Riding with your child - Front Mounted Bike Seats?

[maximus]

My lil guy just turned 9 mos and hes a pretty stout little dude. I think it's time to get him out for a ride. Entertaining a couple of options, so I thought I would get some feedback based on experience. I have narrowed it down to two:

WeeRide Kanagroo (http://www.amazon.com/WeeRide-Kangaroo-Child-Bike-Seat/dp/B000FIH0EG)
This thing is kinda a beast. It's big and it has a bar that you install across your top tube. Since I use the bike for other duties like commuting, it might be difficult to move on and off. I like the idea of the pad - hes a strong boy, it will protect him if he lunges forward in an emergency stop. Also he can nap if his dad is boring him to sleep ;)

Yepp Mini (http://www.rei.com/product/815610/yepp-mini-front-bicycle-child-carrier,-orange?preferredSku=8156100002?cm_mmc&partner=cse_bing&mr:referralID=0355bb55-ead3-11e0-9e9c-001b2166c62d)
Much more streamlined than the Kangaroo - smaller and the install looks easier to take on and off. The stem mount looks a little precarious to me - my son + the full weight of the seat on the shaft portion of a Nitto Pearl? Also, it looks pretty limiting as far as weight (up to 33 lbs - my guy is already about 28 and growing fast).

Any suggestions or thoughts? This will be going on a an old Motobecane Grand Record road frame. I am thinking of doing city bars (http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/handlebars/vo-porteur-bar-config.html) for clearance reasons. His safety and comfort are my number one concerns. Ease of removing it and ride quality come second.

Thanks :beer:

[DRZRM]

I don't like anything that means if I fall or the bike falls, the kid is going to deck out from up there. I went with trailers, first a Burley when I had one son, then a Chariot when my second son came along. I've only used a baby seat on a rental in Ireland on an island with almost no traffic, and I still didn't feel comfortable on it, the center of balance is just too high.

[maximus]

I appreciate that. Unfortunately, San Diego lacks good bike-only trails. The thought of towing him behind me on the road makes me pretty nervous.

I am getting this specifically for CicLAvia (http://ciclavia.wordpress.com/)in a few weeks to test it out in a relatively safe environment.

[93legendti]

Burley trailer here. Putting the child up front won't help if you're hit from behind....and there is always the risk of a frontal impact.

I got a lot of use out of my Burley. My son is 7 and still asks me to pull him in it.

The Burley has a roll bar and stays upright, even if you go down... Fr me it was the safest option of riding with a child.

[DRZRM]

Yeah, the sense of security you have with your kid in front of you doesn't offer much actual protection. The trailer with the flag generally makes drivers give you a much wider berth that having the child in the front seat they can't actually see when overtaking from behind. The frame on the trailers offer actual protection in case of an accident.

That said, for these very reasons, I spend almost all of my time riding with the kids in a park closed to traffic or on a MUP.

[Bradford]

I'm going to pile on here. You want your kid in a roll cage surrounded by bright red cloth and an orange flag...that means Chariot.

I would never put that much weight that high on a bike, child or not. Based on all my riding with a full and partial loads (back packs, panniers, handle bar bags, rack bags and a Chariot), this one isn’t even close. There are things that can go wrong both ways, but there are so many more ways things can go wrong with a kid sitting in front of you than with a kid sitting in a Chariot.

[Black Dog]

Only a trailer for both of my kids. Simple and safe as they are isolated from any fall that I may take. Besides, they get some space and can entertain themselves while in a trailer and are also protected from weather or not depending on how I rig the trailer.

[vqdriver]

i tried a friend's ibert when visiting and can say there's no way i feel my child is safe up there. they love the ride and the secure feeling of having you close, and the ability to talk to them is great. but's it's not worth the oddball weighted steering and the propensity for flopover. and let's be realistic, you're not doing centuries with these things. typically just jaunts around the neighborhood or an hour around a country club type riding, and that means stop signs and curbs. and you're far more likely to come to complete stops at intersections = awkward starts and stops with some weaving. i don't like em.

