EPS first and second(ish) impressions UPDATE: Now with some photos.

[FlashUNC]

So got my Athena EPS group installed on my repaired MAX frame last night. The routing for an external frame really isn't that big of a deal, though since I ride a larger frame, I had far less cable slack to deal with that I could see some other folks having to manage.

Initial impressions that include maybe some stuff not in all the reviews:

1) The initial "tuning" of the shifting is a little surreal. It goes from garbage to dialed-in in no time. The single limit screw on the RD is a little bizarre, but if it works and my wheel isn't eating a pricey derailleur, so be it.

2) The FD is a little frightening in action. Holy crap it pushes that chain around in a hurry and with a lot of force. Seems a bit more "grabby" than other mechanical systems I've used. I'm unsure if this is an error in my setup -- the FD isn't missing shifts or out of alignment -- its just a far more forceful shift than I've experienced. I can see how it'll shift under any circumstances, and I hope it avoids the dropped chain issue I've had in the past.

3) The lights system on the DTI is somewhat maddening. Yeah, I get there's not really a super easy way to communicate some of this info, but holding down buttons for nebulous amounts of time to get into and out of a diagnostic or adjustment setting is annoying. To say nothing of having to have a chart nearby to decipher what the system is trying to tell you by its color-coded flashing lights.

4) I'm going to lose the magnet that shuts the system off entirely in about a week.

Overall though, I'm impressed, though I'm curious to see what it does on the road.

[jt2gt]

So got my Athena EPS group installed on my repaired MAX frame last night. The routing for an external frame really isn't that big of a deal, though since I ride a larger frame, I had far less cable slack to deal with that I could see some other folks having to manage.

Initial impressions that include maybe some stuff not in all the reviews:

1) The initial "tuning" of the shifting is a little surreal. It goes from garbage to dialed-in in no time. The single limit screw on the RD is a little bizarre, but if it works and my wheel isn't eating a pricey derailleur, so be it.

2) The FD is a little frightening in action. Holy crap it pushes that chain around in a hurry and with a lot of force. Seems a bit more "grabby" than other mechanical systems I've used. I'm unsure if this is an error in my setup -- the FD isn't missing shifts or out of alignment -- its just a far more forceful shift than I've experienced. I can see how it'll shift under any circumstances, and I hope it avoids the dropped chain issue I've had in the past.

3) The lights system on the DTI is somewhat maddening. Yeah, I get there's not really a super easy way to communicate some of this info, but holding down buttons for nebulous amounts of time to get into and out of a diagnostic or adjustment setting is annoying. To say nothing of having to have a chart nearby to decipher what the system is trying to tell you by its color-coded flashing lights.

4) I'm going to lose the magnet that shuts the system off entirely in about a week.

Overall though, I'm impressed, though I'm curious to see what it does on the road.

Yes, would love to know what you think of it after riding a bit on it. A few bikes have EPS in the custom bike pic section of the forum, but no one has given a nice review. Thanks. BTW...your #3 sounds like my Saeco coffee/espresso maker (I have to keep the instructions close by to figure out why its not making my coffee).;)

JT

[cmbicycles]

You just need to treat the system shutoff magnet like gas stations treat their bathroom keys... It has a hole in he plastic for a key ring, just chain it to an old boat anchor or something like it.

[FlashUNC]

You just need to treat the system shutoff magnet like gas stations treat their bathroom keys... It has a hole in he plastic for a key ring, just chain it to an old boat anchor or something like it.

Funny you mention that, I was totally thinking about that last night after searching for it about 10 minutes, only to find it had stuck to the keys in my pocket.

I think a 3 foot broom handle with a loop through it might enable me to keep track of it until the winter.

[ultraman6970]

Ultra wants eps.

[poff]

I would love to give a review but my rear SR EPS died after 500mi. Overall, I like mech SR more than EPS. For instance, on steep hills EPS front would fail to downshift, while the mech FD never failed me. Since my bike can only be used with electronic components I am switching to 9070. My old DA electronic has never missed a shift. And yes, EPS was installed by skilled, certified etc mechanic.

[oldpotatoe]

I would love to give a review but my rear SR EPS died after 500mi. Overall, I like mech SR more than EPS. For instance, on steep hills EPS front would fail to downshift, while the mech FD never failed me. Since my bike can only be used with electronic components I am switching to 9070. My old DA electronic has never missed a shift. And yes, EPS was installed by skilled, certified etc mechanic.

'Failed' how please.
RD 'died'? Did you get the diagnostic?

