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Climb01742
03-01-2004, 08:26 AM
six months ago, my everyday ride was a litespeed ghisallo with speedplays. then mid-summer i got my ottrott, on which i put lance pedals. a few months later, i started having legs pains the like of which i'd never had. i've ridden and run now for over 35 years (started running everyday as a freshman in high school) and i thought i'd had every sports injury possible (not to mention the broken bones from skiiing and high school football.) but lo and behold a few months ago i started having IT band issues for the first time in my life.

injuries are complicated things; their causes not easily discerned. but in this case, i thought it was pretty clear. going from a ghisallo to an ottrott is going from one of the whippiest frames made to one of the stiffest frames made. i thought that was the primary culprit.

late in the fall i had a CIII built as a winter ride. i wanted the perfect dialed in fit i had on my ottrott, but something with more flex. and kelly nailed it. being a winter ride, i hung ultegra on it instead of DA, including ultegra SPD pedals. with the added flex of the frame, my IT issues lessened. but i also noticed something else: the ultegra pedals had a lot more fluid float that the DA lance pedals on my ottrott. and the added float seemed to help as well. i did some checking. DA and ultegra SPD pedals have the exact same mechanical bits, just some different materials. their float should be identical. but none of my other DA SPD pedals had anywhere near the freer float of these odd ultegras.

as i rode my other frames, all with DA SPDs, i started to notice that it was the pedals that were giving me more trouble than anything.

so this weekend i did an experiment. i put a pair of speedplays on one of my frames. HOLY COW. that was it (or at least a lot of it.) i have a funky right leg/hip/back. my body just needs that much float and that free-of-float. so here's what i think i learned:

1. be careful what you change. and maybe even more importantly, be careful how much you change. i changed frames and pedals. when stuff started to hurt, i couldn't isolate what the new variable was. there were too many new variables.

2. when you do change something, change it gradually. when i got my ottrott, i rode it like a madman. every ride. i went longer, i went harder. clearly i overdid it.

3. understand that we are biomechanical snowflakes. each of us have all these little body quirks. my left leg/hip has never given me trouble, not on any frame, not with any pedals. but lordy, my right leg/hip. lance pedals have good float; good enough for most folks. but not enough for my right leg. i need what the speedplays give me.

4. equipment has quirks too. this odd pair of ultegra pedals behaves like no SPD pedals is supposed to. i've tried many other DA and ultegra SPDs (thanks a million to my LBS) and no other pair floats like this one pair. thank heavens it did. because it was my clue to look at the pedals, not just the frames.

i've learned a lesson. be careful how you change things. do it slowly, do it in small moves, and be able to isolate what it is you're changing. if this little tale helps someone avoid my experience over the past six months, that would be nice. because being hurt sucks.

theoldman
03-01-2004, 09:03 AM
I had lots of knee pain last year until I installed a pair of Speedplays. After which, the pain was gone completely. At least for me they made all the difference.

I am glad to hear you isolated the problem. It took me a couple of years to find a solution.

dirtdigger88
03-01-2004, 09:13 AM
Speedplay's are the only way to go in my book. I used MTB pedals when I first started riding road, I thought my knees were shot. Switched to Speedplays, now they (my knees) seem to be fixed.:banana:

Bruce K
03-01-2004, 09:15 AM
For a different perspective, I used to ride Speedplays because of a bad knee from long ago.

I am not an expert or pro in either riding or fit, but I did go through a pro fit with Bill Petersen at Foot Fitness in Middletown, RI. It was an eye-opening experience/

When I had a pro fit done it was suggested that I give up my Speedplays in favor of Looks or another pedal that could be fit with 0 float.

At first I was skeptical, but iIfigured if I was paying that much money and spending that much time I should listen to the fitter.

I ended up with orhtotics in my shoes to correct a pronation problem and a thorough fitting which included foot angle and cleat off-set.

A full season later, I am a believer. I have ridden several centuries pain free with 0 float. I am using LOOK pedals with the black cleats. I can always tell when something is out of whack (cleat wear or once a cleat shift) because things don't feel right and there is discomfort.

I found that I had more pedaling power and greater comfort than when I had ridden the Speedplays.

Speedplays are great pedals but the X series seems to be used in lieu of solving other biomechanical problems. Maybe Zeros would have accomplished the same thing, but at the time I chose the LOOKs.

Just another thought.

BK

weisan
03-01-2004, 09:28 AM
Thanks for sharing, Climb.

Climb01742
03-01-2004, 09:28 AM
bruce,

this goes back to my biomechanical snowflake thing. you found something that really solved your problem, which is great.

speedplays aren't perfect. i switched from them for two reasons: i got hotspots right over the lollypop and i found the smaller contact area didn't transfer enough power.

over the past six months, i also got fitted with cycling footbeds from gordon hay. they are great and they help address some of my alignment issues. but not all.

i don't believe that speedplays are, for me, a panacea. i'm in the midst of physical therapy to loosen a bunch of tight muscles, and then strengthen those muscles. my "solution" will be a combination of things. but what i believe is true of the speedplays is this: at this point in my rehab, restrictive float is making things worse. free float is neutral. then as i stretch and strengthen, and my alignment gets better, my leg will naturally position itself better, and i won't be using as much of the float as the speedplays are giving me. but for now, they are giving me a cushion, a margin of error my funky leg/hip need to get me healthy. i think my snowflake needs the float now. its great that your snowflake has found its sweet spot.

climb.

