Builders in Stainless Steel

[jpw]

Are many builders using stainless steel? I'm looking for a list.

[dd74]

Cinelli is. You can custom order a stainless Columbus XCR frame from them. Nice thing about Cinelli is Columbus Steel owns Cinelli, so they must definitely know how to weld up their own steel.

[Toddtwenty2]

Anderson has been working with it for awhile now.

www.andersoncustombicycles.com

[EricEstlund]

Check.

[Fishbike]

Firefly
Ellis
Pegoretti

[Lionel]

you can add Carl Strong to the list

[JayBay]

Alchemy. Lots of builders seem to be using it these days.

[reggiebaseball]

which stainless you should ask as well.

KVA is American made but I think seamed
953 is seamed
Columbus XCR is seamless

different builders have a hankering for one or the other, several do more than one, but few do all three.

[jpw]

which stainless you should ask as well.

KVA is American made but I think seamed
953 is seamed
Columbus XCR is seamless

different builders have a hankering for one or the other, several do more than one, but few do all three.

interesting. thanks.

[Charles M]

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/charles/kbedfordfairwheel.jpg

Kelly Bedford...

[Fishbike]

Marschall out of Germany also builds in stainless

[ctcyclistbob]

Kelly Bedford...


That KB is stunning ...

[cfox]

Indy Fab SSR, regular (oversize) and extra oversize, both XCR

[jpw]

Indy Fab SSR, regular (oversize) and extra oversize, both XCR

http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/SSR_(Stainless_Steel_Road)/

"5-year warranty on materials" - I'm not inspired by this.

[oldpotatoe]

Are many builders using stainless steel? I'm looking for a list.

Waterford is. Mark Nobilette is also.

[Ahneida Ride]

Kelly Bedford is worth your consideration ..... (as so are other builders)

www.kbedfordcustoms.com

Kelly has worked in 953 and KVA.

KVA is nice .... It's on my bike.
I highly recommended KVA.

Lugged Stainless is a specialty.

[Ahneida Ride]

Also Dave Wages .... Ellis Cycles

Winner of numerous NAHBS awards.

[cfox]

http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/SSR_(Stainless_Steel_Road)/

"5-year warranty on materials" - I'm not inspired by this.

do other builders offer lifetime warranties on stainless? Firefly doesn't list any warranty info (that I've seen) at all, let alone 5 years. Stainless is a very specialized material; I wouldn't offer a lifetime warranty on tubes that are .4 of a mm thick either.

[rnhood]

They should offer a life time warranty or I wouldn't buy one.

Those stainless bikes on the Ellis Cycles site are wonderful. Just wonderful.

[Anarchist]

Sam Whittingham at Naked Designs.

[rphetteplace]

some dude named Dave Kirk I think.

[Tony T]

Firefly doesn't list any warranty info (that I've seen) at all, let alone 5 years.

I believe that they have a lifetime warranty for defects in craftsmanship and a five-year warranty for any material defects.

...but, contact them to confirm

[BumbleBeeDave]

some dude named Dave Kirk I think.

Who?

:p

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

Kelly Bedford...

. . . show off! :no:

I'm still waiting for this review on Pez!:banana:

BBD

[SPOKE]

I have one of the first stainless Bedfords (with Spirit stays....I think). It was displayed at NAHBS in Richmond VA a few years ago.

[Charles M]

The pez site is getting reworked... The pictures will be @ 50% larger, so I'm holding the good stuff for that.

The Site will be done in a week or 2 (give or take).

It wont be long after that...

[sante pollastri]

Zullo vergine http://road.cc/content/review/67755-zullo-vergine

[Vonruden]

The IF's are Hot

[cfox]

I believe that they have a lifetime warranty for defects in craftsmanship and a five-year warranty for any material defects.

...but, contact them to confirm

this is the same as IF's policy; lifetime on work, 5 years on material.

Serious question: Does any builder offer a lifetime warranty on materials for steel bikes? I question why that would be reasonable to expect. Steel (even stainless) can rust, and modern steel (esp. stainless) is incredibly thin and not very dent resistant.

[oldpotatoe]

this is the same as IF's policy; lifetime on work, 5 years on material.

Serious question: Does any builder offer a lifetime warranty on materials for steel bikes? I question why that would be reasonable to expect. Steel (even stainless) can rust, and modern steel (esp. stainless) is incredibly thin and not very dent resistant.