[dd74]

I have about 2,000 miles on my EPS. It was installed by a professional. It is an external installation. It shifts much more quickly and accurately than anything I could accomplish with a mechanical set up. I've needed to charge it only twice since owning it. The EPS has never needed an adjustment, either.

In short, the EPS has worked flawlessly for me right out of the box. I highly recommend the system. It's a good cycling investment.

[Ryun]

ive got a few thousand miles on my eps and can chime in.
I put a huge zip tip and note card on the "ignition key". It is easy to lose and I am not sure of the benefit if the bike is a daily rider but i still drop it in after a ride.

Like the op mentioned, set up is silly quick and just works. Mine has been set it and forget it for months.

The front is quick although I would give a slight edge to the last Di2 bike but they are pretty amazing. So much so I have bumper the shift lever while on the hoods and found myself in the big ring accidentally.
The rear feels faster than di2 but certainly has a little more sound to it. Not noisy exactly but campy cassettes seem to shift slightly louder than da cassettes .
I like the ability to "dump" the rear gears although it takes a little time to figure out how long to depress it to go x number of cogs. I still find myself tapping it once for each gear out of habit.

The battery seems to go forever, I did have to charge my di2 once in the same time but the eps hasnt asked for it.

Overall it has been pretty much flawless over the last few months. I would love a slightly smaller battery/brain package but mine sits loud and proud on the seat mast.

[jpw]

what's the thinking, have a frame built exclusively for electronic gearing, or have mechanical cable stops and external electronic wiring, or (if possible) both?

Electronic appears to be here to stay, and may eventually morph to wireless. Is external wiring so bad?

[FlashUNC]

what's the thinking, have a frame built exclusively for electronic gearing, or have mechanical cable stops and external electronic wiring, or (if possible) both?

Electronic appears to be here to stay, and may eventually morph to wireless. Is external wiring so bad?

I'll post some photos later tonight. Install took maybe 6-8 zip ties in total, with only three you can really see prominently. Did use some of the external Di2 mounting tape, which helped a lot.

Its really not that bad. And I ever decide to go back to mechanical, I've got all the braze-ons and such still in place.

[poff]

'Failed' how please.
RD 'died'? Did you get the diagnostic?

Here, one day I rode my bike to work and everything was fine. I put it in my private office and inserted magnet into the "black box." Later in the day when I was about to go home I pulled the magnet out and the box began to buzz and the green light came on, and both front and rear shifting were blocked. I put the magnet back and had to climb 1,000ft in 50/17. My shop called Campy next day and Campy said that either the shifter or RD der had to be replaced and that my shop had to figure out which one. So basically, the system had to be disassembled, re-tested (with Campy guidance) and then the proper part would be warranted. Campy is not covering labor, so you can imagine how much labor will be. And the shifting in rear der is blocked, and that is what I call dead. Now, even if I get the right part I cannot trust this system. I do not want to get stranded in the middle of nowhere.

[ultraman6970]

Easy, since you dont trust the group no more, when you get the RMA part from campagnolo just send the whole group to Ultra, he will test the crap out of it, so you could get your confidence in campy again.

Deal? :D

[poff]

Nice, love the spirit!:fight:

[ultraman6970]

You cant blame me for not trying :D

Always you can sell the parts, more than somebody would love to get spare parts.

BTW the parts are paired or you can just grab any EPS rd or FD and put it in there? (i know the cables are different between sr and athena)

[cmbicycles]

With EPS, you can manually set the rear derailleur anywhere in the even of a system failure. With mechanical, if the cable breaks or something renders your shifting useless you are stuck in the small cog unless are able to tie up the cable somehow to hold it. Your shop may or may not charge you labor, depends on lotsa factors. Even it they do, I doubt you will be that put out for the labor based on the time they have in diagnosing and replacing parts.

Off topic of that problem... one thing I have done, that they don't mention when assembling, is putting a little bit of dielectric grease on the contacts when putting the system together. Anyone else doing that? Kinda cheap insurance against corrosion in my eyes.

[christian]

With mechanical, if the cable breaks or something renders your shifting useless you are stuck in the small cog unless are able to tie up the cable somehow to hold it.Unless the break is just at the wrong spot, a bottle cage bolt will do nicely for this on Ergo-equipped bikes. You may have to use the "front" half of the cable, but 99.99% of the time, one half of the cable will be long enough to reach from the lowest bottle cage bolt, through the rear housing noodle, and fastened to the r.d.

[dd74]

what's the thinking, have a frame built exclusively for electronic gearing, or have mechanical cable stops and external electronic wiring, or (if possible) both?

