Hincapie...the next chapter

[firerescuefin]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/04/news/hincapie-writing-a-memoir-opening-a-bed-and-breakfast-in-august_282057


I'll bite. Used to be a big fan.

Active participant, and complicit in the role of ruining people's lives (to include those that were "friends") in order to make his mark/cash.

When he counts the cost, wonder if it was worth it.

Big George...Don't go away mad...just go away:no:

[fiamme red]

Now that he's retired, he should finally get those hideous varicose veins removed.

[William]

I can only speak for myself: George's popularity with me went out the window with LanceGate. That said, good luck.







William

[ntb1001]

I've always liked Hincape...but I'm a bit tired of the guys who turned on Lance....he is pure evil...but they're all self righteous saints??
I think it's time to never hear from him & his partners anymore

[cfox]

When he counts the cost, wonder if it was worth it.



based on how comfortable and tranquil his life seems in retirement, I'd say a resounding YES, that to him, it was worth it. Eff off George

[tiretrax]

I am ambivalent about him. Even before the doping scandal broke open, he whined too much about not being in yellow for a day, not winning P-R, etc.

Good luck on that B&B thing, George. I hope you have some good retirement benefits to prop it up.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Was and will always be a Big George Fan!

If his clothes fit fat guys better it is all I would buy. If his B&B included flat land rides I would reserve my stay right now. May still consider a vacation there in hopes of seing his wife.:banana:

ATMO, after Lance he is the 2nd greatest american cyclist.

[christian]

ATMO, after Lance he is the 2nd greatest american cyclist.Ouch, damning with faint praise!

[cfox]

ATMO, after Lance he is the 2nd greatest american cyclist.

ha! thanks for the laugh

[enr1co]

Never a Hincapie fan since seeing his dirty riding tactics back in the Tour du Pont. Wouldnt be caught dead in any piece of clothing with his name on it.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

No mention of George's doping or suspension in that article....weird.

[firerescuefin]

No mention of George's doping or suspension in that article....weird.

This was one of the reader's comments....Made me laugh.

Whit Faulconer: Awkwaaaard business plan, come meet cycling history's biggest co-conspirator and avoid the topic if you can! Enjoy conversation around the B&B breakfast table..."Man those were the days huh? I mean, well, except the blood bag steroid drug cheat part. Can I get more syrup over here?"

[savine]

Hincapie is the Don.....he done what he had to do at the time n only opened his gob when forced to. For me my fav Yank racer, although Tyler had some balls as well.

[MattTuck]

Won't buy his book. might visit his B&B.

He's a minor celebrity... I'm sure he'd have good stories to share with guests and would probably be able to suggest good routes to ride... maybe even go on a ride with him.

[wasfast]

He was involved with a large housing development there a few years ago. Did it fail or is it still going?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . steal the towels, then burn them and send him a pic of it. :mad:

BBD

[christian]

I don't really understand the angst. He cheated, he lied (part and parcel), he didn't come clean any sooner than he had to. Just like the rest of them!

Look, I don't like the doping culture in cycling any better than anyone else, but it seems to me better that he's starting a B&B than angling for a job as DS at BMC.

[Elefantino]

No mention of George's doping or suspension in that article....weird.
Apparently updated...

Hincapie, whose career included a record-setting 17 Tour de France starts, is now past another stressor as well. Lance Armstrong’s longtime road captain admitted to doping throughout his career and provided sworn testimony to the U.S Anti-Doping Agency last September, accepting a six-month ban from competition that, in his case, proved largely toothless. Hincapie retired after August’s USA Pro Cycling Challenge.

[MattTuck]

. . . steal the towels, then burn them and send him a pic of it. :mad:

BBD

Would actually be pretty funny to show up with a blood bag and ask if you can store it in their freezer.

[MattTuck]

I don't really understand the angst. He cheated, he lied (part and parcel), he didn't come clean any sooner than he had to. Just like the rest of them!

Look, I don't like the doping culture in cycling any better than anyone else, but it seems to me better that he's starting a B&B than angling for a job as DS at BMC.

:no: It is all George's fault.


