Tubulars For Sport Level Riding

[Michael Katz]

I am not a racer. I ride 4 days a week at what I would describe as high spirited club rides of 1 1/2 to 5 hour duration on good roads and pockmarked roads, flats and hills. My present "go to" wheel and tire setup consists of hand built 28 spoke DT rims, hubs and spokes and Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp 23mm. Have been very pleased with this setup and have not experienced any problems.

For the last couple of years, I have had an irrational desire to own a Cannondale Evo to round out my existing stable of a lugged steel and ti bikes. The particular model that fell within a price point I would consider is the Evo Red Racing and now my lbs has made me an offer on price that is irresitable (20% off any 2013 Evo). The Evo Red Racing comes with Vision TC24 Carbon wheels and Schwable Ultremo HT 22mm tubulars. My lbs tells me that there are now easy to carry "fix a flat" inflation products if I am concerned about flatting with tubulars but that they would also work with me if I wanted to swap out the tubular setup for clinchers.

A part of me just wants to "go for it" and enjoy having a bike so different in character from what I presently have. The rational side of my brain is worried about having headaches that will detract from the joy of the ride. Any thoughts on my conundrum? Will the tubulars offer a noticeably superior ride experience from my clincher setup? Are flats a real concern and does this "fix a flat" stuff really work?

[oldpotatoe]

I am not a racer. I ride 4 days a week at what I would describe as high spirited club rides of 1 1/2 to 5 hour duration on good roads and pockmarked roads, flats and hills. My present "go to" wheel and tire setup consists of hand built 28 spoke DT rims, hubs and spokes and Vredestein Fortezza Tricomp 23mm. Have been very pleased with this setup and have not experienced any problems.

For the last couple of years, I have had an irrational desire to own a Cannondale Evo to round out my existing stable of a lugged steel and ti bikes. The particular model that fell within a price point I would consider is the Evo Red Racing and now my lbs has made me an offer on price that is irresitable (20% off any 2013 Evo). The Evo Red Racing comes with Vision TC24 Carbon wheels and Schwable Ultremo HT 22mm tubulars. My lbs tells me that there are now easy to carry "fix a flat" inflation products if I am concerned about flatting with tubulars but that they would also work with me if I wanted to swap out the tubular setup for clinchers.

A part of me just wants to "go for it" and enjoy having a bike so different in character from what I presently have. The rational side of my brain is worried about having headaches that will detract from the joy of the ride. Any thoughts on my conundrum? Will the tubulars offer a noticeably superior ride experience from my clincher setup? Are flats a real concern and does this "fix a flat" stuff really work?

Subjective 100%. I think they ride better, are generally safer(won't come off if ya flat, like some clinchers). Very nice ride. 'Payment' is you have to glue them on properly.
Take a preglued spare, small tire lever, $5. I put Stan's in my tubies, I get very few flats. I have gotten 2 flats on one ride twice in 28 years of using tubulars. I don't carry Pitstop or the like but you can.

'Flats' are a real concern with any tire on any vehicle but I wouldn't NOT do it because of getting a flat.

The only time I don't ride tubualrs if I'm gonna ride in the rain, wet..not very often, BTW. BUT you cannot get a preglued spare to stick onto a wet rim.

When I get on my Mercklx with tubies after riding my wet weather Moots, well the ride difference is just amazing. Yes, yes, I know the 2 frames/wheels are completely different but....

And NOT like shaving legs(altho that has genuine advantages, just like tubulars). As a bike shop owner I can have/use anything I want and I see NO compelling reason to change from tubies to nancy-clinchers.

[redir]

For what you describe I would recommend Continental Sprinters. They seem to be a reasonable durable tire and you don't have to pump them up all the time like with more expensive latex tubed tubulars.

I used to use Cafe Latex in my tubulars as a preventative to getting flats. It does absolutely indeed work but it has a draw back too. If you let your wheels sit for a long time it will dry up in a blob and ruin your tires. I just had to remove two Veloflex Criterium tires (very expensive) because they had a rock hard blob in them from winter storage. So I just carry a spare preglued tire and a can of pit stop or some such thing. If the pit stop fails then I have a spare.

Problem with training on tubulars is if you do flat and have to use a spare you have to be careful in the corners.

