluesea]

One would like to say its like an F1 because they must have a crazy power to weight ratio , but cars don't deal with the vagaries of wind and swells.

[oldpotatoe]

One would like to say its like an F1 because they must have a crazy power to weight ratio , but cars don't deal with the vagaries of wind and swells.

Things have changed since from when I was in newport at Naval War College in
1983...when the Aussie boat beat the US for the first time..all about the keel..never saw so many drunk Aussies even in Australia.

[jghall]

Great pics.

[mike p]

I know nothing at all about sailing but to me it's one of the most beautiful sports out there! I'd love to go for a ride on one of those things! Thanks for the pic's.

Mike

[bluesea]

Things have changed since from when I was in newport at Naval War College in
1983...when the Aussie boat beat the US for the first time..all about the keel..never saw so many drunk Aussies even in Australia.



I've spent some time on one of the American 12 Meter boats, that went down under to bring the Cup back after it was set up for tourist duty. Its like the whole crew could step onto the boat at the same time, and it wouldn't even rock, it was so heavy. They were a design from the past, even back then.

I'd thought you'd get a kick out of these pics, as these boats are a little closer to a Phantom than a GP car.:beer:

[firerescuefin]

Damn you Bluesea...I am always leary of the "Cup", because I sit in front of the TV for hours at a time trying to sell to anyone who will listen how intersting and fascinating the tactics are...and I am enamored by the development of the technology and design..whether 12M, AC boats, or the current line.....I too think F1. I remember being in junior high, sitting up till 2-3 in the morning watching Stars and Stripes defeat the contenders and then the Aussies in 87

[bluesea]

^ Lol, I sat at the bar night after night watching those races. Beautiful.

[pdmtong]

I went to the AC45 races...will def be there as much as possible for the 72s. it is unreal how fast the 45s were. we go right from amgen tour of california into americas cup.....oh yea!

[enr1co]

Local news in SF coverage has been more of the neighborhood near the Americas Cup outdoor concert venue complaining of potential noise and traffic or politics of who is covering costs for the event - hardly any news or content of the race itself.

[saf-t]

At the risk of appearing like a Luddite, I have to admit that I really miss watching the 12M boats. As a small boat racer, there's just something about fabric sails and mono hulls that's missing in the current AC boats.....

[rnhood]

The 12M boats were beautiful on the water, and were still "boats" in the classic sense. These catamaran type boats are fast and furious, and require great skill and knowledge, but just don't quite create the same drama imho. Nevertheless, I would love to go to SF bay during the cup and climb up on the hills with a good pair of binoculars.

I raced a J24 for years but finally gave it up when a suit of sails was $3000. And that was in the mid 80's. No telling what a suit would cost today. The boats are just too expensive to own. Ownership cost is why sailing in general fell off so much in popularity in the latter 80's. Best thing to do now is crew.

[MattTuck]

The 12M boats were beautiful on the water, and were still "boats" in the classic sense. These catamaran type boats are fast and furious, and require great skill and knowledge, but just don't quite create the same drama imho. Nevertheless, I would love to go to SF bay during the cup and climb up on the hills with a good pair of binoculars.

I raced a J24 for years but finally gave it up when a suit of sails was $3000. And that was in the mid 80's. No telling what a suit would cost today. The boats are just too expensive to own. Ownership cost is why sailing in general fell off so much in popularity in the latter 80's. Best thing to do now is crew.

Is there a lesson to be learned here for cycling?

[bluesea]

The 12M boats were beautiful on the water, and were still "boats" in the classic sense. These catamaran type boats are fast and furious, and require great skill and knowledge, but just don't quite create the same drama imho. Nevertheless, I would love to go to SF bay during the cup and climb up on the hills with a good pair of binoculars.

I raced a J24 for years but finally gave it up when a suit of sails was $3000. And that was in the mid 80's. No telling what a suit would cost today. The boats are just too expensive to own. Ownership cost is why sailing in general fell off so much in popularity in the latter 80's. Best thing to do now is crew.

Agree. I've also spent a number of years in J24s--we had a great fleet for such a small venue. Brutal boats forward of the traveler, for Hawaiian conditions I'll tell ya.

