You LOVE your Pegoretti, but you like your XYZ even better

[reggiebaseball]

I am thinking of getting some new steel bikes this season to "experiment" with more variety.

I must say I love my Pegorettis!

But I am perhaps going to try fillet or lugs, maybe Reynolds or Columbus tubing... maybe something capable of fenders and big tires, perhaps something with a steel fork,

You know, something different-- hopefully that rides as well (or better!)...

Anyway, I wanted to hear from some of the people who own and LOVE their Pegoretti's- about what other bikes they may have, hopefully about some that they like even better.

[RedRider]

I'm a big fan of Gunnar (and a dealer). Well priced, a few tubing and fork choices and numerous stock geometries. If you want custom take a look at their "rich sister" Waterford.
At the higher prices check out Kelly Bedford for custom TIG or lugged.
Tis a shame Serotta stopped using steel.

[AngryScientist]

i dont know what tubeset your pego uses, but i recently got a bike made with columbus spirit tubing, and i am absolutely in love with the ride.

[sevencyclist]

Try Richard Sachs/Kelly Bedford lugged roadbike, or David Kirk/Steve Rex fillet brazed roadbike.

[reggiebaseball]

my Marcelo is EOM 16.5
I think my Duende is Columbus, it is cold-drawn (rather than heat treated)

I definitely had a Spirit bike on my radar thanks!

[Fishbike]

Two Peg basement here -- Duende and Responsorium. And, for good or bad, they have lots of company in said basement. Carbon, steel, ti, aluminum and wood company. Many of them have fancy names on the downtubes. And if I have to pick two -- well, it just mught be those two. I don't think any other is "better" if we are talking road bikes.

That being said I really like my custom Davidson tigged, sloper 853 frame. It is just so nimble and sprightly.

I really like the Merckx Corsa Extra. Just a splendid ride. It's a Frankenbike. Wish I built it with better components.

My Serotta Fierte ti is one of my favs. Like it better than my Moots. It is supposedly not high-end, but I just really ride it comfortable and plenty stiff for me.

As for plastic, my Calfee was the first Carbon bike a really liked. It's comfy, stiff and not creaky. I hate creaky carbon.

There are many, many quality bikes out there. The Pegorettis, IMHO, set a very high bar. I am sure there are many that a critical mass of people would agree are as good. It's really fun to look for those bikes.

[bluesea]

I love my EOM 16.5 Duende, and would be thrilled to get the Columbo version. The Peg has finally moved me out of the Colnago camp, but also have a CAAD 10 I'm trying hard to put together.

For production steel my intrigue with the CSi with a threaded steel fork always remains. Custom, it has to be Dave Kirk.

[Jeff N.]

My Duende it top drawer, but my CSi, Atlanta, 'Nago Master and Landshark Roadshark all get their share of miles.

[reggiebaseball]

I am best suited to the ride of my Duende.

I have a Moots, which is very cool, but I rarely would choose to ride. However, I have a hard time imagining the money better spent if I Were to part with it. I use it for traveling (road trips) because it is so durable, it is also nice on dirt and gravel.

I had a Look 595, but ultimately carbon - even at its best- was too lifeless and I prefer steel. I still think about a second hand Colnago or Crumpton carbon, but I doubt I will do it. I like the Argonaut concept of "Steel 2.0" in carbon, but I am never going to get a $6k CF bike.

I entertain the thought of a second Duende, just for different paint, but that is pretty ridiculous.

Sometimes I have paint scheme ideas, and I think of having a bike built simply to fulfill the paint - but that seems ridiculous too.

[christian]

I had a Palosanto.

Two steel bikes stand above it in my mind:
- My Merckx MX-L. It was really heavy, and the brazing and paint were workmanlike, but I liked the steering more than the Palosanto, and the ride was ever so slightly more "planted"
- My Zanc cx bike. Really light, amazing handling, that quality steel feel.

I'd love to have Mike build me a MAX-tubed, 29mm tubular-fitting, short-reach-brake-having road bike. I can only imagine how good that would be.

[reggiebaseball]

I was thinking about a MAX bike, as I am a bigger rider anyway (100 kilos), and I ride on some crappier roads,

I do not have the romantic association that others do with the tubes, I think I like OS round tubes better, but I have not looked at one enough from the riders perspective to be sure.

I have been thinking of something ala Hampsten Max,

I would like stiffness up front and forgiveness in the rear - maybe Max with spirit stays like Hampsten recommends. And, as you say, clearance for 29mm tubies or maybe 25 with fenders?

[sante pollastri]

I've a palosanto,and many other bikes,also in columbus spiriut tubes,but the best one,in my opinion,is the new colnago master.
not more gilco(columbus tubing) but may be dedacciai.....another planet.

[rphetteplace]

If you go Max skip route I'd go carbon for a fork as the max steel forks are very very stiff.

[ergott]

Mike Zanconato. Lugs or tig, the guy is boss. He builds with Max and will get it right.

[fuzzalow]

Everyone has a favorite.

Don't take this as criticism of anyone's choice or in any way critical of Mike Zanc, but there are builders that somehow work their way into the accepted inner circle club. No doubt pushed along by the culture of cool. Mantra. Repeat. IMO a reply of Zanc is credible only if right now there is one in your stable beside a Pegoretti. Otherwise you have been cultivated. Mantra. Repeat.

And there are builders out there that have just as stellar a reputation, burnished by the credibility of decades rather than years that go under appreciated.

My other bikes besides the Marcelo are excellent bikes and different, not better. A well fitted Pegoretti is indeed very, very hard to beat.

[tuscanyswe]

I think you should just get another peg!

You obviously love them and i doubt you would be dissapointed.
Is it all the color choices pushing you towards other options i wonder :)

Kirk makes a mean bike tho. I was amazed how good the package looked when i took delivery of a used one. Just was abit to stiff for me as you know.

[Bkat]

I was thinking about a MAX bike, as I am a bigger rider anyway (100 kilos), and I ride on some crappier roads,

I do not have the romantic association that others do with the tubes, I think I like OS round tubes better, but I have not looked at one enough from the riders perspective to be sure.

I have been thinking of something ala Hampsten Max,

I would like stiffness up front and forgiveness in the rear - maybe Max with spirit stays like Hampsten recommends. And, as you say, clearance for 29mm tubies or maybe 25 with fenders?

+1 on a Hampsten.

[beeatnik]

I am best suited to the ride of my Duende.

I have a Moots, which is very cool, but I rarely would choose to ride. However, I have a hard time imagining the money better spent if I Were to part with it. I use it for traveling (road trips) because it is so durable, it is also nice on dirt and gravel.

I had a Look 595, but ultimately carbon - even at its best- was too lifeless and I prefer steel. I still think about a second hand Colnago or Crumpton carbon, but I doubt I will do it. I like the Argonaut concept of "Steel 2.0" in carbon, but I am never going to get a $6k CF bike.