;)


I'd wear this jersey on every ride I went on.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjY2WDQ0Mw==/$T2eC16hHJGkE9no8jDqpBQ6khGn3LQ~~60_1.JPG?set_id=8 800005007

[witcombusa]

I've got no problems with big Georgie. He was making a living in the time "honored" european fashion....

wish him all the best

[christian]

Wouldn't you wear 2005 Quickstep Innergetic:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/jul05/hew05/Img_8588.jpg
???

(And also do _that_ to your hair!)

[54ny77]

that there was funny.

Would actually be pretty funny to show up with a blood bag and ask if you can store it in their freezer.

[Nags&Ducs]

I don't really understand the angst. He cheated, he lied (part and parcel), he didn't come clean any sooner than he had to. Just like the rest of them!

Look, I don't like the doping culture in cycling any better than anyone else, but it seems to me better that he's starting a B&B than angling for a job as DS at BMC.

I'm right there with ya. He did what everyone, EVERYONE else did. No more, no less.

[FlashUNC]

Was and will always be a Big George Fan!

If his clothes fit fat guys better it is all I would buy. If his B&B included flat land rides I would reserve my stay right now. May still consider a vacation there in hopes of seing his wife.:banana:

ATMO, after Lance he is the 2nd greatest american cyclist.

Both are miles behind LeMond.

[MattTuck]

Both are miles behind LeMond.

Marshall Taylor

[firerescuefin]

I'm right there with ya. He did what everyone, EVERYONE else did. No more, no less.

...and I don't like him any less than I do the other cheaters...but he doesn't get a pass because he passed himself off as this great teammate/stallwart of US cycling either...just another scumbag.

GH knew what he was doing, when he did it...and whose truths his lies were covering...and the effect it was having on their lives. Run your B&B...spend your funds....run your clothing company...and stay the hell out of the public face of the sport.

[cfox]

...and I don't like him any less than I do the other cheaters...but he doesn't get a pass because he passed himself off as this great teammate/stallwart of US cycling either...just another scumbag.

GH knew what he was doing, when he did it...and whose truths his lies were covering...and the effect it was having on their lives. Run your B&B...spend your funds....run your clothing company...and stay the hell out of the public face of the sport.

EXACTLY. I get it...they all doped. How about we move on? Do we need suck-ass puff pieces on how swell his well funded (by doping) retirement is going? Seriously, if anyone really cares what George Hincapie is doing they need another hobby. I'm really happy he gets to drive his kids to school instead of riding his bike. What a hero.

[CunegoFan]

...and I don't like him any less than I do the other cheaters...but he doesn't get a pass because he passed himself off as this great teammate/stallwart of US cycling either...just another scumbag.

GH knew what he was doing, when he did it...and whose truths his lies were covering...and the effect it was having on their lives. Run your B&B...spend your funds....run your clothing company...and stay the hell out of the public face of the sport.

There were a huge number of people who knew Armstrong was doping but did nothing while he sued people. Every person in the cycling media knew. Are you going to blame them for Armstrong's suits? Hincapie never scheduled press conferences and talk show appearances to lie about his doping. He always kept it low key. Blaming Hincapie for Armstrong's actions is a bit much.

If you want someone to blame then blame someone like Vaughters who reaped the rewards of building a brand based around anti-doping. He had the ability to sink Armstrong long before USADA. When Landis was planning on admitting to doping, Vaughters urged him to only talk about what he did and not implicate others. When Landis came looking for a job, Vaughters told him no, essentially forcing Landis into doing something that Vaughters did not have the guts to do himself.

[firerescuefin]

Blaming Hincapie for Armstrong's actions is a bit much.

I don't blame him...or absolve anyone else...but he knew what the price potentially could be of riding the Armstrong "gravy train"...and the price others were paying...and happy to cover for his bud when the mic was shoved in his face. Like I said...

[CunegoFan]

I don't blame him...or absolve anyone else...but he knew what the price potentially could be of riding the Armstrong "gravy train"...and the price others were paying...and happy to cover for his bud when the mic was shoved in his face.

