Things I don’t like about roadies.

[Lanterne Rouge]

A moan, just a couple of personal things that make me want to get off my bike and kick roadies in the shins:

Skinny little gits drafting me up hills and then popping around me at the apex and blitzing into the distance. Take your time on the front and if you don’t at least have the good grace to say thanks for the free trip.

Also the underhand compliment “yeah you climb pretty good for a gig guy”. Drop the “for a big guy” and we could be friends but right now I want to stick a twig in your front wheel.

[cdn_bacon]

You write pretty good for a big guy ;):eek:

[firerescuefin]

4 weeks ago, on a ride with Robert, a new teammate, for the first time.....

Robert: "You must be a Sprinter":cool:

Me: "Nope, just fat" :help:

[buddybikes]

Just slow down a bit and let him overlap your wheel or pass then jump on his a**

[Lanterne Rouge]

You write pretty good for a big guy ;):eek:

I have a modified keyboard that will accomodate my sausage fingers, luckily it is laterally stiff yet vertically compliant.

Also "big guy" seems to refer anyone that rides a bike bigger than a 58 and weighs more that 160lbs

[shovelhd]

I blame Strava.

[MattTuck]

I don't let anyone on my rear wheel. If I see them coming behind me, I slow down when they arrive and try to strike up a conversation.

If they want to trade pulls, I'm all for it, but after I get to know them first.

[67-59]

Also the underhand compliment “yeah you climb pretty good for a gig guy”. Drop the “for a big guy” and we could be friends but right now I want to stick a twig in your front wheel.

Just respond with "Sorry, you're not my type."

:bike:

[cdn_bacon]

I blame Strava.

ahahahahahahahahahah

[redir]

Dang Lantern calm down big guy.

But seriously you don't get much of a draft going up.

[Louis]

Skinny little gits drafting me up hills and then popping around me at the apex and blitzing into the distance. Take your time on the front and if you don’t at least have the good grace to say thanks for the free trip.

This ^^^ doesn't make sense to me:

1) If they truly are skinny little guys they ought to fly up the hills.

2) If you are bigger than they are and you're able to stay ahead of them on the climbs then you should have no problem staying way ahead of them on the flats or the downhills.

3) Drafting up a hill is hardly a "free trip."

4) If they are having problems staying with you on the climb and have to draft to keep up then there's a good chance that you should be able to drop them.

Caveat: I'm not a racer and know little about climbing tactics. The statements above are just guesses on my part.

Finally, I too hate those tiny little 140 lb guys who ride bikes with 4" tall headtubes. :(

[ahumblecycler]

@Lanterne Rouge - where did this experience happen? I ask because I am friends with a person who goes by that same moniker.

[rnhood]

Focus on who you're going to pass, not who is behind you.

[Lanterne Rouge]

@Lanterne Rouge - where did this experience happen? I ask because I am friends with a person who goes by that same moniker.

It happens always and everywhere - most notably on the 9W rollers in NY/NJ

[Lanterne Rouge]

Dang Lantern calm down big guy.

But seriously you don't get much of a draft going up.

So it's you then :(

[soulspinner]

A moan, just a couple of personal things that make me want to get off my bike and kick roadies in the shins:

Skinny little gits drafting me up hills and then popping around me at the apex and blitzing into the distance. Take your time on the front and if you don’t at least have the good grace to say thanks for the free trip.

Also the underhand compliment “yeah you climb pretty good for a gig guy”. Drop the “for a big guy” and we could be friends but right now I want to stick a twig in your front wheel.

Frame pumps are better. Just dont forget to let go.............

[rain dogs]

I just don't get drafting strangers unless you're racing... or unless it's short term because of safety (ie thin roads, traffic etc.).

You're likely strangers.. try saying hello. Ask permission and work together. Or use your own legs... you draft a stranger outside of a race, without chatting and it's pretty weak, socially and physically imHo. :no:

Other riders are part of a community... not work donkeys.

[redir]

So it's you then :(

Hahaha no I am 6'4" 210lbs but trying real hard to get down to 200. When I was in my best form I was 190 and I could actually climb well as a cat 4 anyway. When you are big like us EVERYONE wants to be on your wheel and usually it's the littlest guy so when you swing around he gets in front of you and you may as well be riding on the front ;)

[EDS]

It happens always and everywhere - most notably on the 9W rollers in NY/NJ

Thanks for the pull! :)

[Lanterne Rouge]

Thanks for the pull! :)

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

[false_Aest]

how fast are you going

or

how big are you

or

what kind've wind are you riding into


that someone drafts off of you uphill?


cuz I think I wanna move closer to you

[beeatnik]

This ^^^ doesn't make sense to me:

1) If they truly are skinny little guys they ought to fly up the hills.

2) If you are bigger than they are and you're able to stay ahead of them on the climbs then you should have no problem staying way ahead of them on the flats or the downhills.

3) Drafting up a hill is hardly a "free trip."

4) If they are having problems staying with you on the climb and have to draft to keep up then there's a good chance that you should be able to drop them.

Caveat: I'm not a racer and know little about climbing tactics. The statements above are just guesses on my part.



+10000ft

Maybe Mr. Red is just a wide body and passing on the left could expose the skinny git to a Suburban moving at 60mph on the one lane road.

[Elefantino]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if someone wants to sit on my wheel while I climb it means either:
Gee, I must be strong today
Gee, there actually is someone who sucks worse than me on hills

Either way, I'm feeling pretty good.

[pavel]

how fast are you going

or

how big are you

or

what kind've wind are you riding into


that someone drafts off of you uphill?


cuz I think I wanna move closer to you

pretty much all of this!

[shovelhd]

Finally, I too hate those tiny little 140 lb guys who ride bikes with 4" tall headtubes. :(

eff you :banana:

[fuzzalow]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

You are channeling the Liam Neeson character in Taken. OK but not everyones gonna get the joke.

If you are not joking, well, I don't get too close to you.

[mike p]

Years of racing behind me. I hear the same things all the time. Road race... big guys complain little climbers do nothing but sit in till the hills then come to the front and splinter the race. Crits... little dudes complain the race wasn't hard enough and the big sprinters sit in till the last couple laps..... Wake up that's life! Either lose weight and work on your climbing if your a big guy or try other tactics (breakaways, teamwork) if your a climber in a crit.

Mike

[beeatnik]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

Hahahah. I missed that.

Brings to mind an incident with a tri-dork who was doing hill repeats on GMR (tour of california baldy stage road). At the time I was at my climbing weight of 145 and this guy looked like a pitted 200. Maybe he didn't appreciate my speed up the mountain, but on the way down he flew by me at 45mph. For a moment I thought one of the guys in my group had attacked and I went with him so I could get some screen time in the Go-Pro video. After a few seconds and a hard acceleration I realized the guy who had buzzed me was the tri-dork. That afternoon followed a rainy morning and the temp was about 40. Tri dork was not wearing socks or knee warmers. But he was on an Evo and he was a good descender picking good lines. My mistake was to pace myself about 10 car lengths behind because when we would hit a roller I'd have enough momentum where I would end up about a car length back. Short story long, he thought I was trying to draft him. When I realized this I made sure to modulate my speed and yet every roller I would be close enough to upset this douchebag's sense of personal space. Remember, this guy buzzed me in the first place. Short story long, halfway down the mountain he took a gulp of water and spit it out. I was close enough where I was sprayed. It couldn't have been intentional I thought, but after this, I kept even more distance. And, yet, those fooking rollers. Even though we would hit 55 and he had at least 100 meters on me, I'd get close on the rollers. Finally, with about 1000 ft left in the descent, he took another gulp of water slowed down, looked back at me and then spit and sprayed me. Then, he caught up to a truck and drafted it the rest of the way. Tri dorks, man.

I'm sure some of you cats here will tell me that I violated some descending etiquette unspoken rules.

[Lanterne Rouge]

You are channeling the Liam Neeson character in Taken. OK but not everyones gonna get the joke.

If you are not joking, well, I don't get too close to you.

Yeah it's a joke.....I mean seriously what chance have I got of catching and finding anyone.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Years of racing behind me. I hear the same things all the time. Road race... big guys complain little climbers do nothing but sit in till the hills then come to the front and splinter the race. Crits... little dudes complain the race wasn't hard enough and the big sprinters sit in till the last couple laps..... Wake up that's life! Either lose weight and work on your climbing if your a big guy or try other tactics (breakaways, teamwork) if your a climber in a crit.