I entertain the thought of a second Duende, just for different paint, but that is pretty ridiculous.

Sometimes I have paint scheme ideas, and I think of having a bike built simply to fulfill the paint - but that seems ridiculous too.

Reggie, do you like going fast on a road bike? Like say over 30mph on the flats?

[christian]

IMO a reply of Zanc is credible only if right now there is one in your stable beside a Pegoretti. Otherwise you have been cultivated. Mantra. Repeat.Wasn't this the complaint about Dario just a few years ago? "Gee, it's just tig-welded steel. You should get a Co-Motion." FWIW, both Eric (ErgoTT) and I own Zanconatos. I sold my Pegoretti late last year, but I'd as likely as not add 56 Marcelo or Responsorium if one popped up in my area at a fair price -- they're lovely bikes.

As to other builders, sure, there are lots of other great builders in steel. Dario is one of them -- that's why I owned a Pegoretti for 8 years. But Mike's bikes are very, very, very good. I don't think that has much to do with the "cool kids' lunch table."

To me, it's mostly about getting a bike that speaks directly to the ethos of the builder. If I were getting a lugged cx bike, it'd be a Zanconato no questions. If I were getting a 29mm tubular-shod road/D2R2 bike, Hampsten, Zanconato, Foresta, or Winter would probably get the nod. For a straight-on road bike, I'd probably go with Dario or Zullo, Roland Della Santa or maybe Hampsten again. All that speaks to, in my mind, is the incredible wealth of talented builders we have access to now.

[reggiebaseball]

Yes, I love going fast!
But I would need to ride with a tow line to a motorcycle or a team of Clydesdales to go 30mph on the flats.

I can peak at 26mph on the flats, at considerable exertion, for a shorter amount of time than it takes me to eat a donut.

I tend to amble around at 16-20mph and "really motoring" means maybe sustaining 22mph for a while.

I also don't carry a speedometer or computer because the weight would slow me down.:p

My Marcelo is like an amazing steamroller at speed, slams through road bumps without blinking, but over the course of 4 hours at 18mph my butt hurts.

The Duende is near perfect in every regard (stiff front end, sinuous and softer rear end), but nobody needs two of the same bike.

[christian]

The Duende is near perfect in every regard (stiff front end, sinuous and softer rear end), but nobody needs two of the same bike.Is that necessarily true? I own two bikes specifically intended for riding on the road. I like that they're a bit different but the big reason I own two is that any one of them will ALWAYS be ready to go ride. If you really like the Duende, why not get a second?

I have heard of far crazier things.

BTW, I have multiples of my favorite socks (Gold Toe 85% wool OTC), dress shoes (Alden Longwings) and Sneakers (Saucony Kinvara II), and all my underpants are the same brand, model, and size.

Like I said, far crazier things than that.

[tuscanyswe]

Christian makes sense. I always end up missplacing my left Moots after washing!

[jumpjube]

Bought my Peg Duende new, and still enjoy it. On it today, in fact.
But I am a recreational rider only. If you want to look around for something used in steel, I mention several possibilities below (not from me, however -- keeping all of mine!!)

I got rid of my sole carbon bike (a C50), have held on to a couple of steel bikes that I picked up used and actually ride more often than the Duende:

2 Landsharks, one with carbon rear triangle & CF fork (other is all steel);
a Colnago MasterXLight with steel fork;
2 CSi's (F1 & F2 forks)

The only steel bike I don't ride as often as the others is my De Rosa Primato, probably b/c I don't want to mess it up! It is that beautiful.

As for which I "like" best, most days it is a toss-up between the Nag (wearing Hyperon wheels) & the Shark with carbon rear (Reynolds wheels). Also have some ti bikes in regular rotation however.

[christian]

Christian makes sense. I always end up missplacing my left Moots after washing!My mom ties my Colnago to my jacket sleeves so I can't drop it on the playground.

[reggiebaseball]

Is that necessarily true? I own two bikes specifically intended for riding on the road. I like that they're a bit different but the big reason I own two is that any one of them will ALWAYS be ready to go ride. If you really like the Duende, why not get a second?

I have heard of far crazier things.

BTW, I have multiples of my favorite socks (Gold Toe 85% wool OTC), dress shoes (Alden Longwings) and Sneakers (Saucony Kinvara II), and all my underpants are the same brand, model, and size.

Like I said, far crazier things than that.

Well, I already have a Marcelo suited up with carbon wheels for sunny race days.

And a Moots suited up for rainy days (when I don't bother to ride anyway), or that one or two trips or group rides where I have to slam it into the trunk.

And my Duende.

And still, I only have one arse to ride around on at a time,
----

jumpjube-
you are the second person to voice love for a Master X,
but I would ride a size 62 traditional, and I have not heard as many raves about the big sizes as I do about smaller frames.

[roydyates]

Yes, I love going fast!
I can peak at 26mph on the flats, at considerable exertion, for a shorter amount of time than it takes me to eat a donut.

I tend to amble around at 16-20mph and "really motoring" means maybe sustaining 22mph for a while.

I also don't carry a speedometer or computer because the weight would slow me down.:p

LOL

Maybe you are really motoring at 26 or 28. Without a speedo, how can you be sure.

On the other hand, maybe you need a training regimen so that you can hold 26 for longer than it takes to eat a donut. If you practice, I am sure you can learn to eat your donut faster.

[saab2000]

I haven't yet owned a Pegoretti (though I'd love a Marcelo or Big Leg Emma) but I can wholeheartedly endorse a Zanconato. Not because they're the cool bike to own but because they do everything you want a bike to do. This was a custom for me and I love it. I can't think of anything I'd change except maybe I'd like a level top tube. But Mike talked me into a slight slope, which is hard to detect in this picture.

The bike is never the limiting factor. This thing loves eating up the miles. Not a great picture but I just spent a few days riding it up and down the only road in the Outer Banks and I was trying out a Dinotte 400R light for daytime visibility. Seems to be great. Not attractive, but extremely visible. This picture was taken about 3 days ago.

I digress.

If you're looking for a new steel bike I can certainly give a Zanconato the highest recommendation.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8110/8604602122_b8598d1608_b.jpg

[beeatnik]

Hahah.

Ride the Moots more!

Yes, I love going fast!
But I would need to ride with a tow line to a motorcycle or a team of Clydesdales to go 30mph on the flats.

I can peak at 26mph on the flats, at considerable exertion, for a shorter amount of time than it takes me to eat a donut.

I tend to amble around at 16-20mph and "really motoring" means maybe sustaining 22mph for a while.

I also don't carry a speedometer or computer because the weight would slow me down.:p

My Marcelo is like an amazing steamroller at speed, slams through road bumps without blinking, but over the course of 4 hours at 18mph my butt hurts.

The Duende is near perfect in every regard (stiff front end, sinuous and softer rear end), but nobody needs two of the same bike.