[Lazer]

if you're wringing your hands about it this much, you probably aren't a good candidate for tubulars. that being said, i've gotten 1 flat in 15 years of riding them, and maybe 3 on clinchers in that same time period. plus i can change a tubular faster than a clincher, no need to find the reason for the flat! much safer too. but for some people, it's not worth the "flat tire paranoia". either be happy on clinchers or quit worrying about flats.

[Ralph]

Subjective 100%. I think they ride better, are generally safer(won't come off if ya flat, like some clinchers). Very nice ride. 'Payment' is you have to glue them on properly.
Take a preglued spare, small tire lever, $5. I put Stan's in my tubies, I get very few flats. I have gotten 2 flats on one ride twice in 28 years of using tubulars. I don't carry Pitstop or the like but you can.

'Flats' are a real concern with any tire on any vehicle but I wouldn't NOT do it because of getting a flat.

I agree completely. After riding tubulars for over 30 years, a few years ago I moved to clinchers mainly because of the cost of tubulars. Otherwise I still prefer tubulars. In many ways, I think tubulars are easier to deal with. Gluing no big deal in my garage, only takes a few minutes, and for a flat on the road, it's easier to peal off and slap on a used tubular than change out a tube I think. Also believe I had fewer flats with tubulars. Just use good tubulars. Cheap tubulars don't usually go on straight. I also had some extra tubular rims I would inflate new tires for a few days before I glued them on my wheels. So had a system for dealing with new tires.

I'm not going back to tubulars, for my riding still think clinchers better for me, tubes are cheap, and there are good riding clinchers available also. But if you don't mind the expense of tubulars, there is no reason not to use them for "sport" riding. I always carried a slightly used tubular in a sock under my seat held on with a toe strap (sock to keep toe strap from damaging tire and held my CO2). Never had an issue getting home.

[christian]

This is simple.

Do you like fiddling with bikes and learning new things? Tubulars all the way. Gluing tubs is fun! It lets you spend quality time with your bike in the evenings.

Do you prefer things to "just work" and rely on your LBS for the majority of the work your bike needs? Clinchers all the way. Even though I love tubulars, clinchers are just omnipresent in a way tubulars aren't.

[rice rocket]

Can someone explain pre-gluing tubs to another tubular nubular? I have two Competitions on the way, I should probably pick up a third and pre-glue it. Do you literally just coat the inside diameter with glue? How do you stop it from sticking to itself?

[oldpotatoe]

Can someone explain pre-gluing tubs to another tubular nubular? I have two Competitions on the way, I should probably pick up a third and pre-glue it. Do you literally just coat the inside diameter with glue? How do you stop it from sticking to itself?

Glue normally, I use 3 thin cats, Let it dry, then roll up..it does stick a little to itself but it's not a big deal.

[christian]

Don't use a new Conti Comp for a spare!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html

[Ralph]

In over 30 years of using tubulars, I never put glue on the tire itself. Just on the rim. Just put a good even amount on the rim, let it set up for a few minutes to get tacky, then put the tire on. Tires were inflated and stretched on some old rims before use. On a new rim, W/B careful and make sure it was well glued. After a few tires, rim always had a lot of glue on it anyway, so didn't need so much when installing new tire. The spare I carried under seat, always was a used tire that probably had traces on glue on it, and the rim itself always had enough glue on to hold the tire in place for the ride home. Living in Florida, old glue is usually slightly tacky. Just rode a little careful. Then when home, I would reglue a new tire....always had one stretching without glue on old rim. You kinda know how much glue to use after doing a few.

If racing on tubulars, might do a little more gluing. Probably thin coat on tire just to be extra safe. But I never had a tire roll over for my kind of riding. And I just used regular tubular glue. Whatever LBS stocked, nothing special. Continental usually I recall. Panaracer?

BTW....Not claiming I did it best way....when I started using "sew ups" back in 73, that's how locals did it. Can truly say, never had a major problem with tubulars, as long as I used good quality tires. But also not interested in going back to tubulars.

[moose8]

Get them - variety is the spice of life! You could probably always find someone to trade with for clincher wheels if you decide you don't like them. That being said, I've never actually tried tubulars so my opinion may be a bit worthless.

[Lovetoclimb]

This is simple.

Do you like fiddling with bikes and learning new things? Tubulars all the way. Gluing tubs is fun! It lets you spend quality time with your bike in the evenings.

Do you prefer things to "just work" and rely on your LBS for the majority of the work your bike needs? Clinchers all the way. Even though I love tubulars, clinchers are just omnipresent in a way tubulars aren't.