Mike

All good if you're racing - not so cool when you're out for fun.

[shovelhd]

All good if you're racing - not so cool when you're out for fun.

I blame Strava. There's no such thing as riding for fun anymore. It's all about the KOM's, the leaderboard, the Rapha Challenges.

Spitting water on you? That's nasty. That would not go down well with me.

[William]

I blame Strava. There's no such thing as riding for fun anymore. It's all about the KOM's, the leaderboard, the Rapha Challenges.




His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His legs were heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target best time was far away. Taught never to slow down, never to surrender. Taught that death on the bike in service to Strava was the greatest glory he could achieve in his life....


http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/this.is.strava.png







William

[phcollard]

Don't take it that way. Your Fuso looks WAY better than their Pinarellos :)

Oh and welcome to the forums!

[christian]

I blame Strava. There's no such thing as riding for fun anymore. It's all about the KOM's, the leaderboard, the Rapha Challenges.I was not aware of this. I will attempt to avoid any fun on my rides tomorrow and Sunday. I suppose saying "Wheeeeee!" on the downhills is strictly frowned upon?

[rain dogs]

Outside of a race/group ride someone latching on to another rider immediately puts the burden of responsibility of safety, line selection, signaling hazards, not doing anything unexpected etc. on the front rider.

The front rider didn't ask for that and may not want that. If you've ridden in enough pacelines, things happen, wheels overlap, derailleur hangers are broken, riders go down, groups go off the road. Yeah, it's quite rare, but by not recognizing the increased risks, the person who latches on and doesn't check in tells me that they likely don't recognize/know those risks, so why would I assume they are safe behind me? How can I know that they know proper paceline etiquette, hand position and safety?

I think it's very inconsiderate to unexpectedly put this burden on a random front rider who maybe is just out there to concentrate on their own thing. If he/she wanted to be pulling in a paceline/group... they probably would be.

[bironi]

We have a pretty big guy in our group that crushes most of us on the climbs when he drops a bit of weight. He doesn't need to lose much, but it makes all the difference. He knows how to suffer and he does so to get in shape. He rides a couple heavy pos bikes 90% of the year, so he can crush at the height of summer. I try to motivate him with wide ass comments throughout the winter. He makes me pay, but we're still good buds.........I think. He is a NJ boy - his skin seems pretty thick. And one other thing, I do love sucking his wheel on a good mountain descent.

[afrizzledfry]

Outside of a race/group ride someone latching on to another rider immediately puts the burden of responsibility of safety, line selection, signaling hazards, not doing anything unexpected etc. on the front rider.

The front rider didn't ask for that and may not want that. If you've ridden in enough pacelines, things happen, wheels overlap, derailleur hangers are broken, riders go down, groups go off the road. Yeah, it's quite rare, but by not recognizing the increased risks, the person who latches on and doesn't check in tells me that they likely don't recognize/know those risks, so why would I assume they are safe behind me? How can I know that they know proper paceline etiquette, hand position and safety?

I think it's very inconsiderate to unexpectedly put this burden on a random front rider who maybe is just out there to concentrate on their own thing. If he/she wanted to be pulling in a paceline/group... they probably would be.

Well said. I'm a skinny 140 lber. I had a fat old dude on my wheel yesterday after passing him. It was not appreciated. I enjoy my peace and quite sometimes.

[bluesea]

Outside of a race/group ride someone latching on to another rider immediately puts the burden of responsibility of safety, line selection, signaling hazards, not doing anything unexpected etc. on the front rider.




For the unauthorized latch on, I feel no burden other than for my own safety. How that rider affects the latter would be another issue I suppose.

[bostondrunk]

A moan, just a couple of personal things that make me want to get off my bike and kick roadies in the shins:

Skinny little gits drafting me up hills and then popping around me at the apex and blitzing into the distance. Take your time on the front and if you don’t at least have the good grace to say thanks for the free trip.

Also the underhand compliment “yeah you climb pretty good for a gig guy”. Drop the “for a big guy” and we could be friends but right now I want to stick a twig in your front wheel.

It was me. Both times. You have a fat...er...large ass, and I was laughing at your pop-up stem and 19cm head tube on your 53cm Serotta. Get over it, pumpkin.

[slidey]

It was me. Both times. You have a fat...er...large ass, and I was laughing at your pop-up stem and 19cm head tube on your 53cm Serotta. Get over it, pumpkin.

[√] Like

[blessthismess]

When im riding i try not to let stuff like that bother me (although secretly it does sometimes) and try not to show it. But the Spitting?!?! Oh man that would probably make me wanna do something bad! ;)

[Lovetoclimb]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

Now that we are on to the "Taken" subject, when is Taken 3: Before The Tookening being pitched!?

Also I am alarmed to know that I fall under the "big guy" moniker since I ride a 60cm frame and am 160 lbs! Paging Robert Gesink.

[rugbysecondrow]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

Too Funny! :banana:

[slidey]

http://youtu.be/KeuGxqTZ584

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

[gavingould]

I don't draft riders I don't know, and generally don't allow random draftees either. A lot of unskilled riders around here, and I don't enjoy crashing/being crashed into when another rider can't hop a pothole, swerves wildly, or doesn't understand what half-wheeling is. If I know you or I can tell you can handle yourself and won't plow into me, then I'm happy to take a big pull.

Squirrelly riders who keep leapfrogging me, but generally same pace? I'll stop for a drink, hopefully not see you later. Or I'll drop back a ways to not be on their wheel, wait for a good opening and then it's interval time - if they chase, then I know for sure I don't want them around...

I like to ride by myself a lot, clearly.

[AgilisMerlin]

Things/do/not/like/roadies

"Being dropped" by

[bluesea]

Things/do/not/like/roadies

"Being dropped" by



Hahaha. I get dropped every Sat. but only on the sprints, so no complaints--it makes me stronger.

[shovelhd]

William and bostondrunk: Outstanding!!!!!

[AgilisMerlin]

Hahaha. I get dropped every Sat. but only on the sprints, so no complaints--it makes me stronger.


Sometimes just being accepted by the small group of knuckleheads who die crossing those lines

Fractal (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rSOoPOwVm_w)

[bluesea]

^ That's when you hope you don't fall when you come to a stop. :)

[nighthawk]

Glad to say, I'm just as likely to run into a red fox, than I am to another cyclist riding in the same direction as me. Sounds like where you all are riding is crowded. Wouldn't be as fun for me if I had to deal with wheelsuckers...
...If it ever gets to be that way around here... I'll just start wearing white bib shorts and no shirt. That'll learn 'em.

[AgilisMerlin]

this is the month everyone in town starts taking there shirts off, walking around town - snowing or not

There used to be guy named "chili" in Albuquerque, when riding group rides with the shacklee crew - he used to ride shirtless, if I remember - and he ripped'

Just found this/ describes New Mexico group rides and routes

http://purityofspeed.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/1996-albuquerque-mono-the-gpsy-kings/

Left in 94' Santa Fe / suffered on those rides / great group of people

[jmoore]

Hopefully he waved to you.

[bluemax]

Every time one of these threads comes up, I find myself thinking it might be nice to live somewhere where I'd happen onto another rider more often than once a year.

[93legendti]

iirc, Swoop once had a rant about drafters...I think he called the area behind him his "personal space"

[Louis]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/plAOztyG2A7I2fLfz9m7rfFwFe8WVSY46OxMkKWFijkv1t7r10 f_FhF4Njy6MJWNGjPtzQ_tObVLyJzV4xcKxlTDxKQAeZ_vYCE7 JWVdC_AEaFnX8Q

[cloudguy]

Its really simple. I'm out on a long ride and it took a little longer than expected, cause of the wind or something. I gotta' get home cause I told my wife I'd be back by 4 to watch the kids. Man I'm tired and I wish I had something to eat. Oh here comes someone with fresh legs passing me, or maybe they're just faster than me period. If I just put in a little effort, I can get on there wheel and get home faster. Maybe I won't get yelled at after all.

I just don't get drafting strangers

[rileystylee]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

[bumknees]

Just keep in mind that some of the drafting on 9W in NJ/NY is likely due to police looking to ticket bikers not riding single file -- but I suppose you're talking about the more obvious rather than incidental cases.

[pcxmbfj]

Guy on the rear wheel also helps the guy in front so both benefit IMO.