[Climb01742]

My Marcelo is like an amazing steamroller at speed, slams through road bumps without blinking, but over the course of 4 hours at 18mph my butt hurts.

The Duende is near perfect in every regard (stiff front end, sinuous and softer rear end), but nobody needs two of the same bike.

3+ hours on my marcelo and yes, i'm a bit beaten-up too. maybe i really do need to try a duende.

[reggiebaseball]

3+ hours on my marcelo and yes, i'm a bit beaten-up too. maybe i really do need to try a duende.

yes it would be the perfect bike for you, I think I suggested it in your thread a few days ago, it is exactly what you are wanting.

regarding riding the Moots more - yes, I want to try riding in bad weather and crappy roads more on the Moots. It is a tiny bit bigger than my other bikes and feels like it's center of gravity is further back, which hurts me on standing climbs (the only type of climbing this little piggie does). BUT, I think it helps on loose gravel and in the rain,

as far as training to be faster, well the ship has sailed on that one folks. At my age and mindset I really don't care to go any faster - I like to take the same 60-70 mile loop ride every day, ambling along from designated checkpoint Apple Fritter 1, to lunch stop, to apple fritter 2.

If I am dutiful about riding 6 days per week I will drop from 100 kilos to a more palatable 92 by the time the grand Tours roll around, while still being able to eat total rubbish (that is, locally grown and produced, organic rubbish).

[fuzzalow]

Wasn't this the complaint about Dario just a few years ago? "Gee, it's just tig-welded steel. You should get a Co-Motion." FWIW, both Eric (ErgoTT) and I own Zanconatos. I sold my Pegoretti late last year, but I'd as likely as not add 56 Marcelo or Responsorium if one popped up in my area at a fair price -- they're lovely bikes.

As to other builders, sure, there are lots of other great builders in steel. Dario is one of them -- that's why I owned a Pegoretti for 8 years. But Mike's bikes are very, very, very good. I don't think that has much to do with the "cool kids' lunch table."

I don't know what you are referring to and what the complaint is about Dario from years ago. The context of what you quoted sounds to me like whinging about “too expensive versus what you get”. In other words, pointless and undebatable opinions about cost & value which is a sublimated class warfare argument. Substitute Dario with Rapha, Assos, Baum, etc. Same thing.

I'm OK with moving adrift from the OP's inquiry. This is all conversation about bikes and in good fun. But I'm less than OK with the specious position of proposing a “better” bike over one that was either never owned or not currently owned, and can't be compared with, at the present time. The fact that there is preference for a recent bike over one which is either a complete unknown or a memory (sold, as in "not good enough to keep", "didn't fit", "didn't like" etc.) is not much to go on.

The opportunism in plugging your favorite, fitting to the discussion or not, and with a fair point to make or not, is what triggered my comment. And to my perception, somewhat predictably and true to form, came the personal testimonies in support of the builder from the convinced. In doing this, the point was completely overlooked; I wasn't questioning about the builder, I was questioning your blind acceptance in claiming & proselytizing his position as a top builder. To a less jaundiced eye, it looks like the culture of cool moves the chosen to the head of the class.

This is not a knock on any builder – it is unfair to drawn them into this crossfire in order to make a point at their expense.

Anyway, that's just how I saw it and I'm jus' sayin'.

[Spin71]

my Marcelo is EOM 16.5
I think my Duende is Columbus, it is cold-drawn (rather than heat treated)

I definitely had a Spirit bike on my radar thanks!

Duende is Spirit

[rphetteplace]

Buy a Firefly.

[ergott]

But I'm less than OK with the specious position of proposing a “better” bike over one that was either never owned or not currently owned, and can't be compared with, at the present time.

I wasn't questioning about the builder, I was questioning your blind acceptance in claiming & proselytizing his position as a top builder. To a less jaundiced eye, it looks like the culture of cool moves the chosen to the head of the class.

Anyway, that's just how I saw it and I'm jus' sayin'.

Perhaps you should read beyond the thread title all the way into the first post. He's no outright asking for bikes that are better than a Peg. Lord knows that's a silly question. He's looking for variety and already has a Peg. He listed some features he would like for his next bike.

I posted an alternative builder that will easily meet his needs. Are there others? Of course. I don't have experience with them. I know first hand from my bike and riding with him as well as many conversations with him that Mike can do what the OP asked for.

Don't make that about your agenda. This thread was doing just fine without you and your "less jaundiced" eye. Instead, perhaps you can contribute an alternative that you had good experience with and can meet the OP's needs.

[fuzzalow]

Perhaps you should read beyond the thread title all the way into the first post. He's no outright asking for bikes that are better than a Peg.

I did read and comprehend his first post. An inquiry was made to the following:

Anyway, I wanted to hear from some of the people who own and LOVE their Pegoretti's- about what other bikes they may have, hopefully about some that they like even better.

Some of the folks that responded actually own Pegorettis. In the interest of making a more open discussion, I'd agree that not sticking so close to the wording of having to currently own a Peg could be given some free reign. And it just seemed to me that some took the opportunity to do just that and get in line and on message.

Don't make that about your agenda. This thread was doing just fine without you and your "less jaundiced" eye. Instead, perhaps you can contribute an alternative that you had good experience with and can meet the OP's needs.

I don't have an agenda other than a distaste for being corralled and brow beaten.

And I can equally opine that the thread was doing just fine with persons that actually met the circumstances that the OP asked about and gave an earnest reply. Your choice of reply was to me-too an earlier post about a particular builder - a response all the more relevant and credible because you don't own a Peg to compare to the builder you recommended. And IYO would be a better ride to a person who does currently own and ride a Peg. Huh? Maybe you can cut me some slack here 'cos I'm obviously missing what's goin' on.

[Joachim]

Maybe someone should suggest Vanilla or Speedvagen and everyone will be happy.Yes, I do own a Pegoretti.

[christian]

I don't know what you are referring to and what the complaint is about Dario from years ago. The context of what you quoted sounds to me like whinging about “too expensive versus what you get”. In other words, pointless and undebatable opinions about cost & value which is a sublimated class warfare argument. Substitute Dario with Rapha, Assos, Baum, etc. Same thing.You were making the point that a Zanc is somehow not the best choice because it is the "cool" choice, rather than a choice based on your arbitrary measures of quality. My point was, the same criticisms that you're making of Zanconatos -- that they're somehow the "flavor of the moment" is exactly the criticism Dario's bikes got 3 years ago.

I'm OK with moving adrift from the OP's inquiry. This is all conversation about bikes and in good fun. But I'm less than OK with the specious position of proposing a “better” bike over one that was either never owned or not currently owned, and can't be compared with, at the present time. The fact that there is preference for a recent bike over one which is either a complete unknown or a memory (sold, as in "not good enough to keep", "didn't fit", "didn't like" etc.) is not much to go on.

