Frame builders resource site?

[inthegutter]

Hey hey,

I was just wondering if there was a website that outlines the process of becoming a certified frame builder. Not that I was thinking about it, but a discussion with a friend of mine got me curious as to what it entails exactly.

Thanks for any help! :bike: :beer:

[KOM]

Check out bikelist.org

There's a framebuilders listserv there with good archives. Might have what you're looking for

Cheers

[Sandy]

I see this is your first post. Welcome to the nuthouse! Hope to read many more posts from you in the future. Does KOM stand for King of the Mountains by any chance?


Sandy

[zank]

Are you thinking of the Reynolds 753 brazing certification? I don't think they do this cert process anymore. Other than that, there is no certification process that I am aware of.

I would suggest purchasing a copy of the Paterek Manual from Henry James for a reference.
http://www.henryjames.com/patman.html

And, as mentioned, the framebuilders list is an excellant resource.

[jdoiv]

also go to UBI and take their frame building course. You get to build your own bike while learning. Not such a bad deal.

[e-RICHIE]

what zanc said.

btw - the framebuilder email list archive is down for
a few days. your friend has to realize that this is not
a craft in the artsy-feely way that other metalsmithing
crafts might be; people use bicycles on the open road,
in traffic, and often approach the takeoff and landing
speeds of small aircraft. if one person makes a frame that
another rides, irrespective of commerce, barter, loan, or
family gift, one'd better be fully covered to accept all
the risks and liabilities that come with it.
e-RICHIE©™®

[zank]

I was thinking of bringing up the liability side of things, but I knew e-Richie would be able to do it more eloquently than me :)

[e-RICHIE]

yeah zanc-issimo.
i cull most of my killer framebuilder list
rants and plant them on my blog:
http://richardsachs.blogspot.com
you'd have to be certified to take any of it
that seriously, but - hey, it's a gig!
e-RICHIE©™®

[zank]

I visit your blog everytime I need a framebuilding "pep-talk".

I also visit http://homepage.mac.com/kellydean/Music/iMovieTheater34.html when I need a huge laugh.

[JeffreyG]

Koichi Yamaguchi offers classes.

http://www.yamaguchibike.com/school/index.htm

[KOM]

Yep, first post. Probably should have intro'd myself. Saw the question about framebuilding and had just come from looking at some stuff on bikelist.org, so I responded.

Forgot for a minute that there are actually highly esteemed framebuilders over here that could respond a lot more authoritatively than me!!

Anyway...

KOM... nope, definitely not King of the Mountains! King of Mercia, which happens to be my latest bike, a custom frame from Mercian of Derby, England. Sort of a lugged steel uber-commuter/ all rounder in the mode of a few bikes I've seen on these pages.

Hadn't thought about the super-climber variation of KOM; I'm about as different from Virenque or Heras as anyone could be! Don't want anyone thinking otherwise, so maybe I should change the moniker!!

Name's Clint Loper, hail from Seattle where for some reason it's been dry all week and I'm even planning to ride my fenderless Bianchi tomorrow instead of my new Mercian.

Great list; been lurking for a short while and really impressed with the dialogue. Ya'll seem to have some fun with it too. :)

Cheers

[Steve Hampsten]

Yo Clint!

Another Seattle boy - welcome aboard. Now that we have the framebuilding portion of the thread taken care, we can commence to hijack it for less relevant purposes...Zank started it, so I guess it's Christopher Walken appreciation time:

http://www.astralwerks.com/fbs/woc/

Happy Friday, all.

[e-RICHIE]

... we can commence to hijack it for less relevant purposes...Zank started it, so I guess it's Christopher Walken appreciation time.



so I guess it's feline appreciation time....
http://www.rathergood.com/independent_woman/

[zank]

Thanks, Steve! Just can't get enough on Walken.

How's that sweet new cross bike?

[Steve Hampsten]

richie - you wanna talk about rathergood.com we gotta talk about gaybar...
http://www.campchaos.com/show.php?iID=648

zank - andy loves the bike. he placed "top 15" in his first cross race two weeks ago on a mountain bike (wearing a t-shirt) and expects to do better next time on his tangerine dreambike.

[inthegutter]

I kinda tried to dance around it in my original question but I'm wondering what it takes to be legally recognized as a 'bike manufacturer'. Is there a certain number of frames one must have produced and sold? Maybe just make one frame and start a LLC?
I'm wondering more specifically because an guy on a race team local to me is now considered one and he was going on about how he got everything (components etc.) for dirt cheap through some supply company which is only for manufacturers. :cool:

[e-RICHIE]

I kinda tried to dance around it in my original question but I'm wondering what it takes to be legally recognized as a 'bike manufacturer'. Is there a certain number of frames one must have produced and sold?
no.


Maybe just make one frame and start a LLC?
yes.


I'm wondering more specifically because an guy on a race team local to me is now considered one and he was going on about how he got everything (components etc.) for dirt cheap through some supply company which is only for manufacturers. :cool:
that's mad painful.

[Ozz]

...Name's Clint Loper, hail from Seattle where for some reason it's been dry all week and I'm even planning to ride my fenderless Bianchi tomorrow instead of my new Mercian....
Welcome to the nut-house!

Crazy (good) weather we've been having here in Seattle, huh?

I should be passing by the Leschi Starbucks around 7:00 tomorrow morning....say "Hi" if you see some dork on a blue & white CSI!

[inthegutter]

that's mad painful.

RICHIE-

It is pretty sad. I hope he actually gets into the building of the bikes more than just getting a few things for cheap. :rolleyes: From what I know of him he is pretty sharp and apt so he may actually be able to create a pretty sweet ride...eventually.

Won't he have to provide a serial number or something with his parts order or does he just have free reign? I hope there is a fail-safe like that in place so he can't undermine the local LBS and such.

[Steve Hampsten]

Mr. Gutter,

It depends on the company doing the selling: some of my suppliers require proof of liability insurance, a copy of my business license, a photograph of my shop, and a couple of references. Other suppliers simply want to know that there is a breathing entity on the other end of the phone line and they'll sell without asking too many questions.

The risk your pal runs is that once word gets out that he's simply reselling products that are only supposed to be sold as part of a whole bike package (if that is what he is doing), then he may jeapordize his future relationships with suppliers - if word gets out. In the long run it just ain't worth it.

[e-RICHIE]

i echo steve-issimo...

and add that, with help from the internet, interest in "being"
a framebuilder and trying it out in one way/shape/form has
become quite commonplace. many folks have this attitude
about it that it can be done on the fourth try, or as a part time
gig, or that anyone can do it after taking a class and/or reading
about it in a book. imo, this waters down all the work done by
folks who have fully committed themselves to the task.
e-RICHIE©™®

[Birddog]

What we really need is something akin to HGTV, maybe "Framebuilder TV" so everybody and his uncle can get into the act. It's done wonders (HGTV) for my business, both ways. I can see it now, a shot of Richie- issimo welding up a bottom bracket, cut to commercial, come back and the whole damn thing is done. Next shot is Richie and his dog admiring the work. It's PFM!

Some things are best left to professionals,

Birddog

[e-RICHIE]

yeah what gandino said.