Well, some do for 'defects in manudfacturing', of the tube..Waterford does but if the tube is rusted thru..no warranty. If the frame breaks, it is warrantied to the original owner.

[dlui]

Cinelli is. You can custom order a stainless Columbus XCR frame from them. Nice thing about Cinelli is Columbus Steel owns Cinelli, so they must definitely know how to weld up their own steel.


can you provide contact info please? thinking of getting a quote, but Google search fails me

thanks

[dd74]

can you provide contact info please? thinking of getting a quote, but Google search fails me

thanks
PM'd you.

[sante pollastri]

Cinelli is. You can custom order a stainless Columbus XCR frame from them. Nice thing about Cinelli is Columbus Steel owns Cinelli, so they must definitely know how to weld up their own steel.

no,cinelli/columbus don't weld anything,they have a sub contractor,cicli barco http://www.ciclibarco.it/
you may have the same xcr for about half the price...

[Peter B]

Tiziano Zullo

Sarto

Pellizoli

[soulspinner]

this is the same as IF's policy; lifetime on work, 5 years on material.

Serious question: Does any builder offer a lifetime warranty on materials for steel bikes? I question why that would be reasonable to expect. Steel (even stainless) can rust, and modern steel (esp. stainless) is incredibly thin and not very dent resistant.

My Strong .4/.7/.4 Columbus(not stainless, which is stronger) has a lifetime warranty on frame. It has 31,500 miles on it. It does dent more easily than some but I must say thin or not it has taken a beating(hit a car, headtube moved enuff to crack the powdercoat, but its still rides perfectly) and I am going to refinish yet again.

[FlashUNC]

Soma's making some stainless filet frames this year.

[bikinchris]

http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/SSR_(Stainless_Steel_Road)/

"5-year warranty on materials" - I'm not inspired by this.

Stainless steel has a tendency to crack, depending on the alloy and use of course. If you are a real light rider, it might not be an issue. The five year warranty might be because the particular manufacturer is the one that warranties the tubes.

[Liberace]

Buy a Quiring. Only $1800 for a custom Columbus XCR tubed frame.
www.quiringcycles.net

[yankees1]

Bedford also offers tigged stainless as well!

[dd74]

no,cinelli/columbus don't weld anything,they have a sub contractor,cicli barco http://www.ciclibarco.it/
you may have the same xcr for about half the price...
The web site's in Italian, and anyway, Cinelli isn't mentioned anywhere on it. :confused:

[Mark McM]

Serious question: Does any builder offer a lifetime warranty on materials for steel bikes? I question why that would be reasonable to expect. Steel (even stainless) can rust, and modern steel (esp. stainless) is incredibly thin and not very dent resistant.

A warranty typically covers materials, design and construction (which are within the control of the manufacturer), not use and abuse (which is outside the control of the manufacturer). Rusting and denting are typically caused by use and abuse, so they usually aren't covered by a warrantee.

[jpw]

Buy a Quiring. Only $1800 for a custom Columbus XCR tubed frame.
www.quiringcycles.net

wow, what a price. sanity in the market.

[sante pollastri]

The web site's in Italian, and anyway, Cinelli isn't mentioned anywhere on it. :confused:

do you really think that a cinelli subcontractor speak about his work for cinelli on his web site?
have you seen the barco xcr?
is it so difficoult to compare with the cinelli xcr?:rolleyes:

[dd74]

do you really think that a cinelli subcontractor speak about his work for cinelli on his web site?
It would be good to provide proof of what you are claiming.

have you seen the barco xcr?
Nope.

is it so difficoult to compare with the cinelli xcr?:rolleyes:
Not for you, evidently.

Anyway, from the Cinelli website:
Since 1997 Cinelli is a division of Gruppo Srl, and together with Columbus it forms a productive pole of worldwide importance in the sector of very high-end bicycles.

The new facilities at Caleppio (Settala, to the south of Milan), opened in 2012, include the production plant and the central warehouse, design and sales offices, and a new space for the exhibit and conservation of the most important Cinelli pieces that have made the history of cycling and Italian bicycle design.

Again, that's from the Cinelli website and it's written in English. Note: the production plant.

And additionally, because of this move to Caleppio, the supply chain of XCR tubing has been slowed down. Now it's beginning to move again, which is allowing builders to take more orders and build more XCR frames, including Cinelli.

[sante pollastri]

It would be good to provide proof of what you are claiming.


Nope.


Not for you, evidently.

