First Road Bike group help

[killacks]

I'm dazzled by some of the gallery pics here; the aesthetics and creative functionality of many bikes here is incredible. However, my real life cycling experiences need to be nurtured.

I recently purchased a frameset that I intend to become my "first real road bike." It's a 1998 Jamis Eclipse purchased from a fellow forumite. My question for all the helpful folks here is, what to build it up with? Here are some of my current criteria. Please excuse any faux pas or anything similarly noob-ish:

- Should cater to recreational riding, exploring, and distances long and short.

- I don't need top-end goodies, nor am I too keen on the the lowest-end either. Whatever strikes the right balance between performance and value.

Please assist with ideas for any of the major component manufacturers if possible, compete with group names/numbers or other pertinent info.

Thanks so much

[AngryScientist]

shimano 5700 or campy centaur.

both phenomenal groups.

[christian]

Shimano Tiagra 10-speed and 105 10-speed are astonishgly good for what they cost. If I were a new roadie, that's what I'd get. And I'm a Campagnolo guy, through and through.

[christian]

5700 is the Shimano model number for 105 10-speed. So AS and I are basically saying the same thing.

[Ken Robb]

Shimano 105 or Ultegra works great and costs less than Dura Ace. I would get a triple to ride until/in case you find you are ok with a double. If you find that you never use the small ring you will know that you can get along with a double. If you go on rides where you are glad to have the small ring you are all set with no immediate need to upgrade.

I also like Campy stuff but I don't see as many bargains available and they don't do much with triples. Once you have been riding for a few months you will know what changes you may want to make if any.

I have almost no experience with SRAM stuff.

[velomateo]

Don't rule out a good low mileage used group. I have used the"doner bike" method several times. Find a nice low mileage used bike and swap the components and wheels to your frame. Super huge bikes are usually your best deal. Then just sell off the frame' I've actually got parts for free after selling the frame. Good luck.

[kramnnim]

A Veloce group is under $500 from Shinybikes...

[Vientomas]

Like others, I am a Campy guy, but I had a Shimano 105 group on a bike a couple of years ago and it worked extremely well for my recreational needs. In my opinion, it is a good value.

For me, Campy has a more tactile and positive feel to the shift lever than the 105 Group.

[RonW87]

I second veloce. From ribble or chain reaction. Probably not much over $400.

[sand fungus]

I am with everyone else I would suggest the new Shimano 105 group as it is a good value group. It is what I just purchased for my new commuter bike.

[Louis]

Shimano 105 if you're buying new. Ultegra if you can find it at a good price new or used. Both are incredibly good.

Caveat: my experience is with 8 and 9 speed, but Shimano's just as good as ever.

[pdmtong]

as a new person. get 105 and be happy. I love campy. but forget it. thsi is a price/value/resale play. 105 delivers in spades. get it and go out and ride, a lot. after that come back and revisit the question. you can unload 105 the easiest of all.

also, forget tiagra. my then 12yo daughter could tell the superiority of 105 10sp over tiagra hen I moved her form a 44cm dolce to a 48cm ruby

[FlashUNC]

As others have said. Shimano 105. Maybe Campy Veloce if you're feeling froggy.

That'll meet your needs.

[cmg]

used Ultegra is a great value. you only need shifters, rear derailuer and cassette that matches the shifter capability, 9 spd shifters, 9 spd r derailluer with 9 spd cassette as an example. brakes can be what's available for your budget. there's a lot of wheels available for shimano. If you use campagnolo the brakes can still be shimano but not the other way around. so you can use shimano ultegra 10 shifter, r derailluer, cassette with 9 spd f derailluer and whatever brakes. use the highest level of shifters, r derailluer and cassette you can afford. cobble everything else. bought a used one that had a ultegra shifter, xtr r deralluer, 9spd f derailluer, DA brakes. worked fine.

[slidey]

If you want to set it up as a regular (i.e. double) 9-speed:
+ used Shimano Ultegra 6500, 6503 for triple. Don't think there are options to buy 9-speed groupsets new.