We did the Lahaina-Honolulu race in the J one year, and had the rudder come loose surfing down the slot between Molokai-Lanai in a 25-30kt breeze. Instant round down in *big* swells. The gudgeon finally broke entering the Molokai Channel, and we got home with the blade up only, steering with a canvas bucket.





At the risk of appearing like a Luddite, I have to admit that I really miss watching the 12M boats. As a small boat racer, there's just something about fabric sails and mono hulls that's missing in the current AC boats.....

Yeah but look at the twist in Oracle's wing. :eek: I get you though, my pulse quickens at the thought of a brand new suit of 3DL's. Those days seem to be over, unfortunately.



I'm very envious of those who call the Bay Area home, with their world class cycling and yacht racing venues, and not to mention having a wonderful symphony.

[TPetsch]

Those are great pictures, thanks for sharing. As a result of looking at your Pics I became interested & did a little searching and came up with these interesting videos to add. Really fascinating stuff, sailboats have really become high tech.

Advanced sailing boat breaks speed record in San Francisco:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/9517226/Advanced-sailing-boat-breaks-speed-record-in-San-Francisco.html

The Plymouth Capsize Club:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvk4D-GlUgE&list=PL97C54899D7D7B190&index=7

ORACLE TEAM USA "17" Capsize - The Whole Story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRW21FubyY4

[firerescuefin]

Why the movement from one class of boats to another...has that been part of the tradition?

[Len J]

I've raced most of my life.

I hate the new boats......to me it's more about technology than tactics. Put two crews in an equally fitted boat and see who are the better sailors.

Len.

Ps. Get off my lawn:)

Great pics BTW, thanks for sailing.

[Louis]

I think they're just trying to go faster, so in a sense that is part of tradition, but the true traditionalists would probably not recognize the cats as "real" Amerirca's Cup boats.

[eddief]

where exactly are the Zertz?

[enr1co]

I hate the new boats......to me it's more about technology than tactics. Put two crews in an equally fitted boat and see who are the better sailors.



The new technolgy boats are slick looking but +100 on Len's comment.

[saf-t]

Put two crews in an equally fitted boat and see who are the better sailors.


This.

[Louis]

On the other hand, if a sport isn't careful all the races end up being done on technology that's 100 yrs old and the sport stagnates. You have to have some sort of balance between technical progress and rewarding the skills of the guys actually doing the racing.

[jh_on_the_cape]

At the risk of appearing like a Luddite, I have to admit that I really miss watching the 12M boats. As a small boat racer, there's just something about fabric sails and mono hulls that's missing in the current AC boats.....

This is what most people think. Now it's just another Red Bull sport.

[Llewellyn]

During the 1983 series, every Aussie was an armchair sailor and you'd have thought that there was nothing else happening in the world.

But once we lost the America's Cup in 1987, it barely even gets a mention on the telly here these days.

:rolleyes:

[firerescuefin]

I'm so far out of my lane (Im the equivalent of the guy that only watches the tdf each year)...but I enjoy the technology (although I am not a fan of the current class of boat). I enjoy the designers pushing the envelope, developing a boat that is good for certain conditions...yet crappy or less than optimal in others. Len...does the development/design of the boat appeal to you at all?

Geoff


I've raced most of my life.

I hate the new boats......to me it's more about technology than tactics. Put two crews in an equally fitted boat and see who are the better sailors.

Len.

Ps. Get off my lawn:)

Great pics BTW, thanks for sailing.

[jh_on_the_cape]

I'm so far out of my lane (Im the equivalent of the guy that only watches the tdf each year)...but I enjoy the technology (although I am not a fan of the current class of boat). I enjoy the designers pushing the envelope, developing a boat that is good for certain conditions...yet crappy or less than optimal in others. Len...does the development/design of the boat appeal to you at all?

Geoff

All classes of boats (or race cars or UCI bikes) have parameters that must be followed.
The TdF bikes are cool because you will see and ride that stuff eventually as it trickles down to you. But there are rules as to what you can ride.
The current class of boat has nothing to do with what people are out there sailing.