Anyway, from the Cinelli website:
Since 1997 Cinelli is a division of Gruppo Srl, and together with Columbus it forms a productive pole of worldwide importance in the sector of very high-end bicycles.

The new facilities at Caleppio (Settala, to the south of Milan), opened in 2012, include the production plant and the central warehouse, design and sales offices, and a new space for the exhibit and conservation of the most important Cinelli pieces that have made the history of cycling and Italian bicycle design.

Again, that's from the Cinelli website and it's written in English. Note: the production plant.

And additionally, because of this move to Caleppio, the supply chain of XCR tubing has been slowed down. Now it's beginning to move again, which is allowing builders to take more orders and build more XCR frames, including Cinelli.

but what a beatiful web culture....
again,try to look the two frames.
in cinelli they weld anything,all the metal frames(also the supercorsa) is made by f.lli barco,and if their web site isn't translated in english that is due to the fact that barco really works....
try to go beyond thw web.

[dd74]

but what a beatiful web culture....
again,try to look the two frames.
in cinelli they weld anything,all the metal frames(also the supercorsa) is made by f.lli barco,and if their web site isn't translated in english that is due to the fact that barco really works....
try to go beyond thw web.
Come on, Sante. Do you have some sort of inside information? I've spoken enough Italian to understand your English language contractions might suggest you know something no one else does about Cinelli's operations. :)

[sante pollastri]

Come on, Sante. Do you have some sort of inside information? I've spoken enough Italian to understand your English language contractions might suggest you know something no one else does about Cinelli's operations. :)

oh,Sir,excuse for my bad english:(
btw let continue with your web culture(only in english...),you are the only guy on this planet that think that cinelli weld in house:banana:

[dd74]

oh,Sir,excuse for my bad english:(
btw let continue with your web culture(only in english...),you are the only guy on this planet that think that cinelli weld in house:banana:
I have yet to see otherwise. That's why I ask you for proof that they subcontract somewhere else. And by that I mean written proof. Proof like what we see from other builders on the forum, such as Kirk, Bedford, Serotta, etc, who state they weld their own frames.

Some website you pull up off the internet doesn't quite cut it for me.

[sante pollastri]

from the web for the internauts,I think there is also the english translation....
http://www.bicivelox.com/showpost.php?p=2947949&postcount=49

[sante pollastri]

I have yet to see otherwise. That's why I ask you for proof that they subcontract somewhere else. And by that I mean written proof. Proof like what we see from other builders on the forum, such as Kirk, Bedford, Serotta, etc, who state they weld their own frames.

Some website you pull up off the internet doesn't quite cut it for me.

the proof is also in your eyes,what a big factory writes not ever is the truth...
in italy there are,specially in the past,a lot of subcontractors that worked for main brands,e.g. Confente for Bianchi,Galmozzi for Atala,Galmozzi for lygiè,Galmozzi for Flandria team bikes, Rauler for Colnago,Bertoletti for Passoni etc.etc.etc.....
obviously not a web body of evidence,only photos

[dd74]

from the web for the internauts,I think there is also the english translation....
http://www.bicivelox.com/showpost.php?p=2947949&postcount=49
I'll check it out. Thanks.

[sante pollastri]

I'll check it out. Thanks.

you are welcome,bdc forum is a good start point,also for many other brands.

[martl]

the proof is also in your eyes,what a big factory writes not ever is the truth...
in italy there are,specially in the past,a lot of subcontractors that worked for main brands,e.g. Confente for Bianchi,Galmozzi for Atala,Galmozzi for lygiè,Galmozzi for Flandria team bikes, Rauler for Colnago,Bertoletti for Passoni etc.etc.etc.....
obviously not a web body of evidence,only photos

This kind of information occasionally pops up; i heard the Barco brothers made the steel frames for Scapin, for exampe. Also a member of the Billato family wrote to a member of the "classic rendezvous" list a few years back and was quite open about for which big names they had made frames (including the later Cinelli SCs, iirc).
So it is well possible and quite common for brands like Cinelli to work with contractors. That is how Pegoretti started, too.

[sante pollastri]

This kind of information occasionally pops up; i heard the Barco brothers made the steel frames for Scapin, for exampe. Also a member of the Billato family wrote to a member of the "classic rendezvous" list a few years back and was quite open about for which big names they had made frames (including the later Cinelli SCs, iirc).
So it is well possible and quite common for brands like Cinelli to work with contractors. That is how Pegoretti started, too.

I didn't the story about billato,but in general I agree that only the best frame builder worked for cinelli,also zullo made the supercorsa for cinelli.....

