Suntour is back - SUN XCD

[nighthawk]

I'm sure this is old news for some, but I just heard about this from the CR list.

https://stan-pun.squarespace.com/

Seems like a promising attitude from the management:

"Junzo feels the time is right to re-enter the bicycle component business. As he puts it “the market is too race-centric; carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling. In the 1970’s and 80’s we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health, for the simple beauty of cycling.” For these reasons SunXCD will focus on touring and randonneuring components which were the focus of SunTour during its heyday..."
https://static.squarespace.com/static/5149f8b3e4b0dbe0bdef2192/516467f6e4b031714c06f31e/516467f6e4b031714c06f31d/1365533633673/Hub_sunxcd_02.jpg?format=500w

[oldpotatoe]

I'm sure this is old news for some, but I just heard about this from the CR list.

https://stan-pun.squarespace.com/

Seems like a promising attitude from the management:

"Junzo feels the time is right to re-enter the bicycle component business. As he puts it “the market is too race-centric; carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling. In the 1970’s and 80’s we cycled to be closer to nature, for the environment, for our health, for the simple beauty of cycling.” For these reasons SunXCD will focus on touring and randonneuring components which were the focus of SunTour during its heyday..."
https://static.squarespace.com/static/5149f8b3e4b0dbe0bdef2192/516467f6e4b031714c06f31e/516467f6e4b031714c06f31d/1365533633673/Hub_sunxcd_02.jpg?format=500w

Ehhh? Rando and touring?

Don't think so. They got killed by shimano for not going high end first, like DA.

[nighthawk]

Hubs are 32/36 drilling only... high flange. Real classy looking. Sealed cartridge bearings. Interesting they are doing 130 and 120 OLD rears... 120 with cassette body, not track hub? Bringing back 6 speed?

[nighthawk]

Yeah... when I think of Suntour, I think superbe, not randoneuring.... I found that statement odd, too. I still have some superbe and cyclone components that refuse to die. Love the cyclone pedals.... have gotten tons of miles out of suntour hubs, too.

[keevon]

That short body, 120 OLD cassette hub is really interesting. Although there's probably a bigger (relatively) market for a 126 OLD cassette hub.

They have a wide-ish rim too:
https://static.squarespace.com/static/5149f8b3e4b0dbe0bdef2192/51646c27e4b0663d2a3c39a1/51646c27e4b0663d2a3c39a0/1365535704859/rim_sunxcd_03.jpg?format=500w

I think this stuff is all re-badged from other manufacturers, though.

[palincss]

Ehhh? Rando and touring?

Don't think so. They got killed by shimano for not going high end first, like DA.

More likely, they got killed for not having worked out index shifting, for insufficient R&D and for poor quality control. See "Sunset for Suntour" http://pages.citebite.com/o2n1u6u4w3qui

[redir]

My '83 Nashbar touring bike has a group called Suntour XC that refuses to die. I think it's interesting but will probably prove to be difficult. Maybe they should partner with Grant Peterson :D

[oliver1850]

I like that 120 hub too, and agree that a 126 version would be good. It will be nice to build a vintage bike, keep the original spacing and not be tied to the available freewheels. I hope there's a nice RD, indexed DT and bar con shifters in the works. While I'm wishing, might as well bring back Superbe Pro and GPX complete groups.

Although Superbe Pro was great, I think they did sell a lot more of the rando type stuff. I remember lots of Fujis with close set middle and outer rings, a tiny small ring, and a wide range freewheel.

My first quality bike had XCD: it was a MTB six speed index group. It worked great. I had nearly 8,000 miles on it when it was stolen and had only replaced a freewheel and chains. Seems kind of an odd choice of names for the new stuff, not that it matter much.

[fiamme red]

Although Superbe Pro was great, I think they did sell a lot more of the rando type stuff. I remember lots of Fujis with close set middle and outer rings, a tiny small ring, and a wide range freewheel.That was actually classic gearing for loaded touring (though it would work well for randonneuring too), "half-step plus granny."

[oliver1850]

I never saw a Superbe Pro bike in my neighborhood, but there were lots of those Fujis, Schwinns and others with the touring gearing around.