[oldpotatoe]

Well said. I'm a skinny 140 lber. I had a fat old dude on my wheel yesterday after passing him. It was not appreciated. I enjoy my peace and quite sometimes.

"quiet",not 'quite', from this fat old dude.

[oldpotatoe]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

That is so funny.

[jr59]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wour8qxvpnk

outstanding!!!

[SpokeValley]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

"I'm not part of your race!"

Too funny. What a great prank.

[bfd]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

Now that's what I call a "Flash Mob!" :banana::butt::bike:

[Lanterne Rouge]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

Mwhahahahaha

[weisan]

check this out - would certainly make anyone go faster up those pesky hills:banana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOur8qXvpnk

Our version of harlem shake

[cachagua]

Guy on the rear wheel also helps the guy in front so both benefit IMO.

Interesting idea -- say more?

[one60]

nothing more annoying (& a bit frightening) then having some bonehead blaze around a bend in the path on his (its always a guy) aero bars, look up to see a family with a stroller & either swing wide into oncoming cyclists or graze the pedestrians as he squeezes by.

The lack of etiquette or good sense amazes me. I can't blame strava for a grown man thinking that by yelling 'on your left' to a 6-year old on his first bike ride, is safe or appropriate or good for the sport.

Rant over...

[bikemoore]

There is only one thing that I don't like about our roadie community: the felt need to tell everyone else how they ought to act and the resulting disapproval that comes with slightest "transgression" in fashion, equipment choice, riding habits, etc.

[bluesea]

^ +1

[rugbysecondrow]

There is only one thing that I don't like about our roadie community: the felt need to tell everyone else how they ought to act and the resulting disapproval that comes with slightest "transgression" in fashion, equipment choice, riding habits, etc.


There is no roadie community. If there is one thing I have noticed about roadies it is the absolute lack of community.

[mike p]

Big roadie community in my neck of the woods of upstate NY and they're nothing like bikemoore described. A great group of guys always willing to help out newbys!

Mike

[firerescuefin]

There is no roadie community. If there is one thing I have noticed about roadies it is the absolute lack of community.

Paul...they're out there. Group of folks I ride with are awesome....and certainly a community.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Things I don’t like about roadies.

Although they mean no harm, they can't help but judge (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=127344).

[rugbysecondrow]

Paul...they're out there. Group of folks I ride with are awesome....and certainly a community.

Sure, there are groups of people who ride and the culture of those groups may be positive, but that does not mean there is a "roadie community". I would liken this to Rugby. Nearly any bar in the USA, at any time, if I meet a fellow Rugby player, there is a sense of camaraderie and there will likely be a drink or two shared. Funny enough, at my local bike shop, a guy there used to play Rugby and that is all we talk about. Instantly there was a feeling community and association between the two of us...that didn't occur when he thought I was just a roadie.

It has been mentioned before, but cyclist, groups of cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming.

[gdw]

"It has been mentioned before, but road cyclist, groups of road cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, road cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming."

Fixed it for you. Mountain bikers are generally much friendlier and less judgemental.

[ultraman6970]

Wish I could ride in a group here in the area or organize a group myself but kinda complicated :) nobody looks friendly hehe +1 on that :D

[rugbysecondrow]

"It has been mentioned before, but road cyclist, groups of road cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, road cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming."

Fixed it for you. Mountain bikers are generally much friendlier and less judgemental.

You are correct.

[bcm119]

Sure, there are groups of people who ride and the culture of those groups may be positive, but that does not mean there is a "roadie community". I would liken this to Rugby. Nearly any bar in the USA, at any time, if I meet a fellow Rugby player, there is a sense of camaraderie and there will likely be a drink or two shared. Funny enough, at my local bike shop, a guy there used to play Rugby and that is all we talk about. Instantly there was a feeling community and association between the two of us...that didn't occur when he thought I was just a roadie.

It has been mentioned before, but cyclist, groups of cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming.

I have a non-cycling friend who was incredulous when he learned I was a cyclist. He said he'd never met a cyclist that wasn't a self-centered dick. I didn't bother refuting his theory, and part of me agreed with him. So yeah, I hear you on the above comment. I find that most cyclists, when they meet other cyclists, instead of instant bonding/sense of camaraderie there is instant passive-aggressive dick measuring.

[AgilisMerlin]

this is one strange thread

[shovelhd]

You unsociable people need to find a new club.

[fiataccompli]

interesting thread I was gonna stay away from. However, i have to say that the 'culture' that people are talking about around road cycling is part of what kept me away from organized/club cycling (even though I was an avid cyclist ) for years & years. Well, that and "kids" at bike shops implying that without the latest & greatest bike technology I was almost not going to be able to ride. I guess after all that time a combination of my growing enthusiasm along w/ a bit more of an open mind allowed me to slide into that 'culture' and get to know it a little better. I understand the need for some uniformity when it comes to safety & working together on the road, but I do see it bringing out the most unpleasant & anti-social in some peoples' personalities. Others, I've found, are true introverts concentrating on their sport & actually aren't quite what their impression led me to believe they are...if that makes any sense.

My answer is to try my best to be safe & helpful when riding in a group and to be friendly. Ironically, I tend to meditate in a way when I ride, so I'm not always chatting it up with everyone else, so now maybe I look like the dick. But, in my defense, I don't suck strangers wheels, I don't race on greenways, I always wave/greet other cyclists & I offer to help when I see someone struggling or with a mechanical problem.

[fuzzalow]

You unsociable people need to find a new club.

Not to single out this post but what is said here IMO is the core of what is enabling and encouraging of DB cyclist behaviour. The view of the sport/hobby/recreation as silos of in-group and out-groups.

Make up your own definition of in-group, e.g. racers, serious, tri, fit, disciplined, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't matter what the common bond is because it is never simply bicycling at large and bicycling at a level other than your own. It is always "earned entry" to a subculture. So the ridiculed bicycle rider is never viewed by the in-group to be a person who got looked down upon by the bigger group of like-minded in-group DBs, he/she is judged and labeled "unsociable".

I can assure you, any time you wish to witness the finest DB in cycling behaviour first hand, go under cover as a civilian. Ride a bike path with your spouse in Cape Cod or anywhere where the elite think a bike path belongs to the fast. The comments, the brush backs & fly-bys will astound you.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

[earlfoss]

There are idiots in every activity we do for fun. It's just as easy to call out MTB people, triathletes or model train enthusiasts on the a-holes in their respective "communities."

Blanket statements are ignorant and inflammatory. This makes it easy for internet forum chatters to get their fingers busy.

[rugbysecondrow]

Not to single out this post but what is said here IMO is the core of what is enabling and encouraging of DB cyclist behaviour. The view of the sport/hobby/recreation as silos of in-group and out-groups.

Make up your own definition of in-group, e.g. racers, serious, tri, fit, disciplined, etc, etc, etc. It doesn't matter what the common bond is because it is never simply bicycling at large and bicycling at a level other than your own. It is always "earned entry" to a subculture. So the ridiculed bicycle rider is never viewed by the in-group to be a person who got looked down upon by the bigger group of like-minded in-group DBs, he/she is judged and labeled "unsociable".

I can assure you, any time you wish to witness the finest DB in cycling behaviour first hand, go under cover as a civilian. Ride a bike path with your spouse in Cape Cod or anywhere where the elite think a bike path belongs to the fast. The comments, the brush backs & fly-bys will astound you.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

Amen. This was fresh yesterday as I arrived at the bike shop yesterday for a Skills Rodeo Clinic for kids. My neighbor and I both took our six year old kids there for the instruction. He was a bike messenger in San Fran, is a masters swimmer and a triathlete...me just a jack of all trades, but I am a rider as well. As we arrive, depart the mini-van with kids and little bikes in tow, we walk past a bunch of cyclists back from a group ride, all milling about. My neighbor and I both say hi and wave as we walk past...you would have thought we farted. As we walk past he says, "the worst part about cycling is the cyclists".

enough said.

[rugbysecondrow]

There are idiots in every activity we do for fun. It's just as easy to call out MTB people, triathletes or model train enthusiasts on the a-holes in their respective "communities."

Blanket statements are ignorant and inflammatory. This makes it easy for internet forum chatters to get their fingers busy.


Sorry my man, this is just not the case. When riders say this about their fellow hobbiests, what do you think the outsiders say?