When did Hincapie lie to the press about this? I don't remember Hincapie being part of Armstrong's PR campaign.

When was he supposed to let the cat out of the bag about Armstrong? 2002? 2004? 2006? Where are the other pros who voluntarily ended their careers by speaking out? Vaughter could not bring himself to even admit his own doping until Armstrong was charged, and he supposedly is a courageous warrior fighting to change cycling.

[slidey]

I'm with you on this...but I don't think by not angling for DS roles the tarnished pro's are done sponging on cycling. I'm quite apprehensive about their financial stakes in these development teams:

http://hincapieracing.com/team/

http://www.bontragercyclingteam.com/Team

Admittedly, I can't quantify the amount of money streaming in from these endeavours into the pockets of LA/GH, etc. But their dirty shadow on these young talents under the pretext of promoting clean cycling is all a bit too convenient. My prediction is that this is their ticket back into the sport, at a more suitable/profitable time down the line.

...but it seems to me better that he's starting a B&B than angling for a job as DS at BMC.

[54ny77]

Whenever I read about GH, I always think of this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F4W0R1Zr_8

:p

[nm87710]

He was involved with a large housing development there a few years ago. Did it fail or is it still going? almost gone

[Pete Mckeon]

a few YEARS ago this resort was planned and the marketing began then the economy downturn. It will take some significant $$$$$ :banana:

[Nags&Ducs]

EXACTLY. I get it...they all doped. How about we move on? Do we need suck-ass puff pieces on how swell his well funded (by doping) retirement is going? Seriously, if anyone really cares what George Hincapie is doing they need another hobby. I'm really happy he gets to drive his kids to school instead of riding his bike. What a hero.

Do "we" need half the crap in the print media and news? I don't care what GH is doing-didn't even read the article. But I don't begrudge him for living his life. I don't begrudged him that someone thought it worthwhile to write about his current endeavors. And I don't hold it against him that he cheated. He cheated like everyone else. He did NOT bully others like Armstrong did. I dislike Armstrong for that reason,more so than for cheating. EVERYONE cheated. It was in the culture. Hopefully, the culture is changing.

[fuzzalow]

GH fed at the trough as did everyone else in the sport and as did everyone ancillary to the sport. The spin-offs were lucrative. He took his money and looked the other way. A lot of people did.

GH was not responsible to do anything other than ride the bike in the manner of his peers in the peloton. He should discreetly pocket his take from that enterprise and go quietly.

The UCI and journalists are another matter as to those that fed at the same trough.

[merlincustom1]

EVERYONE did not cheat.

[fuzzalow]

EVERYONE did not cheat.

"trough" was refering to the money not the PEDs. And everyone wanted some of that action.

[Black Dog]

Do "we" need half the crap in the print media and news? I don't care what GH is doing-didn't even read the article. But I don't begrudge him for living his life. I don't begrudged him that someone thought it worthwhile to write about his current endeavors. And I don't hold it against him that he cheated. He cheated like everyone else. He did NOT bully others like Armstrong did. I dislike Armstrong for that reason,more so than for cheating. EVERYONE cheated. It was in the culture. Hopefully, the culture is changing.

I think the issue is that he was complicit in the bullying and as such guilty of the offence.

[CunegoFan]

EVERYONE did not cheat.

All the ones who wanted to go to Europe did.

[dd74]

I like his cycling clothes.

[Nags&Ducs]

All the ones who wanted to go to Europe did.

Everyone who had a chance to be a "coud uh be a contendah" did! :banana:

I believe and hope that Cuddles never cheated. Hope there are others too. Just seemed at the time this was going on, anyone who had a chance to win, was on PEDs or was doping.

[CunegoFan]

Everyone who had a chance to be a "coud uh be a contendah" did! :banana:

I believe and hope that Cuddles never cheated. Hope there are others too. Just seemed at the time this was going on, anyone who had a chance to win, was on PEDs or was doping.

