Suntour Superbe wheelset?

[Freddy Merckx]

So I was recently gifted a "crappy glue on" wheel set from an older fellow I know. They are Suntour Superbe hubs (front solid axle, rear QR), double butted spokes (stamped "H"), and Mavic Monthlery Route tubular hoops.

They looked terrible, the rear axle was broken, and had two dry old tires on them. After a little cleaning and swapping out the old rusty nipples on the front it turned out pretty clean and true. Front weighed ~760g so fairly light for being old.

Does anyone know what time period I'm looking at? Superbe road hubs nice? I only know of SSP track stuff. Trying to decide what to do with them...

thanks!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8249/8602259678_428279ae94.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8263/8602259582_d917bcaa76.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8253/8601160287_f165854f9b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8545/8601160329_bcb166e3fb.jpg

[jtakeda]

theyre nice. Don't know what gen that is though, sorry!

[pcb]

These are 2nd-gen, '83ish Superbe hubs. Materials/innards same as 1st-gen, but logo/decal is vertical/wraparound hub center i/o horizontal. This was changed after the Spb Pro hubs were introduced. I think the Spb Pro hubs greatly outsold these Spb hubs, so the Spb hubs are much less common.

The front hub was likely originally a road hub, somebody swapped out the qr axle for a track axle. The Spb track hubs didn't have the logo/decal change, and about all that were released were large flange.

[Grant McLean]

These are 2nd-gen, '83ish Superbe hubs.

I think the Spb Pro hubs greatly outsold these Spb hubs, so the Spb hubs are much less common.


That's right. The '82 catalog stills shows the 1st gen with the oil clip, and the
'83 has the new sticker around the center.

By '85 there were only Superbe derailleurs, as the Cyclone group had been
introduced that sort of filled the spot the standard superbe had held, now that
Superbe Pro had become very popular.

http://cyclespeugeot.web.fc2.com/catalog/suntour82/save0135.jpg

http://cyclespeugeot.web.fc2.com/catalog/suntour83/1983suntour0013l.jpg

[Freddy Merckx]

wow awesome :banana:. Thanks for the info guys! Are the hoops decent?

[ctcyclistbob]

These are 2nd-gen, '83ish Superbe hubs. Materials/innards same as 1st-gen, but logo/decal is vertical/wraparound hub center i/o horizontal. This was changed after the Spb Pro hubs were introduced. I think the Spb Pro hubs greatly outsold these Spb hubs, so the Spb hubs are much less common.

The front hub was likely originally a road hub, somebody swapped out the qr axle for a track axle. The Spb track hubs didn't have the logo/decal change, and about all that were released were large flange.

That's right. The '82 catalog stills shows the 1st gen with the oil clip, and the '83 has the new sticker around the center.

By '85 there were only Superbe derailleurs, as the Cyclone group had been
introduced that sort of filled the spot the standard Superbe had held, now that Superbe Pro had become very popular.


That's some great info, with precise timelines (more so than below, but)...a good resource for these kinds of questions is:
www.velobase.com

Superbe hubs:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=F93775A4-BFB2-4DFC-9C74-A6E6CA285012&Enum=110&AbsPos=8

[Grant McLean]

I guess the other thing I forgot to add is that SunTour didn't actually make
the hubs, they were actually from Sanshin Matsumoto Works, otherwise
known as Sunshine, who manufactured the hubs to SunTour's specification
back then. The Superbe hubs were a variation on the "Pro-Am" model.

All the members of the trade association that SunTour belonged to back then
didn't compete with each other by making parts in the same category, so
Dia Compe manufactured SunTour brakes, Sugino made the cranks, and
HKK made the chains.

Frank Berto's "Sunset for SunTour" is another good read.
http://pages.citebite.com/o2n1u6u4w3qui

-g

[pcb]

The parts group was called JEX, there were a few JEX catalogs published. Mikashima (MKS) was the pedal subcontractor, the first-gen Spb pedals were better-finished versions of the MKS Unique Road pedal. Kusuki/Win did stems and handlebars, there was a Kusuki-mfr stem in the 1st-gen Spb group.

Sanshin was the hub subcontractor, but they never seemed to have as much non-SunTour, self-branded market presence as Yoshigai (Dia-Compe), Sugino and MKS. By the late '80s, Sanshin's president was the son of Maeda's (SunTour) chairman, J. Kawai. I don't know if that meant Maeda owned a sizable chunk of Sanshin, but it would be somewhat unusual to have a close relative running a subcontractor/competitor if there wasn't some shareholding involved.

And FWIW, the other JEX members did compete against SunTour for spec, at least to a limited degree. There was a gentlemen's agreement that if a bike mfr was spec'ing a SunTour group, other JEX members wouldn't try to poach spec, but it did happen. Somebody might spec a Cyclone drivetrain but use Dia-Compe brakes, for example. Usually the spec'er was trying to shave costs and didn't feel breaking up the group would hurt the bike in the marketplace.

And FWIW part 2, though Shimano was considerably larger than Maeda, they also used subcontractors. Suzue for hubs, SR (Sakae Ringyo) for cranks, Kyokuto (KKT) for pedals. Using subcontractors was a way to protect your own workers from market contractions, if sales slowed you'd cut back on subcontractor orders, putting the stress on the subcontractor to cut instead of on yourself.

[QUOTE=Grant McLean;1321477]I guess the other thing I forgot to add is that SunTour didn't actually make
the hubs, they were actually from Sanshin Matsumoto Works, otherwise
known as Sunshine, who manufactured the hubs to SunTour's specification
back then. The Superbe hubs were a variation on the "Pro-Am" model.

All the members of the trade association that SunTour belonged to back then
didn't compete with each other by making parts in the same category, so
Dia Compe manufactured SunTour brakes, Sugino made the cranks, and
HKK made the chains.

Frank Berto's "Sunset for SunTour" is another good read.
http://pages.citebite.com/o2n1u6u4w3qui

-g[/QUOTE