10sp Rear Shifting - Centaur v Chorus

[Dromen]

Have a couple bikes with 10sp Centaur RDs/shifters and just started riding a bike with 10sp Chorus RD/shifters. Noticable improvements in the smoothness and "exactness" of the shifting from top to the bottom of the cassette. Is this true? OR Is it the set up/frame variance/other?

FYI - Same guy set up all 3. All newer stuff - Post 2005?.

Just wondering.

[christian]

Random variation, I think. Which 10-speed Campagnolo combination of shifters and derailleurs in my house seems to have little to do with the group:

In our house the rear shifting performance would go as follows:

1) Allez (Centaur shifters/Centaur rd)
2) Parlee (Record shifters/Chorus rd) (I've only test ridden this bike - it's my wife's.)
3) Zanconato (Centaur shifters/Mirage 9sp rd)
4) Colnago (Chorus shifters/Record rd)

#1, #3, #4 were set up by me. #2 by one of the acknowledged best mechanics on the East Coast. Mind you, these bikes all shift very well; we're talking about minute differences.

BTW, that Mirage 9sp derailleur actually weighs almost twice what a Record derailleur weighs!

[christian]

I am going to put a bigger rear loop on the Colnago, FWIW. I think that's worth experimenting with.

[carpediemracing]

Have a couple bikes with 10sp Centaur RDs/shifters and just started riding a bike with 10sp Chorus RD/shifters. Noticable improvements in the smoothness and "exactness" of the shifting from top to the bottom of the cassette. Is this true? OR Is it the set up/frame variance/other?

FYI - Same guy set up all 3. All newer stuff - Post 2005?.

Just wondering.

I have Centaur, Veloce, Chorus, and Record 10s shifters, similar generations mid-late 2000s, at one point all set up the same with the Ergo cables/housing except one bike had Shimano housing (tandem with Shimano 9s drivetrain). I think they feel the same given the same set up.

When I went to Nokons on my single bikes it radically affected shifting feel for the better - with the narrow gear cables (1.1mm?) and White Lightning for cable lube the rear shifter feels like it's electric. Or like I forgot to install the actual cable, i.e. it feels like you're dry shifting the shifter. Front der is still a front, the spring makes for high resistance.

If you switched the shifters I wouldn't be able to tell except for the different amounts of wear on each one. I even switched out the Veloce/Centaur (on the tandem) thinking it would make a difference but it was a waste of time.

[shinomaster]

It's probably how they are adjusted or the versions. Later chorus (QS) will shift better than early 02 centaur for example . At one point I had record 10, chorus 10 and centaur 10 on all my bikes from 02-03, and they all worked pretty much the same- except for the record which didn't shift as well as the chorus ironically.. My Ultrashift Centaur group from 2010 is better than all of them imho.

[Ralph]

There are so many variables in quality and age of cable housing, how cut, how housing lubed, cable guides, size of loop, how good you are at adjusting.....initially and after a few rides, how many links in chain, chain itself....new or well used, how well lubed, and on and on, and on. I have used a short cage mid 2000's Chorus RD and a mid 2000's Centaur RD, with same other components, and can't tell any difference.

[shinomaster]

Also, I'm pretty sure that the overall design of these rear derailleurs didn't change unlike the front derailleurs, and they all shared the same geometry. They differences were in the ti bolts and lightening cut-outs etc.

[tmf]

I am going to put a bigger rear loop on the Colnago, FWIW. I think that's worth experimenting with.

Is the current housing loop the standard length that comes with a Campy cable set or shorter?

[christian]

Is the current housing loop the standard length that comes with a Campy cable set or shorter?Standard, but Jagwire.

[thwart]

I'd agree that across the line, the 10 spd Campy ergos (at least pre 2008) have a shifting feel that is essentially identical. Only Record and Chorus have ball bearings, the others don't---yet you'd be hard pressed to feel that, at least IME.

At the same time, the drivetrain seems to be most smooth and cohesive after at least a few hundred miles of use...

