A Wheel Upgrade?

[metalheart]

I have had my new bike since 12/6/2011 -- a Holland Exogrid with Ultegra Di2 and Dt swiss rims (415) and hubs (240s).

I am in the mood for an alternate set of wheels. I ride mostly 30-50 miles at at time, 150-200 a week, depending on weather, and sometimes the roads are rough and sometimes relatively smooth MUP. The Dura Ace c24 clinchers seem like an interesting option, but my LBS suggested HED Belgiums, no hubs specified. Not really interested in carbon unless there is some specific reason to do so ... I weigh 195, headed toward 189.

Thanks

pa: I enjoy fast descents and knowing my wheels are up to the job of holding my prodigious frame is important

[eddief]

What are you looking to do other than lighten your wallet? Sounds like all those wheelsets are in the 1500 gram or more range and not sure you will be able to appreciate much difference in those sets. On the other hand, those DA wheels will look real good.

New Hed Belgiums look cool, but not so light:

http://www.hedcycling.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=118&idcategory=6

[tv_vt]

Along with HED Belgiums, consider the new DT RR440 rim. Comes in asymmetrical for rear wheel builds, too. I really like this rim! More than the HED Belgiums.

Get some nice 32H hubs, good spokes, a good builder (RT Wheelcraft and Wheelbuilder come to mind), and you're good to go.

[metalheart]

There are numerous ways to lighten my wallet and I am not opposed to that as long as there is some benefit or difference .... I am VERY happy with my my bike and wheels, but just looking for something that MIGHT provide a different/alternative ride experience, especially up and down hills ....

[reggiebaseball]

these options seem like lateral moves
your rims and hubs are nice already, reasonably light.

What tires are you running, how about splurging on rubber instead of changing the rims.

For $12 you could get a new 36 tooth star ratchet for your DT hubs, it shaves 10 inconsequential grams, but reduces the rotational degrees to engagement by 50%- which makes you mentally faster! And it gives you twice as many angry bees when coasting.

[false_Aest]

Like others said, your wheels are nice and the moves you're thinking of seem lateral.

That said, I've completely fallen in love with the quietness that comes with D.A. hubs. The 9000 series are only ~40g heaver that R45s.

If you were up for some experimentation, I'd lace some Velocity Escapes to 9000s and try some tubulars. Could even go with CX-Rays or Aerolites.

[metalheart]

Quiet hubs are a thing of beauty ... the 240s do not bother me, although if they were more quiet, that would add to my ride experience. Buzzing bees on a fast descent is not pleasing for me.

A lateral move is the wrong move. I am happy with how my wheels and tires ride (use 4000s for 3 seasons and Conti 4 seasons in winter), just looking for something that might be a change of pace ... my riding partners use Firecrest 303s, 404's, 101s and other assorted carbine whizzers. Not for me, unless there is some benefit I can understand, other than they look very nice. I am very happy with everything on my bike and perhaps I should rejoice in that, including my wheels!

[reggiebaseball]

I would rejoice in the knowledge that you are smarter than your friends. :)

[eddief]

with slightly lower pressure would be a nice change.

[Ken Robb]

There are numerous ways to lighten my wallet and I am not opposed to that as long as there is some benefit or difference .... I am VERY happy with my my bike and wheels, but just looking for something that MIGHT provide a different/alternative ride experience, especially up and down hills ....
I think I would spend the $$ on good post-ride massages to improve my performance.:banana:

[fogrider]

it would help to know what hills you're riding...I'm in san francisco and when I go north, the hills are tight and technical. When I go south the descents are fast and sweeping.

I have moderately light wheels (about 1500 grams) on my daily ride (ok I only get out twice during the week) but on the weekend, I take out my carbon tubies. light rims spin up fast! a little weight makes a lot of difference at the rims and tires. 50 grams at the hub matters little, but light rims and tires spin up like you wouldn't believe. Also tubulars are going to handle great!

also by going from riding "training" wheels to super fast wheels will make a difference! it feels like no matter how fast I'm going, I can crank out another 5 mph without a big effort.

and if your descents are fast and sweeping and you want speed, you want something aero but not too deep so cross winds won't affect control.

