Landshark rear spacing

[canham]

I recently bought a steel landshark frame via craigslist. Upon receiving the frame I noticed that the rear spacing was unusually tight; so much so, that I have to move the stays apart by hand to get the wheel in. Being curious, I measured the spacing to find that it came out around 124-5 mm.

This is a modern frame; it has a 1 1/8 headset, so I don't think it was spaced for a 7-speed group. The frame doesn't look to have been damaged in shipping. I asked the seller about the spacing, and he said that's just how the frame was made.

Has anyone encountered something similar with a landshark? Is there any problem using my usual 130 mm spaced wheels on this frame?

[Oregonic]

I'd have it cold-set at a reputable shop. That way the spacing will be correct without fighting it everyone time. At that point, you could have them check to make sure the dropouts are aligned (spreading the frame by hand each time could affect this) and you can check the derailleur tab alignment as well. Might as well start off with everything straight and in working order!

[donevwil]

That's an odd width. I could see 126mm built for some retro-grouch at the time, but I'm more inclined to think damage or previous owner cold setting it to run fixed or something. If I were you I'd have the alignment of the rear triangle checked at a shop. 124-5mm isn't way off, but the concern being is it all from one side. Other than wheel insertion and removal PITA you'll have no issues with a 130mm wheel, but you should ultimately have it adjusted accordingly by a good shop or local framebulder.

[cat6]

Takin' It 2 the Next Level is the fourteenth album by the jazz group the World Saxophone Quartet and their second on the Canadian Justin Time label. The album features performances by Hamiet Bluiett, John Purcell, Oliver Lake and David Murray, with a rhythm section of Don Blackman, Calin Jones and Ronnie Burrage.

[Ken Robb]

Why not call John Slawta and ask him for info and advice?

[canham]

i heard john slawta was trying to force the industry to a new 125mm standard in the early-mid 2000's. it looks like you got one from that era. DO NOT ADJUST THE SPACING! it's a collectors item.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. I was going to swing by the shop and have them respace the frame tomorrow.

[canham]

So it turns out none of the local shops have a frame jig, nor are they willing to respace the frame. Is there any problem just leaving the frame as is (other than the hassle of getting the wheel in and out)? I've read somewhere that putting the stays under constant pressure is not particularly good.

[christian]

Cat6 was joking.

And yes, putting a 130mm wheel in a 125mm frame without cold setting the frame to 130mm will eventually break the chainstay/dropout junction.

I'd send it back. If you can't do that, you need to cold set it to 130mm.

(BTW, you don't need a frame jig to re-space a frame. A 2x4 and some alignment tools are sufficient.)

[srice]

Got a 2x4 and a piece of string?

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

[christian]

He's going to need alignment tools (or at least a BF adjustable wrench) and a derailleur hanger alignment tool, at least, too.

[canham]

He's going to need alignment tools (or at least a BF adjustable wrench) and a derailleur hanger alignment tool, at least, too.

Based on a quick call to John, I suspect the frame was built to be at 130. So I might not have to align the dropouts or hanger. But is there any counterindication to cold-setting a fillet-brazed frame?

[1/2 Wheeler]

Do a "title only" search with the words "cold set (http://forums.thepaceline.net/search.php?searchid=1369283)" on any cycling forum and you are likely to find a step by step process to check alignment and cold set as required.

[oldpotatoe]

So it turns out none of the local shops have a frame jig, nor are they willing to respace the frame. Is there any problem just leaving the frame as is (other than the hassle of getting the wheel in and out)? I've read somewhere that putting the stays under constant pressure is not particularly good.

WHAT? Don't need a frame jig, just a way to get the stays 2mm or so out and then the tools to align the dropouts. Guess they are the typical clueless bike shop..too bad.

'May' break a dropout, should get it cold set. Tell the bike shops to get a clue.

[spaced_ghost]

a shop that tells you they don't have a frame jig to respace a steel frame 5mm needs help. just cold set it. i.e., grab the stays and spread them enough to fit the wheel in. i've done this literally hundreds of times with steel frames with no adverse effects.

[Fivethumbs]

What did people do when Shimano's Dura Ace 130mm 8 speed came out in 1991 and all the manufacturers were still making frames with 126mm spacing? The first 130mm hubs were designed with special rounded washers that spread the stays as you forced the rear wheel in. I never heard anything about frames breaking, it was a non-issue. After all it was only 2mm per side. Bikes flex that much all the time when you are out of the saddle pedaling. The easiest would be to cold set it. That way when changing flats on the road it's just easier. The Sheldon Brown method works great. I used it on two bikes with no issues. Just make sure to put something between the 2X4 and the frame to protect the paint.

[canham]

Thanks for the advice everyone! After reading the Sheldon Brown method, I came home, unscrewed a table leg (didn't have a 2x4 available) and got to work. 10 minutes later, the frame is spaced perfectly.

Then I took another look at the box in which the bike arrived. Turns out the inside of the box had deep impressions of the stays. Looks like the box got squished during shipping, which messed up the spacing.

Should I be at all concerned about that having happened?

[spaced_ghost]

i'm going to guess its fine if there are no visible dents.

[christian]

You should be concerned with a ****ty packing job. I'd never ever ship a frame without the drop outs supported. There's a reason they make those plastic spacers for the drop outs.

Re-setting it to 130mm isn't ideal but it'll probably be ok.

[AgilisMerlin]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1973%20Super%20Sport%20CJ809208/ColdSetRearDropouts-130mm.jpg

http://www.commonwheel.org.uk/files/blue%20scot%20cold%20setting.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wCFboUa-pyw/Tzsf97l9mXI/AAAAAAAACaY/eb-jn2mp0lw/s640/2012-02-14_20-43-10_496.jpg

[spaced_ghost]

http://www.commonwheel.org.uk/files/blue%20scot%20cold%20setting.JPG


seriously. anyone who thinks this doesn't work with a steel frame is too precious with their stuff or has never actually worked in a shop.

[oldpotatoe]

a shop that tells you they don't have a frame jig to respace a steel frame 5mm needs help. just cold set it. i.e., grab the stays and spread them enough to fit the wheel in. i've done this literally hundreds of times with steel frames with no adverse effects.

well, you really need to align the dropouts once you spread the frame. And you need to make sure the stays are aligned with the seat and headtube, distance wise. Just yanking on the stays, "enough to fit the wheel in", when it results in the rear triangle not aligned isn't a good idea, IMHO.

AND the dude above needs to get a clue also, IMHO. Clamping the seat tube THEN yanking on the stays..poor, IMHO. On a thin walled tube, he will crimp it.

Proper to take BB out, BB shell in a vice, proper tool to gently pull on stays, tool like Park FAG tool, or string, then H tools to make dropouts aligned and der hanger tool to make der hanger aligned. No, it's not hard but there is a good way and bad way to do it. The guy above ain't doin' it right , again, IMHO, and wouldn't work for me doing it this way.

[spaced_ghost]

oh, yeah, i didn't mean his particular method of doing it.