I am going to disagree with this. I do 99% of the maintenance on my 5 bikes, but still find tubulars to be a time consuming headache that like everything cycling takes practice and $ to deal with. I used to own Campy Bora tubulars for racing and rode them very sparingly because I had FMB Competitions mounted on there. I went through 3 of those damn tires in less than a year of road and criterium racing (approx 15 races). At the time I was learning to glue and mount a tire straight. It was incredibly difficult for what I thought was my mechanically inclined brain. Ask me to dial in a Campy 11 speed bike, no problem.

Now I use tubulars only for cross racing and if clinchers did not roll off the rim at low psi through corners I would ditch those as well. They can be awesome, but buyer beware. As with anything they can be a big headache.

For the 20+ hours a week of road riding I do on smooth pavement, gravel, wet roads, etc, I use Vittoria PAves and have never had a flat with them in 2 years. Broken spokes, knocked wheels out of true, but never damaged a tire.

[classtimesailer]

Get the tubular wheelset. I built my first tubular wheelset almost 2 years ago and have been using Sprinter Gatorskins. I have worn out 2 rears without flatting. Moving to Competitions on the next replacements.

[christian]

I used to own Campy Bora tubulars for racing and rode them very sparingly because I had FMB Competitions mounted on there.
I should have bought those Boras from you last June. I've been looking for a similar deal ever since!

[FlashUNC]

Make the switch. I did last year with no regrets.

Also, try Kendas. I've had pretty good success with their tires, and they don't break the bank.

[redir]

Glue normally, I use 3 thin cats, Let it dry, then roll up..it does stick a little to itself but it's not a big deal.

I think he's talking about the spare tire.

If so then what works for me is just pumping up the tire so it flips out, brush a coat of glue to completely cover the base tape and let it dry over night. Next day deflate it and fold it in on its self such that the base tape is touching itself. I tri fold it and shove it in a bag that gets strapped to my saddle rails.

[fiamme red]

Glue normally, I use 3 thin cats, Let it dry, then roll up..it does stick a little to itself but it's not a big deal.Someone call the ASPCA please! ;)

[JEMM]

i want to switch to tubular. how much kenda tires they sell for?

[Ralph]

Fiamme Red.....my first daily rider rims with tubulars. Fiamme Yellow was on my 73 P13 Paramount .

[Liv2RideHard]

I train and race on tubulars. I flat less often than when I used to train and race on clinchers. One tubular flat...ever. And that was b/c I smacked into a piece of angle iron no one called.

It is not hard or a headache to mount tubulars. Get one lesson from your LBS or someone you trust and you will be good to go. There is nothing mythical about it. Piece of cake.

Tubulars ride much more supple than clinchers. Safer if you flat. I run only Veloflex tubulars. Sure they deflate after a bit...but we all check our tire pressure before every ride anyway right? This statement always bugs me...latex deflating.

I carry a spare pre-glued tubular under my saddle. Never had to use them but carry anyway. 2 coats of glue, rolled and held in place with a toe strap.

Make the leap and you won't regret it.

[Len J]

IMO tubulars are like shaving your legs, an unnecessary symbolic gesture.

Marginal ride improvement (if any) especially w. today's wider clincher rims, coupled w pita gluing and higher cost.

IMO, ymmv etc etc

Len

Btw after fussing w tubulars for 20 years, I glued my last one about 20 years ago and have never regretted it.

[JEMM]

nice info. :)

[christian]

IMO tubulars are like shaving your legs, an unnecessary symbolic gesture.Tradition is tradition. And it's difficult to cut yourself mounting tubulars.

[fiamme red]

Tradition is tradition. And it's difficult to cut yourself mounting tubulars.It's a good idea to shave your legs before you glue a tubular. It's no fun trying to clean Tubasti off a pair of hairy legs. :)


Tubasti

by Aldo Ross

Tubasti on the sidewalls
Tubasti on the spokes
Tubasti on the workbench
And a bunch of cotter bolts

Tubasti on the visegrips
Tubasti on my arm
Tubasti on my chin and cheek
I hope it won't cause harm

Tubasti on the light switch
Tubasti on the cats
Tubasti on my shoes and socks
And on my car's floor mats

Tubasti on the carpet
Tubasti in my hair
I tried to glue just one damn tire
Now Tubasti's everywhere

[mcteague]

Sure tubulars can be easy to remove and reinstall. But, does anyone actually patch the flat? That is where the real work comes into it. They are too $$ to toss away. I just don't have the patience for it and find tires like the Pro4 in 700x25 ride quite nicely.