[rugbysecondrow]

I used both the Ibert front seat and Chariot trailers. My daughter and I both liked the Ibert, I didn't use it as much with my son. Neither really liked being in a trailer and I don't blame them. The trailer was more of a necessary evil, they came with me but got bored and restless. The Ibert front bike seat, my daughter liked holding onto the bars, acting like she was steering, we could talk, point out things to one another. I would buy one again in a minute if I had the need.

Lots of perceived and real dangers in the world, we all weigh risk/reward and make decisions. Why protect the kid and leave me open to danger? Aren't I the one who has to raise them, provide for them etc? If safety is such a concern, I ought not be riding either because of the danger I put myself in, right?

Just my view of the world.


Here I am pulling double duty.

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp217/phpeter/6e1efff3.jpg


Here is a photo from when there was only one, my little girl. Funny, she is my risk taker now and she loves nothing more than riding, bombing down grassy hills and off-roading. Good Times!

[kenmetzger]

I have not had personal experience with it, but I know many people that are very happy with the iBert (http://www.rei.com/product/831288/ibert-safe-t-seat-child-carrier).

Having the child up front can make the ride much more enjoyable, as you can actually talk with them along the way. Overall a trailer may be safer, but there is still a rollover risk (had this happen to a friend).

[zott28]

Biggest problem with the ride upfront is that your son will fall asleep, and there is no support for them.
I have this, and it supports her well when she falls asleep.
http://www.topeak.com/products/Child-Carrier/babyseat_wrack
Now I just need to find a way to get her to keep her helmet on.

[Rubeboy]

My son and I have been using an iBert for the past year and a half or so. He loves it; being able to see what's ahead, lean into turns and talk to me during a ride make it really enjoyable for him.
I've never ridden further than to a park nearby which is about 5 miles each way. For that distance it's fine.
I had to modify my commuter with swept back bars and I lowered my saddle so he sat right in front of me and the weight distribution is not too off.

I like it.

[HenryA]

Trailer only and then he might be a bit young yet. Babies need to be able to hold their heads up while wearing a helmet for the length of the ride. Until he can do that I'd just walk with him. He is still a baby.

Imagine a can of paint on a step ladder that falls over. The paint splatters all over the place on impact. Now substitute your child's head for the paint can. Not a good thought. You won't mean to fall over, and it may never happen but the price of failure is huge. A trailer is vastly safer IMO.

And before anyone gets upset over this, I'm the kid who was allowed to do anything that was not guaranteed-certain-death when I grew up and allowed my kid to do the same. But you don't have to learn everything first hand. And this is one thing you don't want to learn.

[rugbysecondrow]

How is that any different than any of us riding our bikes? My daughter and I rode 5.5 miles today(each on our own bikes) isn't the danger still there?

I mostly agree with your analogy, but it seems that is an argument against riding as a whole, bikes in general, and not the front seats. Not only that but a case for not climbing up high, playing on play sets or anything where a fall is possible.

Again, we all draw lines, some more emotionally based than rationally based. I loved watching my daughter and spending time with her on the bike, and so did she. Maybe that clouds the real danger? Maybe the possible fear of injury/death clouds the rationality and likelihood of that event actually occurring.

It's all good. We all do the best we can and hope we don't **** up. There is no owners manual.

Cheers!

[vqdriver]

clearly we all have our own comfort levels and have to find that balance.
i, personally, didn't feel safe with the handlebar seat.
completely aside from what would happen in the event of a fall or accident, i felt that with the weighted steering the seat would actually cause an accident where there wouldn't be one otherwise. that's not to say it would necessarily be a big deal, maybe some scrapes or such but the bike definitely felt more tippy for sure.

to each his own. not for me, but perhaps the op can try before buying.

[1/2 Wheeler]

No question a baby seat will make the bike feel more tippy. If you can't get comfortable with that you should avoid. For myslef I would be more concerned with running the trailer tires over a curb or something.


For me my comfort zone was a bike seat on a Fat Tire bike with an upright position and platform pedals. I would not consider using one clipped in.