Electronic appears to be here to stay, and may eventually morph to wireless. Is external wiring so bad?
You will get tired very quickly of seeing the wires running beneath the down tube and the chain stay.

You will also get tired of having to be more careful than usual when cleaning the frame so as you don't snag a wire.

Unless you have a black-painted frame, which hides the wiring somewhat, the installation is going to look crappy, IMO.

Fact is, Campagnolo never intended for EPS to work externally. It was always supposed to be used with a frame where the wiring would go inside the down tube and chain stay. That's why Campagnolo does not offer an external wiring kit such as Shimano.

So yes, the best bet is to get a frame that is already EPS ready with holes drilled for the wiring.

[oldpotatoe]

Here, one day I rode my bike to work and everything was fine. I put it in my private office and inserted magnet into the "black box." Later in the day when I was about to go home I pulled the magnet out and the box began to buzz and the green light came on, and both front and rear shifting were blocked. I put the magnet back and had to climb 1,000ft in 50/17. My shop called Campy next day and Campy said that either the shifter or RD der had to be replaced and that my shop had to figure out which one. So basically, the system had to be disassembled, re-tested (with Campy guidance) and then the proper part would be warranted. Campy is not covering labor, so you can imagine how much labor will be. And the shifting in rear der is blocked, and that is what I call dead. Now, even if I get the right part I cannot trust this system. I do not want to get stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Not gonna shill for Campagnolo but green light means RD. Violet means RH lever. Unplug, take off, get new one..replug-go ride.

Never fun getting stuck but ya know you can manually position RD to any cog if it fails..

AND I have only seen one but I have seen a Di2 that just quit. All electronic are reliable in general but some failure do occur, even with shimano.

But enjoy your 9070..need shimano 11 wheels but you probably knew that.

[FlashUNC]

Couple EPS install photos:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8616768841_1966f81a38_b.jpg

Front brake cable routing:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8399/8616765385_38a6f2ec5b_b.jpg

RD routing:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8531/8616766847_75e97d328c_b.jpg

Under the BB, tire boot used to protect the excess cable:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8616767971_ce370bd405_b.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

You will get tired very quickly of seeing the wires running beneath the down tube and the chain stay.

You will also get tired of having to be more careful than usual when cleaning the frame so as you don't snag a wire.

Unless you have a black-painted frame, which hides the wiring somewhat, the installation is going to look crappy, IMO.

Fact is, Campagnolo never intended for EPS to work externally. It was always supposed to be used with a frame where the wiring would go inside the down tube and chain stay. That's why Campagnolo does not offer an external wiring kit such as Shimano.

So yes, the best bet is to get a frame that is already EPS ready with holes drilled for the wiring.

The wiring kit for Campagnolo is both external or internal. Since the power pack is hard wired to the interface/RD/FD, it can do either. Since shimano has the wires go into a central junction box is why they have 2 since the external wouldn't fit into a frame and the internal one has no way to attach it to the BB, ala the external one.

Different designs plus 4 less connectors with EPS, the weak point on all electronic systems

Dejavu all over again.

And once more, as shown by the pictures, the wires outside mean ohh so little. I don't get tired of der housing anywhere or computer wires, you won't get tired of external wiring. Cleaning and cut a wire? you cleaning with a dremel?

[EDS]

Wait, are you doing the build in the kitchen? If so, your significant other, to the extent you have one, is a beautiful person.

[FlashUNC]

Wait, are you doing the build in the kitchen? If so, your significant other, to the extent you have one, is a beautiful person.

Oh heck no. Just brought the stand out from the dungeon of a bike room for a little better lighting.

She was at work, and would likely kill me if she saw those photos.

[Lovetoclimb]

Not a big fan of the external wires and zip ties, but on the whole that is a nice looking build. The black alloy is quite choice.

[one60]

first off, I think you did a great job with cables. And I love that frame!

You probably thought of this but there might be a way to run the cables through the cable guides or barrel adjusters and down to the bottom bracket cable guide where it could be held in tension with a zip tie or wire cable clamp like those used on stainless cables for display shelving?

Another option would be to use old school style campagnolo top tube & bottom bracket guides to string the cables. While that might not work for a carbon frame, it could look pretty bad *ss on this MAX frame.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7516215@N03/4273425030/

Enjoy your new kit!

[poff]

Not gonna shill for Campagnolo but green light means RD. Violet means RH lever. Unplug, take off, get new one..replug-go ride.

Never fun getting stuck but ya know you can manually position RD to any cog if it fails..