Could that be what you're 'feeling'?

[christian]

Well, I guess the other possbility is that the Centaur g-spring is starting to get worn. Then you get sloppier "paddle" action, even if the shifting itself is usually ok.

[ultraman6970]

I have used record, centaur and veloce rds ok?

all of those with record brifters and the only difference is weight and maybe how quick the gear move from the 15 to the 13 for example, the reason is the return spring, the return spring in the record is way stronger than in the lower end versions and that makes a hudge impact because even if the cable has kinks the record group will shift no matter what, this is when you guys probably remember threads about fine tunning veloce and stuff.

Smoothness? you wont feel it, I never bother to swap a veloce rd i have because I never felt loss of performance using it, campagnolo rd are good.

[christian]

the return spring in the record is way stronger than in the lower end versions and that makes a hudge impact
I only (randomly) looked at 2005 spare parts catalog, but Record, Chorus, Centaur, Centaur Century Gray, Veloce, Veloce 9, Mirage 9, and Xenon 9 all share the same rear derailleur return spring - RD-RE008.

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/spares05_A.pdf

Can check other years here: http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/doc/doccatid_3.jsp

[christian]

Centaur and Chorus 2005, as an example - the cable pinch washer and cages are the only differences. Otherwise every part is the same.

[ultraman6970]

I know that but, do you actually have a record and a veloce (same era) with you?? if you do just pull them up and down with one finger and you will notice right away how strong the record is able to pull compared with the other one.

Never understood why the difference and why the return spring part number is the same, doesnt make any sense.

Cambio y fuera.

[Dromen]

I'd agree that across the line, the 10 spd Campy ergos (at least pre 2008) have a shifting feel that is essentially identical. Only Record and Chorus have ball bearings, the others don't---yet you'd be hard pressed to feel that, at least IME.

At the same time, the drivetrain seems to be most smooth and cohesive after at least a few hundred miles of use...

Could that be what you're 'feeling'?

All have plenty o' miles. One centaur it's from the Masi. The centaurs are lovely.... for some reason the chorus is "slightly lovelier".

[VTCaraco]

I ride both sets in a few different iterations.
The Chorus is indeed lovely.
When riding the Centaur, I can't find any dissatisfaction at all. In fact, it makes me think of the point of diminishing return. And then I get on my Chorus-equipped bike and think, "wow, this IS nicer". But when I return to the Centaur-bike, I think, "huh, this is really nice, too".

I know, I know. A highly technical, nuanced review which may be hard to understand without a certain sophistication, but that's my sense.

In a more pragmatic sense, the Chorus is more sublime/smoother ~ more Shimano like; while my Centaur has a more mechanical feel (that I like).

[christian]

I know that but, do you actually have a record and a veloce (same era) with you??I did this last night out of curiosity; I can't tell any difference whatsoever between the spring rate in the following four derailleurs:

- 2008 Chorus mid-cage carbon
- 2008 Record short-cage carbon
- 2006 Centaur short-cage alloy
- ~2005 Mirage 9sp mid-cage alloy

They're all exactly the same in terms of spring tension. Or at least any differences are indistinguishable without measuring instruments.

[oldpotatoe]

I have used record, centaur and veloce rds ok?

all of those with record brifters and the only difference is weight and maybe how quick the gear move from the 15 to the 13 for example, the reason is the return spring, the return spring in the record is way stronger than in the lower end versions and that makes a hudge impact because even if the cable has kinks the record group will shift no matter what, this is when you guys probably remember threads about fine tunning veloce and stuff.

Smoothness? you wont feel it, I never bother to swap a veloce rd i have because I never felt loss of performance using it, campagnolo rd are good.

Same RD return spring in all the Rders, even today. These levers and Rders only differed in materials, not design and not in small bits like springs, pulley wheels, etc. Until 2007/8 when Centaur and Veloce became ala Xenon and then onto 2009. Ultrashift which changed a lot in the levers.