Tim

[thwart]

Tubasti

by Aldo Ross

Tubasti on the sidewalls
Tubasti on the spokes
Tubasti on the workbench
And a bunch of cotter bolts

Tubasti on the visegrips
Tubasti on my arm
Tubasti on my chin and cheek
I hope it won't cause harm

Tubasti on the light switch
Tubasti on the cats
Tubasti on my shoes and socks
And on my car's floor mats

Tubasti on the carpet
Tubasti in my hair
I tried to glue just one damn tire
Now Tubasti's everywhere

Love it.

[christian]

But, does anyone actually patch the flat?I do. I have a Conti Comp that needs booting at the moment. It takes me about 45 minutes. I can usually do it in the time it takes to watch one episode of Parks and Recreation and one episode of the Mindy Project.

[reggiebaseball]

If the OP has the funds for multiple steel and Ti bikes,
and is thinking about getting an EVO as a lark,

He can surely pay his local bike shop $40 a wheel to mount his tubulars.
He can also pay $100 a pop for Veloflex Carbons, which are the proper tubular.

Carry a can of Vittoria Pit Stop, and a cell phone in case disaster strikes.

But- don't think that it is the Evo that rides like a dream, because it is actually the tubular wheels and tires.

Try them on your other bikes too, start with a second hand pair of Ambrosio Nemesis laced to hubs of the proper configuration for you.

[enr1co]

Another one in the "once upon a time used tubulars and loved the superior ride feel but for my riding purposes, not worth the expense and cost for my purposes especially with the advances in clincher products, rim technology".

All the feedback and opinon here is good but nothing like experiencing them on your own to determine the value of the ride feel versus them being a PITA.

The shop may not give much credit on that tubular set up so perhaps just follow the "go for it" side of your brain and get the on sale EVO set up as is.

(Fwiw- if you do go w/ the tubulars, give the Conti Sprinters a try. Obviously have never tried Schwalbe Ultremo tubulars but if they are anything like their clincher versions, my experience with these is that they are not very flat/cut and wear resistant.)

[Liv2RideHard]

IMO tubulars are like shaving your legs, an unnecessary symbolic gesture.

Marginal ride improvement (if any) especially w. today's wider clincher rims, coupled w pita gluing and higher cost.

IMO, ymmv etc etc

Len

Btw after fussing w tubulars for 20 years, I glued my last one about 20 years ago and have never regretted it.

Your opinion and you are entitled to it...but IMO way off the mark.

Marginal...man if it has been 20 years you should try it today. Hands down tubs are better in every way.

Tradition is tradition. And it's difficult to cut yourself mounting tubulars.

This.

[redir]

It's a good idea to shave your legs before you glue a tubular. It's no fun trying to clean Tubasti off a pair of hairy legs. :)


Tubasti

by Aldo Ross

Tubasti on the sidewalls
Tubasti on the spokes
Tubasti on the workbench
And a bunch of cotter bolts

Tubasti on the visegrips
Tubasti on my arm
Tubasti on my chin and cheek
I hope it won't cause harm

Tubasti on the light switch
Tubasti on the cats
Tubasti on my shoes and socks
And on my car's floor mats

Tubasti on the carpet
Tubasti in my hair
I tried to glue just one damn tire
Now Tubasti's everywhere


Bwahahahahahaha

[redir]

Another one in the "once upon a time used tubulars and loved the superior ride feel but for my riding purposes, not worth the expense and cost for my purposes especially with the advances in clincher products, rim technology".

All the feedback and opinon here is good but nothing like experiencing them on your own to determine the value of the ride feel versus them being a PITA.

The shop may not give much credit on that tubular set up so perhaps just follow the "go for it" side of your brain and get the on sale EVO set up as is.

(Fwiw- if you do go w/ the tubulars, give the Conti Sprinters a try. Obviously have never tried Schwalbe Ultremo tubulars but if they are anything like their clincher versions, my experience with these is that they are not very flat/cut and wear resistant.)

I've got a set of Utremo's on my race wheels now. They seem durable enough but they don't ride like Veloflex.

[Len J]

Your opinion and you are entitled to it...but IMO way off the mark.