AND I have only seen one but I have seen a Di2 that just quit. All electronic are reliable in general but some failure do occur, even with shimano.

But enjoy your 9070..need shimano 11 wheels but you probably knew that.

Thanks, I can read the manual, however after describing the symptoms Campy insisted on testing both right shifter and rear der. I know that green light means RD and so does the bike shop. However, Campy would not exchange both parts (while it expressed opinion that it is the right shifter that might be faulty, not us) and wants us to test the whole system which includes (according to Campy) pulling it out of the frame. My 7950 never failed me, I never had a chain suck or a missed shift. Problems with EPS started out of the blue. I am in Cali, so no rain or cold either, just steep hills. And, when it did work during transitioning from downhill to steep uphill the chain would get stuck in the front DR when I was trying to downshift. It never happened to my mech SR FD on the same hills. The thing is I have never had Campy and got both mech SR and SR EPS at the same time 7 months ago. Looking back, I like mech SR more that both EPS and 7950. Mech SR shifts as smoothly and the only thing you lose is the ability to go through the whole gear range on the back with one push. Just my 2c. Most of my hubs are R45 so I just switch from Campy conversion kit to Shimano 11 conversion kit, both have the same price.

[dd74]

The wiring kit for Campagnolo is both external or internal. Since the power pack is hard wired to the interface/RD/FD, it can do either. Since shimano has the wires go into a central junction box is why they have 2 since the external wouldn't fit into a frame and the internal one has no way to attach it to the BB, ala the external one.

Different designs and the first EPS or Di2..came out way before internal was somewhat 'standard'.

Dejavu all over again.

And once more, as shown by the pictures, the wires outside mean ohh so little. I don't get tired of der housing anywhere or computer wires, you won't get tired of external wiring. Cleaning and cut a wire? you cleaning with a dremel?
IMO, the wiring on the outside looks like ass. Secondly, I don't know who you spoke with at Campy, but the system was always designed to be run internally through a frame's tubing. That's exactly what Campy told me. Third, I said snag a wire, not cut one. Snag, which means where the wire goes, whether to the brain, the derailleur or the triggers, could get pulled out when cleaning the frame. Why might this happen? Because the EPS isn't installed as it was designed to be installed.

[Unpredictable]

Poff, I hear ya....A friend of mine had the same problem and Campy wanted everything back to troubleshoot it. The whole group, wires battery too. He wasn't happy.

[jpw]

I've fiddled with Di2 in my LBS, but I've yet to encounter EPS.

http://serotta.com/bicycles/ottrott-se/

Here Serotta has the Ottrott ready for internal wiring and internal Di2 battery, with EPS internal battery coming this summer.

How are these battery applications different?

[fuzzalow]

All the fuss and hand wringing about external wiring. NBD. Run all the wiring neatly routed along the underside of frame tubes. The old SRM wired units ran 2 wires to the handlebars from the BB and the back wheel. BTW for those interested in PM, pre-owned wired SRM setups are inexpensive - just don't break the PC-V unit.

The wires can be secured with strips of clear tape - packing tape as lowbrow, helicopter tape if you want to go nuts. For those worried about cutting a wire when cleaning, use helicopter tape, that stuff is tougher than you.

[jpw]

All the fuss and hand wringing about external wiring. NBD. Run all the wiring neatly routed along the underside of frame tubes. The old SRM wired units ran 2 wires to the handlebars from the BB and the back wheel. BTW for those interested in PM, pre-owned wired SRM setups are inexpensive - just don't break the PC-V unit.

The wires can be secured with strips of clear tape - packing tape as lowbrow, helicopter tape if you want to go nuts. For those worried about cutting a wire when cleaning, use helicopter tape, that stuff is tougher than you.

why is it called helicopter tape?

[fuzzalow]

It is tape that is applied to leading edge of rotors to protect the edge from impact while it is spinning 'round. Used also in racing car activities - usually with ineffective results. When a car you are chasing goes wide and sprays you with gravel trap, nothing sort of a science fiction force field will help.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3437-001

[cdn_bacon]

That under the BB shot makes me dizzy.

Wrong way to look at a bike.

[oldpotatoe]

IMO, the wiring on the outside looks like ass. Secondly, I don't know who you spoke with at Campy, but the system was always designed to be run internally through a frame's tubing. That's exactly what Campy told me. Third, I said snag a wire, not cut one. Snag, which means where the wire goes, whether to the brain, the derailleur or the triggers, could get pulled out when cleaning the frame. Why might this happen? Because the EPS isn't installed as it was designed to be installed.