[cachagua]

I have PINED for a high-flange cassette hub that looks like that, to the point of considering fabricating my own. I'd prefer 28 holes, but I may bite... this could radically change my wheelbuilding plans for the season.

Also: “Carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling". I'll buy ANYTHING from ANYBODY who believes that!

[canadasteep]

Ahh Superbe pro.
I have the 7/8 speed group on my Sunday bike.
It shifts very well in friction, a pop of the switch and it's indexed.
Although in a certain part of the upshift it is a pain to get aligned/in place fast.
A mechanic said it was a shortcoming of the design - maybe f.o.s.?
Either way, it looks great, works very well and is durable - not just the outsides, but the springs used, etc.

[kramnnim]

I have PINED for a high-flange cassette hub that looks like that, to the point of considering fabricating my own. I'd prefer 28 holes, but I may bite... this could radically change my wheelbuilding plans for the season.

American Classic... http://www.amclassic.com/en/products/hubs/overview.php

[Brian Smith]

That short body, 120 OLD cassette hub is really interesting. Although there's probably a bigger (relatively) market for a 126 OLD cassette hub.


You've got to be able to read these catalogs from Japanese manufacturers...
The 120 hub is for a special short-bodied cassette.

That's the most interesting component to me, I'd like to see that one pictured.
Hubs, schmubs, they look nice, but those are easy.

[oliver1850]

I don't see a 120 or 126 mm freehub at AC's site.

Not sure what Brian's point is about the cassette. Looks like Shimano spline to me. I would just use HG50 cogs and space them for whatever system I was using (if index).

[Suntourguy]

The reason my user name is Suntourguy is that when I signed up for the Serotta forum I had just put together a '82 Fuji Team (steel) using mostly Sun Tour Cyclone. It's flat bar, thumb shifters, road racing freewheel, Matrix ISO tubular wheelset etc. a mix of NOS and used. The bike is a lot of fun if not at all stiff. The Sun Tour always works. This is my bike to take downtown and lock to a bike rack. There is a lot of sun tour laying around waiting to be used. A friend has a garage full of it. I question weather bringing it back is a good plan but I'm glad to see it.
Ken

[nighthawk]

I don't see a 120 or 126 mm freehub at AC's site.

Not sure what Brian's point is about the cassette. Looks like Shimano spline to me. I would just use HG50 cogs and space them for whatever system I was using (if index).

I think he's talking about wanting to see the short-bodied cassette for the 120 mm hub. The cassette itself... They don't hint at how many cogs it'll accommodate.

[jds108]

I have PINED for a high-flange cassette hub that looks like that, to the point of considering fabricating my own. I'd prefer 28 holes, but I may bite... this could radically change my wheelbuilding plans for the season.

Also: “Carbon fiber, electric shifting, full suspension, 11 speed, doesn’t really enhance the enjoyment of cycling". I'll buy ANYTHING from ANYBODY who believes that!

Check out the Suzue Classica. Made in front/rear/cassette/shimano/campy and multiple drillings. Here is one online: http://www.bikesonline.com/suzue-classica-alloy-rear-cassette-hub-silver-130mm-width-36-hole.htm

[oliver1850]

I think he's talking about wanting to see the short-bodied cassette for the 120 mm hub. The cassette itself... They don't hint at how many cogs it'll accommodate.



I didn't click on the link, but assumed Shimano spline. That body looks wide enough that it might take 6 cogs at Shimano 7/8 spacing, which would be 25.8 mm wide. 8 speed FHB is about 35 mm even though the cassette is a bit wider, so if you lop 9.2 mm off the width of an 8 speed (130 mm) hub, you've almost got it down to 120 just by narrowing the FHB. If 6 cogs with that spacing will fit, I could see using one with a 7400 RD and shifters on a 120 spaced frame, or an old XT with 7 speed 105 shifters if I wanted a big cog.

[oliver1850]

.

[KVN]

Is this company really Suntour or has the company changed hands like Schwinn, Motobecane, Dawes, etc?

[oliver1850]

Original company was Maeda Industries, but Mori Industries bought them out around 1990 and combined them with SR. SR/Suntour continued for a few years, then was sold by Mori to some of the SR/ST management. I think that was the end of any Japanese made componants, since then it's all come from Taiwan. So little of the company that made the good stuff remains, but maybe there are some people left that worked for Maeda.