[jh_on_the_cape]

I have a Chariot Cougar 1 and 2 (sold the 2).
Kid should be 1 year and wear a proper fitting helmet. Ask your pediatrician for advice, not some internet dude.
SO much safer and better than an ibert.
as stated:
1. safer (height)
2. kid can sleep
3. you can ride properly. For my oldest I regularly did 20 mile rides for his nap. I ride, kid naps, mom is happy.

con: you don't really interact with your kid as much. also takes more space. My brother did the ibert because he lives in the center of a big city and does not have space in the apartment for the trailer and it's tough to park anywhere besides the playground.

the conception of the trailer being dangerous is simply not true. It is as unsafe as a bike, and safer than a kid on a bike seat.

The chariot cougar is awesome. costs $$ but so worth it if you bike and ride and like to walk mellow woods trails.

have fun with it.

[maximus]

Thanks guys, this is exactly the type of feedback that I am looking for.

A trailer is probably out of the question at the moment - mostly due to limited funds and space. I can see the argument for it being the safest option though.

This will be a fat tire ride with a relaxed handlebar. Mostly looking for something for the family-friendly group rides that will pop up in SoCal this spring. I think this sort of occasion presents a decent venue for a top mounted seat. Of course there is no avoiding the potential dangers involved in just about any cycling scenario, but I feel OK about it. Hopefully some flat pedals (no straps) and the right riding position and good helmets will minimize the risk.

After hearing your thoughts on the awkward weight distribution, I'd say the Yep Mini is out of the question. The Ibert looks like a decent option too. Thanks @Rugbysecondrow for the pics -- gives me a good sense of what kind of handlebar might work best for this setup.

[cetuximab]

We have lots of kid haulers. We have used the kangaroo seat the most. It is so nice to take my daughter to the park. I can point out things, talk and interact. It is best for short distances, some parks are .5 miles, one is 2.5 miles. The kangaroo seat has a pad that my daughter can rest her arms on, and twice she has laid her head down.

We have a chariot cougar 2. It is hard to navigate getting from the crosswalk back onto the sidewalk. I had a rig up a pulley system so I could suspend it from the ceiling of my garage. But it great for longer distances. In the winter the kids keep warm because of the plastic rain screen. Two warm bodies in a closed space. I feel their hands when we get to the park and they are toasty.

My new favorite is the weehoo trail a bike. http://www.rei.com/product/839312/weehoo-igo-pro-trailer-bike

My 2 y o rides in the kangaroo. My 5 y o rides in the weehoo. We looks a locomotive. My daughter on the weehoo is strapped in, so I don't worry about her forgetting that she has to hold on. It is easier to navigate from the crosswalks to the sidewalks than the chariot trailer. It is easy to navigate past the posts they put in the middle of the bikepaths to keep the cars/four wheelers out.

This spring they will come out with a double weehoo.

[zott28]

My new favorite is the weehoo trail a bike. http://www.rei.com/product/839312/weehoo-igo-pro-trailer-bike


That would be a nice item to spend my '20% off' on...

[pdmtong]

I've passed this stage with my daughter.

For us, the ibert or trailer was a waste of time and money. My kid would last about 15 minutes in a burley cart. she hated being strapped in. head at an awkward angle. or, she fell asleep. easier to just drive down to the park and back. as for the safety perspectives - to each his own. my wife has worked with a lot of head injured kids...so anything up high was a no go. the trailer I got off CL, good price. sold it a year later for 2x what I paid. not bad.

I'm not raining on you guys who like it. I am just saying it wasnt for us. a third opinion if you will

besides, the time from needing one of those contraptions to getting her on a 12" with training wheels was short. And, I never did like hauling around the trailer using my dads trek 820 for exercise. kid wouldnt last the time it would take to get a decent ride in. so that only left the option of short rides, hence the view of why bother.

Alley cat trailer bike was a different story. we used that a lot for farmers market, etc. I racked that thing out and it became the kid and grocery hauler.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Another thing to consider and I'm sure each person may differ on this as well.

I was never crazy comfortable loading and unloading a kid solo. I tried to plan the rides around having help. Could do it solo but felt it was the most dangerous part of the trip.

Of course back in the day I was using a rear mounted child seat. Would be interested to hear if the front one load/unload easier.