I would not bet on Cuddles. He started out competitive in mountain biking when the small group at the top were all on drugs. His manager is Tony Rominger, a doper's doper. Rominger's first order of business after hiring Evans was to take him to see Dr. Ferrari. Evans ended up at Mapei, a team so dirty its owner shut it down in disgust. From there he went to T-Mobile and its teamwide doping program. Then it was on to Lotto. The Belgian teams have never been hesitant about doping. Right after he left Lotto, a Lotto soigneur was caught importing an experimental drug from Australia. Shortly after he went to BMC, a BMC soigneur was caught importing a large quantity of EPO, which he claimed was for personal use. Aside from the injuries Evans received while at T-Mobile, he spent his time as a competitive GT rider in an era where it is hard to find anyone who placed in the top ten without drugs unless he were the beneficiary of a crazy break.

Evans manager, Rominger, has involved himself doping programs of his client's teams. After Heras was caught, Saiz blamed Dr. Fuentes and broke off the team's relationship while still owing Fuentes money. Vinokourov, a client of Rominger, was hired by Liberty Seguros to lead the team. Upon finding LS's doping program in shambles, Rominger personally facilitated Saiz and Fuentes getting back on good terms. After Vino got out of the T-Mobile program, Rominger hooked him up with his old friend, Dr. Ferrari.

When Evans left Lotto, Rominger did not bother to shop him around. He went straight to Rhis, who personally funded Landis' doping program to the tune of fifty thousand euros. Vaughters, who had a GT support team of climbers and time trialers of the sort that Evans had never enjoyed, was not approached and was not even aware that Evans was on the market, even though he was about to receive a large windfall for releasing Wiggins.

The chance that Evans was clean through the 00's is very slim. I think the best you can hope for is the peloton cleaned up enough during the last few years for riders to get off the sauce and some of the results in the last few years have been done clean...or cleanish. Personally I am doubtful much has changed. I cannot believe in guys like Froome and what I have seen from Sky.

[chengher87]

I figured this thread would eventually turn to doping. That being said, I always thought personally that Lance should have had his titles stripped not because of his doping (way before the USADA report) because most of his teammates were caught red-handed. I always thought it was funny that most team captains would be isolated on big climbs so that they could duke it out with each other. But Lance always had a teammate whether it be Landis, Heras or Livingston at the beginning, top and descent of the climbs. Which is why what team Sky did at the Tour last year brings the same feelings of skepticism. Although that could very well be attributed to such a weak field of GC hopefuls. I like Nibali, but he really didn't do anything outside a few attacks near the summit of the climbs and he didn't even use his FAR superior descending skills to open up a gap.

Why wasn't Hincapie's Ghent victory taken out of the books? It happened at the apex of the USPOSTAL doping, right?

[PQJ]

it is hard to find anyone who placed in the top ten without drugs unless he were the beneficiary of a crazy break.


Even beneficiaries of crazy breaks were on drugs - see, Pereiro, Oscar Sio.

I generally agree with your conclusions. No way in hell Froome is clean. Or fabulous Fabian. Or probably Wiggins too. You're probably right about Cuddles as well, though in his defense I'd say he never won or even threatened to win until things were . . . er, um, uh . . . marginally cleanerish.

[bcm119]

Hincapie was a good bike racer. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know anything about him as a person, and I don't think you can infer anything about his personal side from his racing career.

[firerescuefin]

Hincapie was a good bike racer. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't know anything about him as a person, and I don't think you can infer anything about his personal side from his racing career.

Actually...you can refer a lot...just like if you worked next to the CFO at major company and not only helped cook the books, but took a payoff yourself.

[PQJ]

Actually...you can refer a lot...just like if you worked next to the CFO at major company and not only helped cook the books, but took a payoff yourself.

That's not a fair comparison at all. By all accounts, George seems like a decent enough fellow. He was complicit in it like most everyone else.

[firerescuefin]

That's not a fair comparison at all. By all accounts, George seems like a decent enough fellow. He was complicit in it like most everyone else.

Interesting...so when he was getting the new guys on the team up to speed with the "Postal System"...and when he watched one of his best friends/gravy train/lance torching other people's lives and careers and stood by/getting paid.....it's cool, because he's a nice guy and everyone else was complicit. Hey, as long as you hold your politicians, public servants, and private businesses to the same standard (because everyone in politics/banking is doing it)...at least you'd be consistent. I wonder what those who were effected would say....betchya I have a pretty good idea. Actually talking to some that were close to situation, a better than good idea.