[bikinchris]

Man, 8 speed is a problem. You have to pay half as much for a chain that will last much longer than a 11 speed chain. Where's the profit in that?

[Fastpedaller]

Hi guys, I've got an old Uniglide hub which I'm in the process of stripping and regreasing - ok nothing new there! But I took the opportunity of comparing this to a shimano Acera-X 7 speed hub. Both the freehubs are the same width. A bit more measuring revealed
Old uniglide 122mm OLN, 52mm flange-flange.
Acera-X 130mm OLN 52mm flange-flange.

Further investigation (removal of rubber dust shield on non-gear side of Acera-X) reveals a 10mm spacer between the locknut and cone, so the removal would give us our 120mm required dimension, and the same dimension for freehub, and flanges for the old uniglide. (that old wheel had always been strong and never given problems). So we have our answer for 120mm OLN hub? Not quite as the rubber dust shield doesn't fit any more!
Are we all missing something here though......... Is it possible to take a different Shimano hub (maybe Tiagra or 105) and change the freehub to a 7 speed, which I believe are available, removing a spacer on non-gear side, screwing the cone/locknut down more on gearside (due to narrower freehub) and shorten the axle...... achieving our 120mm?????????????
Anyone have the spare parts to try it?
Opinions on the above would be appreciated.
Fastpedaller Norfolk U.K.

[DarkStar]

Still running XC Pro on my Yeti FRO.

[bluesea]

Is this Suntour or the name Suntour?

[Mark McM]

Is it possible to take a different Shimano hub (maybe Tiagra or 105) and change the freehub to a 7 speed, which I believe are available, removing a spacer on non-gear side, screwing the cone/locknut down more on gearside (due to narrower freehub) and shorten the axle...... achieving our 120mm?????????????
Anyone have the spare parts to try it?
Opinions on the above would be appreciated.
Fastpedaller Norfolk U.K.

Possibly - but different models of freehubs use different styles of axle seals. So while the freehub would mate with the hub body, the right bearing cone might not mate with the seal that is pre-installed in the freehub body. In addition to the freehub body, you'll probably have to get the cone that mates with the seal.

[ultraman6970]

Interesting, and then what sr suntour has to do with them?

Looks like suntour xcd is a local thing with 4 offices and they probably bought the name and the logo from who ever had it after the company died. Maybe is a licensing?

[oliver1850]

Hi guys, I've got an old Uniglide hub which I'm in the process of stripping and regreasing - ok nothing new there! But I took the opportunity of comparing this to a shimano Acera-X 7 speed hub. Both the freehubs are the same width. A bit more measuring revealed
Old uniglide 122mm OLN, 52mm flange-flange.
Acera-X 130mm OLN 52mm flange-flange.

Further investigation (removal of rubber dust shield on non-gear side of Acera-X) reveals a 10mm spacer between the locknut and cone, so the removal would give us our 120mm required dimension, and the same dimension for freehub, and flanges for the old uniglide. (that old wheel had always been strong and never given problems). So we have our answer for 120mm OLN hub? Not quite as the rubber dust shield doesn't fit any more!
Are we all missing something here though......... Is it possible to take a different Shimano hub (maybe Tiagra or 105) and change the freehub to a 7 speed, which I believe are available, removing a spacer on non-gear side, screwing the cone/locknut down more on gearside (due to narrower freehub) and shorten the axle...... achieving our 120mm?????????????
Anyone have the spare parts to try it?
Opinions on the above would be appreciated.
Fastpedaller Norfolk U.K.

The Shimano hub you want to build already exists:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=E6DC3518-B27E-47A0-B248-5B615CC9147B&Enum=110&AbsPos=10

They probably didn't sell a ton of these, but they are surely out there.

I wonder if you might make a usable 7 speed 120 mm wheel using an off center rim. I'm looking at a tricolor 600 7 speed hub. It looks like you could move the drive side locknut inboard 1 or 2 mm and still have chain clearance, depending on dropout and stay design of the target frame. That would result in a 122-124 mm hub with the same dish as a 126 wheel. To get it down to 120mm, you would need to increase dish, but the OC rim might allow you to build the wheel with no more dish than a 126 wheel.

