Campy Factory Wheel Cracks....

[titans]

I have 1 set of Nucleons and 2 sets of Neutrons but after 10k miles the front rim on the Nucleons and 1 set of the Neutrons have fine cracks on almost every single front wheel eyelit. No noise whatsoever when riding and wheels are true but does anyone else have this issue? I'm original owner and 160-165lb rider. I also have Shamal tubulars and rear wheel was making this tink tink noise when out of the saddle. I looked and sure enough small fine cracks on some of the eyelits. What gives? Now before you guys say go with handbuilts...been there done that many times over. Cracked Reflex and Fir rims all around the eyelits. Maybe I should go with wooden rims? :)

[AngryScientist]

i think 10k miles or so is about when you should replace rims anyway. they've served you well, replace.

[bluesea]

I'd expect more than 10k miles, which isn't even 2 yr.

[Grant McLean]

I have 1 set of Nucleons and 2 sets of Neutrons but after 10k miles the front rim on the Nucleons and 1 set of the Neutrons have fine cracks on almost every single front wheel eyelit.

I also have Shamal tubulars and rear wheel was making this tink tink noise when out of the saddle. I looked and sure enough small fine cracks on some of the eyelits. What gives?

How old are they? It sounds like a warranty issue. I've not heard much about
cracks from others around here. Warranty is three years on wheels, I believe.

-g

[thwart]

Wow. Unbelievable bad luck with usually bulletproof wheels.

Makes one wonder if you ride in salt a lot, or like to play with the spoke tension...

[earlfoss]

I have the same issue, weird!

My wheels are 10 ish years old and the rear is in perfect condition still.

I'm using them as pit wheels at this point, last season I raced them often with no issues.

[titans]

The Nuetrons and Nucleon are over 3 years old. The Shamals are being sent in for warranty since it is only 1 year old and has about 5600 miles on it. I have not played with tension nor do I ride in rain except for the occasional getting caught in an unexpected shower during the summer months. Wheels are perfectly true. These cracks are so fine that if you run your finger nail through them you will not feel anything.

If 10k or even 20k for that matter is the normal life cycle for aluminum wheelsets, what is the life cycle for carbon? I'd hate to shell out $$$$ every few years for new carbon wheels. Anyone out there with carbon wheels that they've ridden in excess of 25k miles? Might have to bite the bullet for carbon or build a set with HED Belgium tubular rims with King hubs. Thoughts?

Thanks all.

[rockdude]

i think 10k miles or so is about when you should replace rims anyway. they've served you well, replace.

Really?

Maybe at 70K-100k depending on the conditions you ride in. 10K means less than a year for many riders including me.

All of my Campy wheels have more than 10K on them including Nuetrons, Nucleon and Eurus. I had a pair of Shamals that had the same problem of cracking at the eyelets. But this was the older 9s models. It was a common problems but it never effected the ride of the wheels. I feel Campy makes the best wheels on the market.

Now, none of my carbon wheels make it to 10K but I use them for CX racing. At best they last 2-3 years of racing.

[lhuerta]

This is a VERY common issue. I own four sets of Nucleon/Neutron wheels and they ALL exhibit the same hairline cracks that you mention...a few of them are first generation Nucleon (12-15 years old?) Even my newest set with fewer then 5K miles has the same issue. Fortunately, the cracks are only hairline and I have never had an issue with any wheels de-tensioning or spokes pulling through. In fact I have never once had to true or tension any of my Nucleon/Neutron wheels. I was going to send the newest ones back for a warranty (the only ones I have ever purchased new) but figured I would simply ride them like I have the others and not worry one bit. These are, bar none, the best factory built wheels you can buy...IME.

My advice...ride them, ride them hard and worry free!

Lou

[thirdgenbird]

That is an interesting take on things

[BumbleBeeDave]

This is a VERY common issue. . . . These are, bar none, the best factory built wheels you can buy...IME.

. . . and they are the best factory wheels you can buy? Dude, I think you need a reality check.