[akelman]

A trailer is probably out of the question at the moment - mostly due to limited funds and space.

If you can find the space and will be in NorCal any time soon, let me know. I might be ready to get rid of my Burley Solo.

[93legendti]

My son would take 1 1/2 hr naps in the burley. I got some great big gear rides in while pulling him. My kids' preschool was 5 miles way and i would pick them up ith the burley and later my tandem for my older child, pulling the burley for my younger child. Good times.

[giverdada]

we were riding along at a good clip in the middle of a charity bike ride that i now refuse to do because of the dangers of others' and their complete, replete lack of handling skills and bike awareness. my brother was pulling my daughter. someone bumped into him. they both went down. my daughter, in her chariot, was fast asleep as my brother got road rash all over one side and we all started yelling so as to alert oncoming riders. she only woke up when we opened up the canopy to check on her and see how she was. drooling and happy and completely unharmed. chariot only.

i know that chariots are low and behind us as we ride. i know that a lot of cars have problems with them as they are low. and others have problems with them because they are behind or because they are at exhaust pipe level. but knowing that i could fall, hard, roll myself or mishandle something or whatever, and still have a perfectly secure and safe child trumps all that other stuff. of course, ymmv.

the helmet thing on a small person's neck and full support on all sides is really important. kinda like the 'car seat test' for newborns leaving a hospital. we also packed my daughter in when she was really young with a bunch of rolled towels on either side so that she wouldn't get shifted around with road jostling. give'r.

[572cv]

Our kids are long since grown, so this is probably a well dated data point... We had a Dutch made seat which mounted in front over the front fork. Both children survived. Daughter loved thrill of seeing the road in front, has become a killer descender and was in the top twenty women's pro riders in the country in criterium last year. I'm sure it was all due to risky behavioral training :)

I figured I could wrap myself around them in front of me in that seat if it came to it. YMMV......

[flyhippy]

Finally a thread I can be useful for. If you use a front mount bike seat, it will impede on your legs when you pedal. That being said, most people realize this when they start to consider it. I've tried a Yepp - it was awful. I tried the green monstrousity, it seriously impedes on arms, legs, chest, everything. The best I found, was the Bobike Mini. I have it on a Kona Ute, so I have a bit more of an upright riding position, but I don't hit my legs at all, and now that my daughter is two, I'm going to move her to the back and get my son (six months) on the front.

As for all the internet mumbo jumbo about not riding with them on a bike until after ayear - my daughter was quite stout as well (she's 90-100th percentile in all categories) and we started riding with her in the front seat when she was six months. You'll find if you look at the european specs for identical seats, they start much earlier than in the litigation happy US.

[93legendti]

I just did the training on 3point5 for Burley. If half of their claims re testing are true (and based upon my years using a Burley, they are), its the safest way to go.

http://www.burley.com/home/bur/smartlist_177/safety.html


"Safety Tests for Child Trailers

Drum Test simulates the trailer going over a bump 10,000 times to make sure the axel and frame will remain strong. Also known as Axle and Frame System Fatigue Test. (ASTM F 1975-09 5.4)
Drop Test puts the child restraint system to the ultimate test by dropping the trailer on its nose from 3.9 ft (1.2 m). Also known as Restraint System Test. (ASTM F 1975-09 5.1.1)
Crush Test simulates a worst-case scenario for the structural integrity of the trailer frame by crushing the frame at an angle on the highest point of the frame. Also known as Structural Integrity in Rollover Test (ASTM F 1975-09 5.1.2)
Push-Pull Test simulates a stop and go motion of the hitch connection for over 100,000 cycles to make sure the hitch and frame will last. Coupling Security Test. (ASTM F 1975-09 5.3
Tip over Resistance Test verifies that the trailer's center of gravity is low enough to reduce the chance of the trailer tipping over during hard cornering or when one wheel encounters a large obstacle. (ASTM F 1975-09 5.2)
All Burley products are initially and periodically tested conforming to maximum allowable levels of banned substances under CPSC, ASTM and EN hazardous substance limitations requirements. These substances include lead, PAHs, and phthalates. Read more in our Corporate Responsibility Policies."