The opportunism in plugging your favorite, fitting to the discussion or not, and with a fair point to make or not, is what triggered my comment. And to my perception, somewhat predictably and true to form, came the personal testimonies in support of the builder from the convinced.

I'm sorry, but that's just bollocks. I'm not comparing a "complete unknown" or a "memory."

Reggie asked about bikes others had that they liked better than their Pegorettis. I owned a Pegoretti and a Zanc concurrently. I happened to own the Pegoretti for 8 years, buying it before most people had ever heard of Dario Pegoretti. I like the Zanc better. I think that meets the OP's criteria, even if it doesn't meet whatever ones you're making up.

[christian]

Maybe someone should suggest Vanilla or Speedvagen and everyone will be happy.Yes, I do own a Pegoretti.
My wife owned a custom Vanilla. She strongly preferred her 1983 Trek 620. (Dead serious - and yes, 1980s Reynold's-tubed Treks are very very good bikes.)

:)

(Thank god Reggie doesn't own a Vanilla and asked for opinions. Can you imagine Fuzzalow's reaction? Oy.)

[spaced_ghost]

the Flavor of the Month builder phenomenon definitely happens. it happens on all forums, for guitar, bikes, you name it. Zanc strikes me more as a solid builder and honest guy doing his thing that makes great bikes. Also, everyone always harps on "buy a bike from guys with 20 years of experience, not the new guys with a couple years." It's obviously true that a 20 yr builder is going to have more experience, tricks up his sleeve, trial and error know how, etc. but at some point that 20 yr veteran was a 1-yr noob builder and people had to, and did, take a chance on him. Otherwise he wouldn't be a reputable builder still in the game 20 yrs later.

[fuzzalow]

I'm sorry, but that's just bollocks. I'm not comparing a "complete unknown" or a "memory."

The "complete unknown" was the critique of ergott's reply. No worries christian, we can agree to disagree.

the Flavor of the Month builder phenomenon definitely happens. it happens on all forums, for guitar, bikes, you name it. Zanc strikes me more as a solid builder and honest guy doing his thing that makes great bikes. Also, everyone always harps on "buy a bike from guys with 20 years of experience, not the new guys with a couple years." It's obviously true that a 20 yr builder is going to have more experience, tricks up his sleeve, trial and error know how, etc. but at some point that 20 yr veteran was a 1-yr noob builder and people had to, and did, take a chance on him. Otherwise he wouldn't be a reputable builder still in the game 20 yrs later.

I don't favor the veteran builders simply because they have been around for 20 years. I favor Vanillas too, that's sticking your neck out with a controversial position, eh? What I alluded to about some of the veterans being under appreciated is that many of them do not create the hype or buzz that some of the newer builders are more aware of and receptive to. Many of those veterans abhor marketing. Such is the modern world and the unavoidable trappings and requirements of commerce and the young builders know it.

But for the veteran builders still building after all these years, hype didn't keep them afloat all these years. The same cannot be said for a recent (I.e < 10 years) builder and for many new builders, hype and NAHBS show bikes (if they could afford to go) are the big drivers to get viable. No harm in that, everybody has to start somewhere and you play your best angle.

Everybody has a favorite. The risk in overhyping a builder without the years experience, body of work as evidence or something reasonably tangible is that it just sounds like a fan hyping their favorite. Especially when the accolade is an amorphous quality of cool culture ambiguity in words like "ethos".

[christian]

Everybody has a favorite. The risk in overhyping a builder without the years experience, body of work as evidence or something reasonably tangible is that it just sounds like a fan hyping their favorite.Your sophistry is astounding. I wonder how many fancy paint jobs and misplaced brake bridges it takes to establish a "body of work" which impresses you.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Get a Curtlo. It is the best bike I have ever ridden!

[reggiebaseball]

thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Because the Pegoretti's suit me so well, in geometry, in visual "style" and in road feel, while they are also my first serious steel bikes,

It sometimes makes me wonder, did I just luck out and start out at the mountain top?
Or are there other bikes out there that would be magic for me too.

As others have said I also sometimes struggle with the issue of whether part of the "magic" is that my bikes were Darios 36,000th frame made, and you just get better with repetition.

I think Mr. Zanc and Curtlo would fall into this category too. I know from experience that even something simple like cooking capellini - I am just better making it for the 100th time than the 2nd. I envision someone like Dario or Curtlo has a huge pile of metal tubes and could literally grab one to build up a bike and just be like "this one feels off," whereas I or a less experienced builder might never know.

Other times I try to spy out "new" and emerging builders- people who have made only 15 frames, but clearly spend 4X the time on each one because they are perfectionists establishing their craft. I see them and think - this guy is a talent and one day will be a star, maybe I want a bike from him now. Maybe because they haven't done it 30,000 times, somehow my bike is that little bit more special to them when then make it. BUT - maybe I Want to tell this newer builder my specific geometry needs, not have him look at me and measure my fist with a book like Dario.

And, of course, as others mentioned, there are different means of construction than TIG, and different tubesets to explore.

Sometimes I try to get second or fifth hand frames from builders I want to try (like I am watching for a Kirk), but then am I really getting the best impression of a custom builders work by getting a bike made for another person? Close, but probably not exact. The good side is that if you shop carefully you could try 10 frames and resell them without loosing too much for your experimentation.

The good news is that if I can just hold off for a week or two without slapping down big bucks, then riding season will start and I can back-shelf my acquisition compulsion until winter.


Last season I decided to tradein my carbon bike (Look 595) and try metal. When I brought in my MArcelo to build up with my mechanic - I asked him how it rode and he said "it rides like a steel bike"
A few weeks later I had him build up a Duende , again I asked and again he replied "it rides like a steel bike".

So, I switched mechanics.
To my butt, the two bikes rode so differently, I was a little sick of paying this guy who clearly could not tell any difference or just had contempt for me.


But, because I still have only ridden maybe 5-6 bikes that were set up perfectly for my contact points, with my campy shifting, etc. I have too limited a set with too many variable to understand perfectly what it is I like and what it is I don't (for example, carbon was not lively enough for me, but the 405mm chainstays and 73 degree seat also didnt help), my Pegs have slacker seat angles and 410 chainstays and feel just right. My Moots has 72.5 seat and 415mm chainstays and it feels too "long" even though it has the same wheelbase as my Marcelo- like when I need to stand up to climb hills, I have to throw my shoulders way forward to find my balance point, while on the Pegs I can stand straight up and be in balance.

This is phase two of my "buying custom" dilemma - do I find an old soul like Kirk or Curtlo and say "here are the monkeys measurements, build it a bicycle", or a young gun and say "I want a 585TT (with 140 stem), 72 seat tube" and basically have him or her re-create a Pegoretti in another metal.


Another option I am thinking about is maybe I like "Italian racing geometry" and therefore try another Italian master, maybe a carbon Colnago, or a steel DeRosa....