If you want to set it up as a 10-speed:
+ Option1: used Shimano Ultegra 6600 is probably the best bang for buck. You can find it for a reasonably cheap price on the used market.
+ Option2: used Shimano Ultegra 6700. The likelihood of getting a good deal on this increases if you buy parts separately and are really patient, rather than as a groupset. I wouldn't hold my breath though, as this is a fantastic groupset with a very good resale value.
+ Option3: New Shimano 105 groupset.

[christian]

also, forget tiagra. my then 12yo daughter could tell the superiority of 105 10sp over tiagra hen I moved her form a 44cm dolce to a 48cm rubyPaul, was this Tiagra 4600/4650? Previous generations weren't great, but I am really impressed by 4600.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm dazzled by some of the gallery pics here; the aesthetics and creative functionality of many bikes here is incredible. However, my real life cycling experiences need to be nurtured.

I recently purchased a frameset that I intend to become my "first real road bike." It's a 1998 Jamis Eclipse purchased from a fellow forumite. My question for all the helpful folks here is, what to build it up with? Here are some of my current criteria. Please excuse any faux pas or anything similarly noob-ish:

- Should cater to recreational riding, exploring, and distances long and short.

- I don't need top-end goodies, nor am I too keen on the the lowest-end either. Whatever strikes the right balance between performance and value.

Please assist with ideas for any of the major component manufacturers if possible, compete with group names/numbers or other pertinent info.

Thanks so much

Campagnolo Veloce, Centaur..shimano 5700 or 6700, double, triple or compact. Set of Miche, Velocity, shimano hubs, laced to a set of DT 450, Mavic OpenSport, Velocity Razor or the like.

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano 105 or Ultegra works great and costs less than Dura Ace. I would get a triple to ride until/in case you find you are ok with a double. If you find that you never use the small ring you will know that you can get along with a double. If you go on rides where you are glad to have the small ring you are all set with no immediate need to upgrade.

I also like Campy stuff but I don't see as many bargains available and they don't do much with triples. Once you have been riding for a few months you will know what changes you may want to make if any.

I have almost no experience with SRAM stuff.

2013, Athena, Centaur and Veloce all have new, triple offerings.

[pdmtong]

There is a just posted a 105 group in the classifieds. There you go.

[cmg]

i'm a fan of campy, have it on all my bikes but there's nothing that they do that is cheap. Last forever and is rebuildable, a great value after you decide to play the game for longer.

[Thirsty Owl]

It just so happens that a member has a new 105 Groupset in the "Classified" section.
Seems like a reasonable price.

[shovelhd]

It is, and he is a great seller as well.

[killacks]

Your help thus far has been great!

I've been reading the replies while simultaneously researching and browsing classifieds in another. Part of me would like to go ahead and buy a whole group outright. Unfortunately, that part of me is not my wallet.

I'll likely piece things together over the next few months, buying a part or two at a time. Shimano sounds real good, but I'm very intrigued by Campy, partially because of what seems like a cult-like following among users, and also from an article I read about them in a cycling magazine a while back. They seem like a neat company.

A couple more questions:

- So far as Shimano is concerned, so long as I match numbers (i.e. 5700 or 6600, etc.), I assume I am good to go. But, are there compatibility issues moving between 105 and Ultegra? How about moving between 6600 and 6700?

- Similarly, with Campagnolo, if I were to go 10 speed or 11 speed, how do I ensure that everything will work together? Should I just go by group name (i.e. all Centaur)?

I am one to ask many questions, in an effort to find the simplest solution, if that makes sense. Thanks for everyone's patience and assistance.

[reggiebaseball]

what is your budget for components?
do you need a seatpost, stem, bars and wheels?

[Ken Robb]

Let's defer to Old Potatoe for the compatibility issues.

Generally you can get more for your money by buying a whole group than just a piece at a time. Maybe you should save up until your budget allows you to buy a group all at once. That should also solve compatibility questions.

[killacks]

Not really sure about the budget. Probably less that $500, just not all at once. I think purchasing a piece here and there is a fun way to get everything together also. It's kind of a learn-as-I-go thing and it makes it easier for me to part ways with my surplus funds.

I really don't NEED anything aside from wheels, drivetrain components, and brakes.