If I'd spent thousands of dollars on a set of wheels, was putting in my usual 4-5k miles a year, and the rims started cracking I'd be screaming bloody murder at the company and shouting it from the Internet rooftops if I don't get some sort of resolution.

BBD

[saab2000]

I've had these tiny cracks myself. They don't get bigger and the wheels are fine. I ride Campagnolo Nucleon tubulars.

I once sold a pair on eBay and the new owner complained about the cracks and wanted a refund. I was skeptical but he sent me pics and sure enough, there were some cracks in the aluminum near the spoke holes. Apparently I had been riding them for years this way

We worked out a deal and everyone was happy. I had no intention of selling damaged goods but I also had no idea they were damaged. In other words, I don't think it's a problem. They're not likely to fail catastrophically so I'd keep riding them and it it's a problem then deal with it. But I bet you could ride them indefinitely like that. I know I have.

I have had amazing luck with these Campagnolo wheels and I'd be happy to keep riding them if I were you.

[Grant McLean]

If I'd spent thousands of dollars on a set of wheels...

One shouldn't have to spend more than $600-$800 for neutrons.
Even the carbon hub Ultra version is now less than $750
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-neutron-ultra-clincher-road-bike-wheelset/

-g

[BumbleBeeDave]

One shouldn't have to spend more than $600-$800 for neutrons.
Even the carbon hub Ultra version is now less than $750
http://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-neutron-ultra-clincher-road-bike-wheelset/

-g

. . . if I spent "only" $600-800 for a wheelset it's OK for them to start falling apart?

Even at that price, I stand by my comments. One should not spend that kind of money on some wheels and simply expect them to fall apart.

BBD

[Grant McLean]

. . . if I spent "only" $600-800 for a wheelset it's OK for them to start falling apart?


BBD

They don't.

-g

[slidey]

I'm sure BBD can more than stand his own ground, but I'm stepping in as I echo similar sentiments as he does on this issue. If a wheel develops cracks, hairline or not, after merely 10K miles it just implies shoddy manufacturing, poor QC standards, etc and is effectively unusable although I agree it hasn't disintegrated like origami would when crumpled up.

They don't.

-g

OP: Go for something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Mavic-Open-Ultegra-Road-Wheel/dp/B006VEP5RM - it will almost certainly outlast your Campy wheelsets.

For what its worth, my local wheelbuilder strongly prefers CK/Shimano over any other hubs. I also particularly remember him being thoroughly unimpressed with Campy wheels (hubs, specifically) the last time I spoke to him - make of that what you will.

[BumbleBeeDave]

They don't.

-g

. . . we'll have to agree to disagree, since I would define small cracks at many of the eyelets being the beginnings of falling apart.:rolleyes:

BBD

[saab2000]

I'm sure BBD can more than stand his own ground, but I'm stepping in as I echo similar sentiments as he does on this issue. If a wheel develops cracks, hairline or not, after merely 10K miles it just implies shoddy manufacturing, poor QC standards, etc and is effectively unusable although I agree it hasn't disintegrated like origami would when crumpled up.



OP: Go for something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Mavic-Open-Ultegra-Road-Wheel/dp/B006VEP5RM - it will almost certainly outlast your Campy wheelsets.

For what its worth, my local wheelbuilder strongly prefers CK/Shimano over any other hubs. I also particularly remember him being thoroughly unimpressed with Campy wheels (hubs, specifically) the last time I spoke to him - make of that what you will.

I've got many thousands of maintenance free miles on my Campagnolo wheels. I'm not sure why your wheelbuilder feels this way but almost everyone who owns Campagnolo wheels loves them.

I will not apologize for bad quality but to imply that the wheels are unusable is a stretch. That doesn't mean folks should be happy or run out and buy them but I'd be happy to take these from anyone and use them for years.