Another option would be to reset the frame to whatever width hub you can easily come up with.

[oliver1850]

I was reading a 1990 SunTour catalog today, and find the qote in the OP about electronic shifting not enhancing the enjoyment of cycling ironic. The 1990 catalog features SunTour's new "BEAST" (Browning Electronic AccuShift Technology), an electronic front derailleur system.

[Fastpedaller]

The Shimano hub you want to build already exists:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=E6DC3518-B27E-47A0-B248-5B615CC9147B&Enum=110&AbsPos=10

They probably didn't sell a ton of these, but they are surely out there.



Another option would be to reset the frame to whatever width hub you can easily come up with.

But these don't accept the Hyperglide sprockets. It would be far better to fit the HG 7 speed freehub. The quest of 120mm is partly to avoid coldsetting good frames.

[ultraman6970]

I believe I have one of those uniglide hubs moving around if you need one. Can't even remember how i got it or when but was centuries ago.

Is this the one???

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j426/ultraman6970/DSCF0008_zps6e06c8e6.jpg

[bluemax]

But these don't accept the Hyperglide sprockets. It would be far better to fit the HG 7 speed freehub. The quest of 120mm is partly to avoid coldsetting good frames.

Easy to make them fit with a few minutes of filing on the cogs.

[Fastpedaller]

Missing the point though - surely what's required is a sealed bearing hub spaced to 120mm OLN with a modern steel body freehub.

[cachagua]

Like the middle one of these three?

http://sunxcd.net/hubs/

Okay, alloy freehub body. But kind of attractive.

[Fastpedaller]

Like the middle one of these three?

http://sunxcd.net/hubs/

Okay, alloy freehub body. But kind of attractive.

Agree it's the nearest to my goal - don't think they are available in uk (maybe never), and I would prefer a steel shell on the freehub.
I'm very frustrated that the manufacturers just produce more and more gears with resultant weaker and more expensive chains. With 5 speed and triple chainset we would all have enough gears and a more durable drivetrain.

[oldpotatoe]

Missing the point though - surely what's required is a sealed bearing hub spaced to 120mm OLN with a modern steel body freehub.

Pretty small market, that..a freehub/cassette, geared bike on a 120mm spaced frame. Most 120mm spaced frames of today don't even have a der hanger...

[cachagua]

Don't think they are available in uk (maybe never)...

http://sunxcd.net/distribution/ shows places in Asia, the US, France, and Italy -- I've been in touch with the US distributor, Merry Sales, and I can't imagine they'd be unwilling to ship to you if no one else would. . .

I haven't bought any yet; I'm prodding them to make a 28-hole version. But they look awful nice!

[Dustin]

Here's what I want for touring/rando from Suntour:

135mm spaced hub with no or almost no dish. 7-speed cassette with friction friendly 7-speed spacing, but using modern "technology" to make the cassette light. Offer it with a WIDE range, 13-32 for those non-racers who laugh at obsession with close gaps.

Basically, a cassette version of the Philwood "Rivy" freewheel hub that Rivendell sells, but without the stupid freewheel part.

Yes, I know you can stick a 7-speed cassette on a 8/9/10 speed hub with a spacer, but that does not address the dish issue, and available 7-speed cassettes are boat anchors.

Anyway, maybe I'm a market of one, but this to me would be a bomber setup for touring and randoneuring.

[cachagua]

Oh, well, simple enough to cold-set your frame to 130, right?


(JOKING!)

[Lanterne Rouge]

Anyone know the price point on this stuff? Are the planning on a full XCD grupposan?

I have to say I like the shiny polished stuff and I like the fact there are counter culture/niche/anti-racing.

[559Rando]

7-speed cassette with friction friendly 7-speed spacing, but using modern "technology" to make the cassette light. Offer it with a WIDE range, 13-32 for those non-racers who laugh at obsession with close gaps.


Is like to see loose cassette cogs and spacers (allowing cogs to be used with 7,8,9,10,11s) like the old freewheel days. Pick your gearing. Not sure how marketable this is but I could see boutique brand running with it and gaining a strong following. I'll just take 1% of gross on this one...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bicycletricycle]

I just got some of the cranks, they are some pretty nice TA knock offs.