[PQJ]

Interesting...so when he was getting the new guys on the team up to speed with the "Postal System"...and when he watched one of his best friends/gravy train/lance torching other people's lives and careers and stood by/getting paid.....it's cool, because he's a nice guy and everyone else was complicit. Hey, as long as you hold your politicians, public servants, and private businesses to the same standard (because everyone in politics/banking is doing it)...at least you'd be consistent. I wonder what those who were effected would say....betchya I have a pretty good idea. Actually talking to some that were close to situation, a better than good idea.

That's a gross oversimplification and I think you know it. We've rehashed this many times before and I'm not inclined to go there again. The doping, the silence and the lies were (and probably still are) the price of admission. The pros either know it going in or learn it real quick. It's a stretch to hold George accountable for the way Lance treated people. It wasn't George's fight to fight; he did what he had to do, no more and no less. Yeah, if he was Mother Theresa, maybe he would have taken a stand, but he's just a guy who had the opportunity to ride his bike for a living. Again, by all accounts, he seems like a decent fellow and I don't get the animus.

[firerescuefin]

That's a gross oversimplification and I think you know it. We've rehashed this many times before and I'm not inclined to go there again. The doping, the silence and the lies were (and probably still are) the price of admission. The pros either know it going in or learn it real quick. It's a stretch to hold George accountable for the way Lance treated people. It wasn't George's fight to fight; he did what he had to do, no more and no less. Yeah, if he was Mother Theresa, maybe he would have taken a stand, but he's just a guy who had the opportunity to ride his bike for a living. Again, by all accounts, he seems like a decent fellow and I don't get the animus.

I don't think it's an oversimplication at all....let me repeat that....at all. Your saying it was the price of admission....and he just was doing what everyone else was doing. Is that what you would have told him if he was your son.....because that's what I asked myself what I would have done while reading Tyler's book (if I was his dad)....He was putting EPO, Synthetic testosterone, Bags of Blood, and who knows what else into his body. People die doing some of that ****...and who knows what the long term ramifications are....and chose to affiliate, actually tie himself to one of the biggest dicks in sporting history. As I said...he did the math, made the decisions, and has to live with them...the good and the bad. You think he's a good guy....I think he's a weak minded nice guy that determined the ends justified the means...and if he has a conscience at all...still is asking himself that question. I was going to say he has reaped what he's sown...but he's done better than that. He gets to keep the fruits of his spoils. His reputation should be stained forever IMO.

[PQJ]

I don't think it's an oversimplication at all....let me repeat that....at all. Your saying it was the price of admission....and he just was doing what everyone else was doing. Is that what you would have told him if he was your son.....because that's what I asked myself what I would have done while reading Tyler's book (if I was his dad)....He was putting EPO, Synthetic testosterone, Bags of Blood, and who knows what else into his body. People die doing some of that ****...and who knows what the long term ramifications are....and chose to affiliate, actually tie himself to one of the biggest dicks in sporting history. As I said...he did the math, made the decisions, and has to live with them...the good and the bad. You think he's a good guy....I think he's a weak minded nice guy that determined the ends justified the means...and if he has a conscience at all...still is asking himself that question. I was going to say he has reaped what he's sown...but he's done better than that. He gets to keep the fruits of his spoils. His reputation should be stained forever IMO.

I don't know what I would have done. I like to think I would've taken the high road but if faced with the prospect of the money and glory, I honestly can't say. I don't think any of us can. What would I tell my son? I guess fortunately for me I have 2 girls who don't seem that interested in sport, let alone professional sport. I'll try and raise them to be honorable people. The rest is up to them. George? I really couldn't care any less about him; I used to be a fan, now I'm just indifferent.

[firerescuefin]

I don't know what I would have done. I like to think I would've taken the high road but if faced with the prospect of the money and glory, I honestly can't say. I don't think any of us can. What would I tell my son? I guess fortunately for me I have 2 girls who don't seem that interested in sport, let alone professional sport. I'll try and raise them to be honorable people. The rest is up to them. George? I really couldn't care any less about him.