As to the hubs being no good? This is simply laughable and to me disqualifies the mechanic in question. Campagnolo has long produced some of the finest hubs in the cycling world. They are equaled now but for decades there were the standard. I own a set of the 8-speed hubs that are 20 years old and smooth as new. They were overhauled once. I've got two sets of the 10-speed hubs. They have been opened a couple times and one did develop some pitting and I bought the cups and cones. After a rebuild they were like new.

My Nucleon hubs have the same internals and have been zero-maintenance hubs since the beginning. I have pumped a bit of grease in occasionally over the years and that's it.

Buy them or not. There are lots of options. But it's absurd to think that Campagnolo hubs are substandard hubs and frankly, the wheels are strong, stiff and light and the 1/8" cracks that exist around some of the spokes haven't caused any issues at all for me. That's not saying they don't matter to the consumer who pays for this stuff, but they just don't affect the integrity of the wheels. I'm confident saying that.

[oldpotatoe]

i think 10k miles or so is about when you should replace rims anyway. they've served you well, replace.

I have some wheels I built about 8 years ago..probably 32,000 miles, not done yet.

[thwart]

. . . if I spent "only" $600-800 for a wheelset it's OK for them to start falling apart?

Even at that price, I stand by my comments. One should not spend that kind of money on some wheels and simply expect them to fall apart.

BBD

While I appreciate your perspective, it's important to note that everyone above (including Saab and Lou, who generally know what they're talking about... :D) has stated that even if they've seen hairline cracks, they've not seen a wheel fail.

FWIW, I just looked at my 3 sets of Nucleons (2 clincher, 1 tubular).

No hairline cracks.

[slidey]

You can write poems about Campy hubs, but I couldn't care less...I have two reasons to not use them -
1. I inadvertently made the choice of choosing Shimano componentry when I bought my first bike used, and consequently have no desire to move over to something new when all's peachy on this side of the spectrum, and
2. The person in question is the best wheelbuilder in town, so you'll excuse me if I take his word over yours. Also, he isn't one to speak ill about any brand, he was merely responding to my asking him what he thought of me trying to score a fancy Campy wheelset as opposed to building one up with 7900 hubs. He said Campy of today, in terms of wheels, is not the Campy of yore and I should consider it if I had more of a disposable income.

As to the hubs being no good? This is simply laughable and to me disqualifies the mechanic in question.

[slidey]

How you can be so confident saying that hairline cracks don't affect the integrity of the wheelset is beyond me.

If wheelset - cracks == wheelset + cracks, then cracks = nothing.

That in itself is a contradiction. So yes, for the kind of riding you do maybe cracks have no effect, but to say that they'll hold up to any kind of stresses/strains is definitely illogical. I'm confident of saying that.

frankly, the wheels are strong, stiff and light and the 1/8" cracks that exist around some of the spokes haven't caused any issues at all for me. That's not saying they don't matter to the consumer who pays for this stuff, but they just don't affect the integrity of the wheels. I'm confident saying that.

[dd74]

I would simply call Campagnolo USA in Carlsbad, CA., and ask them about the cracking and whether or not the rims are safe. Those guys will know.

[Len J]

You can write poems about Campy hubs, but I couldn't care less...I have two reasons to not use them -
1. I inadvertently made the choice of choosing Shimano componentry when I bought my first bike used, and consequently have no desire to move over to something new when all's peachy on this side of the spectrum, and
2. The person in question is the best wheelbuilder in town, so you'll excuse me if I take his word over yours. Also, he isn't one to speak ill about any brand, he was merely responding to my asking him what he thought of me trying to score a fancy Campy wheelset as opposed to building one up with 7900 hubs. He said Campy of today, in terms of wheels, is not the Campy of yore and I should consider it if I had more of a disposable income.

So a person who mAkes his money selling custom wheels isn't a fan of compAny built wheels........who would have thunk it? I'm shocked.

[Grant McLean]

I've got many thousands of maintenance free miles on my Campagnolo wheels.