[charliedid]

Cycling is a solitary experience for many of people...if I am out riding alone I planned it that way. Cycling is also about the gear at some level for most people. That said please don't roll up and chat with me about my bike. I am much more inclined to be chatty if you talk about the weather or how beautiful the trees are.

I'm also a runner but nobody has ever come up from behind me and said...Hi, how do you like those asics shoes?

Bikes

[christian]

I think these types of threads reveal more about the poster than their subjects.

[christian]

I'm also a runner but nobody has ever come up from behind me and said...Hi, how do you like those asics shoes?
This, fundamentally, is why running forums suck. There's only so much to discuss. My contribution to every thread is, "I really like my Kinvara IIs." Freaking hopeless.

[fiataccompli]

to me cycling must be all-welcoming as a sport. On the road, I think there is (or should be) a certain kinship with anyone on two wheels (including motorcycles) and I remind myself so as part of an effort to stay sane & centered. If you notice, motorcycle riders all wave (or gesture, I suppose) to each other as they pass on the road. Not too many years back, if you drove an old sports car (especially a roadster/convertible), you waved & maybe gave a quick horn honk when you passed another driver). At the bar, you might argue Harleys vs. crotch rockets or Italian vs. British, but at the core you were all out there enjoying what you love and you're gonna lend a hand & be supportive if you can. I always expected the same (and, well, simply act as if it's so) of cyclists.

(I know that veered OT, but I thought it was a good analogy)

[zap]

Sure, there are groups of people who ride and the culture of those groups may be positive, but that does not mean there is a "roadie community". I would liken this to Rugby. Nearly any bar in the USA, at any time, if I meet a fellow Rugby player, there is a sense of camaraderie and there will likely be a drink or two shared. Funny enough, at my local bike shop, a guy there used to play Rugby and that is all we talk about. Instantly there was a feeling community and association between the two of us...that didn't occur when he thought I was just a roadie.

It has been mentioned before, but cyclist, groups of cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming.

I largely agree with this.

Speaking of which.....yesterday's group ride was a serious eff fest. I have never seen such a large group of effing eff up's in lycra riding bicycles in my life. Fortunately all the little peacocks were doing the short loop and the ladies and I kept on heading further out.

[Bkat]

nothing more annoying (& a bit frightening) then having some bonehead blaze around a bend in the path on his (its always a guy) aero bars, look up to see a family with a stroller & either swing wide into oncoming cyclists or graze the pedestrians as he squeezes by.

The lack of etiquette or good sense amazes me. I can't blame strava for a grown man thinking that by yelling 'on your left' to a 6-year old on his first bike ride, is safe or appropriate or good for the sport.

Rant over...

That's not a rant. It's a good point. Last summer I watched as some idiot bombed it going downhill on the wrong side of a bike path into a group of oncoming cyclists, one of which was an 8 year old girl. Rather than move his you-know-what over, he let loose with this primal scream and scared the kid half to death. I caught up with him and his riding pal at the next intersection and chewed him out. Considering all the casual cyclists (i.e. upright bikes, street clothes, etc.) at the stop light with us, I figured getting a dressing down from another rider kitted out and riding a road bike might indicate that his behavior was not acceptable in any circles.

[sc53]

I largely agree with this.

Speaking of which.....yesterday's group ride was a serious eff fest. I have never seen such a large group of effing eff up's in lycra riding bicycles in my life. Fortunately all the little peacocks were doing the short loop and the ladies and I kept on heading further out.

Hahaha Zap were you riding with Potomac Pedalers? Always stick with the ladies on those rides. But even then, you may have trouble. Effed up people of both genders everywhere.

[cfox]

Sure, there are groups of people who ride and the culture of those groups may be positive, but that does not mean there is a "roadie community". I would liken this to Rugby. Nearly any bar in the USA, at any time, if I meet a fellow Rugby player, there is a sense of camaraderie and there will likely be a drink or two shared. Funny enough, at my local bike shop, a guy there used to play Rugby and that is all we talk about. Instantly there was a feeling community and association between the two of us...that didn't occur when he thought I was just a roadie.

It has been mentioned before, but cyclist, groups of cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming.

totally agree, my experience as well. I don't get too worked up about it, in fact I find it entertaining. There seems to be this pervasive insecurity that manifests itself in absurd posturing and competitiveness. The last group ride I rode in was cattier than the girls room at an 8th grade dance.

[zott28]

Has anyone mentioned the Golden Gate Bridge on this thread yet?

It's mixed use. On the weekends the ocean side is open for bikes, and the bay side is for peds. The bikes are a mix of cyclist going to Marin to ride, and tourist on rented bikes looking at a modern marvel, and the biggest tourist attraction in the City. It's a mile and a half, on the other side is some of the best riding around. You'd think the cyclists can chill out and make it safer. Ture the tourist have their head up the ass, but they are there to have fun. They are going to stop and take pictures. Slow down and chill out before someone goes over the rail.
I don't want to even want to talk about the weekdays when peds and bikes need to share the bayside.

Rant over.

[fuzzalow]

Has anyone mentioned the Golden Gate Bridge on this thread yet?

It's mixed use.

As I had pointed out DB cyclists crimes and misdemeanors earlier in their behaviour on the Cape Cod Rail Trail/MUT. And the same DB behaviour found elsewhere and everywhere. A simple rule for MUT decency and survival needs to be stated:

On the MUT the right of way belongs to the slowest.

Bikes yield to pedestrians, pedestrians yield to senior citizens with walkers, senior citizens with walkers yield to crawling infants. An underlying concept not too hard to grasp I trust.

Want to blow past in your 53x11? Do it out in traffic with the big boys.

No way to get to where you're going but the MUT? Too bad, life isn't fair.

[RFC]

Outside of a race/group ride someone latching on to another rider immediately puts the burden of responsibility of safety, line selection, signaling hazards, not doing anything unexpected etc. on the front rider.

The front rider didn't ask for that and may not want that. If you've ridden in enough pacelines, things happen, wheels overlap, derailleur hangers are broken, riders go down, groups go off the road. Yeah, it's quite rare, but by not recognizing the increased risks, the person who latches on and doesn't check in tells me that they likely don't recognize/know those risks, so why would I assume they are safe behind me? How can I know that they know proper paceline etiquette, hand position and safety?

I think it's very inconsiderate to unexpectedly put this burden on a random front rider who maybe is just out there to concentrate on their own thing. If he/she wanted to be pulling in a paceline/group... they probably would be.


I love a good roadie rant in the morning.

This is exactly my position. It's a safety and courtesy issue. When I come up on another rider's wheel, I always announce that I'm there and ask if it's OK. When someone gets on my wheel without notice, I tell them to get off and if they don't I pull out of the line or take other more drastic action.

Once, after telling some jerk to get off and he didn't, I took him on a ride that included roundabouts, speed bumps, and ended with me jumping a curb. His distress was audible. If he wants to follow me, then he can follow me right up the curb.

Oh, BTW, believe me, drafting up a hill (say at 15 mph plus) does make a difference, particularly when I'm riding SS.

[Tom]

It took a while but I finally got the MUT thing, particularly the fly-by. Going west of town its the best way out, so I am on it a lot. Normally I would slow way down and if somebody looked competent I'd just coast on by. Even that seems to startle some people so now I pretty much stop if I think there's any question. I can only track stand for a couple of seconds but now that seems to confuse people. I do it anyway.

Except for when I meet that old guy that I often meet coming the other way. The first couple times I slowed and gave him room he started yelling "You're going too fast! Slow down! Slow down!" so now I accelerate to piss him off.

And I really agree about the people that attach to my wheel without saying anything. It happens very rarely mostly because I try to avoid if I come up behind and if somebody catches me they really don't want to get slowed down that much. I go slow pretty much all the time. I just don't like it because I do tend to blow my nose or spit or wander around if I don't know anybody's there. Plus I talk to myself or sing and that feels odd when I realize somebody's heard me muttering whatever unedited weirdness bubbles out of my psyche like swamp gas.

[Cdub]

I recently ventured out to Phoenix on three occasions with a road bike. I took race kit and non race kit. I went out most every day and the one thing that stood out no matter what I wore was other cyclists were not friendly. I even stopped by a really nice shop and recieved the same repsonse. I asked questions about rides etc and it was like pulling teeth to get any info. At one point the owner said you can join a ride, but not sure how long you would last. With that comment, I laughed and left the store. I will always be friendly and wave to everyone. Sure glad I like riding by myself.