[JAGI410]

I just retired my ibert seat, as my 3.5yr old has outgrown it. We used it since he was 10 months old and it was a great solution to bring him on rides with us. I've since moved to the Yepp Maxi/Xtracycle Peapod, mounted on my xtracycle. I don't like it nearly as much! While the seat is nicer, and its probably more comfortable for him, I really miss the interaction that is only possible from a front mounted seat! It was great to point things out, and have conversations. Now that he's behind me, I can hardly hear him.

For as little as the iBert costs, I highly recommend it.

[ofcounsel]

Biggest problem with the ride upfront is that your son will fall asleep, and there is no support for them.
I have this, and it supports her well when she falls asleep.
http://www.topeak.com/products/Child-Carrier/babyseat_wrack
Now I just need to find a way to get her to keep her helmet on.

I used this one for my son until just recently. He just turned 4 and likes to ride himself now. But I was really happy with the seat. It holds the child in well and can accommodate them as they get bigger. It also comes on and off very easily and the base rack can be used for other Topeak compatible pannier bags.

[dd74]

Don't do the front-mounted seats in Los Angeles. The LAPD will more likely stop you as will any host of concerned citizens, all to ridicule you about its danger. And they're correct. It is dangerous.

1) Trailer; 2) training wheels; 3) bike w/o training wheels is how to intro kids into cycling.

[rwsaunders]

I tried both a rear mounted seat and a front mounted seat when the kids were young and I thought the biggest pita was loading and unloading the kids, especially when riding solo. I found a used Burley on CL and never looked back. Easy to load, never worried about tipping and good for hauling extra gear like diapers, picnic lunch, water bottles, etc.

All of our riding was on bike trails so I can't claim any city riding experience with it, and it does take up some space even when folded. All in all a very clever design and easy to sell when you're done with it. My only gripe was that they didn't offer a tubular wheel version at the time...it's always felt so slow when hauling two kids. :cool:

[flyhippy]

Don't do the front-mounted seats in Los Angeles. The LAPD will more likely stop you as will any host of concerned citizens, all to ridicule you about its danger. And they're correct. It is dangerous.

1) Trailer; 2) training wheels; 3) bike w/o training wheels is how to intro kids into cycling.

So are they stopping all motorcyclists without a helmet, or who ride with passengers that are only modestly holding on to them, or cyclists without a helmet, or cyclists rocking nob rakes...

Sounds like you live in a nanny state my friend. I've never felt even the slightest bit in danger of tipping with my child on the front. I would be FAR more paranoid knowing my child is in a wider trailer behind my bike, that is much more likely to get clipped by an unobservant motorist. Especially when they are this young, as others have said, it si great to be able to see and interact with them on the front.

[JEMM]

:)

[dd74]

So are they stopping all motorcyclists without a helmet, or who ride with passengers that are only modestly holding on to them, or cyclists without a helmet, or cyclists rocking nob rakes...
I don't know what a nob rake is, but yep, they stop motorcyclists without helmets. They'll even stop the Easter Bunny (http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/national/easter-bunny-pulled-over-photo-san-diego-california-highway-patrol-officer-pulls-over-easter-bunny1364824332994). Cyclists w/o helmets haven't been stopped yet.

Sounds like you live in a nanny state my friend.
Apart from the fact that it's just damned dangerous, IMO, the cops might counsel a person doing this, not necessarily write them a ticket or remove their kid to child services or something.

I've never felt even the slightest bit in danger of tipping with my child on the front. I would be FAR more paranoid knowing my child is in a wider trailer behind my bike, that is much more likely to get clipped by an unobservant motorist. Especially when they are this young, as others have said, it si great to be able to see and interact with them on the front.
We make our own choices.

[1/2 Wheeler]

so are they stopping all motorcyclists without a helmet, or who ride with passengers that are only modestly holding on to them, or cyclists without a helmet, or cyclists rocking nob rakes...

Sounds like you live in a nanny state my friend. I've never felt even the slightest bit in danger of tipping with my child on the front. I would be far more paranoid knowing my child is in a wider trailer behind my bike, that is much more likely to get clipped by an unobservant motorist. Especially when they are this young, as others have said, it si great to be able to see and interact with them on the front.