Just echoing this. I've put at least 100,000km on various sets of campagnolo prebuilt wheels
since about 1999 and never did any maintenence besides a few drips of oil
into the freehub body. Never trued one, never had any issues.

People can use whatever they like. The Campagnolo alloy prebuilts that cost $500-900
are great wheels. Neutrons and Eurus wheels are more reliable than any handbuilt
made in the last 30 years. But then guys who sell handbuilt wheels for a living will
beg to differ.

-g

[ergott]

My local buddy rides about 18k miles a year. He doesn't replace his wheels twice a year:) A good indication of a wheel that has served its purpose is one that has the brake track worn out (unsafe to ride anymore).

I've heard great things about Campagnolo wheels in general and haven't dealt with the hairline cracks mentioned here. I can't say how long it takes from hairline to complete failure. I can say that those wheels have a brass washer in between the nipple and the rim (at least they used to). That probably spreads the load better and will prolong life after a few cracks show up. I'm not saying it should be considered normal or acceptable though.

[thirdgenbird]

I'm sure BBD can more than stand his own ground, but I'm stepping in as I echo similar sentiments as he does on this issue. If a wheel develops cracks, hairline or not, after merely 10K miles it just implies shoddy manufacturing, poor QC standards, etc and is effectively unusable although I agree it hasn't disintegrated like origami would when crumpled up.



OP: Go for something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Mavic-Open-Ultegra-Road-Wheel/dp/B006VEP5RM - it will almost certainly outlast your Campy wheelsets.

Complaining about cracks and then suggesting open pros seems silly. I think they come right after bontrager on my list of most commonly damaged rims. Open pros of old were good but it seems quality has lessened over the years.

[Lionel]

Current campy wheels I have are neutron ultra, shamal utlra and bora ultra II. The hubs are simply the very best in the business, I am glad I do not live in this town where the best wheelbuilder believes these hubs are bad,

I used to have proton and neutron as well.

I never had ANY issue with campy wheels, they are bomb proof IMO.

[rockdude]

I have something like 17 set of wheels currently and have had all the highly acclaimed set like Lightweights, zipp 303 & 404 etc... I personally prefer the campy wheels over all the others. For a good set of wheels the brake tracks will wear out before the wheels need to be retired that is true for my Campys.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm sure BBD can more than stand his own ground, but I'm stepping in as I echo similar sentiments as he does on this issue. If a wheel develops cracks, hairline or not, after merely 10K miles it just implies shoddy manufacturing, poor QC standards, etc and is effectively unusable although I agree it hasn't disintegrated like origami would when crumpled up.



For what its worth, my local wheelbuilder strongly prefers CK/Shimano over any other hubs. I also particularly remember him being thoroughly unimpressed with Campy wheels (hubs, specifically) the last time I spoke to him - make of that what you will.

Interesting that recent and current DA hubs are very similar in design to 1999+ Campag hubs. PLUS look for a Campagnolo compatible FH body to fit onto shimano hubs..oh, there isn't one.

CK, altho nice and expensive, and come in colors...are certainly not on this wheelbuilder's short list for recommended hubs. "$100 answer to a $25 question", for a bicycle hub, afterall.

Maybe he's talking about flange spacing and current shimano 11s compatible hubs, like CK and shimano 9000 have flange spacing pretty much identical to Campagnolo..which has been that way for about 14 years.

Don't like lack of drillings for Campagnolo hubs for sure but in terms of longevity, service-ability, shimano and Campagnolo are my first choices. I often build Record hubs, swap the FH body for shimano 11s one, and build for shimano/sram systems also.

[AngryScientist]

i think 10k miles or so is about when you should replace rims anyway. they've served you well, replace.

you guys were correct, the more i think about it, i definitely have wheels with well over 10k on them.

campy prebuilts, specifically, i have found to be fantastic across the board. zero problems with multiple sets, from my shamals, right down to the mid-low end scirroccos, all excellent and reliable.

to the OP: sounds like the cracking is pretty "normal" and likely not to get much worse. keep an eye on them and keep riding!