Also, I will say that in my experience I have had several "oh yeah" moments, where I tried stuff and I knew that it was NOT substitutable. So when I got my campy 11 stuff last year, I just knew I would never ride a Shimano or SRAM bike again- there was no need to "try" alternate methods any more, Campy shifting just had "it" for me- something emotional beyond the physical that appealed. I Love my Handlebra like this, and Lightweight wheels and Nemesis wheels, and Veloflex tubulars like this- something about these products makes them "the best in the world for me" and I don't need to experiment more (right now). Maybe I have already hit that point with Pegoretti frames and I should just stop looking...

What I am looking for is the "wheeeeeeeeeeee!" - this is the squealing sound I make, like a giant pig, every time I fly downhill smiling on my Pegs. My Look 595 didn't make me squeal (so it went bye bye), and the Moots doesn't very often. I have a $400 AL Orbea with carbon rear frame that does make me squeal with pleasure - so I know it is not purely material dependent, it must have something to do with geometry.

[christian]

or a young gun and say "I want a 585TT (with 140 stem), 72 seat tube" and basically have him or her re-create a Pegoretti in another metal.Don't do this. You should go to a bicycle builder, not a metal fabricator.

Frankly, your size, I'd get in line for a Kirk. He's a big bloke, an amazing builder, and has brazed more frames than anyone I can think of. Don't see how you could go wrong after a conversation with Dave.

[bluesea]

Neither Colnago nor Derosa will be as stiff as your Duende, which is something you should probably explore. With the Master xl you will learn whether you are compatible with a slack frontend--many riders are not.

[ergott]

The "complete unknown" was the critique of ergott's reply.

You are right. Only people that own a Pegoretti and also know of a bike that is better can post here.:confused:

Reggie is looking for a fat tire, fender bike from someone that builds with big boy tubes. That's not exactly an Italian race frame. Please remind me which frame he should get.

I won't even dignify your "inner clique" vibe because it's uncalled for and ignorant at best.

[reggiebaseball]

Don't do this. You should go to a bicycle builder, not a metal fabricator.

Frankly, your size, I'd get in line for a Kirk. He's a big bloke, an amazing builder, and has brazed more frames than anyone I can think of. Don't see how you could go wrong after a conversation with Dave.

This is an excellent point.
In fact, I have leaned towards soliciting builders who are closer to my height (6'4), which includes Kirk, because I think that bicycle design probably works different for us than for someone who is 5'6-- I feel it would be easier for Dave Kirk to test ride my bike once built, for example. And I am sure as a big guy himself he knows what works.

'Whereas having someone copy my Peg in a different metal, seems more likely to result in a bike that has potential downside (doesn't ride as well) with limited upside (could be just as nice, but doubtful it would excel)


I am also thinking of picking up a Colnago carbon C50 or C59, to see if perhaps the Look didn't do it for me more because of geo than material.

I think for the record I like a bike that is stiff up front, but forgiving of "speedbump" type bumps in the back. The Look 595 satisfied both criteria quite well- I just didn't feel balanced on it fore-aft. Perhaps the colnago would be a good fit.

[ergott]

Kirk has been building bike like you describe for a long time. I don't have one, but that doesn't mean I don't want one. He's another super talented guy that is a pleasure to correspond with.

[Wayne77]

I don't have an agenda other than a distaste for being corralled and brow beaten.
Your "agenda" came through loud and clear in your first post. It had nothing to do with the spirit of good, friendly discussion, or the OP's 'criteria' as you so strictly lay out for the benefit of others...and contributed nothing to the thread.



I'm obviously missing what's goin' on.
Yes. You are missing what's going on. A routine "gimme some bike suggestions thread" went South not when others contributed about specific bikes they like, but when you posted your sour grapes tripe about inner circle clubs and being "cultivated". Thank you thread police.

[Climb01742]

He's another super talented guy that is a pleasure to correspond with.

So true. A phone call with Dave will answer many questions.

[1/2 Wheeler]

The Paceline = The Girl's club

Jus sayin!

[Ryun]

Don't do this. You should go to a bicycle builder, not a metal fabricator.

Frankly, your size, I'd get in line for a Kirk. He's a big bloke, an amazing builder, and has brazed more frames than anyone I can think of. Don't see how you could go wrong after a conversation with Dave.

This is great advice. I have own pegs, a zank and most other builders. I like Mike Zs work a lot esp with the max type bikes with lugs. Given your size Kirk might be a better option.
If you go with tig UOS, I think a Hampsten or CPG would be my choices. Again I owned these.

Also agree with tell them how you want the bicycle to ride and the required body measurements and let them have at it. The best custom bikes I have had made came out of organic conversations with the builder and with me letting go of my OCD with particular measurements.

[Anarchist]

The Paceline = The Girl's club

Jus sayin!

^this.

[beeatnik]

Hahaha.

Bikes, as easy as aerospace engineering!

[WickedWheels]

PM sent


Wasn't this the complaint about Dario just a few years ago? "Gee, it's just tig-welded steel. You should get a Co-Motion." FWIW, both Eric (ErgoTT) and I own Zanconatos. I sold my Pegoretti late last year, but I'd as likely as not add 56 Marcelo or Responsorium if one popped up in my area at a fair price -- they're lovely bikes.

As to other builders, sure, there are lots of other great builders in steel. Dario is one of them -- that's why I owned a Pegoretti for 8 years. But Mike's bikes are very, very, very good. I don't think that has much to do with the "cool kids' lunch table."

To me, it's mostly about getting a bike that speaks directly to the ethos of the builder. If I were getting a lugged cx bike, it'd be a Zanconato no questions. If I were getting a 29mm tubular-shod road/D2R2 bike, Hampsten, Zanconato, Foresta, or Winter would probably get the nod. For a straight-on road bike, I'd probably go with Dario or Zullo, Roland Della Santa or maybe Hampsten again. All that speaks to, in my mind, is the incredible wealth of talented builders we have access to now.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm a big fan of Gunnar (and a dealer). Well priced, a few tubing and fork choices and numerous stock geometries. If you want custom take a look at their "rich sister" Waterford.
At the higher prices check out Kelly Bedford for custom TIG or lugged.
Tis a shame Serotta stopped using steel.

What he said and Mark Nobilette for a fillet brazed frame. IMHO, he's one of the very best at this method.

BTW-I know you know this, but a custom Gunnar is a great choice as well. US made custom, nice steel at $1250 for the frame is hard to beat.

[uber]

I ride a Big Leg Emma and I'm lucky enough to have a Spectrum Ti and a Speedvagen. All are great. None ride better than the Peg.

[reggiebaseball]

This is great advice. I have own pegs, a zank and most other builders. I like Mike Zs work a lot esp with the max type bikes with lugs. Given your size Kirk might be a better option.
If you go with tig UOS, I think a Hampsten or CPG would be my choices. Again I owned these.