Whatever, my goodness, give the guy some props for a nice sanitary install. If ya won't put it on your bike externally, well then don't. BUT as waterproof wiring, battery, connectors and then sayin it's ONLY designed for internal...

Connectors, as I'm sure you know, are all outside the frame on internal routing of EPS, to the derailleurs and 'triggers'...and well...never mind, I'm out, gonna install a EPS on an older Merckx.

[dd74]

I've fiddled with Di2 in my LBS, but I've yet to encounter EPS.

http://serotta.com/bicycles/ottrott-se/

Here Serotta has the Ottrott ready for internal wiring and internal Di2 battery, with EPS internal battery coming this summer.

How are these battery applications different?
Good question. The EPS battery is much larger than Di2. The only frame I've seen where the EPS battery pack is internal is the DeRosa 888 Superking.
http://www.derosanews.com/englis/DEROSA25_888_Superking_Bianco.html

[reggiebaseball]

Good question. The EPS battery is much larger than Di2. The only frame I've seen where the EPS battery pack is internal is the DeRosa 888 Superking.
http://www.derosanews.com/englis/DEROSA25_888_Superking_Bianco.html

this bike serves a pic
http://www.derosanews.com/modules/DeRosa/images/bici/8881200_nero.jpg

[dd74]

Anyone know what handlebars those are on the DeRosa pic above?

[jpw]

Good question. The EPS battery is much larger than Di2. The only frame I've seen where the EPS battery pack is internal is the DeRosa 888 Superking.
http://www.derosanews.com/englis/DEROSA25_888_Superking_Bianco.html

Thanks. Where is the battery on the De Rosa?

[sw3759]

"Anyone know what handlebars those are on the DeRosa pic above? "


guessing the bars are fsa k force like the link below



http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2013-fsa-k-force-light-nano-k-compact-handlebar-11460.28.1.html

[dd74]

Thanks. Where is the battery on the De Rosa?
In the down tube, close to the bottom bracket.

[dd74]

"Anyone know what handlebars those are on the DeRosa pic above? "


guessing the bars are fsa k force like the link below



http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-components/2013-fsa-k-force-light-nano-k-compact-handlebar-11460.28.1.html
Hmm, thanks. I've never seen them wrapped like that across the top bar. In fact I didn't know a person could wrap the entire bar.

[jpw]

In the down tube, close to the bottom bracket.

...*in* the down tube?

Is it a different shape to the external battery, because how would it get in there?

[fuzzalow]

Unabashed fool for DeRosas. Lost the bug for carbon bikes but there is always temptation and the Italians are very good at creating desire.

IMO the next advance to EPS will be in the motors, right now they are unsightly and unlike a battery, cannot be hidden away in down tubes and ISPs. The smaller and more efficient motors will likely make for less peak amperage consumed for a gear change which then allows a smaller battery. That's why wireless is less probable - the battery drain to effect transmission is high relative to a blip sent through a wire. All speculation on my part but the evolution of high tech is not all that radical once the product cycle has started.

[54ny77]

to the op, that's a nice frame ya got there.

good luck & have fun with the electric. :cool:

[dd74]

...*in* the down tube?

Is it a different shape to the external battery, because how would it get in there?
Yeah, I don't know. But as I recall a photo of the frame, the battery was located in the down tube via a little cover/door.

[FlashUNC]

So after a weekend on the stuff, some thoughts:

1) This will probably disappoint some folks, but the shifting, by itself, I wouldn't necessarily separate out from a properly tuned 10 or 11 speed system from Campy. The shifting is excellent and on par with their usual high-end stuff, but in and of itself, its not head and shoulders above mechanical Chorus/Record/Super Record.

2) Where it does stand out, and I think this might be an enormous differentiator long-term, is that it shifts the right way all the time, regardless of load. I'm a hamfisted idiot on a bike. And this papers over so many of those issues. Cross chaining? It trims the FD automatically. Need that bailout gear up a steep hill? It'll pop right where you need to go without any fuss. Need to suddenly get into the big or small ring while applying power? No worries.

So, you combine 1 and 2, and you get what I think is the best Campy's got to offer shift-wise right now. I never missed a shift all weekend, it did what I asked of it and it did so flawlessly. It just worked. Isn't that what a good group is supposed to do?

Some other niggling issues I didn't anticipate:

1) Coming from mechanical shifting, you're used to a particular amount of force required to get the shift going, either front or rear. That obviously disappears here. Something I didn't think I'd necessarily realize I'd had muscle-memoried until it was gone.