[oldpotatoe]

There are numerous ways to lighten my wallet and I am not opposed to that as long as there is some benefit or difference .... I am VERY happy with my my bike and wheels, but just looking for something that MIGHT provide a different/alternative ride experience, especially up and down hills ....

Then ya need a set of tubualrs. Since not a fan of carbon, find somebody who can lace some Nemesis or F20 to shimano 9000 hubs..use skinny spokes in the front and LH side rear..get some nice Vittoria CX tubulars and ...bob's yer uncle.

http://www.rtwheelcraft.com/products/rim_detail_ambrosio.html

[christian]

I agree with the tubular adherents. I do the same kind of riding you do and for "sportive" riding of that type, a nice fat tubular on a moderate-weight wheelset will be great. At 190 lbs, I'd go ahead and get Nemesis rims and build them as Peter specified. At 160 lbs, myself, I'm tempted to try some Velocity Escapes. I already have two pair of Nemesis wheels and a set of Reflex wheels.

[cbratina]

The trend with the Pro's has been to 25c tires with wider rims for their aerodynamic advantage. At your weight, you should use at least 25c tires, and should consider a 28c on the rear (Vittoria Pave?). Check out the Pacenti SL23, Velocity A23, and HED C2 rims as they are 23-24 mm wide. They will improve the aerodynamics and also provide a more comfortable ride. If you are a smooth spinner as opposed to a masher, you can use 28 spokes front and 32 spokes rear reliably with these rims. Otherwise you can consider 32 spokes front and 36 spokes rear, though this will limit your rim choice.

I build all of my own wheels and have been running 32 spoke front/36 spoke rear Velocity Deep Vs on our tandem carrying 300 lbs of riders, and have cycle toured across Europe with them. I would switch to the Pacenti SL23 or HED C2 if I could get one in a 36 hole.

[bostondrunk]

Then ya need a set of tubualrs. Since not a fan of carbon, find somebody who can lace some Nemesis or F20 to shimano 9000 hubs..use skinny spokes in the front and LH side rear..get some nice Vittoria CX tubulars and ...bob's yer uncle.

http://www.rtwheelcraft.com/products/rim_detail_ambrosio.html

What this expert said.
I'd also consider carbon. You are saying you want something different. Get some Easton EC90 Aero's. You can typically find a pair for between 1000-1300 if you shop around (Nashbar, etc). Or if you want to stick with shallow rim, the EC90 SLX.
As others have said, any alloy clincher wheelset will likely feel the same as your current set.

[oldpotatoe]

The trend with the Pro's has been to 25c tires with wider rims for their aerodynamic advantage. At your weight, you should use at least 25c tires, and should consider a 28c on the rear (Vittoria Pave?). Check out the Pacenti SL23, Velocity A23, and HED C2 rims as they are 23-24 mm wide. They will improve the aerodynamics and also provide a more comfortable ride. If you are a smooth spinner as opposed to a masher, you can use 28 spokes front and 32 spokes rear reliably with these rims. Otherwise you can consider 32 spokes front and 36 spokes rear, though this will limit your rim choice.

I build all of my own wheels and have been running 32 spoke front/36 spoke rear Velocity Deep Vs on our tandem carrying 300 lbs of riders, and have cycle toured across Europe with them. I would switch to the Pacenti SL23 or HED C2 if I could get one in a 36 hole.

I appreciate what you are saying about the 'wider rim and fatter tire' gig but Pros, by and large, race on tubulars. Yes, yes, there are a dew teams where sponsorship money 'encourages' some clincher and tubeless use but the A23/HED/H+Son wide rim and 25/28 is the thing of enthusiasts, etc, not the 'Pros.

BTW-wider tubular rims are not new..been around for over 2 decades when the likes of Campagnolo and Mavic both made 22mm wide tubular rims.