Bruce K
03-01-2004, 09:41 AM
Climb;

I'm glad that things are working out for you. I was just offering my esperience on the Speedplays.

I really liked using them (except fot the hotspots on century rides) and my teenage son still uses them (got to protect those young knees).

I hope everyhting ends up in good shape.

See you at Open House.

BK

Climb01742
03-01-2004, 09:44 AM
bruce, i hope by open house we'll both in such good shape we can ride each other silly. :p

Matt Barkley
03-01-2004, 09:49 AM
Climb Saab - I hear you,
I was going to post something simlar last week about pedals and changes.
I have always tried to evaluate different equipment by simply trying it out - from framesets to shoes. I find that changes are difficult to make most of the time and that I tend to like simply what I am used to. I feel though, equipment like pedals and shoes and cranks / saddle position - that involve the pedal stroke are the most important to have set up and remain fairly constant. Think of how many pedals revolutions you make in even one short ride!
Cut to the chase: I had been trying out customized shoes as well as the new D/A pedals - never quite satisfied - with a little know pain - I just went back to a pair of Looks with my old (havn't even worn them in over 3 years Corvaros with Black cleats) - and voala - I feel good again...
Too much float (and rotation or flaot) - not eneough float (really locked in witht hte DA fixed cleat) - and too stiff a shoe don't work for me. Why? Maybe because I started ridiing with toe-straps locking my feat in fixed and then went to fixed (Look Black cleats - a little play) and never found anything better - always going back to the same. I really was able to consistently keep my shoe/pedal set-up the same and have my position on the bike gradually evolve over time. No drastic changes - no REAL change of equipment other that STI and Ergo and settling in on my favorite saddles or handlebar width and drop....

Ahneida Ride
03-01-2004, 10:18 AM
For me, seat hight is the critical adjustment. too high or
low and my knees kill me.

The Speed Play Frogs are working out fine.

zap
03-01-2004, 10:20 AM
Custom orthotics are often overlooked. For those very few with perfect feet, custom orthotics will give you much better support over your entire foot.

Many will need corrective orthotics that will correct alignment problems from the foot all the way up to the lower back. These orthotics will take some getting used to as your foot will need to adjust to custom orthotics. If you can wait, it's best to do this during the winter months when rides are shorter and easier.

It's amazing how minor details such as shoe stiffness and minute float changes can make a difference. Even a different saddle can have an effect.

Kevan
03-01-2004, 11:00 AM
I use Bebops which function basically the same as Speedplays (Only better, I think.). I'd be incline to stay with the pedal that works rather than try different systems that function so differently. Heck, if only to save a small fortune on shoes.

Speaking of shoes, they too can play some havoc, so I'd stick close to what works for you.

shazer
03-01-2004, 12:35 PM
This is why this forum is so great. Information is knowledge and when others have similar fit or injury issues the forum can help all of us.

Case in point, I'm in a pair of orthotics that correct my pronation while riding, but they forgot to raise the metarsal arch like my first pair and now the "hotfoot" tends to come back now on longer rides. I've also had trouble with different shoes over the years because the lasts that are used from one company to the next are different. For me, Carnacs have fit the best over the last ten years or so.

All this information is so helpful now. I can't imagine going back trying to get this many ideas from club rides and other riders in my area.

shazer

Kevin
03-01-2004, 06:41 PM
I love my Speedplays. They are a great set of pedals.

I had IT band issues several years ago when I changed from a Bianchi to a Litespeed. My IT band issues are caused by saddle position. I second the statement that when you change anything do it very gradually. Big changes typically result in big problems.

Kevin

Ken Lehner
03-02-2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Climb01742
... and i found the smaller contact area didn't transfer enough power.

Just curious: exactly where did the power go, if not through the pedal? :confused:

Climb01742
03-02-2004, 09:12 AM
ken, the answer may be part perception and part reality. in my experience, pedals with wider contact areas "feel" more solid, feel as though the downward thrust of my leg is more solidly transferred to the pedal. less rocking of the shoe side to side. footbeds also enhance this feeling. i've felt the same thing with running shoes. narrower shoes tend to roll sideways more. wider shoes make my foot feel more supported, and my motion feels more forward, rather than side to side.

i have nothing scientific behind this, just my sensations while riding. if you look at the speedplay website, they spend a far amount of effort talking about their "contact area", so my guess is this issue comes up for them.

but i guess the good news for me is, since i don't generate that much power to begin with, i'm ok. :p