2) Campy's claim of going down the entire cassette in 1.5 seconds or so isn't fluff. But it leads to some adjustment on my end. In holding down the shifting button to grab multiple gears, it seems the computer has a tendency to conclude "well, he's holding this thing down and not letting go, he must not need the 21 or the 19. He must want the 12, let's go there right now!" The same happens in reverse going up the cassette. Seems to be a fairly common complaint from new adoptees given the reviews I've read, but still something I'm adjusting to nonetheless.

Overall -- and this is admittedly still in the honeymoon period -- but I'm officially done mocking the electronic set, either EPS or Di2. This stuff isn't a gimmick. Its legit.

And my frame didn't explode with EPS bits mounted externally either...

[OtayBW]

Anyone know what handlebars those are on the DeRosa pic above?
Looks very similar to a Modolo Curvissisma.

[fuzzalow]

Straight shooting review. I can see the allure of shifting electronically versus mechanically. It's got its own feel and learning curve. And I count myself among the luddites that saw using battery power as akin to falling off the edge of the earth.

Like using a sequential shift transmission versus a gated manual in a car. Progress, new technique to learn, resets the bar for the new norm.

[dd74]

Like using a sequential shift transmission versus a gated manual in a car. Progress, new technique to learn, resets the bar for the new norm.
Sequential shift is a "ram and bam" situation (if you've ever used straight-cut geared transmissions).

Witness Hans Stuck at work with sequential shifting. It's more like mechanical Campy than electronic...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvbkz_hans-stuck-bmw-m3-gtr-au-nurburgrin_auto#.UWJ6FBksLZs

...he's just banging and nothing more (barely lifting his clutch foot), but still, he knows his shift points for the manual.

Campy EPS, on the other hand, exists on a whole different (i.e. higher) level. You really need not do anything for it to work properly on its own.

[jpw]

does Campagnolo offer a satellite shifter button unit for the tops?

[fuzzalow]

Sequential shift is a "ram and bam" situation (if you've ever used straight-cut geared transmissions).

Witness Hans Stuck at work with sequential shifting. It's more like mechanical Campy than electronic...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvbkz_hans-stuck-bmw-m3-gtr-au-nurburgrin_auto#.UWJ6FBksLZs

...he's just banging and nothing more (barely lifting his clutch foot), but still, he knows his shift points for the manual.

Campy EPS, on the other hand, exists on a whole different (i.e. higher) level. You really need not do anything for it to work properly on its own.

First full lap in-car video of the Nordscliffe I've seen, very cool. Overtaking on corner entry is a supreme act of faith and yet harmless in comparison to passing on a long straight.

Sequential trannys to most folks means a paddle shifted electro-hydraulic (which is not the same as a slushbox with + & - switches on the wheel so the average driver can pretend). Never drove a straight-cut sequential, just a race gearbox without synchros which meant double clutch on the downshifts, at least in theory.

[FlashUNC]

does Campagnolo offer a satellite shifter button unit for the tops?

Nope. I think I read somewhere that was patented by Shimano.

Even with the changed lever design for EPS, I can still reach the "pinkie shift" when I'm on the tops.

[oldpotatoe]

does Campagnolo offer a satellite shifter button unit for the tops?

Nope, not now. Maybe in the future along with in seat tube battery.

[CPP]

Nope, not now. Maybe in the future along with in seat tube battery.

Seriously, what do you mean by future?

[Black Dog]

Seriously, what do you mean by future?

future |ˈfyo͞oCHər|
noun
1 (usu. the future) the time or a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing; time regarded as still to come: we plan on getting married in the near future | work on the building will be halted for the foreseeable future.
• events that will or are likely to happen in the time to come: nobody can predict the future.
• used to refer to what will happen to someone or something in the time to come: a blueprint for the future of American fast food.
• a prospect of success or happiness: he'd decided that there was no future in the gang | I began to believe I might have a future as an artist.
• Grammar a tense of verbs expressing events that have not yet happened.

2 (futures) Finance short for futures contract.
adjective [ attrib. ]
at a later time; going or likely to happen or exist: the needs of future generations.
• (of a person) planned or destined to hold a specified position: his future wife.
• existing after death: expectation of a future life.
• Grammar (of a tense) expressing an event yet to happen.

PHRASES
for future reference see reference.
in future chiefly Brit.from now on: she would be more careful in future.

DERIVATIVES
futureless adjective

ORIGIN late Middle English: via Old French from Latin futurus, future participle of esse ‘be’ (from the stem fu-, ultimately from a base meaning ‘grow, become’).