[metalheart]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions .... I currently ride 25mm tires and my bike was built to handle 28s. Current wheels have 32 spokes rear and 28 front, so I think I am ok with that type of setup.

The tubular option may be the one to offer a different ride experience, so I am going to check that out. A riding buddy who does not have carbon rims recently switched to tubulars on HED Belgium rims with 25mm IRB (?) tires that are made in Japan --- he says it is a comfy ride.

Most of the descents I no are not too technical, but you never know when you head out to the hills what will come up. The most usual climb and descent is a long grade, not too many switchbacks, and a fast ride down. Seems as if a tubular would do just fine for that type of riding ....

thanks again

[reggiebaseball]

What??
I didn't know tubulars were on the table...
sometimes it seems elitist to
suggest a "platform" change.


Of course you want tubulars!
Nemesis rims 32/32, nice quiet DA 7800 7850 or 7900 hubs

veloflex carbon tires. 23c or arenberg 25c, either is way smoother than
your current clinchers.

This wheelset will last a decade, take tons of abuse, and still provide the plushest ride available. You could get lighter but no better.


IRC is the Japanese tire mfg.
Veloflex is the best, made in Italy.
Vittoria is close, made in thailand.

[TPetsch]

Along with HED Belgiums, consider the new DT RR440 rim. Comes in asymmetrical for rear wheel builds, too. I really like this rim! More than the HED Belgiums.

Get some nice 32H hubs, good spokes, a good builder (RT Wheelcraft and Wheelbuilder come to mind), and you're good to go.


Yea, plus one on this:

I just had a set of the RR440's built up W/King R45 hubs. 32 hole front built up with Supercomp spokes 2cross and rear 32 asymmetrical with Supercomps on the NDS and Comps on the DS both sides 3cross, black anodized aluminum nipples all round. Came out to exactly 1600 grams for the set. I have heard that the anodizing process on aluminum nipples make them a smidge stronger than the basic non-anodized ones. I'm 215 pounds and these are solid as a rock, not a peep out of them no matter how hard I drive up an incline, no flex or brake rub detected and somewhat complaint feeling too. Also, DT swiss didn't jump in head first with the whole wide rim thing going overboard, they went to a nice middle average of 21mm outer diameter unlike the new SL23's @ 24mm which is really wide IMO, I don't really ride on crappy roads much.

[christian]

Nemesis rims 32/32, nice quiet DA 7800 7850 or 7900 hubsNOT 7800 hubs. They have the stupid taller spline body.

[beeatnik]

Get these:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2013-mavic-ksyrium-slr-clincher-wheelset-32351.41.1.html

You'll love them. Best all-around factory wheel, IMO. They also do wheel in car on bike accidents....

[eddief]

I am not a racer and don't know if you are. But what would this set do that any other 1500 gram set with good tires would not do? The price of those Mavics is about 3x any other decent or better 1500 gram hand built wheelset.

Get these:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2013-mavic-ksyrium-slr-clincher-wheelset-32351.41.1.html

You'll love them. Best all-around factory wheel, IMO. They also do wheel in car on bike accidents....

[christian]

Be less comfortable and more silly looking (opinion).

[oldpotatoe]

Get these:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2013-mavic-ksyrium-slr-clincher-wheelset-32351.41.1.html

You'll love them. Best all-around factory wheel, IMO. They also do wheel in car on bike accidents....

$1800?? 'all around factory wheel'??

Me no think so. IMHO. Many, many similar or better wheels for 1/2 or less of $1800..with better hubs, by far.

[oldpotatoe]

Yea, plus one on this:

I just had a set of the RR440's built up W/King R45 hubs. 32 hole front built up with Supercomp spokes 2cross and rear 32 asymmetrical with Supercomps on the NDS and Comps on the DS both sides 3cross, black anodized aluminum nipples all round. Came out to exactly 1600 grams for the set. I have heard that the anodizing process on aluminum nipples make them a smidge stronger than the basic non-anodized ones. I'm 215 pounds and these are solid as a rock, not a peep out of them no matter how hard I drive up an incline, no flex or brake rub detected and somewhat complaint feeling too. Also, DT swiss didn't jump in head first with the whole wide rim thing going overboard, they went to a nice middle average of 21mm outer diameter unlike the new SL23's @ 24mm which is really wide IMO, I don't really ride on crappy roads much.