I will say this (while stepping of my high horse). Could I have seen taking the drugs (myself) if that was my dream...and that was the only way I would realize it, knowing everyone else was doing it....Yes

Could I have taken part in what Lance perpetrated on everyone in his orbit that wasn't on board....no. I would have jumped ship much sooner, and warned others to stay away.

Would that still have made me a cheater, weak willed, and of questionable character...absolutely

Would I want more/better for my kids....without a doubt. Would I attempt to keep them out of the sport (beyond college level racing) right now...and probably forever..yes

[fuzzalow]

I wish GH well.

The conclusion for the melodrama of PED in sport will not come to any definitive conclusion any time soon. We know what happened before and I can only hope it won't happen again quite to that extreme as before but there's no putting the Genie back in the bottle.

I can with all honesty say I could never do the pathologically corrupt things sanctioned by a certain team owner and DS for GH's teams, not for any price or reward.

But if I were in GH's spot I would have done the same as he did - take the PEDs and the money and look the other way. That's just the way it was.

[ElvisMerckx]

If his clothes fit fat guys better it is all I would buy. ... May still consider a vacation there in hopes of seing his wife....

Creepy

[Marz]

That's a gross oversimplification and I think you know it. We've rehashed this many times before and I'm not inclined to go there again. The doping, the silence and the lies were (and probably still are) the price of admission. The pros either know it going in or learn it real quick. It's a stretch to hold George accountable for the way Lance treated people. It wasn't George's fight to fight; he did what he had to do, no more and no less. Yeah, if he was Mother Theresa, maybe he would have taken a stand, but he's just a guy who had the opportunity to ride his bike for a living. Again, by all accounts, he seems like a decent fellow and I don't get the animus.

According to the late Christopher Hitchens, not even Mother Theresa took a stand.

[dumbod]

Wait.

George Hincaipie was accused of doping? When did this happen?

Please, tell me it isn't so. I don't know who to believe. Next you'll be telling me that Lance Armstrong doped.

[Hawker]

Like many of you, I was a big fan and even met him a couple of times.
I wish him the best, but he was and is a huge disappointment.

[BumbleBeeDave]

This thread has me trying to figure it out.

Maybe because I can sort for understand the other USADA witnesses may have doped because they were semi-forced into it in order to stay on the team . . . but George was the complicit Lance bud for so many years? I've also heard enough stories from this end of the country--where George raced his early career--that convince me he was doping long before Lance.

Maybe because he literally made millions on Lance's coattails and played right along as Lance destroyed people?

Maybe because there's minutely little chance he will lose those millions, even though they were gained just as crookedly as Lance's?

I can find it in myself to forgive Hamilton, Zabriskie, etc. Their experiences don't scream "victim" but at least whisper it. But George comes across more to me as a toadie . . . the scheming, fawning sidekick to neghborhood bully Scut Farkus in A Christmas Story.

I tend to overthink these things . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[dancinkozmo]

EVERYONE did not cheat.

example: C. Sastre

[1/2 Wheeler]

Creepy

If only I had a dime for every time I heard that:banana:

[CunegoFan]

example: C. Sastre

Really? He was top ten GT rider for a decade of the EPO era and rode for teams managed by Saiz, Riis, and Gianetti. Color me skeptical.

[rustychisel]

I tend to overthink these things . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

I doubt you overthink it.... perhaps because you supported the underdog, the guy who never won Paris Roubaix when it was his one big ticket chance per season, the loyal lieutenant, the right hand man, the guy whose luck never seemed to run the right way...

perhaps for all these reasons you feel the betrayal more deeply.

[AgilisMerlin]

and if he is participating in running his inn/bb, then we all have the chance to go ask him these questions or profess our statements in person.