[slidey]

Yes. Only one compatibility issues so far as I can tell between 105/Ultegra 6600 with Ultegra 6700. I can't be a 100% sure about 105, but I know for a fact that the rear derailleur of 6700, i.e. part number RD6700-SS has a maximum chain capacity of 33T, which means you can run a compact setup (50/34 cranks) with the wide range cassette (11-28), since 50-34 + 28-11 = 33. A lot of people have found that Shimano's estimates of their components are very conservative, and in fact you can push some of the other derailleurs to using wider cassettes as well, but I wouldn't suggest that first up. My suggestion, decide on double/triple, then if double decide on compact or standard, and then based on this purchase your RD. By the by, if your serach lands you on a 6700 RD, I've got one I can sell.

- So far as Shimano is concerned, so long as I match numbers (i.e. 5700 or 6600, etc.), I assume I am good to go. But, are there compatibility issues moving between 105 and Ultegra? How about moving between 6600 and 6700?

[slidey]

Generally, I agree. But, I've done better a few time now by mixing and matching parts. Also, it helps me work in my preference of 7800 shifters, regardless of the rest of the group (Ultegra/DA mix-match). Moreover, 7800 shifters go for lower prices on the used market than the 6700 ones, and I really prefer the 7800s.

Generally you can get more for your money by buying a whole group than just a piece at a time.

[shovelhd]

You'll also want to watch the pull ratios between the shifter brake levers and the calipers. Shimano says some combos don't work well. YMMV.

[cmg]

here's a Shimano compatilbility chart. http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50lparsys-0025-downloadFile.html/01)%20Drivetrain%20Compatability%20Chart.pdf shows what works with what. a great place to start.

On campy;
all 10 spd models work with each other, veloce will work with record. All 10spd campy wheels will hold an 11spd cassette. there are differrences in what amount of shifts a brifter will throw. some will throw one cog at a time, some 3-4 cogs in either direction. also i like the cleaner look on the bars that lets me run cabling under tape, shimano is doing this also on recent offerings. i bought into campy long ago, like the rebuildability aspect of it. buy it once and buy it for life. most companies will run from this, which means they may never sell you another one but for the most part campy embraces it. finding the part is another story. plenty of youtube videos on how to rebuild doesn't hurt either.

[christian]

Not really sure about the budget. Probably less that $500, just not all at once. I think purchasing a piece here and there is a fun way to get everything together also.With all due respect, this won't save you money - there's usually a discount if you buy a whole group, new or used. You should pull the trigger on that 105 group in the classifieds. It meets all your criteria.

[vqdriver]

we'll all tell you that buying the group together will save money. that's generally true. but let's be honest, the budget is what it is and that's a reality for all of us. the real fun in building this thing up is going to be piecing it together (part by part or in small bundles) and then riding your own frankenstein. some ensembles work better than others and some fine tuning will be required but that's all part of it.

you should have a good idea of what level (105, veloce, centaur, rival - did anyone mention sram?) you're looking for. now go shopping.
enjoy the ride.

[reggiebaseball]

with all due respect, this won't save you money - there's usually a discount if you buy a whole group, new or used.

+1

[Ken Robb]

I could make a better case for buying a piece at a time if the OP was upgrading a bike but I read that he was going to build a frame/fork from scratch so he can't ride it until he has all the parts.

[oldpotatoe]

Your help thus far has been great!

I've been reading the replies while simultaneously researching and browsing classifieds in another. Part of me would like to go ahead and buy a whole group outright. Unfortunately, that part of me is not my wallet.

I'll likely piece things together over the next few months, buying a part or two at a time. Shimano sounds real good, but I'm very intrigued by Campy, partially because of what seems like a cult-like following among users, and also from an article I read about them in a cycling magazine a while back. They seem like a neat company.

A couple more questions:

- So far as Shimano is concerned, so long as I match numbers (i.e. 5700 or 6600, etc.), I assume I am good to go. But, are there compatibility issues moving between 105 and Ultegra? How about moving between 6600 and 6700?

- Similarly, with Campagnolo, if I were to go 10 speed or 11 speed, how do I ensure that everything will work together? Should I just go by group name (i.e. all Centaur)?