[bluesea]

Don't like lack of drillings for Campagnolo hubs for sure but in terms of longevity, service-ability, shimano and Campagnolo are my first choices. I often build Record hubs, swap the FH body for shimano 11s one, and build for shimano/sram systems also.



Are Shimano 10 or 11 free hubs available for Campy Record component hubs?

What about Shimano 11 for Neutron, Eurus, and Shamal?

Why is there so much criticism of the geometrics of the Record rear hub, which basically says its no longer strong enough because of the free hub length?

[charliedid]

You must be mistaken....Campy has never made anything that fell apart.

Please check again.

[ergott]

PLUS look for a Campagnolo compatible FH body to fit onto shimano hubs..oh, there isn't one.


In their defense, it's easier to start with a Campagnolo compatible hub and make a Shimano freehub body. Since Campagnolo splines run deeper, you must use smaller freehub bearings since you are diameter limited. If you design a hub for Shimano (take Chris King Classic for example) and make the bearings as large as possible and also use an oversized axle, you run into a problem trying to fit that system into a Campagnolo freehub. You have to either use smaller bearings, different diameter axle or a combination of both.

[titans]

Appreciate everyone's input and those who suggest to just keep riding them based on their own experiences with these cracks. I probably rode them for many miles without realizing it but now that I know a certain amount of fear has crept in. I no longer race but do participate in spirited club rides on the weekends where rider turnout can be 50+ during the warm months. The thought of the wheels failing and going down and worse yet taking fellow riders out with me is a real concern. Luckily the Shamals are under warranty but Neutrons will be relegated to roller duty.

There was a mention on Chris King hubs. If you were to build a set of tubular wheels, would you go King hubs or DT 240s? Velocity Escape/Major Tom rims or HED Belgiums. 28 hole drilling. Thoughts?

[oldpotatoe]

Are Shimano 10 or 11 free hubs available for Campy Record component hubs?

What about Shimano 11 for Neutron, Eurus, and Shamal?

Why is there so much criticism of the geometrics of the Record rear hub, which basically says its no longer strong enough because of the free hub length?

Yep and the one for the hubs are the same for the ones for the complete wheels..Fulcrum also. I have shimano 10s and now shimano 11s for Hubs, steel or aluminum axle, as well as wheels, Campag or Fulcrum.

It's been 'strong enough' for this wheelbuilder for 14 years(introduced in 1999, current design, same flange diameters and center to flange distances) and for 10 years before that. Including many rear wheels built on non OC rims.

[oldpotatoe]

In their defense, it's easier to start with a Campagnolo compatible hub and make a Shimano freehub body. Since Campagnolo splines run deeper, you must use smaller freehub bearings since you are diameter limited. If you design a hub for Shimano (take Chris King Classic for example) and make the bearings as large as possible and also use an oversized axle, you run into a problem trying to fit that system into a Campagnolo freehub. You have to either use smaller bearings, different diameter axle or a combination of both.

Diameter of 7800/7900/9000 rear axles are the same as Campagnolo.

So if they can make a ti or steel FH for shimano, they can make one for Campagnolo..just copy the Campag one, bearing wise BUT things like this happen slowly at shimano, or not at all.

[oldpotatoe]

Appreciate everyone's input and those who suggest to just keep riding them based on their own experiences with these cracks. I probably rode them for many miles without realizing it but now that I know a certain amount of fear has crept in. I no longer race but do participate in spirited club rides on the weekends where rider turnout can be 50+ during the warm months. The thought of the wheels failing and going down and worse yet taking fellow riders out with me is a real concern. Luckily the Shamals are under warranty but Neutrons will be relegated to roller duty.

There was a mention on Chris King hubs. If you were to build a set of tubular wheels, would you go King hubs or DT 240s? Velocity Escape/Major Tom rims or HED Belgiums. 28 hole drilling. Thoughts?

DA would be my first choice, DT 350, DT 240, White, Alchemy..some others...not CK unless you want colors. IMHO.