+1

[killacks]

I enjoy the Yepp mini, as does my daughter (got it when she was ~1 y.o., she is now 2.5 y.o. and 28 lbs.) and my wife. We have it installed on an Electra Beach Cruiser. It definitely is not the same as riding w/o ~28 lbs. on your handlebars, but the features of the beach cruiser (stable, big handlebars, big tires, etc.) work well with the seat.

I found that it wasn't difficult for either of us to get used to riding with it, though we just use it to go ride the bike paths in mission beach/pb, or to the local park or stores.

One obvious, but unforseen by me, issue was the lack of knee clearance.

Overall, my daughter was thrilled by riding front and center in the Yepp, it felt sturdy enough, and it has been a fun experience for us parents too.

[soupless]

A seat called the Bulldog might work for you. Mounts on the top tube so max weight is 45 lbs. it's been around forever across the pond fwiw.

[harlond]

Don't do the front-mounted seats in Los Angeles. The LAPD will more likely stop you as will any host of concerned citizens, all to ridicule you about its danger. And they're correct. It is dangerous.

1) Trailer; 2) training wheels; 3) bike w/o training wheels is how to intro kids into cycling.Maybe trailers are safer, but I used the Wee Ride, and my son loved it. I never felt unsafe. And he loves to ride.

I'm not sure any product has ever been less accurately named than training wheels. They're good if you want to delay the kid's riding for 6-12 months.

[flyhippy]

Apart from the fact that it's just damned dangerous, IMO, the cops might counsel a person doing this, not necessarily write them a ticket or remove their kid to child services or something.



I'm just saying, where I come from, a cop can't get away with, essentially, harassing citizens. If it is both perfectly safe and perfectly legal, I can't even imagine a cop trying to stop to counsel you about it.

All I can say is, go to Amsterdam, or Portland, or a similar bike-commuter heavy urban environment, and count trailers vs. front and rear mount bike seats.

If you're in the middle of nowhere, and you want to crank and forget you have your kid with you, get a trailer. If you want to take your kids on bike rides, start them in a front mount (small children shouldn't be on a rear seat), move them to the back, and take them for trailer rides occasionally.

[dd74]

I'm just saying, where I come from, a cop can't get away with, essentially, harassing citizens. If it is both perfectly safe and perfectly legal, I can't even imagine a cop trying to stop to counsel you about it.

All I can say is, go to Amsterdam, or Portland, or a similar bike-commuter heavy urban environment, and count trailers vs. front and rear mount bike seats.

If you're in the middle of nowhere, and you want to crank and forget you have your kid with you, get a trailer. If you want to take your kids on bike rides, start them in a front mount (small children shouldn't be on a rear seat), move them to the back, and take them for trailer rides occasionally.
Cool, but I live in Los Angeles, and here, the cops are bike-friendly. They also know that L.A. is where some of the worst drivers in the world seem to still be behind the wheels of cars, which is why they'll stop and "counsel" (not necessarily "harass") someone w/ a kid on their bike, particularly the handlebar area.

At any rate, I've done the front-mounted seat thing, and to be honest, between the crappy roads we have and the preoccupied drivers, once having done a couple of excursions, I simply wasn't willing to take the risk with my own kid.

I'm just going from big city experience. If traffic is less a threat where you live, then by all means, go for it.

[djg]

Dunno. Did the familiar rear-mounted seat, briefly, and hated it. Had much better luck with a trailer (a Bell copy of a Burly, which we found at Costco for a nice price, and it worked great). The kids really enjoyed it, provided they were well-provided for and provided we didn't go very long -- up to an hour, fun; and then the decline. The front set-up always looked a little dodgy to me, although it might work great if you can find one of those long utility bike type rides.

For safety, I think the bottom line with kids may be the same as with adults: yes, the gear shouldn't be fundamentally dangerous, and if there's traffic you want to be visible, but it's mostly about how you ride, and where you ride, and when you ride.

All kids survived, with the youngest now 11, so maybe I did something right, or maybe that's just a really small n "study" and I got lucky.