Would it be interesting to have something like the TdF but everyone rides the exact same bike? Sure, but we all love the bikes. There is a balance to be struck and AC has gone way overboard on tech to the point of being irrelevant to the passionate sailor.

[oldpotatoe]

I've spent some time on one of the American 12 Meter boats, that went down under to bring the Cup back after it was set up for tourist duty. Its like the whole crew could step onto the boat at the same time, and it wouldn't even rock, it was so heavy. They were a design from the past, even back then.

I'd thought you'd get a kick out of these pics, as these boats are a little closer to a Phantom than a GP car.:beer:

Fascinating technology..bet it isn't very expensive either-Dooohh!!

More like F-22 type stuff..the Phantom used brute force to fly, not much technology, altho one of the prettiest jets there ever was, IMHO.

Onboard Midway-Maru(CV-41) when I was part of the 'Overseas Family Separation Program", wife lived in Japan, I was gone a ot.

Nov 1980-June-1983 *****, that might be me in that jet....

[Len J]

I'm so far out of my lane (Im the equivalent of the guy that only watches the tdf each year)...but I enjoy the technology (although I am not a fan of the current class of boat). I enjoy the designers pushing the envelope, developing a boat that is good for certain conditions...yet crappy or less than optimal in others. Len...does the development/design of the boat appeal to you at all?

Geoff

The tech is fascinating. Eventually, some of it will translate down to the general racing market....but most of it won't.

To me, racing High Tech Catamarans is so dramatically different from racing single hull boats that it is almost a different sport. I loved the tactics and teamwork on the single hulls.

While the tech mattered in the single hull series, it wasn't the primary focus.....tactics were. I can understand how the speed and the possible overturns are exiting for the general public to watch, to me, something of the tactics have been lost.

I'll watch, but I suspect, I won't enjoy it as much.

Len

[enr1co]

Fascinating technology..bet it isn't very expensive either-Dooohh!!

More like F-22 type stuff..the Phantom used brute force to fly, not much technology, altho one of the prettiest jets there ever was, IMHO.

Onboard Midway-Maru(CV-41) when I was part of the 'Overseas Family Separation Program", wife lived in Japan, I was gone a ot.

Nov 1980-June-1983 *****, that might be me in that jet....

GO NAVY! Great pic oldpotatoe!

I remember the awesome sight of the Midway during our weekend Alameda NAS exchange and commisary runs - fun Navy brat memories back in the day... :)

[Rada]

I used to love watching the 12M class races. My interest waned until the AC became a bad joke in 2009, now I could care less about it. It is a shame as it was such a beautiful sport.

[merlinmurph]

As a guy that used to race a bit and spent some time watching the Cup races, I much prefer using monohulls for the Cup. The multihulls are cool, I just don't want them for Cup racing. Guess I'm just an old guy.

In '87, I watched the Cup races while on a ski vacation at Vail. There was a bar with an Aussie bartender that let some people stay after closing time to watch the races. The skiing wasn't any good anyway.....

Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[MattTuck]

Why the movement from one class of boats to another...has that been part of the tradition?

I understood it to be a tradition that the winner (current holder of the title) specifies the rules and location of the next race....

If another team won, they could change it back to a traditional design.

[enr1co]

I'm very envious of those who call the Bay Area home, with their world class cycling and yacht racing venues, and not to mention having a wonderful symphony.

When we finally move back to your hood, I will miss the varied cycling routes but not much more :)

[fuzzalow]

More like F-22 type stuff..the Phantom used brute force to fly, not much technology, altho one of the prettiest jets there ever was, IMHO.

Onboard Midway-Maru(CV-41) when I was part of the 'Overseas Family Separation Program", wife lived in Japan, I was gone a ot.

Nov 1980-June-1983 *****, that might be me in that jet....

Very apt analogy on the use of brut force to make speed. The old 12-meter boats had the equivalent of an F-4 under the waterline compared to the hull fluid displacement on a cat. Brute force in pushing aside all that water. And those F-4 Phantoms were also brutes. But I cannot imagine a better sight or sound than those bad a$$ brutes headed your way in battle to reign whoop on the bad guys.