Thanks for the thoughts, who is CPG?


If I do get in line for a next, next frame, I think it will be a Kirk or a Hampsten. In the meantime I would like to get a used sample of both and a 1983 Trek 620, play with them all.

[pdmtong]

Thanks for the thoughts, who is CPG?


If I do get in line for a next, next frame, I think it will be a Kirk or a Hampsten. In the meantime I would like to get a used sample of both and a 1983 Trek 620, play with them all.

goodrich

[pdmtong]

Don't do this. You should go to a bicycle builder, not a metal fabricator.


exactly
the whole is the sum of the builder the fitter the tube types the tube sizes the angle the geo the paint. replication? no such thing.

this point was made on the serotta blog. you could have 4 bikes each apparently identical but somehow they all ride different. its how the builder can tailor the ride to you that matters.

[reggiebaseball]

goodrich

GREAT call!

I had to PM SamIAM when I saw this bike:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=124952

AWESOME! It is rare to see a hugely big silverback ape sized bike like this with a level TT (which I prefer) that looks so in proportion.
That bike really impressed me, and SamIAm told me he had it built to be stiffy up top and forgiving in the back - which happens to be my cup of tea.

The only thing holding me back is that due to my age, I have no affinity for lugs really---
AND
When I found one lugged style bike I did love last year, I promptly got on a wait list for that build.

But, I really hope SamIAm has a garage sale, as he has several bikes I would like.

[Joachim]

Dave Kirk is awesome (are you reading this Dave?). We discussing colors I found out he is not fond of Easter egg colors (lavender+yellow+white) for a JKS. That and we agree so far on all things that makes a great bike (do I get bumped a few spots for saying this?).

[reggiebaseball]

Dave Kirk is awesome (are you reading this Dave?). We discussing colors I found out he is not fond of Easter egg colors (lavender+yellow+white) for a JKS. That and we agree so far on all things that makes a great bike (do I get bumped a few spots for saying this?).

I email him once every 6 months inquiring if I can buy his personal JKS X, which is his/my size.

Easter egg colors should be done in an eggshell matte and not gloss. Get on board Dave.

[dekindy]

goodrich

Am I the only one that cringes when someone recommends him?

[Russity]

Carl Strong makes the best steel bikes. Maybe not lugged or fillet, but certainly the best. And such a gentleman to deal with. Had one of his steel bikes for the last eight years and still rides beautifully.

Maybe take a squizz at Vendetta Cycles:

http://www.vendettacycles.com/vendettacycles/default.htm

I've always thought their bikes are beautifully put together and a bit different.

Maybe a bit left of centre but Chas Roberts has been making fillet bike for donkeys years and I just took delivery of my fourth bike from him. Again, beautifully done. He's a bit hard to get hold of and correspondence is a sometimes lacking, but the final result is worth it.

http://www.robertscycles.com/contacts.html

[sparky33]

Am I the only one that cringes when someone recommends him?

Nope

[pdmtong]

Am I the only one that cringes when someone recommends him?

I was just answering the post, not making an endorsement.

I have no personal experience but from what I can read, the risk far exceeds the reward.

Since there are plenty of other great builders, I see no reason to roll some dice on money I cannot afford to lose. .

[texbike]

I have an older Peg Custom Team with a factory steel fork. I have bikes that ride great and ride as well, but I'm not sure that I have anything that really rides better.

Since you like your Pegs so much but would like something a little different, why not consider a Luigino? It would have the same geo but with lugs and a steel fork and a bit different gestalt. I hope to pick up an earlier one (with dual plate fork) at some point and build it with classic, 80s era Super Record parts.

Texbike

[bfd]

Am I the only one that cringes when someone recommends him?

Well if Goodrich doesn't make you cringe, I could say Paul Taylor and let's see who cringes more....:eek::mad::no::butt::help:

[bluesea]

Kirk Pacenti has a cool steel frame he's building for a great price--I wouldn't not put it on my own list, but I keep forgetting it exists. SamIAm has one. :cool:

[bigbill]

I've got a Big Leg Emma that I bought from SoCalSteve about six years ago. It's been all over the world and always a great companion on long days in the saddle. We moved last year after I retired from the Navy and just in case the house sold while I was deployed, I took Emma apart and boxed up the parts. I also have a custom Argonaut steel that is Max/Spirit with a Max straight blade fork (and it's not too stiff). I packed that bike in my travel case since it fits better than Emma. Now we're settled in our new home in Texas but I'm putting off building up Emma because it needs paint. I've also bought two Nobilette GT's, I've been doing some rides on the US Team one and the Shaklee one is at Southwest Frameworks getting a new steel fork and paint. The GT's are great bikes but I wouldn't want to spend more than a couple of hours on one, so stiff.

[fuzzalow]

I missed this as you had edited your original post after I responded to it the 1st time. I don't believe it is necessary to pursue this topic further as I stand by what I posted earlier.

I am, however, responding to your quote here because you edited it in, you do not speak for what I wrote and your summary is grossly incorrect.

You were making the point that a Zanc is somehow not the best choice because it is the "cool" choice, rather than a choice based on your arbitrary measures of quality. My point was, the same criticisms that you're making of Zanconatos -- that they're somehow the "flavor of the moment" is exactly the criticism Dario's bikes got 3 years ago.



No. You are incorrect. I could not care less as to whether or not a Zanc conforms to any sophomoric ideal as to "cool". I view Zanc as I would any bike from a competent builder.


Posturing Zanc with Dario in equating them together because they have both had identical "criticisms" levied at them is ludicrous


In my opinion your, and others, enthusiasm for this builder panders to a heavy-handed advocacy that reeks of hype.

I'd love to have Mike build me a MAX-tubed, 29mm tubular-fitting, short-reach-brake-having road bike. I can only imagine how good that would be.

Mike Zanconato. Lugs or tig, the guy is boss. He builds with Max and will get it right.


That you choose to influence and shape opinion towards this builder is entirely your concern. It is disingenuous to cry foul and ad hominem when you receive pushback from giving the hard sell.

[akelman]

Eh, forget it.

[WickedWheels]

As far as Zanconato's go...

I don't own one and have never ridden one. I used to race with Mike in college and haven't really talked to him since. I do know, however, that he understands steel bikes like no one that I've met so far. I would imagine that few people out there "get it" like he does. The stuff that he used to get excited about 15 years ago, when he was barely old enough to buy a beer, is the stuff that I'm starting to appreciate only recently, after nearly 2 decades in the bicycle industry. If he has learned about his craft and his field as much as I have about mine over that time, starting at the level that he was at, then you can't go wrong with his stuff. From what I remember he had an engineering background, studied metallurgy in his spare time and was generally a smart, stand up guy.