[martl]

I didn't the story about billato,but in general I agree that only the best frame builder worked for cinelli,also zullo made the supercorsa for cinelli.....

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10402.0134.e ml

>From a Billato rep:
"I can't really go into who we build for a great deal as we have to
respect client confidentiality, but over the years Billato has built a
great number of frames for a whole host of well known names. You mentioned
Lemond, when he won the 1989 Tour, his time trial bike was built by
Billato, so that should lead to another brand! The guy who won the year
before, rode a Billato-built frame, as did the guy the year before. In
1990, Lemond won again, riding steel frames built from Excell tubes that
Billato helped develop. Some of these were TIG-welded, which hadn't been
seen on a road frame before. Others took the credit for introducing this a
year later.

There was the big Dutch team in the 80's, they rode Billato built frames.
More recently, in 1999, five of the teams riding the Tour rode
Billato-built frames. Last year 'only' three. Perhaps the best one — for
me anyway, is that shortly after Silvio Billato started the company, he
was supplying great rivals Coppi AND Bartali - at the same time!
Some of the early US Masi's were Billato. Also Cinelli Super Corsa.
They're no longer built so it's OK for the public domain as it were!

BTW, I spotted a Vicini on Classic Rendezvous a couple of weeks back. That
one too :)

[sante pollastri]

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10402.0134.e ml

many thanks....a legendary frame builder,like this other man http://www.mariocamilotto.com/about.html

[dd74]

This kind of information occasionally pops up; i heard the Barco brothers made the steel frames for Scapin, for exampe. Also a member of the Billato family wrote to a member of the "classic rendezvous" list a few years back and was quite open about for which big names they had made frames (including the later Cinelli SCs, iirc).
So it is well possible and quite common for brands like Cinelli to work with contractors. That is how Pegoretti started, too.
Interesting. I've had a Scapin (Barco-welded) and LeMond (Billato-built), and both were very good. As I recall, they rode just as well, if not a bit better than my steel Colnago.

[Charles M]

Stainless steel has a tendency to crack, depending on the alloy and use of course. If you are a real light rider, it might not be an issue. The five year warranty might be because the particular manufacturer is the one that warranties the tubes.


Stainless welded / worked poorly can potentially be more brittle, but the top guys using the material won't have much of an issue...

Some Ti and Alu tend to crack when poorly handled too.

Point being that we can name builders all day long, but the list of guys I would take a Stainless bike from is different than the list of guys that build in Stainless.

[Pete Mckeon]

subcontract to others in build and paint ,,,, this has been going on as a BAU for years. I do not have any quantified info on which model is to whom for build. Just as many carbon frames are made in Far East to a spec and then painted or built in the company whose name is on frame. FOCUS is one that I know for sure was doing this to some models in past years (as well as TREK here in the USA):confused:

Reputation of the brand and your lust for it needs to be a the criteria in determining factors in your selection,

I recall some years ago being in CA and seeing same welder in more than one well known frame builder's shop (SPokes was there with me).

And many painters do many brands.

I can bet s good red that Dave Kirk, RIchard Sachs, Ellis, Bedford do their own build but not their own paint:) I would also bet some good Italian RED that the same business processes and not an unknown in Italy:bike:

[jpw]

the list of guys I would take a Stainless bike from is different than the list of guys that build in Stainless.

wise words

[Charles M]

And...

"Factory floor" means very different things versus a decade ago or so and especially in Italy / France / UK / Belgium...

Folks like Bilato and Sarto and a few others are still builders in the genuine sense.

MANY others are not, and their factory floor is generally speaking, either a finishing floor or a storage floor and to some degree (where a couple of tubing guys are concerned) a shaping floor for butting, swaging, hydroforming. But even with the shaping, a lot of that is strictly speaking just the development of new things. Once they need a production run of a new shape, it will come from other places (not just asia).

It's the same with frame production, Some companies have very good on staff frame builders. But they're limited to product development and once they have what they want, the production order is placed elsewhere.

[dpmackey]

Tommasini also builds in Xcr.

Going to pick mine up on Friday after a 5 month wait....

[Ahneida Ride]

but the list of guys I would take a Stainless bike from is different than the list of guys that build in Stainless.

Yea .... Amen

With 30+ years of experience, Kelly's face always dones a different facial
expression of reverence when SS is mentioned.
He gets serious real fast when SS is mentioned.

That should tell ya something right there.