Ok, OK, the wheelbuilder in me gotta ask..2 cross front rather than 3 cross..how come?

And I get the Supercomp NDS rear but it complicates this with 2 nipple ID on the rear.

Just asking..I know I am pretty conservative..just built and sent a Ultegra/440 wheelset to a guy with DT Comps all around, brass nipps.

[dustyrider]

just built and sent a Ultegra/440 wheelset to a guy with DT Comps all around, brass nipps.

What did you end up charging for that build spud, if you don't me asking?

I'm assuming 32 fr/r 3cross all around....?

[oldpotatoe]

What did you end up charging for that build spud, if you don't me asking?

I'm assuming 32 fr/r 3cross all around....?

Don't mind..I'm at home but the rims are $115 per, spokes are $90 per, labor I charge is $65 per...hubs are $165 per pair...$580 or there abouts...

32h, 3 cross, DT Comp spokes, brass nipps.

Really like DT in general and the 440(+OC) specifically. Wish they made more in 28h and 36h and a tubular tho.

[metalheart]

Update: I never did get another wheel set, but here is what happened. Shortly after my post in April I had a rim crack on a DT RR415 --- not the one pictured below). The wheelmaker replaced the RR415 with a new RR440.

However, I had a second RR415 with my preferred cassette (I originally bought two rear wheels with different cassettes) and used that wheel until yesterday when this second RR415 cracked as in the image below.

I have now put the RR440 on the rear with Michelin Pro4 25mm (they measure about 26.8mm at 110psi) and I still have the original RR415 on the front.

So, I can buy another RR440 as a second rear wheel and maybe also buy a RR440 for the front, or I can get a second wheel set that is different and just transfer the hub from the broken rim.

Any further thoughts about this? Thanks for reading my hand wringing.

I am a 195pounder plus or minus 5




http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/12209565256_a7a5edf4a9_c.jpg

[ergott]

A front built with the 415 is less likely to crack like that. I'd leave it alone unless it cracks.

[oldpotatoe]

Update: I never did get another wheel set, but here is what happened. Shortly after my post in April I had a rim crack on a DT RR415 --- not the one pictured below). The wheelmaker replaced the RR415 with a new RR440.

However, I had a second RR415 with my preferred cassette (I originally bought two rear wheels with different cassettes) and used that wheel until yesterday when this second RR415 cracked as in the image below.

I have now put the RR440 on the rear with Michelin Pro4 25mm (they measure about 26.8mm at 110psi) and I still have the original RR415 on the front.

So, I can buy another RR440 as a second rear wheel and maybe also buy a RR440 for the front, or I can get a second wheel set that is different and just transfer the hub from the broken rim.

Any further thoughts about this? Thanks for reading my hand wringing.

I am a 195pounder plus or minus 5




http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/12209565256_a7a5edf4a9_c.jpg

Do 440 all around, 'OC' rear I hope, 415 on the rear too light for you, IMHO.

[metalheart]

The rear 440 is OC .... I will probably ride the front 415 until there is an issue and also get another 440 OC rear for my alternate cassette. THANKS

[josephr]

Along with HED Belgiums, consider the new DT RR440 rim. Comes in asymmetrical for rear wheel builds, too. I really like this rim! More than the HED Belgiums.

Get some nice 32H hubs, good spokes, a good builder (RT Wheelcraft and Wheelbuilder come to mind), and you're good to go.

DT Swiss R23 Spline --- under $800 for the wheelset and ~1500g. 240s hubs.

Custom - RR440 with Ultegra hubs. I'm a big fan on DT Swiss's stuff.
Joe