Now I own a bike shop and if he was selling through stores rather than direct I would put my money where my mouth is and stock his stuff. The reason I don't have one now is because I need to ride what I sell.

[93legendti]

http://www.richardsachs.com/site/the-next-wave/

"I think the future is bright for all involved in wanting or needing to be patrons of such craftsmen as well as for the craftsmen themselves. As a result of information sharing online at such resources as the framebuilders’ salon as well as from some of the recent NAHBS events, the following framebuilders have landed on my radar and I think of them as the NEXT WAVE.

Those listed are representative of a cross-section of people who respect the history of the craft and are taking it to new levels. The implication is not that they may leave a mark some day; these folks are working full time now and are making some of the best frames available. They deserve your consideration.

Zanconato Custom Cycles..."

[reggiebaseball]

I was just answering the post, not making an endorsement.

I have no personal experience but from what I can read, the risk far exceeds the reward.

Since there are plenty of other great builders, I see no reason to roll some dice on money I cannot afford to lose. .

thanks for being a pal. You wouldn't risk your hard earned money, but you will let me?:eek:

[pdmtong]

thanks for being a pal. You wouldn't risk your hard earned money, but you will let me?:eek:

Someone else made the CPG recommendation, not me.

I just identified the builder initials for you.

Clearly SamIAm has had multiple nice experiences. You can do some forum search and draw your own conclusions. I have. YMMV

[reggiebaseball]

I'm just messing with you.

[ergott]

you receive pushback from giving the hard sell.

Go f**k yourself. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. This isn't remotely true. Mike is a friend that builds excellent bikes and I'm not even close to the only one that agrees.

PS - Never once did I say he was better than Mr. Pegoretti. Calling one builder better than the other at the level those guys work on is for idiots and I know this this thread wasn't intended to be a d**k measuring contest, just a discussion of some builders that would build the type of bike he's looking for.

[fuzzalow]

Go f**k yourself. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. This isn't remotely true. Mike is a friend that builds excellent bikes and I'm not even close to the only one that agrees.

PS - Never once did I say he was better than Mr. Pegoretti. Calling one builder better than the other at the level those guys work on is for idiots and I know this this thread wasn't intended to be a d**k measuring contest, just a discussion of some builders that would build the type of bike he's looking for.

Well done. Well done. Bravo.

And I did not ever once say or infer any sort of greater than or less than qualitative comparison between these 2 builders. What are you reading? How does one get wound up in a discussion like this to blow off this kind of post?

I am still talking about bikes, all through this thread. Some of you are speaking to the cult of personality or something completely different. That is not my issue to resolve.

[fuzzalow]

Like a moth to flame. In my head I hear some wildlife guy with a exaggerated Australian accent saying "dyaahnggah".

CPG Double OS Race (http://i45.tinypic.com/2rdhs7o.jpg)

[christian]

Posturing Zanc with Dario in equating them together ... is ludicrous

And I did not ever once say or infer any sort of greater than or less than qualitative comparison between these 2 builders.Again, your sophistry is amazing.

And your apparent recommendation that Reggie get an wholly unequaled fat-tire fender-biker Pegoretti isn't much use, since Dario wouldn't build it if asked.

Sorry Reggie, I'm out. But for a fender bike, I'd start looking at top American builders. That list, for me, would include Hampsten, Kirk, Zanconato, Lighthouse, Kvale, Gordon, Winter, Foresta, with different preferences based on my own geography, aesthetic preferences, and joinery techniques.

[fuzzalow]

Again, your sophistry is amazing.

C'mon. If you are going to quote my retort, at least have the integrity to run the sentence in it's entirety. This sentence wasn't a comparison of 2 builders, as you had edited to falsely convey.


Posturing Zanc with Dario in equating them together because they have both had identical "criticisms" levied at them is ludicrous

The above, as originally written, was a rebuttal to what you wrote. Then you edited it for yourself to have something to retaliate to. So now add weak and lame to ludicrous.

And your apparent recommendation that Reggie get an wholly unequaled fat-tire fender-biker Pegoretti isn't much use, since Dario wouldn't build it if asked.

What are you reading and where did you get this? I did not write this. You should get your facts straight before posting because it has gotten to the point where you are so wrapped up around the axle on this you don't know who said what.

BTW. What's on second. Who's on first.

[93legendti]

Viper 3.0?

[Joachim]

Swoop...

[93legendti]

Swoop...

Well played...:)

[rugbysecondrow]

Sometimes I try to get second or fifth hand frames from builders I want to try (like I am watching for a Kirk), but then am I really getting the best impression of a custom builders work by getting a bike made for another person? Close, but probably not exact. The good side is that if you shop carefully you could try 10 frames and resell them without loosing too much for your experimentation..

My answer, no, I don't think you are. I bought a used Kirk via this method once. It was 4th hand when I got it, and has changed hands about 2-3 other times since. Nothing funky about the geometry, but something just didn't feel right and apparently others felt it too. From the first ride I just did not like the bike. Is this Kirk's fault, I wouldn't say that. I would say that it was custom for one person and there was a detail involved which likely worked well for him and not for us. I now have 2 custom Bedfords which are great bikes for me, but if I sold them they might not ride as well for others because they are built for a 225# rider and my expectations.

Best of luck with your journey...sounds like fun!

[rugbysecondrow]

Reggie is looking for a fat tire, fender bike from someone that builds with big boy tubes. That's not exactly an Italian race frame. Please remind me which frame he should get.

.

If this is what he is looking for, I submit this. As a big boy myself, I can say it is a great bike. Also, Kelly is a big guy too so he gets it.

Best of luck on your journey Reggie.

Here is a link to my Bedford which sounds very similar.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=86754&highlight=bedford

It is a great bike!

http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp217/phpeter/Bedford%20Sport%20Tourer/IMG_1832.jpg

[christian]

Hey Paul, you know what's wrong with that bike?




Abso-freakin'-lutely-tootely-nothing. It's amazing. You should be thrilled to own it, as I am sure you are.

[Lionel]

You have two TIG Peg. This is a pretty damn good start. I am not sure it can get "better". But it can be "different" if you go for a lugged frame. And yes Mike Z can built you a very nice one. A few others as well that have already been mentioned here.

I remember a chat I had with Mike when he was building my frame/fork and IIRC he mentioned that if he had to pay for a frame that was not his own he would buy a Pegoretti....

[rugbysecondrow]

Hey Paul, you know what's wrong with that bike?




Abso-freakin'-lutely-tootely-nothing. It's amazing. You should be thrilled to own it, as I am sure you are.

Thanks Christian, I am a lucky guy. Rarely do I get to make a plug for it and twice in one day...Spring is here!

He is not the only option, but certainly folks should look in Bedford's direction as an option for a steel bike. His experience, breadth of work and satisfied customer base speaks for itself.

Enjoy Reggie!

[William]

Everyone has a favorite.