Soccer players are possibly as bad. I played all the way through college and could never understand the arrogance. I loved punishing them om the field.

Oh well, I'll keep waiving and helping other riders when in need.

Cheers.

[LesMiner]

This is my latest encounter with a not so courteous rider. Last Thursday the temp went over 50 but with a NW wind 15 to 20 mph. I started out into the head wind. Half way I stopped to eat and drink a little on the road's edge. This road had been newly paved with 8 foot paved shoulders on either side. A popular place to ride. As I stood there this rider comes from behind says something which I did not recognize. He was close enough there was a doppler effect to whatever he uttered when he passed by. I was a bit startled since he was going maybe 18 to 20 mph. Also along the vehicle lane edge parallel to the white painted line are rumble strips ground into the pavement. That left about 3 feet between me and the rumble strips for him to pass. He could have gone out into the lane, no traffic at all at this point but chose not to.

So was he at fault for passing close at a high speed? Or me for just being in the way?

I did not yell, flip the "bird", or throw anything at this rider. I just let him go. I took my time to start my way back. The rider was maybe a half mile ahead of me. I took the challenge to chase him down. At this point I now had a tail wind since I was on my way back home. It was easy to go over 20 mph. Within a short time I was relatively close so I could tell what he riding, a flat bar bike with 25 or 28 mm size tires pedaling at 95 rpm or so. I held back at about 50 feet. When a straight part of the road came up with no traffic, I went through a gap in the rumble strips into the vehicle lane. I gave him a wide birth. I said hi and waved so he could acknowledge me as I passed. I returned to the shoulder through another gap in the rumble strips. The road came into a area of open fields and curved so that the wind was a full on tail wind. I geared up and pushed my speed to 35 mph and enjoyed the tail wind for 4 or 5 miles at 30+ mph. I dropped the rider right away. He made no effort to keep up or catch me at all.

I suppose I could have blown by him the way he did to me. Just more road rage besides I worked off any anger catching up to him. Once I got closer to him I began to see he was not that strong a rider. I do not more confrontation in my life.

I also get the MUT issues. I use a MUT as part of my commute to avoid a limited access highway. It runs along the Mississippi and many people are walking, riding, roller blading, skate boarding, etc. Also mothers with a stroller and maybe a todler walking along. Even though it breaks up my rush to push up my average commute speed I give them all the right of way. I may even have to come to a complete stop. There is a couple of small bridges crossing a stream going into the river. All kinds of people fish from the bridge or near it. They got all their stuff layed out around them. I just smile and slowly make my way through. I could just a well be one of those people with a stroller, or fishing, or a senior citizen couple out for a stroll. One needs to respect the other trail users.

[zap]

Hahaha Zap were you riding with Potomac Pedalers? Always stick with the ladies on those rides. But even then, you may have trouble. Effed up people of both genders everywhere.

No.

I did a Pedalers ride Saturday. It was a cool ride into Howard County.

Anyhow, you know some of us met ladies who would become our wives on Pedalers rides.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Things I don’t like about roadies.

Samples of Roadies being complete DB's are a dime a dozen. There are 2 in the below example.

...
Once, after telling some jerk to get off and he didn't, I took him on a ride that included roundabouts, speed bumps, and ended with me jumping a curb. His distress was audible. If he wants to follow me, then he can follow me right up the curb...

[RFC]

Samples of Roadies being complete DB's are a dime a dozen. There are 2 in the below example.

LOL! Point well taken!

The air was heavy with testosterone that day.

[Elefantino]

"It has been mentioned before, but road cyclist, groups of road cyclists are some of the most unfriendly athletes you will find. Of all the sports I have played, no small number, road cyclists are the least friendly and least welcoming."
True, for the most part. It was not that way, however, before Lance Armstrong. With him came DB-ary.

[gemship]

my thing is they probably get to ride a lot more than I do!

Although the weather is getting nicer I got a new job and just don't have the time to ride as much. I also have lots of house/yard work to do and a I like riding my motocycle, so you guys that call yourselves roadies I am envious of.
:p

as far as being passed it's usually on slight uphill flats if that makes sense by dedicated older riders lately, they look 45 to 55 to my 39:rolleyes:

[Jaq]

True, for the most part. It was not that way, however, before Lance Armstrong. With him came DB-ary.

+infinity, man. People were just different then. Nicer. Cleaner. Thinner. Prettier. No one cheated, talked smack, showed off, or sucked a wheel. Drivers would carefully maneuver around you if traffic was heavy. Dealers would replace components no-questions-asked. If a cyclist saw another cyclist with a problem, they'd not only offer to help, but insist on paying for the repair. You'd never race on the road because everyone back then understood that, if you wanted to race, you put on a number come Sunday. Even so, on the rare-as-hens'-teeth occasion when someone would show off a little derring-do, the winner of all such contests was only too happy to buy the loser all the imported beer he could drink.

Bikes were faster, tubbies lasted longer, and there was never any glass in the road. We all perspired half as much, could ride twice as far, and all on a fun-sized Snickers.

Effing LA. Ruined it for everyone.

[shovelhd]

Not to single out this post but what is said here IMO is the core of what is enabling and encouraging of DB cyclist behaviour. The view of the sport/hobby/recreation as silos of in-group and out-groups.

Well that certainly was not my intent to portray it that way. What I meant was very simple. If your club is composed of a bunch of groups that don't talk to each other, that don't support each other, that are not welcoming and supportive of the cycling community outside the club, then you need to find a new club.

I don't race for the club I belong to, I am just a member in good standing. We do a lot to promote cycling, advocate for safety, welcome new riders, mentor new racers. Plenty of times I have stuck with someone who was over their head on a group ride to make sure they got back safely. Everybody does it. Training is secondary.

[rugbysecondrow]

I recently ventured out to Phoenix on three occasions with a road bike. I took race kit and non race kit. I went out most every day and the one thing that stood out no matter what I wore was other cyclists were not friendly. I even stopped by a really nice shop and recieved the same repsonse. I asked questions about rides etc and it was like pulling teeth to get any info. At one point the owner said you can join a ride, but not sure how long you would last. With that comment, I laughed and left the store. I will always be friendly and wave to everyone. Sure glad I like riding by myself.

Soccer players are possibly as bad. I played all the way through college and could never understand the arrogance. I loved punishing them om the field.

Oh well, I'll keep waiving and helping other riders when in need.

Cheers.

Traveling in Oklahoma City, I brought my bike and stopped at a large local shop. The folks there were completely unhelpful. The didn't even care the least to point me in the right direction or show me the best way to get to the paved paths around the river. I even bought two water bottles, think that me being a customer might help. Nope.

[shovelhd]

Terrible.

[beeatnik]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=kids-smiles-predict-their-future

[Clydesdale]

Today's ride... met three guys going the opposite direction, 2 on road and one one a short section of bike trail. I went 0 for 3 with waves and "hey" and the last guy even seemed to kind of sneer at me around the camelback nozzle in his mouth. I know most of the cyclists in the area and didn't recognize any of them but it was one of our first days nice enough to see anyone else out there. I feel like I have seen it enough to develop the theory that a lot of road guys tend to be kind of self-centered when they are riding?

I guess the other explanation could be there's something about me that screams "don't acknowledge him!" :eek:

[buddybikes]

In 1974, at age 16 friend and I took off and rode 85 miles to my grandmothers house on the northeast coast of MA. Part of the way there we hooked up with Dick Ring and leading his group of developing racers. Dick sat us in the middle of the pack, and had his group change their ride for a while. He advised us how to ride in a pack. His guys he shouted to them to drop their gears and spin, since we weren't at their speed. That one ride taught me so much about cycling. Would that ever happen again for a youngster?

[Roger M]

Unneeded post

[DarkStar]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if someone wants to sit on my wheel while I climb it means either:
Gee, I must be strong today
Gee, there actually is someone who sucks worse than me on hills

Either way, I'm feeling pretty good.
Yes!

[shovelhd]

Dick Ring

I hadn't seen him in decades until two years ago at Exeter. Just like I remembered him. What a great asset to Northeast cycling.

[93legendti]

I've been riding with the same group for 17 years. There's a lot more I like about roadies than I don't like. A lot of them come into the shop. Nice people.

[rwsaunders]

When I'm out riding, I wave to cyclists, runners, walkers, dog walkers, cops, squirrels...you name it. Whether I pass them, they pass me or they're going the other way, I wave to them. If they don't care to respond, not my worry, I'm just another guy on a bike who's enjoying the ride.

