Searching for a good Source for WWI and WWII Battles related to spring classics?

[MattTuck]

Anyone know of a book on the subject of past battles where the classics are now held?

[RonW87]

Band of Brothers. A good chunk of it is about the 101st Airborne's participation in Operation Market/Garden (Arnhem and Nijmegen, near Amstel route) and the Battle of the Bulge (Bastogne).

[gdw]

The Dartmouth Bookstore probably has some of Richard Holmes books in stock. His battlefield guides are excellent and this one covers the region quite well:
http://www.amazon.com/Army-Battlefield-Guide-Belgium-Northern/dp/0117727628

[phcollard]

Band of Brothers. A good chunk of it is about the 101st Airborne's participation in Operation Market/Garden (Arnhem and Nijmegen, near Amstel route) and the Battle of the Bulge (Bastogne).

I was gonna say Bastogne. I rode around there last summer with some friends from Canada and they were amazed at the WWII sights you can find along the roads (bunkers, tanks, fortifications... American Military Cemeteries).

[carpediemracing]

As a European theater WW2... student? I've read a lot of books about WW2 relating to Europe, even going as far as reading historical fiction (fictional characters portrayed in real battles with real tactics etc).

I also grew up in Holland, living there from 4-11 years age. As a boy it was great. The local zoo had a Sherman tank and a holed mini-sub in the playground. There were/are abandoned bunkers in the woods, doors welded shut. Barb wire in the middle of the woods. Etc. Holland is neutral to everyone but ends up the easiest way for Germany to get to France so it's been run over a bunch of times.

As far as reading up on the battles what do you want to know? There's soooo much written on WW2, particularly the European theater, that you can really pick and choose what you want to know. Even now, after reading about this stuff for 35 years, I discover new books with allegedly more accurate information relating to actual unit strengths, terrain issues, supply issues, etc.

What you realize is that the real tough fighting occurred in WW1 over a very localized area. They'd sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to take 5 or 10 miles of terrain and then give it up a month or six later.

In WW2 the worst fighting in the bike racing areas were in Normandy, a couple areas where Germans escaped getting encircled, and then Germany. I think the absolute worst took place in Russia but I don't know of many bike races going through those areas.

Some authors travel to the places where pivotal battles occurred, take pictures of the area as they are now, point out where, for example, the first tanks rolled up the banks out of a river. Or where a famous fort roof is (in that picture there was a goat eating grass on the roof I think). Etc.

[MattTuck]

Thanks for the advice. I'll go to the bookstore and check out the Army Battlefield Guide if it is available.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for. I had wanted to go to Europe this year to see RvV and Paris-Roubaix, flying into Amsterdam on Thursday before Flanders, seeing some sites there before heading down to Bruges and the rest of Belgium, seeing the race, then checking out France a bit, probably getting to Verdun, the memorials at Normandy and seeing some prehistoric cave sites before heading to Paris for a day or two and then up North to see P-R.

Personal circumstances didn't allow me to go this year, but it's a trip I'd like to take in the future.

I have read that PR was called "Hell of the North" because they rode through the old battlefields and it was a real bleak landscape. I'm sure there's a lot of history there, I'm just curious to get a perspective.

Would love to see then/now pictures of the relevant spots, that is a hobby of mine (more so in cities, than in war zones.)

[maunahaole]

Kemmelberg. Big feature on Gent Wevelgem. Hairball descent on cobbles.

http://www.rapha.cc/the-kemmelberg

[gdw]

There are some excellent WWI websites with detailed info on the areas you're interested in. This one is pretty good and has a bit more info on Mt Kemmel than Rapha offers:
http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flanders/kemmel.html

[Louis]

In Flanders Fields, John McCrae

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[MattTuck]

Are you trying to make me cry? :(

An incredibly touching poem.

[thwart]

A Storm in Flanders by Winston Groom...

http://www.amazon.com/Storm-Flanders-Salient-1914-1918-Tragedy/dp/0802139981/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1364356879&sr=8-1&keywords=A+Storm+in+Flanders

Tells the story of the Ypres Salient, about which the poem above was written.

500,000 men died there in WWI.

No real winner or loser, for many this series of battles and horrific loss of life represent the epitome of the insanity of war.

Gent-Wevelgem went thru Ypres (now Ieper) for the first time this year, IIRC.

[R2D2]

There are some excellent WWI websites with detailed info on the areas you're interested in. This one is pretty good and has a bit more info on Mt Kemmel than Rapha offers:
http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flanders/kemmel.html

I was going to mention WWI also. My Grandfather spent two years in the trenches. I believe that's when most of the land was cleared.


I am humbled by so many in WWI and WWII that had to fight.

And to OP, thanks for reminding us the spring classics cover some very hallowed ground.

[everbeek]

Anyone know of a book on the subject of past battles where the classics are now held?

A little bit older than the 20th century but the battle that defined France as a state, Battle of Bouvines (27 July 1214) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bouvines is literally not far from the back door of the Café de l’Arbre http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2009/04/cafe-de-larbre.html at the end of the carrefour de l'Arbre section of Paris-Roubaix.
-Mike

[MattTuck]

This great, I'm loving the history. Also going a bit further back than WWI, the Côte de La Redoute featured prominently in Liege-Bastogne-Liege is named for a Redoubt in the Battle of Sprimont.

From the Wiki:
The battle of Sprimont, battle of Esneux or battle of the Ourthe was a battle between French Republican and Austrian troops on the plateau between the valleys of the Vesdre, the Ourthe and the Amblève, 20 km to the south of Liège. It occurred on 17 and 18 September 1794 and was a French Republican victory put a final end to the Ancien Régime in what is now Belgium (then essentially the Austrian Netherlands, Principality of Liège and the Principality of Stavelot-Malmedy). The French troops dislodged Austrian troops occupying the plateau, though the French suffered heavy losses. Associated with the battle are the villages of Sprimont, Esneux, Fontin and the site of the La Redoute, whose name originates in a redoubt involved in the battle.