It might not be so complicated, in fact. perhaps

just some thoughts

ps. i loved watching him race. It is what it is

[bostondrunk]

What TRULY amazes me is how folks 'suddenly' hate all these people......LA, Hincapie, etc.
Were you all that blind for the past 13+ years (well, really, 20+ years) to think that these people weren't doping all along???
From rider confessions, to positive tests, to unbelievable performances......it has been pretty freakin obvious that the entire peleton has been doped up since the early 90's, and somewhat before that too. As a fan, you either accepted it and loved the sport for what it was, or you moved on.
Same with every other pro sport out there.

Amazing how naive some people are.

[mcteague]

What TRULY amazes me is how folks 'suddenly' hate all these people......LA, Hincapie, etc.
Were you all that blind for the past 13+ years (well, really, 20+ years) to think that these people weren't doping all along???
From rider confessions, to positive tests, to unbelievable performances......it has been pretty freakin obvious that the entire peleton has been doped up since the early 90's, and somewhat before that too. As a fan, you either accepted it and loved the sport for what it was, or you moved on.
Same with every other pro sport out there.

Amazing how naive some people are.

Yeah, shocked I tells ya.

Tim

[54ny77]

I'd always been a fan and wasn't naieve to think he wasn't doping, but was shocked to see him act as a quiet enforcer to try and shut others up. Loyal lieutenant to the end, indeed.

Check the depo testimony.

What would you do if someone came to you and told your significant other or child that they better shut up and then threaten your livelihood if they don't comply?

I genuinely hope karma finds its way to all of 'em. They made their beds.



Amazing how naive some people are.

[weiwentg]

This thread has me trying to figure it out.

Maybe because I can sort for understand the other USADA witnesses may have doped because they were semi-forced into it in order to stay on the team . . . but George was the complicit Lance bud for so many years? I've also heard enough stories from this end of the country--where George raced his early career--that convince me he was doping long before Lance.

Maybe because he literally made millions on Lance's coattails and played right along as Lance destroyed people?

Maybe because there's minutely little chance he will lose those millions, even though they were gained just as crookedly as Lance's?

I can find it in myself to forgive Hamilton, Zabriskie, etc. Their experiences don't scream "victim" but at least whisper it. But George comes across more to me as a toadie . . . the scheming, fawning sidekick to neghborhood bully Scut Farkus in A Christmas Story.

I tend to overthink these things . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

You may well be correct. And yet, USADA's case would have been much, much weaker without GH's testimony.

GH may have stood by. But he wasn't the one doing the bullying. A lot of folks in his situation would have stood by. It's very, very easy for us to say we'd do differently. Too easy.

If letting him walk is the price of getting the ringleaders, then I can live with that.

[oldpotatoe]

What TRULY amazes me is how folks 'suddenly' hate all these people......LA, Hincapie, etc.
Were you all that blind for the past 13+ years (well, really, 20+ years) to think that these people weren't doping all along???
From rider confessions, to positive tests, to unbelievable performances......it has been pretty freakin obvious that the entire peleton has been doped up since the early 90's, and somewhat before that too. As a fan, you either accepted it and loved the sport for what it was, or you moved on.
Same with every other pro sport out there.

Amazing how naive some people are.

Well, I would be crushed if EDDY confessed now..even tho I know of the racing 'culture' then. I would be crushed if Indurain did to..altho...blah, blah.

I remember being VERY disappointed when Il Pirata got thrown out of the Giro the day before thew last day.

Watch a lot of baseball, love to hate the Rockies but if Tulowitzki got popped or Lincecum, or Cargo, some others who I really love to watch..I think for 'sports heros', most just don't want to know..or if they
'know' don't want in in their face.

It's entertainment..we want to 'try' to identify with 'them'..don't like it when a 'hero' does or says something stupid.

I remember watching Christian Bale in Empire of the Sun, "P-51, Cadillac of the skies!!". and didn't like to hear he was kinda a prick, these days..
so it goes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ouJ_WyS9v8

Also just cuz it's cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxb-V-rZqA

[firerescuefin]

You may well be correct. And yet, USADA's case would have been much, much weaker without GH's testimony.

GH may have stood by. But he wasn't the one doing the bullying. A lot of folks in his situation would have stood by. It's very, very easy for us to say we'd do differently. Too easy.

If letting him walk is the price of getting the ringleaders, then I can live with that.