[Shortsocks]

When you're on a ride with other "fast roadies" and they look at you Funny because you aren't riding aero wheels.
-wow, someone not riding aero wheels that can outclimb and "keep up" with a Venge with aero wheels.....what a concept.

[EDS]

This is my latest encounter with a not so courteous rider. Last Thursday the temp went over 50 but with a NW wind 15 to 20 mph. I started out into the head wind. Half way I stopped to eat and drink a little on the road's edge. This road had been newly paved with 8 foot paved shoulders on either side. A popular place to ride. As I stood there this rider comes from behind says something which I did not recognize. He was close enough there was a doppler effect to whatever he uttered when he passed by. I was a bit startled since he was going maybe 18 to 20 mph. Also along the vehicle lane edge parallel to the white painted line are rumble strips ground into the pavement. That left about 3 feet between me and the rumble strips for him to pass. He could have gone out into the lane, no traffic at all at this point but chose not to.

So was he at fault for passing close at a high speed? Or me for just being in the way?

I did not yell, flip the "bird", or throw anything at this rider. I just let him go. I took my time to start my way back. The rider was maybe a half mile ahead of me. I took the challenge to chase him down. At this point I now had a tail wind since I was on my way back home. It was easy to go over 20 mph. Within a short time I was relatively close so I could tell what he riding, a flat bar bike with 25 or 28 mm size tires pedaling at 95 rpm or so. I held back at about 50 feet. When a straight part of the road came up with no traffic, I went through a gap in the rumble strips into the vehicle lane. I gave him a wide birth. I said hi and waved so he could acknowledge me as I passed. I returned to the shoulder through another gap in the rumble strips. The road came into a area of open fields and curved so that the wind was a full on tail wind. I geared up and pushed my speed to 35 mph and enjoyed the tail wind for 4 or 5 miles at 30+ mph. I dropped the rider right away. He made no effort to keep up or catch me at all.

I suppose I could have blown by him the way he did to me. Just more road rage besides I worked off any anger catching up to him. Once I got closer to him I began to see he was not that strong a rider. I do not more confrontation in my life.

I also get the MUT issues. I use a MUT as part of my commute to avoid a limited access highway. It runs along the Mississippi and many people are walking, riding, roller blading, skate boarding, etc. Also mothers with a stroller and maybe a todler walking along. Even though it breaks up my rush to push up my average commute speed I give them all the right of way. I may even have to come to a complete stop. There is a couple of small bridges crossing a stream going into the river. All kinds of people fish from the bridge or near it. They got all their stuff layed out around them. I just smile and slowly make my way through. I could just a well be one of those people with a stroller, or fishing, or a senior citizen couple out for a stroll. One needs to respect the other trail users.

You are upset that someone passed you while you were standing on the side of the road? I don't understand, should he have stopped? I don't see why he can't continue his ride. 3 feet seems like a very reasonable and safe passing distance to me, but maybe I am doing to wrong.

[charliedid]

Unneeded post

This one or the OP?

Please confirm

[charliedid]

This, fundamentally, is why running forums suck. There's only so much to discuss. My contribution to every thread is, "I really like my Kinvara IIs." Freaking hopeless.

Ha no kidding!

"Which socks for a 5 miler?" Please discuss..

[EDS]

Traveling in Oklahoma City, I brought my bike and stopped at a large local shop. The folks there were completely unhelpful. The didn't even care the least to point me in the right direction or show me the best way to get to the paved paths around the river. I even bought two water bottles, think that me being a customer might help. Nope.

That sounds like a shop that will be going out of business. Did you ask for directions and they ignored you? We probably should have a sticky thread about shops people have had positive experiences with.

[AgilisMerlin]

such a strange thread.

most of the time just give a nod or smile to passerby's when i ride. I do not like group situations when a rider(s) make a mistake and potentially cause a crash. If an accident happens i tend to stop.


most of the time i am in my own little world. not thinking about much or thiking tooooo much. i am on the road 300x a year. you get the idea.

is this a politically correct thread?

post edit: i have been pleasant,asswhole,clueless,focused,accident causing, near miss, hands raised to holy heaven, grovelling, numb, elated, happy, friendly, snarky, type of rider. changes as the wheel turns.

[nm87710]

??

[Roger M]

This one or the OP?

Please confirm

Mine

[charliedid]

Mine

Roger that..over

[William]

Why all the hate for people who don't believe or act like YOU??

It's a dangerous slippery slope once you start heading down...


People have a hierarchy of understanding and behavior - things that drive what they do, say, and are:

Beliefs (What's real to you) --> Values (What's important, what's not important) --> Morals (Right and wrong)--> Ethics (The rules you make)



Beliefs - At the lowest level are beliefs, these are things you hold to be true. These are not necessarily objective truths (diamond is harder than chalk) but often subjective truths: One can believe with absolute sincerity that the world is flat or round; that God does or does not exist; that people are basically good or basically selfish; Riding clinchers is just fine. Beliefs are our internal assumptions about the world and they lay the foundation for everything we do or say.

Values - Of all the things we believe, some are more important than others. If you believe that God only allows prayer for healing and you believe your child will die without an operation, which choice do you make? If you believe that politeness is critical to society but also believe that a certain individual only responds to anger, what do you do? You can see values in actions far more easily then you can in words. Beliefs and values, generally, are very deeply planted and not always conscious.

Morals - Morals derive from Values and are your vague gut-level feelings about what is right and wrong. All the things you "just know are wrong" without being able to explain why constitute your morals.

Ethics - Ethics are your personal code, the general rules that you make up for yourself to try to put your morals into words.


In an argument or disagreement, the deeper the level, the more difficult the argument. A disagreement at the Ethics level can be friendly and reasoned. An argument at the belief level, however can be very much an attack on identity (Campy vs Shimano, tubulars vs clinchers, religion and politics). If you can explain yourself from a deeper level you are far more likely to get the other person to comprehend your point of view.

When we are talking about getting snubbed by another group, what level does a person feel is being violated? It strikes a chord on a personal level which would indicate a hit on values or beliefs. Is that taken as an attack on ones identity?







William

PS: I'm paraphrasing something I read in "Facing Violence" by Rory Miller

[cachagua]

"People like me don't get along with people like me."

--Andrew Sullivan

[Joachim]

PS: I'm paraphrasing something I read in "Facing Violence" by Rory Miller

You should've left our the part of paraphrasing ^^ and just include a dancing Yoda banana (bet you can't find that one).

[William]

You should've left our the part of paraphrasing ^^ and just include a dancing Yoda banana (bet you can't find that one).

How about a dancing Yoda with a banana....

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs28/f/2008/106/9/4/Yoda_spins_with_a_banana_by_shardyhaha.gif








http://www.smokinvette.com/corvetteforum/images/smilies/banana.gif
William

[vav]

:p
http://www.theonion.com/articles/coworker-with-fluorescent-bike-vest-treats-office,31980/

[firerescuefin]

FWIW...3 of my best friends are people I met on local training rides in places I've lived. We get together at least once a year at different locations for 4-5 days to ride. Just started to ride/race with colorado riders club CRC in South Denver area....great folks and welcoming to all levels.


Moral of the story...don't throw out the good with the bad...and make an effort to meet new folks before you pass judgement on them.

[torquer]

It took a while but I finally got the MUT thing, particularly the fly-by. Going west of town its the best way out, so I am on it a lot. Normally I would slow way down and if somebody looked competent I'd just coast on by. Even that seems to startle some people so now I pretty much stop if I think there's any question. I can only track stand for a couple of seconds but now that seems to confuse people. I do it anyway.
This past winter I added a bell to my "cockpit" (BSNY reference here), and it has improved my MUT experience 100%.
REI had about 8 or 10 to choose from; tried them all, bought the nicest sounding one (Italian, but not the priciest!) and now I don't need to worry about how my "on your left" will be understood. (Most peds seem to think they should move left in response.) A nice, cheery "ding-ding" gets almost everyone's attention without getting in their face, and most everyone pulls up on their dog's flexi-leash, corrals their toddler, etc. The little kids on their bikes usually react with a smile, too, and occasionally return the favor with their own bell.
I don't use the MUT for TTing, so if I have to slow down it's no big deal, and I don't ring the bell for everyone I go by, only those I suspect would be startled, or are far enough to the left that any sudden change in their direction could put me off the pavement (no fun on a fixed gear).
I also tend not to use it when passing "serious" roadies, but I try to make a point of acknowledging them, and if they feel like chatting, great. Explaining the benefits (and limitations) of fixed-gear training is a great ice-breaker. And come to think of it, I've probably had more of those discussions with folks on mountain bikes than on road bikes. Maybe those MTBers just have more time.