As a civilian, I have never heard a Pratt & Whitney at full roar, but even at maybe 1/4 throttle, holy crap those things are loud! During July 4th week, the US Navy used to anchor the USS John F. Kennedy in NY Harbor. I worked on the 34th floor of an office tower in lower Manhattan and experienced 4 F-14s in formation fly past the window as they headed up the Hudson. As slow as they were flying, the wings were not extended but swept back about halfway. Less than 75 meters separation, that couldn't have been to regulation!

[Lanterne Rouge]

Like a lot of people here I used to race J24's and I still watch the Americas Cup and I'm probably going to head up to RI to watch some racing this year.

Also the crews have amazing tekkers.

[bluesea]

When we finally move back to your hood, I will miss the varied cycling routes but not much more :)


You'll be closer to Haleakala. ;)

[William]

.... I'm probably going to head up to RI to watch some racing this year.




"Come out to the coast, we'll get together (and ride), have a few laughs."

If you make it up here.:)






William

[Lanterne Rouge]

"Come out to the coast, we'll get together (and ride), have a few laughs."

If you make it up here.:)






William

Sounds like a plan. I'm toying with the idea of riding up from NYC. Heading up Lond Island, getting the ferry across and riding the balance the following day.

I'll PM you with my details.

[pdmtong]

death

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/artemis-americas-cup-crashes-crewman-injured/nXmrn/?hpt=hp_t2

[bluesea]

Thanks for the heads up. Sad...

[plugkev]

Amazing ... I guess I did not realize sailing was that dangerous

Additionally amazing that they can wreck a boat like that in practice

I assume Sweden is now out of the race in July

Is SF considered a difficult location for the cup?

[Louis]

I'd say those guys are pushing the envelope a bit too hard.

[bobswire]

The Oracle was out there today, very high winds. It was too far from me to get a decent pic with my cell camera.
In the first photo I was just taking a pic of my bike with bridge in the background,the Oracle can barley seen all the way to the right near the top.
The second photo you can see it,it was really making knots, It take that long for it to appear between when I first took the first photo then the second.

http://i40.tinypic.com/99hxsy.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2cehzq.jpg

[Ardan MacNessa]

I'd say those guys are pushing the envelope a bit too hard.
The entire notion of sailing pushes an envelop [in of itself]. It's my first love and sole passion. Cycling comes second. You study sailing and you're studying how the world was founded and conquered.

I love cats, they're pretty seaworthy but I'm a sloop kind'a guy. I spent a lot of time on a genoa as a child. I will retire on the water.

Sad about Andrew Simpson.

Here's the AC45 in pitchpole (http://youtu.be/HjwY6O2zE0E).

[InspectorGadget]

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/9126/or2u.jpg

Thanks fo sharing.

[bluesea]

The usual lines of communications seem to be pretty busy right now, so I'll just wait it out for official reports as to the cause of failure. Otoh looking at local wind and sea conditions, I suspect equipment failure over boat handling.

[Louis]

How many teams are out there practicing? I think I heard 4. This is "big incident" #2. That means half the teams have had big-time problems.

I would think they would be even more aggressive when actually racing, unless they restrict the conditions in which they are allowed to race. (No race today, the wind speed is above 10 kts !!!) This could be rough.

[bluesea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0oViZ0vSno

[bluesea]

First race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZO3mvmHUrBs

[tiretrax]

Is there tv coverage this year? I have enjoyed watching in the past on NBCSN, but there's been no mention of it.

Top Gear had a great spot recently - racing a similar boat up the New Zealand coast against a car. I think I'd prefer to go by car.

[oldpotatoe]

Is there tv coverage this year? I have enjoyed watching in the past on NBCSN, but there's been no mention of it.

Top Gear had a great spot recently - racing a similar boat up the New Zealand coast against a car. I think I'd prefer to go by car.

I don't know diddly about sailing but did the boats et a LOT larger from 2012 to 2013?

Video of the thing whizzing across SF bay, amazing, when the boat can go faster than the wind is blowing..bet they aren't very expensive(??)

Are they up their with unlimited air racing and F1? In terms of $?