Hincapie was threatened with jail time if he lied under oath...this wasn't the first time he had been asked.

[bostondrunk]

Well, I would be crushed if EDDY confessed now..even tho I know of the racing 'culture' then. I would be crushed if Indurain did to..altho...blah, blah....

Wasn't sure if you were joking?? Confession or not, he tested positive three times..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Merckx#Doping

[1/2 Wheeler]

What TRULY amazes me is how folks 'suddenly' hate all these people......LA, Hincapie, etc.
Were you all that blind for the past 13+ years (well, really, 20+ years) to think that these people weren't doping all along???
From rider confessions, to positive tests, to unbelievable performances......it has been pretty freakin obvious that the entire peleton has been doped up since the early 90's, and somewhat before that too. As a fan, you either accepted it and loved the sport for what it was, or you moved on.
Same with every other pro sport out there.

Amazing how naive some people are.

+1
It's not just about being naïve. Much of it is a holier than thou attitude.

Every damn one of us make decision on what sins are acceptable and unacceptable.

I would bet my left nut that many of the people on this forum damning these cheaters are lousy parents, spouses, friends or employees.

[AgilisMerlin]

+1


I would bet my left nut that many of the people on this forum damning these cheaters are lousy parents, spouses, friends or employees.

that is quite the bet.

just a thought

[firerescuefin]

+1
It's not just about being naïve. Much of it is a holier than thou attitude.

Every damn one of us make decision on what sins are acceptable and unacceptable.

I would bet my left nut that many of the people on this forum damning these cheaters are lousy parents, spouses, friends or employees.

Your trolling skills need some work...you're slipping with your umpteenth name change.

[PQJ]

+1
It's not just about being naïve. Much of it is a holier than thou attitude.

Every damn one of us make decision on what sins are acceptable and unacceptable.

I would bet my left nut that many of the people on this forum damning these cheaters are lousy parents, spouses, friends or employees.

Greg and I had lunch together yesterday and went for b12 shots after; he sends his regards. ;)

[Hawker]

[/QUOTE] "It's not just about being naïve. Much of it is a holier than thou attitude.

Every damn one of us make decision on what sins are acceptable and unacceptable

I would bet my left nut that many of the people on this forum damning these cheaters are lousy parents, spouses, friends or employees.[/QUOTE]

Really? If having to be perfect in every aspect of our lives is the requirement to hold others accountable for breaking rules and laws they have agreed to...we need to fire every judge and jury in the country.

[mcteague]

Well, I would be crushed if EDDY confessed now..even tho I know of the racing 'culture' then. I would be crushed if Indurain did to..altho...blah, blah.


Indurain? Really? I always assumed he was doped to the gills. He went from being Delgado's domestique to 5 time Tour winner nearly over night. A guy as big as he is staying with the little guys in the mountains? At least he kept quiet about it all and did not feel the need to destroy lives and careers.

Tim

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'd always been a fan and wasn't naieve to think he wasn't doping, but was shocked to see him act as a quiet enforcer to try and shut others up. Loyal lieutenant to the end, indeed.

It's the forcing others to do it part that gets me. Like the Mafia bag man.

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

Wasn't sure if you were joking?? Confession or not, he tested positive three times..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Merckx#Doping

I know, I know..like I said...

[Hindmost]

"Well, I would be crushed if ____ confessed now.."

Say it ain't so, Joe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQveng3Wxz8

[dancinkozmo]

Really? He was top ten GT rider for a decade of the EPO era and rode for teams managed by Saiz, Riis, and Gianetti. Color me skeptical.

youre right to be skeptical , but with all the crap thats gone down in recent months , Sastre's name has never come up AFAIK...
id also say theres at least a reasonable chance A. Hampsten rode clean as well

[tnt1557]

I can only speak for myself: George's popularity with me went out the window with LanceGate. That said, good luck.







William

I could not agree more, they were all men making their own decisions, however only Lance took the big hit.

[oldpotatoe]

I could not agree more, they were all men making their own decisions, however only Lance took the big hit.

yes, yes, lance was a victim.....