[54ny77]

I see your Yoda and raise you one squirrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2F2C8yY8n8


How about a dancing Yoda with a banana....

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs28/f/2008/106/9/4/Yoda_spins_with_a_banana_by_shardyhaha.gif








http://www.smokinvette.com/corvetteforum/images/smilies/banana.gif
William

[Elefantino]

Why all the hate for people who don't believe or act like YOU??

It's a dangerous slippery slope once you start heading down...
Yes it is, and welcome to America 2013.

When I have told some people where I work, they respond by saying, "Oh, I don't read your paper. I only get my news from (fill in fringe media source of your choice)."

:fight:

[Lanterne Rouge]

All I said is that I didn't want unwanted roadies on my wheel - I didn't think this thread would go the way it's gone and polarise opinion so much.:confused:

[lhuerta]

In 1974, at age 16 friend and I took off and rode 85 miles to my grandmothers house on the northeast coast of MA. Part of the way there we hooked up with Dick Ring and leading his group of developing racers. Dick sat us in the middle of the pack, and had his group change their ride for a while. He advised us how to ride in a pack. His guys he shouted to them to drop their gears and spin, since we weren't at their speed. That one ride taught me so much about cycling. Would that ever happen again for a youngster?

+1...the way it should be!


As for the rest of this thread...if you are constantly worried about people “sneeking up” and riding your wheel, then you are going TOO SLOW….stop your bitching and ride your ride!

This thread is an unfortunate illustration of how our cycling community has taken a big step backwards in its evolution. Rather then chatting with or acknowledging your fellow cyclist who might ride up behind or beside you, some of you are suggesting (perhaps unknowingly, I hope) engaging in subtle or explicit road rage. We are talking about bikes still, right?

Being part of a community means engaging your community. If I am out riding and someone “sneeks up” behind me, I ride my ride and let them enjoy my draft (PS-there is no such thing as someone sneeking up, if you are surprised then YOU are not paying attention). If I sense they are crossing wheels or doing the herky-jerky then I engage them and cordially share a few tips on pacelining. I take responsibility in conversing with and guiding, not shunning, those who might still be learning the ropes. I am also not shamed by those who pass me, and I certainly don’t chase them down.

Lets keep some perspective folks. If this is your behavior on bikes I dread to know what type of driver you are.

Respectfully,
lou

[Elefantino]

All I said is that I didn't want unwanted roadies on my wheel - I didn't think this thread would go the way it's gone and polarise opinion so much.:confused:
For your next thread, you must use the following ingredients:

"Serotta"
"price"
"dentists"
and smoked yak cheeks

You have 30 minutes. Time starts now.

[tkbike]

I have been living and riding in the Saratoga area since 1979, conservatively 3000 miles a year for a total of 100,000 miles. I am on my 5th Serotta so the ride has not changed, but the roadie attitude has changed over time. Twenty years ago it would not have mattered what you were wearing or riding, everybody was friendly and asked if it was ok for a pull.

It's amazing today the different attitude you get when you are wearing MTB shorts and a ripped t-shirt from when your wearing a 'roadie kit' riding the same bike...maybe it is because of my size..6'3" 210lbs. Now I ride the Fierte wearing MTB clothes with no wheel suckers...Ahhh alone...just the way I want!

This is the reason I now spend more time on the trails than on the road, no roadie attitude. Rode the Luther trails last night and the SMBA trails tonight, how many times do you ride and total strangers offer you a beer from their cooler at the end of the night? It doesn't matter what your riding, $6K NINER or $600 dicks special...it's all good!!!!!!!

See you in the woods, lets share an IPA!

[pdmtong]

I was not aware of this. I will attempt to avoid any fun on my rides tomorrow and Sunday. I suppose saying "Wheeeeee!" on the downhills is strictly frowned upon?

once I go going down past me did in fact yell "wheeeeeeee"

I almost stopped from laughter. it was just too funny

[Lanterne Rouge]

For your next thread, you must use the following ingredients:

"Serotta"
"price"
"dentists"
and smoked yak cheeks

You have 30 minutes. Time starts now.

I really want a smoked yak cheek sandwich now :banana: but what cheese would work and what bread?

[bcm119]

For your next thread, you must use the following ingredients:

"Serotta"
"price"
"dentists"
and smoked yak cheeks

You have 30 minutes. Time starts now.

you forgot "tuna fish sandwich"

[mike p]

I tried to hit the "like" button but realized we don't have one over here!

Mike


+1...the way it should be!


As for the rest of this thread...if you are constantly worried about people “sneeking up” and riding your wheel, then you are going TOO SLOW….stop your bitching and ride your ride!

This thread is an unfortunate illustration of how our cycling community has taken a big step backwards in its evolution. Rather then chatting with or acknowledging your fellow cyclist who might ride up behind or beside you, some of you are suggesting (perhaps unknowingly, I hope) engaging in subtle or explicit road rage. We are talking about bikes still, right?

Being part of a community means engaging your community. If I am out riding and someone “sneeks up” behind me, I ride my ride and let them enjoy my draft (PS-there is no such thing as someone sneeking up, if you are surprised then YOU are not paying attention). If I sense they are crossing wheels or doing the herky-jerky then I engage them and cordially share a few tips on pacelining. I take responsibility in conversing with and guiding, not shunning, those who might still be learning the ropes. I am also not shamed by those who pass me, and I certainly don’t chase them down.

Lets keep some perspective folks. If this is your behavior on bikes I dread to know what type of driver you are.

Respectfully,
lou

[soulspinner]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you're looking to be pulled up a hill, I can tell you I don't have lungs but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you get off my rear wheel now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will take you on the descent.

:)

[soulspinner]

Yes it is, and welcome to America 2013.

When I have told some people where I work, they respond by saying, "Oh, I don't read your paper. I only get my news from (fill in fringe media source of your choice)."

:fight:

Yes!

[slidey]

The hell :cool:...ur the banana guy from now on.

And we all know what that means...there's always money in the banana stand! :banana:

How about a dancing Yoda with a banana....

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs28/f/2008/106/9/4/Yoda_spins_with_a_banana_by_shardyhaha.gif








http://www.smokinvette.com/corvetteforum/images/smilies/banana.gif
William

[reggiebaseball]

once I go going down past me did in fact yell "wheeeeeeee"

I almost stopped from laughter. it was just too funny

every Paceline thread you find some way to make fun of me.
:butt:

[cash05458]

been thinking about this for a few days...and hesitant to say...but the hell with it...everyone I ever rode with in belgie...well, all working class guys and good to the bone...just no BS...honest folks no matter what the problems were...personally, I don't like roadies in AMERICA at all...too much class stuff all the while pretending they don't have a money/class problem...too much attitude...something gets mutated coming across the ocean via who rides bike...even in liberal Vermont, I ride alone...don't want to listen to the bs and attitude and there is so much of it here...biking here is too much the rich guy thing and that brings so much crap...sure I will take alot of flack for that...but it is my view...

[Black Dog]

I have a non-cycling friend who was incredulous when he learned I was a cyclist. He said he'd never met a cyclist that wasn't a self-centered dick. I didn't bother refuting his theory, and part of me agreed with him. So yeah, I hear you on the above comment. I find that most cyclists, when they meet other cyclists, instead of instant bonding/sense of camaraderie there is instant passive-aggressive dick measuring.

This has a large grain of truth to it. Once people get over themselves and stop taking themselves seriously they actually enjoy the simple pleasure of riding a bike and start to find their long lost humanity. Anyone on any bike is a fellow cyclist.

[1/2 Wheeler]

If this thread gives an anywhere near accurate account of "roadie's" opinion of "roadies", it is no wonder why most of the non cycling community dislikes us so much.

[firerescuefin]

If this thread gives an anywhere near accurate account of "roadie's" opinion of "roadies", it is no wonder why most of the non cycling community dislikes us so much.

I wonder what percentage that posted are perceived by others as the @hole they complain about in this thread. You want better neighbors....be a better neighbor.

[rugbysecondrow]

I wonder what percentage that posted are perceived by others as the @hole they complain about in this thread. You want better neighbors....be a better neighbor.