Marginal...man if it has been 20 years you should try it today. Hands down tubs are better in every way.



This.

I've ridden modern tubs on friends bikes. Other than the relative weight advantage on high profile wheels, the differences in ride are still marginal when compared to properly inflated wide rim mounted high quality clinchers.

Now if you are comparing them to over inflated mid range clinchers on crap wheels...sure, I'd agree w you.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[summilux]

the differences in ride are still marginal when compared to properly inflated wide rim mounted high quality clinchers.


Some truth to this, if your ride can fit a 28 or more. But if you can only do 23 or 25, then tubular all the way. And Veloflex.

[firerescuefin]

I've ridden modern tubs on friends bikes. Other than the relative weight advantage on high profile wheels, the differences in ride are still marginal when compared to properly inflated wide rim mounted high quality clinchers.

Now if you are comparing them to over inflated mid range clinchers on crap wheels...sure, I'd agree w you.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yes Len.....Because everyone on here runs cruiser tires/rims on their bikes. :rolleyes:

I prefer tubulars...25s to be exact, and not because I like to sniff glue (that's just a side benefit)

[Len J]

Yes Len.....Because everyone on here runs cruiser tires/rims on their bikes. :rolleyes:

I prefer tubulars...25s to be exact, and not because I like to sniff glue (that's just a side benefit)

I ride 23's & 25's.

I realize its blasphemy.

Len

[firerescuefin]

I ride 23's & 25's.

I realize its blasphemy.

Len

"when compared to properly inflated wide rim mounted high quality clinchers"

Did not realize that "wide rim clinchers" were 23s and 25s...

Well then I'll just plain disagree with you:)...23s and 25s tubulars ride better IMO at proper pressure, but if you hate the process, the difference isn't worth the hassle...I don't mind the process at all.

[Len J]

"when compared to properly inflated wide rim mounted high quality clinchers"

Did not realize that "wide rim clinchers" were 23s and 25s...

Well then I'll just plain disagree with you:)...23s and 25s tubulars ride better IMO at proper pressure, but if you hate the process, the difference isn't worth the hassle...I don't mind the process at all.

Something 23mm wide, (like a HED2) with a properly inflated 25 or 23mm pro4 clincher riedes with differences to a tub that only a very small % of riders could detect if they didn't know what they were riding.

IME.

Len

[firerescuefin]

Something 23mm wide, (like a HED2) with a properly inflated 25 or 23mm pro4 clincher riedes with differences to a tub that only a very small % of riders could detect if they didn't know what they were riding.

IME.

Len


I will say this...my last clincher of choice was pro race 3's and I thought they road great (although I went through them quick). FWIW, I like the process of gluing tubulars and working on my bike...kind of like some people like gardening (which I do not).

[Fivethumbs]

I've got some nice tubular rims that I rarely use. I found the good clinchers ride better than cheap or even moderate tubulars. I don't know how to fix a flatted tubular so I throw them away which is expensive. Also, if you flat out on a ride and change the tire you can't push the bike around corners for rear of rolling it. For me the scale tipped towards clinchers.

[Len J]

I will say this...my last clincher of choice was pro race 3's and I thought they road great (although I went through them quick). FWIW, I like the process of gluing tubulars and working on my bike...kind of like some people like gardening (which I do not).

I get that. And I'm glad.

I've seen too many people go from overinflated crappy tires on uber stiff over built wheels for their weight to a set of expensive tubbies with good tires and become missionaries for the great ride of tubbies over clinchers.

If I were racing where cornering really mattered I'd probably go back but well made clincher wheels appropriate for my weight w properly inflated good tires give me 99% of the ride w little hassle.

Tubbies have their place but the gains get overstated.

Len

[christian]

I actually agree with you Len - I think the gains are marginal. From a comfort perspective, I don't see much difference, but I do notice that tubulars seem to deflect more easily over small road surface imperfections. I just seem to get a little more grip on tubulars; though this is obviously tied to running them at lower pressures, too.

But the thing is - I ride for fun; I have a couple of spare bikes; I have a couple of spare wheel sets. I like to fiddle with my bike - it's the best relaxation I get. The pain of using tubulars is pretty marginal too.

I do ride clinchers on the commute most of the time. Admission!

[Len J]

I actually agree with you Len - I think the gains are marginal. From a comfort perspective, I don't see much difference, but I do notice that tubulars seem to deflect more easily over small road surface imperfections. I just seem to get a little more grip on tubulars; though this is obviously tied to running them at lower pressures, too.