:banana:

With campy you never know, they keep their cards very close to their chest.

[jpw]

Seriously, what do you mean by future?

another twenty years? start saving up:)

[thirdgenbird]

With campy you never know, they keep their cards very close to their chest.

Normally, but according to reports on other forums, campy freely discusses that they are working on an internal battery and we should see it soon. Apparently some industry insiders (fairwheel bikes) have already seen either in flesh or on paper but won't leak info.

[CPP]

I rode a bike with the shimano electric for a short ride and used the unit on the tops of the bars. I really liked it! I hope the "future" means my future.

[jpw]

Normally, but according to reports on other forums, campy freely discusses that they are working on an internal battery and we should see it soon. Apparently some industry insiders (fairwheel bikes) have already seen either in flesh or on paper but won't leak info.

where will this battery go on the bike?

[dd74]

It'll probably go in the down tube or seat post. It will probably also be much smaller than the Fiat 500-looking battery/brain EPS has now.

Wireless will be my next group set. A guy at my LBS said to expect wireless in about three years, though not necessarily first from Campagnolo.

[thirdgenbird]

where will this battery go on the bike?


All i know is that Fairwheel did mention Campagnolo made a unique or questionable desicion in its design. I am guessing that the battery will reside in the seat tube or seatpost but there is still a small external portion that mounts similar to the existing battery for the charge port and shut off "switch".

[FlashUNC]

It'll probably go in the down tube or seat post. It will probably also be much smaller than the Fiat 500-looking battery/brain EPS has now.

Wireless will be my next group set. A guy at my LBS said to expect wireless in about three years, though not necessarily first from Campagnolo.

Coulda had wireless back in 1999:

http://www.mavicusa.com/en/history/1996/1999/Mektronic

[christian]

Wireless will be my next group set.I don't think wireless makes much sense - will require multiple batteries and more failure points.

FWIW, I rode a Di2 bike this weekend for the first time. I was substantially more impressed than I thought I'd be. I guess I never realized how much effort it takes to shift. For people with small hands, it's definitely the ticket.

[Shillc]

I don't think wireless makes much sense - will require multiple batteries and more failure points.

FWIW, I rode a Di2 bike this weekend for the first time. I was substantially more impressed than I thought I'd be. I guess I never realized how much effort it takes to shift. For people with small hands, it's definitely the ticket.

Agreed. I have smallish hands and love, love, love the diminished effort it takes to shift, especially after a long climb when you need to accelerate over the top. (Versus SR mechanical)
Overall, the group (SR eps) has been flawless and a true pleasure to ride on.
The battery/ brains does not bother me on a nude Parlee Z1.
The Magnet location is the only drawback I can claim, as my hands are not small enough to make it easy to insert/remove.

[Black Dog]

Agreed. I have smallish hands and love, love, love the diminished effort it takes to shift, especially after a long climb when you need to accelerate over the top. (Versus SR mechanical)
Overall, the group (SR eps) has been flawless and a true pleasure to ride on.
The battery/ brains does not bother me on a nude Parlee Z1.
The Magnet location is the only drawback I can claim, as my hands are not small enough to make it easy to insert/remove.

Really, how much effort is going into your shifting? If it is too much effort to shift how are you moving those cranks in circles? :eek:

All teasing aside, welcome to the forum! :)

[Shillc]

Really, how much effort is going into your shifting? If it is too much effort to shift how are you moving those cranks in circles? :eek:

All teasing aside, welcome to the forum! :)

Thanks!
I understand the criticism and I thought it was just me.
It's not a big thing but at times in races when cresting climbs going all out, I'm so spent that I have momentary trouble shifting mechanical SR.
It's a very small detail, but has made me very enamored with the response.

[oldpotatoe]

It'll probably go in the down tube or seat post. It will probably also be much smaller than the Fiat 500-looking battery/brain EPS has now.

Wireless will be my next group set. A guy at my LBS said to expect wireless in about three years, though not necessarily first from Campagnolo.

Interesting in that the ders and battery 'may' still be wired, with the 'wireless' part going to the battery, to move the ders..I guess. I see the problems with wireless things without moving parts all the time on bikes. I think a wireless, electronic, wet disc brakes, all internal, will make it anm expensive, complicated gadget... on such a pure, simple thing as a bike. Too bad...but I don't have to ride it.

[jpw]

Nope. I think I read somewhere that was patented by Shimano.



Look familiar?

http://www.bikerecyclery.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/499/image/1997/

http://www.bikerecyclery.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/499/image/1993/

prior art.