Built a few HED, lotsa Velocity..for the $, Velocity hard to beat. Escape if ya want a narrow rim, Major Tom if ya want the fat one.

[ergott]

Diameter of 7800/7900/9000 rear axles are the same as Campagnolo.

So if they can make a ti or steel FH for shimano, they can make one for Campagnolo..just copy the Campag one, bearing wise BUT things like this happen slowly at shimano, or not at all.

Shimano copy Campagnolo? Sacrebleu sir. They have no incentive since they are the big fish.

[christian]

There was a mention on Chris King hubs. If you were to build a set of tubular wheels, would you go King hubs or DT 240s? Velocity Escape/Major Tom rims or HED Belgiums. 28 hole drilling. Thoughts?I have three sets of alloy tubular wheelsets. Campagnolo Record hubs on all of them. I don't see why you'd go to another brand of hubs for Campagnolo alloy tubulars. 32h, yes, but so what.

[ergott]

DA would be my first choice, DT 350, DT 240, White, Alchemy..some others...not CK unless you want colors. IMHO.

Built a few HED, lotsa Velocity..for the $, Velocity hard to beat. Escape if ya want a narrow rim, Major Tom if ya want the fat one.

I second Velocity. Major Tom for 'cross and Escape for road. The Major Tom rim shape is better for bigger tires since the rim bed curve has a bigger radius. 23mm tires don't always get edge to edge contact. Escape is lighter and is still a tough little rim. Plenty of glue area for smaller tires.

[AgilisMerlin]

I'd expect more than 10k miles, which isn't even 2 yr.

Agree.

Had a silver open pro go after 1 year. Unbelievable. Could see the alum grain running through the rim and spoke tension (not much) pull the eyelet and cause cracks on both sides

Am running a durace fr. From 99' on one of my bikes and no issues / silver open pro. Many many miles.

Sometimes believe production runs for manufacturers are sometimes, well questionable?

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano copy Campagnolo? Sacrebleu sir. They have no incentive since they are the big fish.

Well, first time I took a 7800 hub apart, geeezz, it was like a copy of the Campag aluminum hub of the day. Aluminum axle, FH body hanging in the breeze, deep notched(shimano 10s only, thanks)..3/16 balls(in cages) rather than 5/32 but the similarity was amazing. Yep, they came to their senses with 7850..but 7800/7810 was very similar.

[Tom]

No worries here. I ride Neutron Ultras all the time as soon as winter's over and I can take the truck wheels off. I've replaced two. One, a Mustang passed through it and wrecked the rim. I had it rebuilt around the hub. The second, I wore out the braking surface. I'm going to have that one rebuilt, after about 30,000 miles the hub is still better than the Ksyrium's. It spins longer.

One time last year I forgot about some road construction where there was this nice square trench across the road, I hit that going about 30 miles an hour and never even attempted to hop it, no time. Aside from an immediate flat, no issues whatsoever.

Ya wanna get rid of those wheels? Send them to me. I'l give you my contact info if you're worried.

[dana_e]

Fulcrum racing 1

[dana_e]

pic

[Lovetoclimb]

If you want to unload a set of those Neutrons let me know, cracks be damned!

[Peter B]

Looks like the welded joint where the rim extrusion ends are joined rather than a crack. If so, well it could have been finished with a bit more finesse.

[jds108]

Looks like the welded joint where the rim extrusion ends are joined rather than a crack. If so, well it could have been finished with a bit more finesse.

Yup, especially consider the price they go for!

[dana_e]

rim ends at that point, yes

I like it

go campy wheels I mean Fulcrum

[shinomaster]

. . . if I spent "only" $600-800 for a wheelset it's OK for them to start falling apart?

Even at that price, I stand by my comments. One should not spend that kind of money on some wheels and simply expect them to fall apart.

BBD

My Neutrons are 11 years old and my zonda's are 10 year old.. No cracks. Will buy again!