I am one to ask many questions, in an effort to find the simplest solution, if that makes sense. Thanks for everyone's patience and assistance.

shimano is very cross compatible, particularly in 10s and 5700/6700/5600/6600. DA, 7900 gets a little more complciated.

Campagnolo also, but just get a group-Centaur, Veloce, Athena(11s), Chorus.

ANY sram is a distant third choice. lacking in reliability IMHO-

[oldpotatoe]

Yes. Only one compatibility issues so far as I can tell between 105/Ultegra 6600 with Ultegra 6700. I can't be a 100% sure about 105, but I know for a fact that the rear derailleur of 6700, i.e. part number RD6700-SS has a maximum chain capacity of 33T, which means you can run a compact setup (50/34 cranks) with the wide range cassette (11-28), since 50-34 + 28-11 = 33. A lot of people have found that Shimano's estimates of their components are very conservative, and in fact you can push some of the other derailleurs to using wider cassettes as well, but I wouldn't suggest that first up. My suggestion, decide on double/triple, then if double decide on compact or standard, and then based on this purchase your RD. By the by, if your serach lands you on a 6700 RD, I've got one I can sell.

All of the 10s shimano rear ders, 5600/5700/6600/6700, work fine with a 11-28 with or w/o a compact. PLUS they are all cross compatible with the 10s shifters..FDers also.

[slidey]

As per Shimano, RD6600's chain capacity is 29T (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/SI_5VG0C_001/SI_5VG0C_001_En_v1_m56577569830616226.pdf), and RD6700's capacity is 33T (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/SI_5X90A_002/SI-5X90A-002-ENG_v1_m56577569830675227.pdf). Whether you can make it or not practically is a different thing, but I'm quoting Shimano's recommendations.

The same difference holds for 5600 vs 5700, with 5600 recommended to take 27T max (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/105/SI_5VN0B_001/SI-5VN0B-001-ENG_v1_m56577569830683908.pdf), and 5700 having a rating of 28T (Document for RD-6700/RD-5700 is the same).

All of the 10s shimano rear ders, 5600/5700/6600/6700, work fine with a 11-28 with or w/o a compact. PLUS they are all cross compatible with the 10s shifters..FDers also.

[oldpotatoe]

As per Shimano, RD6600's chain capacity is 29T (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/SI_5VG0C_001/SI_5VG0C_001_En_v1_m56577569830616226.pdf), and RD6700's capacity is 33T (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/SI_5X90A_002/SI-5X90A-002-ENG_v1_m56577569830675227.pdf). Whether you can make it or not practically is a different thing, but I'm quoting Shimano's recommendations.

The same difference holds for 5600 vs 5700, with 5600 recommended to take 27T max (http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/105/SI_5VN0B_001/SI-5VN0B-001-ENG_v1_m56577569830683908.pdf), and 5700 having a rating of 28T (Document for RD-6700/RD-5700 is the same).

"Only one compatibility issues so far as I can tell between 105/Ultegra 6600 with Ultegra 6700. I can't be a 100% sure about 105, but I know for a fact that the rear derailleur of 6700, i.e. part number RD6700-SS has a maximum chain capacity of 33T, which means you can run a compact setup (50/34 cranks) with the wide range cassette (11-28), since 50-34 + 28-11 = 33."

Fine and dandy, shimano says lots of things that, in practice, aren't true. 12-27 but not a 11-28? really?

shimano's Fders used to rated at 15t max difference..until they started to make a compact and if by magic, there were then rated at 16t difference..amazing.

Ya know, the new 12-30 works with the mentioned rear ders also.

[liray]

I'm a fan of SRAM after riding both ultegra and force. I would recommend SRAM Rival, and they are pretty cheap too, more so if you can score them used.

[killacks]

Not too many weighing in on SRAM here, though. No problem with that, just looking for opinions and experiences so I can consider as much as possible.

I appreciate all the input. I've got some thinking to do on this, and perhaps some shopping as well. Please be prepared in the future for my assistance in cleaning out your parts bins ;)

[shovelhd]

I'd stay away from the Rival shifters. Too many of them have broken. SRAM will send a replacement with no questions asked, but better not to have broken in the first place.