Shimano must have purchased the rights from Mavic if Campagnolo is prevented from offering a similar switch.

[soulspinner]

I rode my 11 speed mechanical bike this weekend paying particular attention to shifting because of this and other electronic conversations. Uphill front changes would be an improvement under power but the rear shifting is so good. How about front electronic only?

[jpw]

How about front electronic only?

I've been thinking about that too, but how would the FD know what the RD is doing to be able to trim its position?

I'd like electronic bar end and top shifters going straight to electronic FD and RD, each with their own independent battery supply and chip.

[jr59]

Interesting in that the ders and battery 'may' still be wired, with the 'wireless' part going to the battery, to move the ders..I guess. I see the problems with wireless things without moving parts all the time on bikes. I think a wireless, electronic, wet disc brakes, all internal, will make it anm expensive, complicated gadget... on such a pure, simple thing as a bike. Too bad...but I don't have to ride it.


No you just have to fix it for idiots like me!

BTW: I hope all is well with your family. Grandpa!

[oldpotatoe]

No you just have to fix it for idiots like me!

BTW: I hope all is well with your family. Grandpa!

Many thanks, she is a beautiful red head, just like her papa. all is well. Kinda makes bike stuff seem small doesn't it, new baby.

[soulspinner]

I've been thinking about that too, but how would the FD know what the RD is doing to be able to trim its position?

I'd like electronic bar end and top shifters going straight to electronic FD and RD, each with their own independent battery supply and chip.

A sensor to know chain distance..????

[FlashUNC]

A third-ish update.

So I was looking around for my magnet shut-off key as expected. Found it in the laundry room of all places. The reason? Girlfriend said it was "stuck to the inside of the washer" after she did laundry that included some of my jerseys. Must have left it in a pocket when I went for a ride.

The reason she didn't toss it out: "I figured it was some random thing for one of your bikes."

Ah, she's a keeper.

[one60]

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Token-valve-extender-with-campagnolo-EPS-plug-port-TK3294.jpg

Havent seen one of these magnets but maybe one could adapt a bolt-on style bar end cover to hold it? Is it hollow at the end or solid? If hollow, it might just thread onto the bolt & stay in place inside the bar?

http://janheine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/bar_plug.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

Why bother taking it with you? Can't you just leave it at home attached to this:

http://www.rotary13b1.com/images/products/1084_reg.jpg

[FlashUNC]

Why bother taking it with you? Can't you just leave it at home attached to this:

http://www.rotary13b1.com/images/products/1084_reg.jpg

I did it without thinking really. Just more evidence I'm due for losing it at some point.

[thirdgenbird]

I did it without thinking really. Just more evidence I'm due for losing it at some point.

The keychain above will mitigate that chance.

[dd74]

I really don't understand the key addition to EPS. Why would anyone need to shut it down? If the brain unit drains of power after a lack of use, just recharge it. It seems Campy might have over thought this part of the EPS package.

[FlashUNC]

I really don't understand the key addition to EPS. Why would anyone need to shut it down? If the brain unit drains of power after a lack of use, just recharge it. It seems Campy might have over thought this part of the EPS package.

My understanding is its designed to keep the battery from losing its ability to sustain charge with long-term storage.

But yeah, seems on a day-to-day basis you don't need it.

[thirdgenbird]

My understanding is its designed to keep the battery from losing its ability to sustain charge with long-term storage.

But yeah, seems on a day-to-day basis you don't need it.

This is how I take it.

Lithium Ion batteries naturally drain and have a limmited number of cycles. No reason to waste them on a bike in winter storage. If the bike is ridden reasonably often I would say its not overly nessisary. Without using or owning the product, I would say its one of those "features" that some may like, and others can basically ignore. Don't like it? Toss the key in your tool box and forget about it.

[palincss]

Unless the break is just at the wrong spot, a bottle cage bolt will do nicely for this on Ergo-equipped bikes.


Don't know about Campagnolo cables, as nobody I ride with has a Campy system, but Shimano cables always seem to break up at the shifter.


You may have to use the "front" half of the cable, but 99.99% of the time, one half of the cable will be long enough to reach from the lowest bottle cage bolt, through the rear housing noodle, and fastened to the r.d.

I've never seen the cable break at the rear derailleur, only up at the shifter. So the "back half" of the cable is always long enough to reach from the rear derailleur to a water bottle cage bolt. Only thing to bear in mind is, push the derailleur in by hand and then cinch it down with the cable. Don't try to pull the cable into the proper position by tugging on the cable.