But the thing is - I ride for fun; I have a couple of spare bikes; I have a couple of spare wheel sets. I like to fiddle with my bike - it's the best relaxation I get. The pain of using tubulars is pretty marginal too.

I do ride clinchers on the commute most of the time. Admission!

And you are making an informed choice...I applaud that.

I really just wanted to give the OP a balanced response to his inquiry.

It's all good.

Len

[jumpjube]

Michael,

Mix it up. Spouse and I ride both.

Love the bikes with good-enough clinchers. Also LOVE the tubulars.

For us, the clinchers flat more often.

John

[rice rocket]

Don't use a new Conti Comp for a spare!

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html

Thanks for the link!

[Anarchist]

IMO tubulars are like shaving your legs, an unnecessary symbolic gesture.

Marginal ride improvement (if any) especially w. today's wider clincher rims, coupled w pita gluing and higher cost.

IMO, ymmv etc etc

Len

Btw after fussing w tubulars for 20 years, I glued my last one about 20 years ago and have never regretted it.

Well good then. Close the thread.

[merckx]

Do you like using waxable skis or waxless? The answer to this question will determine your tyre choice.

[reggiebaseball]

<snip>

Len

Btw after fussing w tubulars for 20 years, I glued my last one about 20 years ago and have never regretted it.

Hang on, let me get in the mood. It's 1992 and you're listening to "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mixalot, or "Jump" by those adorable KrisCross boys.

Disney just released the pinnacle of film animation "Aladdin"

Miguel Indurain saddled up a 19.8 pound steel Pinarello for the Tour.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/tour-de-france-winning-bikes-34375/

And oh wait. YOU decide that tubulars aren't for you.

:bike:

[Len J]

Hang on, let me get in the mood. It's 1992 and you're listening to "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mixalot, or "Jump" by those adorable KrisCross boys.

Disney just released the pinnacle of film animation "Aladdin"

Miguel Indurain saddled up a 19.8 pound steel Pinarello for the Tour.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/tour-de-france-winning-bikes-34375/

And oh wait. YOU decide that tubulars aren't for you.

:bike:

Try reading the rest of my posts.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[reggiebaseball]

Try reading the rest of my posts.

Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I can't, they make my brain hurt.

no matter how many times you repeat bad information,
I know the truth of the matter.

[Len J]

I can't, they make my brain hurt.

no matter how many times you repeat bad information,
I know the truth of the matter.

saying any clincher rides like a top flight tubular is completely false, and tell me you are the cycling equivalent of a deaf person critiquing music, a blind person critiquing a painting, or a Red Sox fan talking about baseball.

Well if you say so. Feel better?


Len


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[reggiebaseball]

not really,

I feel my original comment was rude to the blind, deaf, and Red Sox fans among us.

So I will amend it.

[Michael Katz]

Thanks to all who posted their experiences, suggestions and points of view. Some very helpful and interesting info from many once you discard some typical internet tripe from a few.

Jumpjube, I like your suggestion of variety. Very appealing. Unfortunately, my other 2 road bikes are Campy equipped while the Evo in question comes with SRAM so I wouldn't be able to swap back and forth and the wheels would be suitable for use only on the Evo.

My lbs is going to bring the bike in for me to ride without obligation, so with the benefit of the insight of those who have posted on both sides of the question and with a better understanding of the pros and cons, the final determinant will be a few hours in the saddle on my local roads.

[cmbicycles]

Michael,
I think I used to work on your Ottrott, and maybe other bikes, when I worked at Keswick, gotta be almost 10 years ago now though. If you plan on learning how to do the mounting and/or repairing of the tubulars, it is a pretty good ride. The sealants do work inside of the tubulars to some extent, except that unlike tubeless systems you cannot clean out the old dried out sealant. If you do not plan on doing it yourself, I would stick with clinchers for the ease of maintenance. I don't think I saw any tubulars glued up there when I worked there, but things could have changed.
A nice wheelset with top quality clinchers may not ride quite as well or be quite as light as the equivalent top quality tubular tire/wheel combo. But they are pretty darn close. Also the tc24 requires a minimum of a 23 mm tire according to vision techs website as it is a slightly wider rim itself, so the 22 schwalbe tires won't meet the requirement. The SRAM equipped Evo is going to be quite the different animal from your campy equipped steel and Ti bike anyway, I don't think the clincher tubular difference will make that dramatic a change inhow it rides, but ultimately you are the one to make that decision. If the shop is going to let you ride the bike and see, then do just that. Maybe someone you know has some wheels you can swap out to try the two head to head.