On the surface that makes sense, wherever you go, there you are. There is such a common thread of roadies being dicks that A) it can't easily be blamed on the individual B) It seems many of us are relaying experiences with cyclists (roadies) relative to other sports...roadies a pretty bad.

Maybe the sport just draws a certain type of person. Maybe, as others have pointed out, it is the Lance Effect. I can't say as I came to this activity in 2007, so I have no prior to Lance experience.

What I do know, roadies and cyclists have a bad reputation across the board, across society. That is not an individual problem.

[fuzzalow]

Certain roadies are DBs of the highest order. Unfathomable as to depth of their self preoccupation and insecurity. One could not be a better neighbor to this crowd because they don't GAS about meeting you and deciding your merits as you have already been prejudged.

I've given as an example of being pegged as a civilian bicyclist by DB Roadies (DBR) on the MUT. Easy pickings for obtuse DBR to ID this obvious bicycle pleb because I am on a MTB wearing cargo shorts, topsiders and a T shirt. What DBR doesn't see is the posture (even on a MTB), the line (dead straight) and the stroke (because every suburban Dad that rents a MTB lazily spins a crank @ 90rpm).

This is what DBR does versus what really occurred:

DBR & patronizing comments: "Really Nice bike!!!" sarcasm, "You gotta be on the right, watch it, keep it straight"
In reality: Already riding the right edge, rollers-straight tracking path

Brushback: DBR in opposite direction but not passing you while being fully to his right
In reality: Allowing for separation and having DBR reduce that safety gap purposefully because you see him move to his left on approach

Fly-by: DBR overtaking by not moving fully to his left and chopping across within less than a 1/2 wheel in moving back to his right
In reality: This behavior is discourteous, unsafe and vain-glorious in its insistence in intent to be noticed, like a spoiled 6 year old child

A civilian bicyclist sees this. A civilian bicyclist is not interested in joining the cult. A civilian bicyclist did not engender or solicit this response. A civilian bicyclist might form an opinion in response to these actions that all serious cyclists are ass_oles.

And they would be wrong because not all cyclists are ass_oles but it is also hard to argue against their truth based on what they experienced and saw.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

[AgilisMerlin]

hard to argue against their truth based on what they experienced and saw.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

We have met the enemy and he/she is us.

a little more accurate, maybe

[e-RICHIE]

We have met the enemy and he/she is us.

a little more accurate, maybe

Exactly atmo. We're all cyclists. Some compete. Some only train. Some ride on the trails.
And some commute. I am sure if you took any other discipline, trade, or segment you'd find
DBs - assuming it means that much to you to look, and then to call attention to your personal
findings and biases.

[jr59]

Exactly atmo. We're all cyclists. Some compete. Some only train. Some ride on the trails.
And some commute. I am sure if you took any other discipline, trade, or segment you'd find
DBs - assuming it means that much to you to look, and then to call attention to your personal
findings and biases.

A LOT of wisdom on this last at this time page.
And for the most part I rarely agree with e-richie!


We are our own worst enemy.

[AgilisMerlin]

A LOT of wisdom on this last at this time page.
And for the most part I rarely agree with e-richie!


We are our own worst enemy.


sometimes, and or maybe

[dd74]

Sorry I'm late to this thread...

I don't normally draft unless I at least first say hello to the cyclist in front and establish a rapport. If a stranger wants to draft off me, that's fine just as long as when on a downhill or sketchy portion of road, they back off and away from me.

[chengher87]

My favorite roadies are the ones that criticize my aluminum bike as I blow past them on their $3000 carbon fiber bikes up a climb. Bike snobbery is quite prevalent and contagious in the peloton, but appreciated because sometimes I get huge discounts on those same carbon fiber bikes when they realize what a colossal waste of money it was (not the bike, but the purchase of a bike they ride once or twice a year)!

[canadasteep]

Outside of a race/group ride someone latching on to another rider immediately puts the burden of responsibility of safety, line selection, signaling hazards, not doing anything unexpected etc. on the front rider.

The front rider didn't ask for that and may not want that. If you've ridden in enough pacelines, things happen, wheels overlap, derailleur hangers are broken, riders go down, groups go off the road. Yeah, it's quite rare, but by not recognizing the increased risks, the person who latches on and doesn't check in tells me that they likely don't recognize/know those risks, so why would I assume they are safe behind me? How can I know that they know proper paceline etiquette, hand position and safety?

I think it's very inconsiderate to unexpectedly put this burden on a random front rider who maybe is just out there to concentrate on their own thing. If he/she wanted to be pulling in a paceline/group... they probably would be.

Totally on point.

[dd74]

I rode with two very good riders today, one a girl who's just beginning to race, but had really good skills, and the second a racer on a fixie (probably a track guy). Neither drafted off me. Both were very good roadies. I guess you really have to pick your poison with whom ever else is out there on the road.

[canadasteep]

Some people are cool i.e. nice, friendly, or, at least open to weather-esque chit-chat.

Some aren't.

Some are overtly focused and it just narrows them down
to the point where basic civility is a nuisance.

Tech-talk I get - You have to break the ice somehow.
If that's all someone is interested in, well that's another story, but how
else are you going to know if you don't chance it?
And at a certain point, tech talk can get old.

>>I do agree that due to safety, theirs and mine, if someone I didn't know were to be right behind me, I'd feel uneasy.
Getting taken out at speed is not fun.
Similarly, I try not to draft/be too close on group rides: These are weeklies that are post-work socials.
I like some space when out on scenic route, and not always the rear of someone's saddle.
The freedom to lookaround, and to not worry about slowing down in spots is part of what makes me want to ride.

[fuzzalow]

We have met the enemy and he/she is us.

a little more accurate, maybe

It isn't my intent to prolong this exchange but I am responding because this is a false and insignificant correction to make to my post. "We have met the enemy and he is us" clearly is a pronoun referring back to the enemy and not at something gender specific. RIF. C'mon, now really.

But even taking your correction literally: DBR as perpetrated by women together in their own single gender peloton, or rarer still, by a solitary woman rider - I have never experienced it or even witnessed it. They simply go about their business. In fairness to gender, many male riders also just go about their business.

DBR is predominantly a red mist, testosterone fueled province of:
- single DBR foisted to civilian bicyclists, IMO because DBR thinks their superior fitness will avoid a confrontation because they cannot be caught on the roadway, or
- group of DBRs to any other group with inferior numbers, including solitary riders.

I don't take umbrage to this behavior, it is what it is. But I don't obfuscate, minimize or deny its existence either. The irony is the DBRs elevate themselves and this fantasized superiority invokes poor treatment to other cyclists. No concept of Noblesse Oblige to the sport for this crowd.

[cfox]

My favorite roadies are the ones that criticize my aluminum bike as I blow past them on their $3000 carbon fiber bikes up a climb. Bike snobbery is quite prevalent and contagious in the peloton, but appreciated because sometimes I get huge discounts on those same carbon fiber bikes when they realize what a colossal waste of money it was (not the bike, but the purchase of a bike they ride once or twice a year)!

People have actually verbally criticized your bike while on the road? I have witnessed plenty of douchey behavior, but never that. I always thought that was a myth. If true, it's sad and pathetic. In your case, I'd think the guys on fancy bikes would be more prone to ridicule than a fast dude on a cheap bike.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I always let them know I'm behind them, usually by saying gently "right behind you." This works equally well with all levels of cyclist.

If somebody came up and started sucking my wheel without saying anything I'd say something gently at first to determine if they even realize what they are doing is rude. Many people simply don't realize it.

If I determine they do realize it and are doing it anyway, then I'll either slow down till they get impatient and pass or if they are really douchey about it I'll drop the hammer and ride them off my wheel. But no squirrelly swerves or some such.

BUT . . . If it's anyone I can determine for certain is a Paceline member, then I activate the thumbtack dispenser concealed in my seat bag and then swerve violently! . . . :p

BBD

[chengher87]

People have actually verbally criticized your bike while on the road? I have witnessed plenty of douchey behavior, but never that. I always thought that was a myth. If true, it's sad and pathetic. In your case, I'd think the guys on fancy bikes would be more prone to ridicule than a fast dude on a cheap bike.

It used to happen a lot back when just started riding. But I also think it was because I had a triple back in the day..so I might have been asking for it. But I swear, it came stock on the bike and I mostly rode the 42T anyway ;)