Don't take this as criticism of anyone's choice or in any way critical of Mike Zanc, but there are builders that somehow work their way into the accepted inner circle club. No doubt pushed along by the culture of cool. Mantra. Repeat. IMO a reply of Zanc is credible only if right now there is one in your stable beside a Pegoretti. Otherwise you have been cultivated. Mantra. Repeat.

And there are builders out there that have just as stellar a reputation, burnished by the credibility of decades rather than years that go under appreciated.

My other bikes besides the Marcelo are excellent bikes and different, not better. A well fitted Pegoretti is indeed very, very hard to beat.


Agreed. There are many fine builders out there who could build a great bike for the OP, no question about it.

That said, I'm not sure what all the angst is about Zanc is in this thread. Mike is indeed a talented builder who could certainly build what the OP is looking for. To date my Zanc is the best bike I've had since I started riding. Being someone who lives on the far side of the bell curve (and out weighs the OP by about 30 to 40 pounds) I've tried to fit many a bike and there always seemed to be some issue with handling or fit. Mike nailed this one. On or off-road it excels for me and my riding style. Mike is also one of the nicest guys to work with. He is very knowledgeable and has absolutely no ego at all. If there is any aura of "cool" around him I would say that has more to do with certain fan clubs than it does about Mike himself.

There was a time that he participated more here and he always came across as a straight up guy. I guess some folks have either forgotten that or weren't here to experience it.

Back to the point: I can't compare to a Peg, but like many other builders, they are capable of building you just what you want.







William

[fuzzalow]

That said, I'm not sure what all the angst is about Zanc is in this thread.

I snipped away most of your post not to twist your meaning but to address the core sentiment of what you wrote.

I do not have any issue with Zanc.

Repeat - I do not have any issue with Zanc.

He is one of many builders that is capable of designing, building and delivering a fine bicycle.

Please do not conflate my point of contention with certain forum members over the course of this thread as in any way related to ZANC THE BUILDER. He is an innocent bystander.

My issue is with opinions and actions of certain forum members. In that area, we disagree.

I appreciate your even handed response to conflicting points of view in this thread. I regret if anyone reading this thread experienced angst but I do not have regret or take back anything I wrote. That's all for me on this one.

[SamIAm]

Am I the only one that cringes when someone recommends him?

You and others are missing it. Curt is building. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35685161@N00/

He had a rough patch and nobody and I mean nobody was more critical than me, but he is not that guy anymore. I who have more skin in the game than anyone have moved on and it feels good. I'm rooting for the guy because he has walked through that valley and is once again climbing. He is in a good place and I am happy for him. You guys should be too.

I sold the spot after my red bike pictured earlier in this thread to a fellow forum member a month ago. There was the usual snarky comments about risking your hard earned money etc. His bike is the blue bike in the above link to Curt's Flickr site.

I continue to pound the table and say that nobody does better work than Curt, period.

I will further put my money where my mouth is and guarantee any future deposits on a Goodrich frame.

[rugbysecondrow]

Glad to hear. Stories of redemption are some of the best.

Cheers.

Paul

You and others are missing it. Curt is building. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35685161@N00/

He had a rough patch and nobody and I mean nobody was more critical than me, but he is not that guy anymore. I who have more skin in the game than anyone have moved on and it feels good. I'm rooting for the guy because he has walked through that valley and is once again climbing. He is in a good place and I am happy for him. You guys should be too.

I sold the spot after my red bike pictured earlier in this thread to a fellow forum member a month ago. There was the usual snarky comments about risking your hard earned money etc. His bike is the blue bike in the above link to Curt's Flickr site.

I continue to pound the table and say that nobody does better work than Curt, period.

I will further put my money where my mouth is and guarantee any future deposits on a Goodrich frame.

[reggiebaseball]

I Think I should buy this IF club racer:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1322679#post1322679

[jblande]

You and others are missing it. Curt is building. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35685161@N00/

...

I continue to pound the table and say that nobody does better work than Curt, period.

I will further put my money where my mouth is and guarantee any future deposits on a Goodrich frame.

I bought a CG frame from SamIAm, and it is the perfect bike for me.I choose it on a regular basis over my other bikes. In fact, I like it so much I would like to sell my old Peg Marcelo and get another Goodrich frame.

[bluesea]

You and others are missing it. Curt is building. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35685161@N00/


...I will further put my money where my mouth is and guarantee any future deposits on a Goodrich frame.



That's a beautiful blue. Thanks for your efforts.

[Kirk007]

So many good choices. I have a Marcelo and love it. I have two Kirks and love them. All three ride slightly differently.

Dave is great, and is a tall guy who knows how to build a bike for rough roads. For instance, he wanted a 13 cm stem on my bike to ensure it had enough weight on the front end for rough roads. This shortened the top tube compared to many stock frames my size. A less experienced builder might have spec'd something differently. Indeed a Serotta fitter spec'd something much different; numbers that Dave tossed.

I'm sure others can and do build equally amazing frames. The Goodrich posted by Rob is gorgeous, and his offer to guarantee a deposit is amazingly generous. This isn't the first time he's gone out on a limb for Kurt. Douglas Brooks has also raved about Curt's work. Those are some fine endorsements.

The Hampsten folks get rave reviews for almost everything that comes out of Hampsten towers. Steve was one of the first to start using MAX tubes again as I recall, and the Strada Bianche was one of the first dirt road bikes marketed by the small custom builders, and seem universally loved.

And then there's folks who for some reason seem to fly a bit under the radar. Tom Kellogg - who wouldn't want to go to the barf for a fitting and get a custom bike built by Tom.

I'd say call and talk to some of these folks. Tell them what you want and trust your gut. Most of all enjoy the experience. Very difficult to go wrong with the builders being suggested in this thread.

[2dogs59]

I have a Marcelo . Great ride.
I also have a Zullo Inqubo . Another awesome bike ! Powerful and fast.
Zullo has great service, custom builds . You won't be dissapointed . Go to their web site.( his stock dimensions are the same as pegoretti. They know each other as friends )

[jr59]

You and others are missing it. Curt is building. http://www.flickr.com/photos/35685161@N00/

He had a rough patch and nobody and I mean nobody was more critical than me, but he is not that guy anymore. I who have more skin in the game than anyone have moved on and it feels good. I'm rooting for the guy because he has walked through that valley and is once again climbing. He is in a good place and I am happy for him. You guys should be too.

I sold the spot after my red bike pictured earlier in this thread to a fellow forum member a month ago. There was the usual snarky comments about risking your hard earned money etc. His bike is the blue bike in the above link to Curt's Flickr site.

I continue to pound the table and say that nobody does better work than Curt, period.

I will further put my money where my mouth is and guarantee any future deposits on a Goodrich frame.


Good for you Rob! And Curt for that matter.

You could also include Dave Wages in that group of big riders/builders!

BTW; about that bike clearing sale.......