Follow up and let us know what you think.

[Michael Katz]

cmbicycles, yup, that was my Ottrott. Good to hear from you. Hope all is well. The Ottrott is gone, sold to a rider through this board. Great bike, just wasn't riding it because of my love affair with my Spectrums (I love it when the insurance companies of cars that hit me beg to buy me new bikes if I will just go away).

I appreciate the points you raise. Interesting about the wheel/tire size observation. The Evo Red Race model is actually spec'd with the 22mm tires on the Vision wheels. I'm going to resist the urge to be impulsive and just take my time exploring my options.

If you're ever around the area and are looking for what for you would no doubt be a more "laid back" ride, I'm leading rides from the back lot of the shop on Tuesdays and often on Sundays.

[thunderworks]

Tubie inflation question . . .I'm an extremely light rider. I weigh 124lbs. I'm strictly a sport rider - don't race, but ride and train hard to avoid the ravages of old age (I'm 62). I ride a Ti bike with nice SRAM equipment. I've been using clinchers, ZIPP 303's with Conti 23mm tires. I inflate those to 100psi rear, and 95psi front.

What would be the recommended tire pressures for tubulars? Can someone my weight run 90psi rear and 85psi front? When you talk about ride quality, is that mostly a function of lower tire pressures smoothing out road?

TIA

[reggiebaseball]

Tubie inflation question . . .I'm an extremely light rider. I weigh 124lbs. I'm strictly a sport rider - don't race, but ride and train hard to avoid the ravages of old age (I'm 62). I ride a Ti bike with nice SRAM equipment. I've been using clinchers, ZIPP 303's with Conti 23mm tires. I inflate those to 100psi rear, and 95psi front.

What would be the recommended tire pressures for tubulars? Can someone my weight run 90psi rear and 85psi front? When you talk about ride quality, is that mostly a function of lower tire pressures smoothing out road?

TIA
TIA,

I think running at lower pressures definitely helps reduce road chatter and improve ride quality for me, but I am 220 lbs. Most of the flyweights I know ride at higher pressures in their tires.

Part of the reason people like "wide" clinchers and 25 or 27 or 28c tires, and in fact tubulars, is that you can run them at lower pressures for a cushier ride.

A tubular can be ridden at extremely low pressures, because it is glued to your rim, while a clincher eventually may burp air or come off if the pressure is too low.

If you feel a tubular in your hand (even deflated), it has a structure to it, it feels like a snake or a hose- I think you can imagine how this might feel more solid on the road than a clincher, which is a half tire that bulges out from your rim in profile like a light bulb.

I could get a plush ride from clinchers by using wide rims, 25c tires, - but it was a pingy ride at higher pressures, and a smooshy ride at sufficiently low pressures to be smooth.

On the other hand, proper tubulars provide a glassy smooth ride that makes the wheels disappear, without feeling soft.



When you ride tubulars, you have to check and inflate before every ride, this provides an excellent opportunity to experiment with PSI to get the feel you like. For example, I ride most of mine at 93psi front and rear.

Do you love your Zipps? HAve you tried many other wheels?

Here is what I would recommend- if you are a serious enthusiast, you owe it to yourself to at least try tubulars I think. I would recommend wheels that the professionals ride, and the ones they choose for the most demanding race in the world.
'La reine du norde' - The Queen of the North, Ambrosio Nemesis rims.

How does it compare to your Zipp-
well first, many more people have won the Paris Roubaix on Nemesis.:banana:

the nemesis are 200 grams heavier, will roll as well or better on DA hubs, will brake BETTER (esp in the wet), will be more durable and will distinguish you as someone who knows their sh$t.

Zipps are race day wheels (at best), Nemesis are a proper training wheel

A used set of Nemesis can be picked up at a serious discount ($500 with tires), but even built up brand new should be in the $700-1000 range tops - depending on how fancy you get with hubs.


The ride of a Nemesis rim, DA hubs, with Veloflex tubular is as sublime as exists on the road. Off road, a larger volume tubular would do the trick.

I sincerely believe that if you tried a set of wheels as I suggest, that you would end up selling the Zipps in no time.